BS: abortion south dakota

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 09:36 AM

According to one US anti-abortion site, there are an estimated 1.4m abortions per year in the United States. Do you think the 'lots of families' you refer to stretches that far, MaineDog?

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: MaineDog
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 09:10 AM

"No one cares after the baby is born"? Wrong! There are lots of families out there ready to adopt unwanted babies. Many will even pay the medical and prenatal expenses of the mother. I know this for a fact, because a close relative of mine went thru this experience. She is now married with a newborn, and is very glad she did not have an abortion when she was tempted to do so, a few years ago.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Alba
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 09:07 AM

Thanks Bobert.
I am prepared to do so if that is the case.
I used to get very upset when the issue arose but over the Years I decided that the best way to deal with my opinion on the issue was to quite simply walk the walk and talk the talk.
Arguement is futile when one is argueing with Fundamentalist thinking.
If any women chooses not have an abortion I support her right to that choice
If any woman chooses to have an abortion I support her right to have that choice available to her.
If a woman chooses not to use contraception I support her right not to do so.
If a woman chooses to use contaception I support her right to obtain and use the mtheod she chooses.
This issue goes way beyond the views of Religion and Ethics in my opinion.
Again I will say my views on the matter are really that simple but getting to the point were my views became defined was a tough road.
Sometimes it is easy to lose the big picture when people choose only to focus on a few pixels contained within it.
I am not of a mind to argue my position on this anymore. I have done that many times over the years and that fact has been a motovating factor in how I arrived at where I stand on this issue today
I respect others views even while disagreeing with some.
I reject shock language tactics as it serve no purpose. It is a hysteria of sorts and only indicates to me that some people nurture a rage at their inabilty to control all Womans Right to Freedom of choice.
So in my last post here on the subject I will just say that backwards is not a direction I am willing go on regarding this matter.
Everyone has an personal opinion and right to make their own choices.
Women are not excluded in that right.
Again it is really that simple in my opinion.
I have, I feel, no need for preparation. As I have, as some here know, been actively defending Pro Choice for many years now through my work outside my Music. I am grateful to that work that allowed me to gain a broader perspective on this subject.
On this issue I am and will continue to be very determined.
That is how it is for me.
Best of Wishes, as always, to all here
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:23 AM

Alba,

While I respect your conviction and courage, be prepared for having to fight this battle in a post-Roe era... They have the votes now and now it's just figuring out whether or not to do it gradually or quickly. That's a marketing/political issue for the radical Republicans...

But, make no bones about it, Alito tipped the scale and it won't matter how pro-active you are now but how pro-active you will be after abortion is made illegal again...

But the battle will be alot harder next time because the right wing is so well organized (and financed) that it won't be like the last time... And the press is owned by the right wing, too...

Yeah, when that battle comes, I'll be beside you but know that it's going to take more than indignation to turn the country around since the Democrats have no political (or finacial) backbone to be a real opposition party...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: GUEST,donuel
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:16 AM

As South Dakota goes so goes the nation over the right to abort
here comes the Supreme Court.

Out on the western plains and bad lands rides a HERO
To the rescue rides Judge Alito.


Pretty much any medical care involves "killing something".
Its time we clean house and put an end to all medical science
and its wanton killing
except for criminals, Muslims and evil doers etc.

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:12 AM

After the 2004 election I remember a fundamentalist Christian leader stating that, as 'they' had put Bush back in the White House, he must do what they wanted him to. Right now these people seem to have the power because they are able to organise their followers into going to the ballot box and there isn't sufficient cohesive agreement amongst the mostly moderate majority of the population to make a real opposition. As a result laws like this can get on to the statute books.

As Kendall has said, the concern of these people lasts until the baby is born. After that they will take no responsibility for bringing into the world an unwanted life and it is likely that those children will be more poorly provided for due to lack of money or love or both. That is of no interest to the anti-abortionists who, if they think of it at all, will blame the mother for not taking care of the child.

Maybe these people should have to put their money where their mouth is and contribut say 50% of their income to help raise the children they have effectively brought into the world.

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Alba
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:08 AM

...and the men involved in this "careless" act? What freedom do they lose Martin?

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 07:58 AM

So Alba, a woman has the right to choose to be a baby killer because she screwed around one too many times and got careless, right?

That's not a right, Alba. That's not being responsible for your actions and mistakes. It's an easy way out at the expense of a life.

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Alba
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 07:53 AM

Nope Bobert. No saving account. For that would be accepting the unacceptable in my opinion.
I'll do as have done for a long time on this issue and become even more pro active than I already am.
Again for me it is that simple. Really.
I am as determined on the issue of a Woman's right to choose as the people who would try to strip a Woman of that right.
J

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 06:52 AM

Alba,

Better start your savings account now so that when yer only "choice" is to get on an airplane and go to another country where you can exercise that "choice" that you think you'll have here in the US after Roe goes down...

Johnin K,

That's what I was saying. My statement about Nazi Germany was in quotation marks talking about the folks who are in denial that Roe is going down... I know the US is on a path taken by the Germans in the 30's and that's why I know that Roe is going down and guarentee it... It was a done deal when the Bush crowd, whoes family BTW had lots of ties to the Nazis, used the Cristain Right and a bunch of lawyers to highjack and Amercian eletion... That was the beginning of the end of the US as we know it...

Roe is going down... Fir sure...

And guess what... Democracy has allready gone down...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 05:29 AM

Abortion on demand has always been wrong. Abortion for medical reasons or for pregnancies resulting from a criminal act, should be allowed.
Just imagine being raped by a stranger or a relation and ending up pregnant because of it. Without the option of an abortion you would have to live for another 9 months with this reminder of your violator inside you.
No one can live by the rules in the Bible, and most of the christian fundies know that, but then they only want to live by the bits that suit them and ignore the bits they don't like.
Pick & MIx religion I call it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:36 PM

Bobert: I mean this is America... Not friggin' Nazi Germany.

That is what a lot of people are saying, but when I list recent events here alongside the pages of the history books, this IS NAZI GERMANY, ca. 1932. The US could very well proceed along a very similar path.

Does anyone believe we don't have a few politicians every bit as ambitious as Adolph and his gang?

The majority of Germans were basically ok people, but "conservative religion" was used to break down resistance and impose a "state religion." Denial of civil rights to certain people was used to break down resistance. Appointments of "sympathetic judges" with "the right thinking" was used to emasculate the courts. Secret trials were used to eliminate "undesirables." Withdrawal, cancellation, and denial of social welfare benefits were used to eliminate objectors. Taxes favoring "the right businesses" were used to weaken other "less wanted" segments of the economy. "Emergency powers" were claimed by the politician(s) in power. Drastically increased penalties for broad ranges of crimes were imposed, in the name of "moral values" to provide a threat against objections. The work camps (prisons) were filled with "undesirables," often just to get them off the unemployment lists and make people believe things were ok.

And all the people just sat there, at each step of the process, because "it can't happen here."

Anybody see anything that doesn't show up in both lists?

John

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Alba
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:14 PM

I am not too sure about that either Anonny.
I will not give them power by addressing their point of View.
For the simple reason I feel that I know better then they ever will about this issue for I am a woman and I have a choice and no-one elses moral standards or religious views or Court, no matter how Supreme, will ever be able to take MY choice away from me.
To me it is that simple. Really.
J

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:37 PM

It's a vocal, self-righteous, "I know better than you" minority that has hijacked more than a few things of late. Pretty soon you'll have Pat Robertson out in S.D. running prayer-a-thons to get more money for himself and using a pittance of it to charter a dozen buses to D.C. with placards and "murder for hire" signs. Used to be said "let one of THEM have their daughter raped or knocked up by Uncle Joe, and they'd change their tune." Y'know what? I'm not at all sure they would!

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:23 PM

And it ain't even "majority rule"... It's minority rule...

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:15 PM

Well said, BillD! Thank you!

Bobert, dammit (:-), your words have power. By making such "guarantees" you are putting that "out there" into the power of the consciousness to help bring it about; quit helping them out with all of their negativity, please?!! Yes, it is a possibility, but it does not have to be fact, esp. if we, the majority, do not give it the power of our words and beliefs.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM

Thanks, Bill D.

"They will never get it thru their heads that some issues should not BE at the whim of whoever has the most votes, but be forever a matter of personal conscience."

Absolutely right! Why should majority rule apply to personal decisions?

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:30 PM

The real fight won't happen until after Roe v. Wade is overturned and the reality sets in that the Christain Right, which it is neither, has highjacked the governemnt...

Yeah, then the tables will turn drasticaly and the orgabnizing that the anti-abortion folks have been doing won't be able to stand up to the majority, who when awakened, can bea force...

Right now everyone is sayin', "Hey, Roe won't be overturned... I mean this is America... Not friggin' Nazi Germany..."

Wanta bet???

Roe is going down!!! Guarenteed... Maybe not this year, but within 3 years it will be back to rich white women going on that "little vacation" to Mexico and poor black (and white) women getting the clothes hanger abortion in the back rooms of gas stations...

I **guarentee** this is going happen... This Supreme Court has been assembles by Bush to do just this as a reward to his scrwed up Chriatain Right base who couldn't care less if Boss Hog is hosin' them as long as Roe goes down....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:28 PM

You know the answer to that, Martin....they 'think' they know an overriding issue. You & I may disagree with 'them', but zealousness allows a LOT of folks to stomp on other's rights in the name of righteousness.

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:19 PM

Banning abortion for rape and incest is just plain stupid.

Banning abortion because a woman and a man were careless and don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions is something else.

Why can't people see the common sense to the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:31 PM

boycott S. Dakota? You mean don't go to Mt. Rushmore and stop digging for gold? What else can we DO to them? Maybe that's why they were chosen...

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:29 PM

S. Dakota, as well as being conservative, has agreed to be the test case to see if they can slip this measure by the Supreme Court...that is, to test whether those two "I haven't made up my mind" new members are "on board" and whether "settled law" really means anything.

They will never get it thru their heads that some issues should not BE at the whim of whoever has the most votes, but be forever a matter of personal conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: abortion south dakota
From: curmudgeon
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:24 PM

For a start, boycott South Dakota.

Subject: BS: abortion south dakota
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:13 PM

I see South dakota is to forbid all abortions, including those desired by women who have been raped or are the victims of incest. Is this not as draconian and backward as anything the taliban came up with? Is the position of women in this place any different to that of women in the worst examples of patriarchal society? And where is compassion for the poor women who are the victims of male crimes?
Will the women of America fight to retain their freedoms or will they go back to subservience?