BS: Censure Bush!!!!

Subject: BS: CENSURE BUSH!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:24 AM

US Senator Russ Feingold plans to introduce a censure resolution today, condemning Bush for breaking the 1978 law requiring judicial oversight of government surveillance in the US, and intentionally misleading the public about it.

Now is the time to contact your representatives, to get the momentum moving folks!

Unless, of course, you are one of the 3 people in the US who believe "our commander in chief" is doing a bang up job.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:09 AM

'"The president has broken the law and, in some way, he must be held accountable," Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., told The Associated Press in an interview.'

Better than nothing I s'pose. But if he did break the law then he should be prosecuted, not censured. I think that if a poor person did something equally bad (on a lesser scale of course) that he/she would be facing some time. Not so those who are above the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:16 AM

From the same article

...mpeachment is the only punishment outlined in the Constitution for a president. But the Constitution says the House and Senate can punish their own members through censure.
...

I say impeach the bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:30 AM

Actually, the president wouldn't be prosecuted as a criminal in this regard. There are only 3 options available to the Congress: censure, impeachment, and doing nothing.

The Republicans won't allow impeachment. There is a growing consensus among grassroots Democrats (though not their leadership surprise, surprise) that something must be done, and our political leaders must take a stand whether they will be successful or not.

It is actually a very savvy political move. A vote up or down on the censure resolution, if forced upon the Senate, would make for a dicy, hyper-charged political season.

Let's face it, the dumb ass, do nothing American voters are now having their faces rubbed in the mess they let happen. The corruption, graft, and criminal law breaking of the Big Business Party keeps getting worse and worse and worse. Feingold is way out ahead of his contemporaries, and is standing up against the corruption all alone on the right side of the fence. I don't expect his political peers to do anything but cower under their desks on the Senate floor until after the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM

For the record, an impeachment of a sitting official of the executive branch requires a simple majority vote in the House of Representatives in order to pass up to the Senate for trial.

The problem is, the impeachment document has first to be drawn up. That is the greater stumbling block to impeachment with this Congress.

Hence Feingold's censure resolution. Feingold doesn't need the support of the Democratic leadership (which he likely wouldn't get, unless the polls show overwhelming support for it among Dem and The Big Business Party voters) to get the resolution discussed in the court of public opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:03 PM

Well, well, well...

This oughta at least be interesting because it comes at a time when the Copngressional Repubs are trying to de-Bush themselves for this November's election... Good political move on the Dems part and also good that it Fiengold in the Senate and Conyers in the House doing it...

But if the Dems aren't prepared to issue their version of a "Contract with America" right afterwards, this will backfire on them as the Repubs will agin portray the Dems as just angry folks who have nothing, other than criticsm, to offer..

But oughta be interestin', non the less...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:11 PM

Good points, GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:38 PM

Those who believe in grassroots having an effect may show their support by joining Feingold and his call for censure. It's a start, at least.

The articles of impeachment have already been drawn up by Ramsey Clark and may be read at www.impeachbush.com. We just need someone with savvy and and backbone to line it up in Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 02:33 PM

There is one reason, and one reason only why we are hearing about this now: the disastrous drop in popularity the media can no longer ignore, without risking losing their FCC licenses, etc.

The mainstream media censored the story of a similar resolution, introduced by Representative Conyers of Michigan, has been languishing in the House since December, along with his companion bill calling for a select committee to investigate possible impeachable crimes.

But hey--I'll take getting this story into public view any way we can do it. As it is, there is very little reporting of this story, despite Feingold's high profile announcement yesterday on ABC's This Week Sunday morning show.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:11 PM

Naughty! George, don't do that!

(that sort of thing....?)

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:22 PM

...We just need someone with savvy and and backbone to line it up in Congress....

Savvy AND Backbone IN CONGRESS?

You're asking a bit much ther katmeluv

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM

Yes, that sort of thing. Only it carries much more political punch than you are suggesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:38 PM

once again today, Bush said "Nook-you-ler"....censure is too good for him!

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:50 PM

He's more to be im-peached than censured....dedummdadeeedum....


A

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Kaleea
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:50 PM

censure? doh! I can think of a few better things to do with him. What about handing him over the mothers & wives of the men-of whatever nations--who are dead due to his war(not mine!!).

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:14 PM

Bertdarlin'...I'd like to see Barack Obama get a LOT more national press and support. I think he could galvanise folks. Come November, with a Democratic majority, we'll see the little shrub twist and turn by the rope he has hung himself with.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:15 PM

I loved that Amos. Would be a great parody, after all we put 'em there in there place.

Censure is only a small step towards what should be. Impeachment is only a slightly larger step closer to where he should be. He should spend the rest of his life in a prison located in the mid east where those countries, effected be his illegal aggression, can keep him under a careful (or not so careful) eye to be guarded by UN peace keepers as the war criminal he is & his allied cab-nits can again keep him in good company & not to be heard from until their demise. And then, when they're at their final end let them be crucified with the media to report & do their final photo op's before they're cremated & their remains cast upon those desert sands.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:17 PM

Don't care for him, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM

I care more for a rabid dead dog's carcass lying in a contaminated land fill & would give it far more respect than I would for the bunch of them. Dead or Alive.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:29 PM

I share your sentiment but lack your way with words. Don't hold back.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:30 PM

I think he should be made stateless and left to spend the rest of his life in the transit lounge of Baghdad International Airport.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:14 PM

Bush wants absolute power because he and his handlers are absolutely corrupt.

Calls for censure are only midway points in ongoing efforts to save America from mostly non-thinking Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:27 PM

I dunno, he's a bit like Thatcher was in England - in all honesty you can't really say he has misled anybody. Surely you expected some situation not a million miles away from here.

Nothing Maggie did ever surprised me. Didn't like much of what she did, but she did pretty much as expected - and for a long time, a lot of people voted for her.

Don't blame George, blame his fans - they gave him the keys to the toy cupboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:10 PM

...blame his fans - they gave him the keys to the toy cupboard...

Nah! the voting machines did that. You don't really think that any Americans actually voted for him do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:13 PM

FULL CIRCLE

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:15 PM

Actually, without the Supremes he never would have been an incumbent.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:18 PM

He may have been appointed President; he may have been elected President. Fact remains, he just ain't a President.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:03 AM

Stop using sophistry. You live in a democracy as someone once said - not perfect but probably as good as it gets.

Obviously not enough of you were out there mentioning the fact that he talks weird and has a mad glint in his eye - prior to people voting. Otherwise not so many people would have voted for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:27 AM

Well, when ya got Diebold connections, it don't really matter what ANYone says or how anyone votes, now does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: leftydee
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:42 AM

What would censure do? He doesn't give a rat's ass for the power of congress now. Calling him a bad boy means nothing, although i sure would like to see the pussies in congress rattle some sabres. But no,the gutless wonders are trying to stay out of the spotlight. Hey, this is an election year and they wouldn't want their actions misconstrued. Far more could be accomplished by Senators and Representitives calling the Prez out EVERY TIME his actions aren't it the best interest of the majority of Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST,tgd13
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:04 PM

If the gutless democrats WE elected don't have the balls to stand up with Feingold, perhaps we the people should demand a referendum, and we should be able to vote on whether this lying sack should be censured. By all rights he shoud be impeached. Clinton lied about a blow job, it didn't get thousands of people killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:52 AM

politics 101

some people are born rich
some are born with a great burning desire to be rich

some people from these subgroups become politicians, basically to further those aims of being richer still.
from these, a smaller group still emerges - people who want the top job, and can influence enough people to run for the top job

If enough people vote for this rich, driven, very single minded person - they get the top job
George Bush got the top job
the rest of us have to live with it

only if we are politically active ourself, have we the right to bitch about the system, as it is open to us all to get involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 07:11 AM

tgdl3; were there not fatalities in the first World Trade Center bombing, the USS Cole, the barracks in Saudi, the fiasco in ..remember where they were dragging dead US soldiers behind a pickup, the two US Embassies bombings? Maybe Waco could be added to this list.

But yes, BJs do keep one's thoughts away from most everything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:36 AM

Upon second thoughts, Bush is just what the Dems have needed for a long time... Problem is that Dems ain't the Dems... They have become the BushLites...

The '06 and '08 elections are theirs to loose and they are doing a fine job loosing '06 with their rope-a-dope strategy... Going take more than a strong defense to win future elections which is going to mean having the courage and desire to lead... The Dems don't seem to want to lead right now... Haven't for a long time now...Ahhhh, not that I blame them all that much 'cause whoever wins is also taking ownership of a country which has been severely damaged by the Bush neocons...

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 11:52 AM

Severely damaged????

Sales of houses setting records, home ownership at an all time high based on 'per capita', record low unemployment, college grads facing best job opportunities in years, very low inflation rate, etc.

Of course there are the low points that appear on a cyclical basis as observed over the past forty years.

What major setback has occurred to you over the last 5 years? Are you not the guy that moved and bought a farm and a bunch of buildings?
Explain to me how you consider yourself "severely damaged".

After all, to be exact and honest, we should only consider our individual life situations.

OR........are you to be listed under the following heading as describe by Websters' dictionary as 75% of the others in Mudcat BS seem to be?

malcontent: a discontented person: a : one who bears a grudge from a sense of grievance or thwarted ambition b : one who is in active opposition to an established order or government.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 12:40 PM

Severely damaged????

Yes, Severely damaged!!!
I just watched in the news 2 nights ago that claims the market housing looks to be falling. Those poor soldiers & poor folks that just bought homes, wait till they find out that they're struggling to pay a morgage that twice what their property's worth & their rich counterparts are gonna gobble it up for pennies!
Over 2000 Americans & ???,??? others dead in a falsified war over world democratic control & oil!
Over 3 Billion in debt & climbing! Our grandchildren will be paying through the nose & China will be taxing us to death!!
The increase are in jobs that are worth less & give fewer benifits!!!
Yes, you're right You should only think of yourself!!!!!
THE REST OF US WILL THINK ABOUT THOSE OTHERS!!!!!!

Malcontent: A, when one won't roll over & play dead. B, an employee or a political spokesperson that uncovers an injustice & stands up to expose it.

Blind: A, when one cannot or refuses to see what's plainly in sight. B, when one refuses to opentheir eyes for fear of seeing. C, one who needs an aid to be lead.   

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST,G
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:10 PM

Nice try but no cigar - you certainly qualify for the Webster definition, Barry, and the housing market is not falling. Try getting some of your "news" from trade publications.

My opinion is that no one should "watch" any news. I realize that makes you 'feel' the way you do.
And, it had nothing to do with "thinking about others", just where all as individuals fit into the mix. I am willing to bet that my societal contributions exceed yours, not saying that it does, just willing to bet.

I didn't like Viet Nam and it had NO reasons - 54,000 dead?

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Brass Monkey
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 01:55 PM

What we should do is record footage of Bush making an address and dub over what he says with some facts of recent history. We should then get it shown in every pub in the country at the same time. Despite knowing that it is impossible to fool everyone at the same time, judging by the success rate of Bush, we could have a damn fine go.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM

Dear GUEST:

The latest Hanley Wood Market Intelligence:

The Economy                    

INDICATOR                               STAT         GRADE

Real GDP                              1.6%         D+
>Leading Economic Indicators             139.0         C+
        -6 Month Change               1.5%         A
        -Number of indicators up         8         B+
>Inflation                              3.6%         B-
        -Consumer Price Index               3.6%         C
        -Core CPI                       2.1%         A-
        -Employment Cost Index               3.1%         C+
        -Implicit Price Deflator      3.3%         C+
>Mortgage Rates                       6.32%         A+
        -Freddie Mac                       6.32%         A+
        -HSH.com                       6.53%         A+
Consumer Confidence                     101.7         C
Housing Market Index                       55         B-
Personal Income Growth Rate                5.8%         C+

Existing Home Market                  

INDICATOR                                     STAT         GRADE
> Existing Home Prices                         
        -Median                           $210,500         A+
        -Appreciation Rate, Real          13.1%               A+
>Existing Home Sales Volume                 5,770,000         B-
        -1 year % change                 (4.8%)                D+
        -% of Households                 5.4%                A+
Months of Inventory                        5.2                B
>Purchase Mortgage Applications         393.6                D+
        -% Change over last year         (11.83%)         D+
> Affordability Ratio                           44.5%         D-
        -fixed mortgage rates                  44.5%         
        -adjustable mortgage rates          48.1%         

New Home Market                  

INDICATOR                                     STAT         GRADE

> New Home Prices                           $238,100         B-
        -Median                           $238,100         B-
        -Nominal                           6.3%         B-
> New Home Sales Volume                 1,233,000         B+
        -1 year % change                     3.3%         C+
        -% of Households                     1.16%         A+
> Months of New Home Inventory                     5.2         B+
        -Completed                              1.1         A
        -Under Construction                     3.0         B-
        -Speculative (Compl. + U/C)             4.2         A-
        -Not Started                              1.0         C-
> Affordability Ratio                              37.8%         D
        -fixed ratio                             37.8%         D
        -adjustable ratio                     41.9%         D

Housing Supply                  

INDICATOR                                     STAT         GRADE

> Total Building Permits                 2,145,000         B
        > -Single-Family Permits         1,639,000         B+
        -Multifamily (5+) Permits         417,000         C+
> Total Housing Starts                        2,120,000         B-
        -Single-Family                        1,800,000         B
        -Multifamily (5+)                 275,000         D-
> Manufactured Housing Placements         115,000         D-
        -% of Households                 0.11%            F
        -1 year % change                 (7.3%)                D+
Housing Growth Ratio                        7.4            A+
> Housing Vacancies                        2.0%            F
        -Rental Units                        9.6%            F
        -Homeowner Units                 1.8%                F

Given the figures herein, and especially the vacancies vs. the affordability ration vs. the real GDP vs. the CPI vs. the unemployment trends --

no, I wouldn't put my money in real estate just now.

And yes, I DO follow trade analyses (not just the publications, but analyses used by investors).

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 06:06 PM

Oh, and by the way, figures from the Bureau of the Public Debt show the US to debt to be US $8,363,536,754,922.14, as of March 23, 2006.

That's eight TRILLION, three hundred and sixy three BILLION, five hundred and thirty-six MILLION, seven hundred and fifty four THOUSAND, nine hundred and twenty two dollars and fourteen cents, or approximately US $30,000 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.

See here for the size of the Public Debt back to 1987.

When Thomas Paine wrote "No nation should be without a debt!" I don't think he had this in mind....

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 07:29 PM

Guest.
Open your eyes.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 08:26 PM

Barry, your take..........

Rapaire, does that mean rent as opposed to buying.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:03 PM

No, it means that I wouldn't buy property with the intent of reselling it at a profit -- as 26% of the houses built here in the last year were bought (by those from outside the area, primarily California and the Northeast). While real estate is always a decent investment, it's a long term thing; recently there has been a LOT of purchasing of houses and other things with the hope of a quick turnaround at a handsome profit.

Here in Idaho, the market for housing is still pretty good as Idaho is one of the states experiencing pretty danged good growth. The Boise area, in particular, has been hot. But housing is a finite market, and soon even the "hot" markets will be saturated.

Couple this with the large number of people who have purchased houses and are paying "interest only" mortgages or ARMs, a record low in the amount being saved and a record level of personal debt-to-income ratio and you have a recipe for disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:05 PM

And in fairness I must add that the factors in my foregoing response are in no way blaming any political administration -- it's been building for a very long time (20 years or more).

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 10:01 PM

Now real estate is something that I know a little about as it is my main source of income....

It's kind a funny market that involves a lot of seat-of-your-pants decisions which are based on best-knowledge available...

My seat-of-the-pants feel is that it is about to take a hit... As an investor right now, I'd lie low... What has happened is that the big tax cuts to the wealthy ended up, not in purchaseing new plants for American workers, but into lending institutions and this has kep the housing market doing quite well.... Problem is that it hasn't made the US more productive, other than building houses, but made Americans, on the whole, furhter in debt...

American real saving is at a 50 year low!!!

Now, I'm not tto sure if Guest, G remembers what happened at the end of Reagan's term but I do... The housing market went into a tailspin and the bubble burst... $500,000 for a 1500 sq. ft. starter house in Fairfax, Va.???? Lets get real here!!!

If you take out the billions that Bush gave the rich in histax cuts sdo they could lend back into the housing market then the economy would be in the morgue... This ain't real growth here... This is smoke-'n-mirrors growth... Our country is no richer... Just further in debt...

No, as someone who is dependent on making good decisions in real estate, I'm not lookin' to buy anything right now, thank you...

Now back to the censoring of Bush... Or not...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 08:33 AM

Ya load sixteen tons and waddaya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt....

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 06:47 PM

Exactly, Rap...

You can't borrow yer way to prosperity.... Economics 101...

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 06:54 PM

I think Bushie was absent that semester...

A

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:00 AM

"You can't borrow yer way to prosperity.... Economics 101... "


Wrong! You just don't pay it back!

Now what was that South American Country that defaulted on its debt?




:-)

And China thinks it's gonna get paid back - well certainly fter the war...


I TOLD YOU NOT TO MENTION THE WAR!

Subject: RE: BS: Censure Bush!!!!
From: John P
Date: 28 Mar 06 - 09:21 AM

I don't think Bush should be censured. I think every Democrat in Congress, and every honest Republican, should be loudly calling for impeachment. They need to say it every day, to as many reporters as they can get to listen. They need to make it an issue every time any legislation comes up for a vote. I think this country could turn against Bush if anyone else was willing to provide a clear and unambiguous message. This is one that normal folks could wrap their brains around. The president broke the law. He has admitted it. Everyone knows he broke the law, even the people who are vociferously defending him. The democrats in Congress are wimps.

John Peekstok