BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon

Subject: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:02 AM

We want to use the theatrical symbol of spilled blood using a red ribbon that unrolls from a wounded actor's arm. The way it was done in Shakespeare's time. (It's used in the film "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead".)
We've thought of attaching the roll of ribbon with Velcro? thread? onto his sleeve but it's hard to make it look right and hard to have it fall at the right angle at the right time. He can clutch his arm when he's wounded.
Is there an easy way to do this that we haven't thought of? Can't find any info using Google. Where better to turn than Mudcat?
Can anyone help please?
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 05:12 AM

During my days on the boards luvvie, I remember an actor using a fine silk scarf which was secreted about his person (tucked down the back of his pants actually) and 'palmed' during the scene. It was folded into a very small cylinder and taped. Because it was a fight scene, there was no problem about concealing it in his fist and when he was "stabbed" he brought the fist up to the "wound", flicking the tape off and the silk scarf exploded into what looked like a very convincing fountain of claret.

In 'Romeo and Juliet' it's usually concealed around the handle of the dagger she uses.

If you have contemporary costume you could conceal it in the slashing on the sleeves, but without seeing the designs, it's a bit hard to give advice on where it can go.

Good luck, it's really effective.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:39 AM

Might help if we knew where the actor was wounded and the type of costuming (complex costumes would make hiding such a ribbon easier that doing a play in the nude).

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 11:55 AM

Why not let the actor resolve it-- he would know best what he can handle deftly if you give him some scraps to take home and practice with. Then go with his solution.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 02:17 PM

The handkerchiefs that magicians use are very fine, and can be easily concealed in a very small space. I suggest you try a magicians supplies shop.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Helen
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:03 PM

I've sent the link to this thread to my sister who is involved in Repertory Theatre, but who also might be interested in the ideas. Their young people's theatre group has recently very successfully staged Richard III & also Macbeth. Their next Shakespeare play will be Midsummer Night's Dream.

Meanwhile, Joybell, your unfurling ribbon idea reminded me of one of Reg Livermore's stage shows where he had a large number of huge (maybe a foot wide and very long) ribbons rolled up and suspended high above the stage. During one of the numbers the ribbons started unfurling one after the other, down to the stage and it almost looked like slow motion. The effect was magnificent. As they unfurled they had a slow, twisting motion, like cigarette smoke.   It's one of the best stage effects I have ever seen, especially of the low-tech variety, although I imagine there were little motors to set each one going, and the associated technology for that.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 06:20 PM

Thank you so much I knew I'd get some ideas. The ribbon in the fist might work well. He's involved in making his own costume so giving him the rolled ribbon to play around with is a good idea. We're all coming up with ideas for each other - one of the great things about a bunch of friends getting together for something like this.

Sorry I should have given more information about the costume.
No he's not naked. In a Robin Hood costume with an unslashed, loose white sleeve over the potential wound. There's a long collar of green to just above the wounded bit.
Wish we could copy Reg Livermore's idea. That sounds great.

Than you all again. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:17 PM

My daughter is studying stage makeup and costuming. She might be able to help you. I just sent her a link to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

Thanks Naemanson. Even though we are playing around with ideas ourselves you never know when a better idea might pop up. I always do a lot of asking of questions and a lot of research into the things I do. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Mar 06 - 07:56 AM

"(complex costumes would make hiding such a ribbon easier that doing a play in the nude). "

Rapaire### - now I have only one image in mind where he could be shot...





### Rapaire - the face that launched a thousand quips...

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Helen
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:28 AM

I was just watching mythbusters and they said that fake blood is often put into condoms, like water bombs, and then concealed under the actor's shirt, with a tiny explosion set off under it to scatter the blood.

They said cheap fake blood can be made by mixing corn syrup with red food colouring.

I know that that wasn't what you were looking for Joybell, but it was a coincidence that I saw it on tv tonight. You would need lots of shirts, one for each performance at least.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:36 AM

Some red food colourings stain like the very devil so if it's a long run you might want to do some experiments first, or else it will cost you a shirt a performance!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 07:16 AM

I remember an actor playing Rizzio with small balloons of "blood" concealed under a white shirt. As the other actors "stabbed" him he clutched at each wound and the concealed pin in his hand burst the balloon. He then rolled down a staircase to burst any he had missed. Very gory, but as LTS observes it will cost you a shirt for each performance. You can use a red silk cloth or ribbon concealed in the off hand in a similar way. you should also be able to get blood pills from joke shops and stage suppliers. Chew one up and sloosh it about a bit then let it run down your chin at the relevant moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 07:36 AM

I have a red ribbon pinned to the back of my waistcoat when playing Hector in the pace egg play. Pulled through a hole in the front of said garment. No pretence at realism whatsover and goes down very well when 'hammed up'.

...but from St George I received THIS bloody wound
(elaborate play of pulling the ribbon out by hand)

Of course it may not work as well in a serious play;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Mar 06 - 07:44 AM

If you use real bullets, you will use up one actor per performance - and technical rehearsal...

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 06:52 PM

Dave, thank you that's a good idea. We are looking for symbolism rather than the reality too.
Just attached a rolled ribbon onto the actor's sleeve under a cowl. Tied it with a tape in the sort of knot you can pull loose by one end.

(There are Mudcatters who will know the name of that sort of knot. I'm very pernickity about detail so I really should find out for my peace of mind.)

We had to weight the end of the ribbon - and -- Hooray it works.
Have to try it on stage yet. We'll do that tonight.

About those blood capsules -- I used to like to play the "casualty" in first aid competitions within the organization I was part of. Everyone wanted the sort of injury that involved dribbling or vomiting blood. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 06:56 PM

Halloween idea - Dress in normal street clothing but tie a bloody bandage around your head covering one eye. Walk up to people and explain in a perfectly reasonable voice that, "I've lost my eye. Did you happen to see it anywhere?" It works really good with kids walking the streets in search of goodies. Warning! Only approach children already in the company of adults. Try not to go to jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 07:47 PM

Somewhere there must be a website where people discuss stuff like this.

I once became an expert on making fake whiskey, wine, etc. out of food coloring and water. This was years before the Internet. I had to learn by trial and error.

Once you've figured out stuff like this, you don't want to let your knowledge go to waste.

Unfortunately, in my case, it has gone to waste because I've forgotten the formulas.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Apr 06 - 08:04 PM

I did find a bit of discussion on stage-craft, Jim. I feel more at home here on Mudcat though. Being as how I'm a performer and musician rather than an actor and I see things from this angle. Not sure what I'm trying to say really.
Anyway.
It works!!! Very dramatic!! WOW!!!
There'll be people who will say, "Wouldn't you think they could have made it look more realistic? I liked the Pantomime better. It was so funny when the donkey got cut in half with the curtain by accident!!!".
By accident???? When I think about the amount of practice that took getting the timing right!!! Still, can't have them seeing the workings. Kills the magic.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 12:03 PM

Thanks, Joybell - Glad it worked for you:-)

My first airing of the bloody wound this year is tomorrow. I have dug my stuff out and am realy looking forward to it again.

Out of interest I also wear giveaway CDs attached to my waistcoat. The 'bloody wound' comes out of the hole in one. When people ask me what the CDs are are for I say "You have heard of plate mail and chain mail? Well, this is e-mail."

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 12:09 PM

I saw "Spamalot" on Broadway a few weeks ago and they used this exact technique for the Black Knight scene ("It's just a scratch"). It was quite effective, although the purposes were comedic. The audience suspended belief and understood exactly what was going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 01:47 PM

The business as explained by LTS is a good way to do it--I am sure there are others, and the idea of checking with a magic shop for ideas is good, as well.

The key thing is, concealing and pulling out a ribbon or scarf to show blood(they did to good effect in "Chicago" too), is a fairly simple technical trick--it is up to the actor to make it real--

Way too often, even in professional productions, the effort goes into creating a "real" effect, and not into making moment emotionally believable--and you can do that without showing any blood at all--

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 04:23 PM

Break a leg D theG

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 06:52 PM

Dave!! That's great.

M. Ted Yes that way did work too but as the actor has a sword in the hand he has to hold the ribbon in he had trouble with dropping that and not the ribbon.

I'm using symbolism and mime rather a lot in our play. One of the actors particularly (and she's one of the smartest of us and a good actor) can't seem to understand why we're not using more props. Last week she offered us fake money to go in the pockets of a non-existant overcoat.

I've inserted a few funny lines like,
Robin Hood to Eloise (future wife of Alan a Dale): "You can't take all your fine jewels and presents. I've only got one horse and he isn't even real!"

Cheers and thank you everyone Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 10:15 PM

I once did lights for a play in which we had to throw a knife across stage into an actor's back, who then had to fall down a flight of stairs pulling down curtains, and generally wrecking the set.

The thrower had the knife in the belt scabbard, with the handle well seen. He palmed the knife during the throw and the receiver (all timed to the music of the parade band outside the window, BTW) pulled a cord, which allowed the duplicate handle mounted on one inch wide clock spring metal to pop out from being concealed under a flap on the black velvet cape she was wearing.

People kept coming up after the show and asking us just how much padding she had, and just how good was the thrower... :-0

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Apr 06 - 10:17 PM

Oh I forgot... the spring metal made the knife appear to quiver when it hit... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 10 Apr 06 - 12:43 AM

You could make a button hole about the width of the ribbon in the arm at the place where the ribbon is to come out--tie a thread to the ribbon that is connected to the sword--when he drops the sword, the ribbon would be pulled out--or you could tie a lead fishing weight the end of the thread, which could be palmed, and tossed when the blood is to come out--

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Apr 06 - 06:58 PM

We seem to be doing well with the system we have in place now. It's a worry when you get to perform something once only. That's how it is with community theater. It's a small miracle we can get everyone together to do it once.
The really hard part is that everyone has another life beyond the stage. It's a low point when we have to go back to school or work or whatever when the curtain falls for the last time on a show. Just as well we're all friends.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: M.Ted
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 04:57 PM

Don't think of it that way, Joybell--at least you've got something to go back to after the last show--I have a number of friends who are professional actors, and when that last curtain falls, their lives go into limbo til they are offered another show--

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 06:36 PM

Watch out for life imitating art.......

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 06:54 PM

Yes, M Ted, I'm not complaining at all. I'm very, very grateful. I'm overwhelmed by the fact that these friends of mine are willing to bring my dreams to life. We're all part of the same dream now. It's become OUR dream. We all play ourselves, extend our characters, play ourselves, extend our characters... round and round. We've become a family, locked together for better or worse.
Two weeks to SHOW-TIME. !!!!!!!!! AH!!!!! Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Apr 06 - 08:06 PM

'We've become a family, locked together '

Do you promise to take this person in unholy deadlock...

:0

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: GUEST, ali abu Sharrain
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 09:50 PM

I remember being in a play some time ago , where the drama leading up to the play was as interesting as the play itself , it is as if the show itself creates a life of its own , then actors are such fragile creatures ...really not of this world....

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 10:06 PM

I really do miss the days when working on shows, ali abu.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 08:36 AM

Thank you ali abu. Yes! We feel as though we are in some kind of other world. And yes we feel fragile all of us, I think. Slipped into this world by accident - most of us. And recently. Now we don't want to leave. Painful to talk about leaving. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: cryptoanubis
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:01 PM

Definetly another world another time , certainly is a great feeling to belong to something ....

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:46 PM

Actually it's far more than just that, it's "a great feeling to belong to something, that is creating something, and visibly achieving something".

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:26 PM

Foolestroupe come on down here you'd be most welcome.

Our lead character is allowing himself to become isloated from the rest of the cast. He faces Death alone after singing a lonely song (and he's never sung on stage before). Serve me right if he just wandered off and out the stage door, before the final scene, and never came back. He won't though. He's brave. And he's a special friend.
I'm brave too. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: We did it!! Joybell's play!!
From: Joybell
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:01 PM

Well it worked. We're all stage-struck. A play that appeared in my head back about 8 months ago came to life for three hours. Robin Hood -- the Myth. Not the usual story - too much to go into. Robin Hood was wonderful. Everybody was. Audience laughed when they were supposed to. Became afraid and sad when they were supposed to, rejoiced with us when we did an awakening, and then didn't want to go home. OOOOOOOOOOOH! So great!!
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:20 PM

Congratulations, Joy!! Most well-deserved!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:00 AM

Thank you Amos. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 May 06 - 09:05 AM

Life is Theatre.
Theatre is Life.

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 May 06 - 12:27 PM

Congratulations!!

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 06 - 05:50 PM

Congrats Joybell, and the rest of the troupe. Maybe you'd be interested in sending a summary of the plot to the Repertory Society that my sister's family belongs to. They might like to stage it up here as well. The teenage group has put on some really good stuff, including Shakespeare, and the all-ages group has done some interesting things too.

As far as the dramas backstage are concerned, if you get a chance have a look at the Ingmar Bergman film of The Magic Flute which shows just that - the backstage dramas juxtaposed with the onstage show. I saw it on the big screen when it first came out. Loved it!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:21 PM

Thank you Helen. Yes I really enjoy the backstage dramas too. The play was written around the actors, as they are now, so I don't know how well it would adapt. We won't be able to perform it ourselves again so well --we'll have moved on. It's an interesting angle on the Robin Hood story though. It flits in and out of different realities. Explores opposites and balance, bondings and groupings. Has very little to do with the usual adventures of Robin Hood. More to do with his connections with the Green man, Mayday, Robin Goodfellow, Changlings, mythology generally.
I have no idea why it arrived in my head when it did. I have no idea if anything will ever appear there again. Pavement art. Now you see it now it's gone.
If you'd like a copy of the script though, Helen, it's yours.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Helen
Date: 02 May 06 - 03:26 AM

Well, I'll ask my sister what she thinks, but the more you talk about it the more I think it would fit in with some of the plays they have done, especially in the teenage group, which is open to something a bit different.

I'll let you know whether they would be interested.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Stagecraft question re blood with ribbon
From: Joybell
Date: 02 May 06 - 07:22 PM

Thanks for your interest Helen.
Going to do a hand-over of the proceeds to the local hall in the next few days. It's a struggling concern but vital to the community. We are glad to have been some help in its survival.
*Sigh* It's hard to come down again. Knew it would be. The whole little town is buzzing. Cheers, Joy