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BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ...
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Subject: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Arne Date: 30 Mar 06 - 02:18 AM ... and not a minute too soon. Because ... there's certain things you simply should not do at night. Such as: "The Ministry of Defense requests that civilians do not comply with the orders of the army or police on nightly patrols unless they are accompanied by coalition forces working in that area."Yes, listen to the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. At least they know the score ... and have the guts to tell you. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: The Badger Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:18 PM Come on now! It's not every coalition can start a religious/sectarian civil war. Credit where credit is due!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:23 PM Fron Arne's link, the paragraph that follows the one he quoted: "That's how messed up the country is at this point....The situation is so bad on the security front that the top two ministries in charge of protecting Iraqi civilians cannot trust each other. The Ministry of Defense can't even trust its own personnel, unless they are "accompanied by American coalition forces". |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Little Hawk Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:36 PM It's a mess, on top of a disaster, in the jaws of a total fiasco. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: SINSULL Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM I thought the implication was that AT NIGHT police not accompanied by coalition forces are likely to be terrorist kidnappers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:46 PM Everything I see from Iraq seems to indicate that, while Saddam was undoubtedly a really nasty piece of work, and for anyone who did anything to get in his bad books it was likely to be curtains, for ordinary Iraqis who kept their head down life has got far far worse then it was before, and with no visible prospect of it getting any better. Leaving aside the Kurds in the North, for whom things haven't changed much, because in effect they'd been out of Saddam's control for years and were under no danger of getting back into it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 30 Mar 06 - 07:50 PM We're in big trouble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:15 PM Our troubles are as nothing compared to the troubles of the people in Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:27 PM True, McG of H, but things in the US are not all that great: 'Hunger and Food Insecurity in the United States One of the most disturbing and extraordinary aspects of life in this very wealthy country is the persistence of hunger. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reports, based on a national U.S. Census Bureau survey of households representative of the U.S. population, that in 2004 11.9 percent of all U.S. households were "food insecure" because of lack of resources. Of the 13.5 million households that were food insecure, 4.4 million suffered from food insecurity that was so severe that USDA's very conservative measure classified them as "hungry."' from www.frac.org/html/hunger_in_the_us/hunger_index.html This is not meant to demean the tragedy in Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:30 PM That was not posted to demean the problems being faced by Iraqis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:48 PM I'm sure that's true, and in the richest country in the world, and the richest country that there ever has been in the world, it's almost unbelievable. But Americans have got the power to change all that in their own hands any time they choose to face up to it, and that's not really the case for the people of Iraq at present. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:52 PM That is so, Kevin. It's shameful, but Canada has the same sort of stats as the US. Bloody crime. Keep people worrying so much about living day to day, and it's real easy to forget those who are in worse condition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: JohnInKansas Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:25 PM Briefly: Arne, in the opening post, linked a "report" from one "Kevin Drum" at Washington Monthly. It wasn't apparent at first to me that he is is not the original correspondent, but is "quoting" an unidentified "blogger" called Riverbend. The Wahington Monthly snippet has a link: ("read the whole thing") to the complete blog entry. The original blogger (Riverbend) offers some "additonal thoughts" that Mr. Drum omitted, that are perhaps worth reading, to understand how at least that one person - obviously(?) "on site" in Iraq - sees the news item. The "conversation" described relative to "what do we do about it?" is particularly poignant(?). The message is believeable, and somewhat unsurprising; but messages from unidentified (or vaguely indentified) sources must be viewed with some caution. News(?) from other sources makes it almost inevitable that the situation described will occur - probably is happening; and it is essential that someone, whether it's Iraqi or Coalition, or some "other" police forces, must develop some consisitent credibility. Not knowing "who's the enemy" has been a pretty standard tool for oppressive regimes in many places at many times. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:45 PM The real problem appears to be that the official "Iraqi" police is riddled with religious militias (how's that for an oxymoron--sadly, no longer-- sounds similar to the relationship between the Inquisition and the civil authorities). And that people are being picked up by the "police"--and sometimes disappearing--for the crime of having a Sunni-type name. It all goes back to what I've been saying elsewhere--without Sunni participation in the government, Sunnis will not trust the government--and they won't participate unless they're given a fair shake--especially in oil income distribution. The Sunni-dominated part of Iraq (and Baghdad) has little oil. The Kurds and Shiites are perfectly happy with a very loose federation--and control of the oil in their respective areas. If this happens, the Sunnis are out of luck---and they know it. And the insurgency will have a endless supply of fighters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Barry Finn Date: 31 Mar 06 - 12:13 AM There is no new day dawning in Iraq but there is a darkening cloud loaming over their horzion. They can't trust their security forces, they're in fear of the police, nobody can trust one another & the US forces are killing civilians by the family load. Civil war is hedging it's way closer & we saved them from WHAT & gave them WHAT? One the bright side, we're not living in a world of shit, they are & there's not one thing we can or will do about it. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Sep 06 - 09:40 AM On this new day dawning in Iraq, we have the news, (per Wall St Journal today) that: 1) The US is moving troops from Anbar to Baghdad, but denies abandoning Anbar to insurgents--though there have been recent intelligence reports that even with the troops there, Anbar was under control of insurgents (this last part not from the WSJ). 2) "Iraqi troops are to dig trenches around the city (Baghdad) to force all cars into checkpoints." |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:10 PM From what you have written above, it appears that the Iraqi troops are there to support U.S. troops and not the other way around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:35 PM Dianavan- As you know, the goal is to have Iraqi troops gradually take over ALL responsibilities. What I think is interesting is that the Baghdad situation is so far out of control, even with the ballyhoed joint US-Iraq security push in Baghdad--(which results in writing off, at least temporarily--other parts of the country)---that such a drastic solution as bringing all traffic coming into the city to a halt is considered necessary. Baghdad is a BIG city--can you imagine the traffic jams even with just a fraction of the area population having cars? And the impact this will have on business--and hence on unemployment--already about 40%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:06 PM Yes, the idea is to bring the economy to a standstill. What the U.S. will soon learn is that the U.S. dollar is not as mighty as they believe. Unfortunately, it is all of us who will suffer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:44 PM No, actually, it won't help the US to bring the Iraqi economy to a standstill. Would you like to explain why it would? |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:21 PM Whenever you are reduced to poverty, you are dependent on 'others'. The others, in this case, is the U.S. govt. The survival of Iraq has been reduced to complete dependency on U.S. intervention. Unless, of course, the U.S. leaves and allows Iran to govern. Building a trench around Baghdad is obviously 'a last ditch effort'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM Sorry--the US does not want to have Iraq totally dependent on the US. It would be very expensive--and not win any friends. The US does want a government willing to let US oil firms exploit oil resources, and one positively inclined towards the US, At this point, it looks like that government will be the de facto Kurdistan--only----which, as I discussed months ago, was a possible fallback position being considered a long time ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:02 PM ...and how long do you think Kurdistan will survive? I doubt if the Arabs will ever allow the Kurds to control the flow of oil. Thats like allowing Aboriginal Americans to control the fisheries and forests. Not a bad idea but will it work? No, its better to have a population entirely dependent on the U.S. for their very survival. The U.S. has already shown the Iraqis that American taxpayers are ready and willing to support the 'war on terrorism'. Now they are insuring that the Iranian economy is also totally dependent on U.S. intervention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: GUEST Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:22 PM The UN should get in and the US should get oput. If the Iraqis are left to themselves, there will be a few million dead real soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: gnu Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:48 PM Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Peace - PM Date: 30 Mar 06 - 08:52 PM That is so, Kevin. It's shameful, but Canada has the same sort of stats as the US. Bloody crime. Keep people worrying so much about living day to day, and it's real easy to forget those who are in worse condition. *************************************************************** Yup. The rich subjugate the poor and employ the poor to enforce, by force, the subjugation of the poorer. I see that Stevie is going to send more tanks and troops to Afghanistan to subjugate us and them right up the ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Sep 06 - 06:02 PM Dianavan- I'm talking only about the oil now in de facto Kurdistan--which the Kurds will definitely control. Possibly including the oil-rich Kirkuk area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:14 PM Yes, I think you are right. I also think Iran would support that. I doubt if the Sunnis will. It will probably get down to Iran supporting the Kurds against the aggressive Sunnis. Hey, wait a minute - hasn't this happened before? ...only last time, it was the U.S. supporting Saddam and the Sunni crowd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:38 AM No, Iran is not likely to support the Kurds--against anybody. Turkey, Iran, and Iraq each have Kurdish areas--and Kurds elsewhere-- and none of them want to encourage the Kurds--who have a strong desire for their own "homeland"--which would of necessity mean taking some territory from one or more of the above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:41 AM Syria also has Kurds. And none of these national states want to encourage the Kurds in any desire to also have a national state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: dianavan Date: 17 Sep 06 - 01:03 PM Why did Iran support the Kurds against the U.S. supported Saddam? |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 17 Sep 06 - 06:01 PM Because of the blood feud betwen Iran and Iraq. But remember, the next Iraqi government is very likely to be Shia--like Iran. The Saddam regime was Sunni. Iran will have no incentive to support a breakaway movement against a fellow Shia state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: beardedbruce Date: 21 Sep 06 - 02:42 PM "BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Insurgents are no longer using just volunteers to drive suicide car bombs but are instead kidnapping people with their cars, rigging the vehicles with explosives, and blowing them up remotely, the Defense Ministry said Thursday. In what appears to be a new tactic for the insurgency, the ministry said the kidnap victims do not know their cars have been loaded with explosives when they are released. The ministry issued a statement saying that first "a motorist is kidnapped with his car. They then booby trap the car without the driver knowing. Then the kidnapped driver is released and threatened to take a certain road." The kidnappers follow the car and when the unwitting victim "reaches a checkpoint, a public place, or an army or police patrol, the criminal terrorists following the driver detonate the car from a distance," the Defense Ministry statement said. There was no immediate comment from the U.S. military. In the past, U.S. officials have said insurgents often tape or handcuff a suicide driver's hands to a car, or bind his foot to the gas pedal, to ensure that he does not back out at the last minute." http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/21/iraq.main.ap/index.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Sep 06 - 08:23 PM And of course the U.S. puppet defense ministry would have no reason to invent this dastardly plot out of whole cloth.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Wolfgang Date: 22 Sep 06 - 06:53 AM The way the insurgents in Iraq have tried everything they could to keep civilian casualties to a minimum in the last months this can only be an invention. We all should never forget that invariably crimes attributed to the coalition forces or the Iraqi puppet government are just the tip of an iceberg and crimes attributed to the insugents are inventions. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:33 AM BAGHDAD (AP) — Gunmen opened fire on Sunni mosques and homes in a religiously mixed Baghdad neighborhood Friday, killing four people in an attack that drew the condemnation of Sunni leaders across the city. In other apparent sectarian violence, police found the blindfolded and bound bodies of nine men from a Sunni tribe who had been dragged out of a wedding dinner in east Baghdad the night before by men dressed in Iraqi army uniforms, police Maj. Mahir Hamad Mussa. Four other bodies were found in other parts of the capital, again blindfolded and with their hands and legs tied. The U.S. command said an American soldier was killed after his vehicle was hit by a roadside bombing in eastern Baghdad late Thursday. The attack on the mosques happened in the capital's northern Hurriya area, a mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhood. Although it is a target of a joint Iraqi and American security operation to clear the capital neighborhood by neighborhood, sweeps in Hurriya have not yet begun. About 20 gunmen started by opening fire on several houses and setting two ablaze, said police Lt. Maithem Abdel-Razzaq. In addition to the people killed, one was wounded. They then opened fire on two mosques, damaging the buildings but not causing any injuries, Razzaq said. When U.S. and Iraqi soldiers arrived, supported by helicopters, the gunmen fled. The 10:15 a.m. attack came 45 minutes before a weekly vehicle ban and curfew came into effect to prevent sectarian violence against worshippers on the Muslim holy day. The rules were put in place after the Feb. 22 bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, which inflamed tensions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims and triggered months of reprisal attacks. To protest the Hurriya attacks, the Sunni Endowment decided to suspend traditional Friday prayers in all Sunni mosques in the neighborhood, Sunni-run Baghdad TV reported. "We condemn and regret such acts where the followers of the one religion are killing each other," said Ayad al-Obeidi, an official in the Sunni Endowment, which is in charge of all Sunni mosques across Iraq. "The occupation forces have brought chaos and violence to this country and they bear responsibility for what is happening." The U.N. Assistance Mission in Iraq's Human Rights office this week warned that the number of Iraqi civilians killed in July and August hit 6,599, a record-high figure that is far greater than initial estimates had suggested and points to the grave sectarian crisis gripping the country. It offered a grim assessment across a range of indicators, reporting worrying evidence of torture, unlawful detentions, the growth of sectarian militias and death squads, and a rise in "honor killings" of women. Elsewhere in Iraq, an imam at a Sunni mosque in western Baghdad took a swipe at Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's 24-point reconciliation plan, demanding the government "take a serious stance" against the sectarian violence roiling the country. Al-Maliki announced the plan last month in hopes of bridging the religious, ethnic and political divisions that have been tearing Iraq apart since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. The plan includes an offer of amnesty to members of the Sunni Arab-led insurgency not involved in terrorist activities, and calls for disarming primarily Shiite sectarian militias. "Those who want to achieve national reconciliation should take action regarding what happened in Hurriya," Imam Mahmoud al-Sumeidie told worshippers at the Um al-Qura mosque. "If not, then the reconciliation plan would be a hollow and useless slogan." In Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit, meanwhile, 3,000 people demonstrated outside a mosque, demanding the return of the former dictator to power, organizers said. The people gathered in front of the al-Jamaa al-Kabir mosque at the call of two religious organizations, the Association of Muslim Scholars and the Tikrit Shura Council. Saddam is on trial on genocide charges in Baghdad. The crowd demanded his release, and for him to be allowed to resume power again as president, said Mohammed Talib Jassim, head of the Tikrit Shura Council. They also condemned Pope Benedict XVI's recent remarks on Islam and violence and demanded the U.S. and Iraqi armies stop conducting raids and coalition forces release prisoners taken from Tikrit, located 80 miles north of Baghdad. In other violence, according to police: • Two police officers died when the roadside bomb they were trying to defuse exploded in Haswa, south of Baghdad. • The body of a blindfolded and bound man was found in Musayyib, south of Baghdad. • A gas pipeline between the Beiji and Dora refineries near Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, was attacked Thursday evening. It was not immediately clear whether it was an act of sabotage, or whether people had been trying to steal fuel from the pipeline. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: beardedbruce Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:36 AM BAGHDAD — Ali Hatem al-Iraqi, a renowned Iraqi singer, was shocked at how popular his latest recording had become. Its lyrics called on all Iraq's tribes to join together in seeking peace. "This song made everybody satisfied because it let them know they all belong to these tribes and in the end they are brothers," he says. Iraqis have long been drawn to sentimental songs about nationalism and love. Singers are now turning to the theme of peace. A number of new songs urge the major Muslim groups — Sunni Arabs, Shiite Arabs and Kurds, who are mostly Sunni — to live together in harmony. An appeal to Iraqis' tribal identity was more powerful, Iraqi says. Most Iraqis have a strong tribal identity. The lyrics of his new song name many of the most prominent tribes in Iraq. "I wanted to put all the tribes in one song, because they represent the spectrum of our society," Iraqi says. Iraqi's song has resonated. "We air this song six times per day because of the audience phone calls and e-mails," says Ali Abdel Hakim, a program manager at Al Zawraa TV, which airs music videos, movies and news. When Al Zawraa started in October 2005, it aired mostly love songs, Hakim says. Last year, the station began airing about 60 nationalist and peace songs a day, Hakim says. The station is owned by Mishaan al-Jubouri, a Sunni member of parliament. The peace songs really took off this year after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki launched a reconciliation plan aimed at making Iraq's Shiite-dominated government inclusive. Singers answered the call. "Most of the singers don't ask for money — they just want to deliver the peace message to the Iraqis," says Hakim, whose station produces music videos. Many of the lyrics translate awkwardly into English, but one popular song by Husam al-Rasam has a simple chorus: Don't plant a bomb in the street. Plant a flower. Iraqi said he is optimistic his songs will have an impact. "I'm sure our songs will save a lot of Iraqi lives," he says. Khalid al-Iraqi, one of the country's most renowned singers, lives in Syria. But many of his songs are popular in Iraq and urge peace. "We are the peace ambassadors of Iraq," he says in a telephone interview from Damascus. "The majority of Iraqis are against violence and sectarianism. Peace will be restored there sooner or later." |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:17 PM News today--24 Sept 2006--the Iraqi parliament has decided to put off for at least 18 months any decision on federalizing Iraq--for exactly the reason I brought up last year--the Sunni fear that semi-autonomous regions would mean the Sunni-dominated section of Iraq (including Baghdad--Baghdad population of course being mixed sectarian groups) would be left without much oil. The northern area --(de facto Kurdistan)--will be semi-autonomous--no matter what the Iraqi parliament eventually decides--after all, they had been so since the Gulf War. Status of the oil-rich Kirkuk area is still to be thrashed out. The question is whether the Shiite south will also just decide to become semi-autonomous --without any input from the parliament--and whether Sunnis will have much of a say in the "national" government. If they feel they don't, the civil war will do nothing but worsen. And nobody here was in favor of Saddam's tyranny--contrary to the slander by some Bushites----but I've just read some estimates that the use of torture in Iraq is now worse than under Saddam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:21 PM Coalition forces in Iraq have suddenly received the manpower equivalent of three light infantry divisions. They did not suffer any repercussions in domestic politics as a result, and now have a huge edge over al-Qaeda in al-Anbar province. How did this happen? Tribal leaders in the largely Sunni province on the Syrian border got together and signed an agreement to raise a tribal force of 30,000 fighters to take on foreign fighters and terrorists. These leaders have thrown in with the central government in Baghdad. This is a decisive blow to al Qaeda, which has been desperately trying to fight off an Iraqi government that is getting stronger by the week. Not only are the 30,000 fighters going to provide more manpower, but these tribal fighters know the province much better than American troops – or the foreign fighters fighting for al Qaeda. Also, this represents just over 80 percent of the tribes in al-Anbar province now backing the government. The biggest gain for the coalition is that they will now have forces on their side that know the terrain in al Anbar province. This is a very big deal in a campaign against the terrorists. When a force knows the terrain, it can make life miserable for its enemies. Just ask any Army unit that has gone through the National Training Center at Fort Irwin. The OPFOR (Opposing Force) has fought there for so long that they know all the good ambush sites. Units coming there for a training session don't have that knowledge – and they pay the price in the exercises held there. This is just one sign that the tide is turning in favor of the coalition in Iraq. Many of the Sunni leaders have decided that the Shia-dominated Iraqi government is not going away any time soon, nor is the democratic process. As such, the tribal leaders have now decided that it is better to be on their good side rather than to be seen as uncooperative. Constant Arab casualties in al Qaeda attacks – and al Qaeda's desire for a caliphate – have not helped matters any, either. On the other hand, by signing up with the government, these tribal leaders will hasten the construction of government services, and gain something else just as valuable – the government's gratitude. In essence, the tribal leaders have slowly been won over by a combination of coalition perseverance and al Qaeda strategic ineptness. This agreement, if it holds, is a win for the United States, which is looking for measurable progress. It is a win for the Shia-dominated Iraqi government, which will now have an easier time in that province. It is a win for the tribal leaders, who will get a few markers they can call in down the road from the government for their assistance. For al Qaeda, now facing the equivalent of three additional light infantry divisions composed of people who will have knowledge of al Anbar province, it is a huge loss. The major downside is that many of the tribesmen still support al Qaeda, and will defy their tribal leaders by continuing to work with the terrorists, or by not being very enthusiastic in fighting the terrorists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:39 PM "decisive"--that's a little premature, Dave. We've heard these wonderful assurances before. Pray tell, what is your source that this particular move will be "decisive"? So far, Bush's crystal ball has been a bit cloudy, to say the least. Where did you get yours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:43 PM I don't resort to that bullshit Ron and i'm very dissapointed that you apparently do. Figure it out for yourself, these guys are starting to work together, and it is an Iraqi made solution not a US one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: pdq Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:48 PM If one didn't know better, one might think Ron Davies were hoping for a bloodbath in Iraq just so he could claim it was Bush's fault. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Sep 06 - 12:51 PM Time will tell, Dave. And I'm disappointed in you that you still believe the Bushite garbage. The question is becoming who will be the last to die for a mistake. And a mistake which has just been identified--by many of the US intelligence services--as probably the main source of the Islamic violence all over the world. And you still haven't told us where you got your crystal ball. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Ron Davies Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:02 PM pdq-- more slander from Bushites. Am I surprised? QED |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: pdq Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:05 PM Great, Ronbo. Now you're a 'poor little victim'. How sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Amos Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:25 PM Dave: Your well written post about the initiative of tribal leaders...where did it come from? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:40 PM >>If one didn't know better, one might think Ron Davies were hoping for a bloodbath in Iraq just so he could claim it was Bush's fault.<< There already IS a bloodbath in Iraq, you idiot, and it IS Bush's fault. Good fucking lord. |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:43 PM Sources LOL ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: pdq Date: 24 Sep 06 - 01:56 PM Here are some numbers to think about. Bloodbath? Deaths caused by Saddam Hussien (1.4 million/24 years : 159 /day Deaths (violent) in Iraq since the 2003 liberation: 14 /day Deaths caused by president Bush (ever): 0 Death in US by violent crime: 70 /day |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: Amos Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:02 PM Your sense of causation is wunnerful awry, PDQ. President Bush individually and alone signed the marching orders that brought about thousands of -- perhaps hundreds of thousands -- of violent deaths and maimings. Giving the orders IS a point of complete responsibility. Just because he was safe in the Oval Orifice and did not have to fire rockets, drop bombs, or shoot a rufle personally does not change the trail of direct causation. And, I might stress, he did it with full intention, complete lack of remorse, and no sense of consequences, which are symptoms one finds in many criminals. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: It's a new day dawning in Iraq! ... From: pdq Date: 24 Sep 06 - 02:15 PM A mad gunman goes on a shooting rampge and kills many people. A cop pulls out a rifle and drops the bastard. Liberals call the cop a 'bloody killer'. Sane people call the gunman a murderer and call the cop a hero. |
