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Where are all the black country songs?

Related threads:
Black Country Men (28)
Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area (47)
Black Country Dialect (30)
The Black Country - part of central England (4)


Steve Parkes 09 Feb 99 - 08:09 AM
Martin _Ryan 09 Feb 99 - 01:24 PM
Joe Offer 09 Feb 99 - 02:00 PM
Bruce O. 09 Feb 99 - 02:10 PM
Alice 09 Feb 99 - 05:11 PM
Liam's Brother 09 Feb 99 - 05:25 PM
John in Brisbane 09 Feb 99 - 06:08 PM
Jo Taylor 09 Feb 99 - 07:18 PM
Jerry Friedman 09 Feb 99 - 11:15 PM
katlaughing 10 Feb 99 - 12:46 AM
david d. 10 Feb 99 - 01:16 AM
Brian Hoskin 10 Feb 99 - 02:51 AM
Steve Parkes 10 Feb 99 - 03:57 AM
Steve Parkes 10 Feb 99 - 04:37 AM
Alice 10 Feb 99 - 10:30 AM
Pete M 10 Feb 99 - 03:26 PM
Melodeon 10 Feb 99 - 06:03 PM
Jo Taylor 10 Feb 99 - 07:22 PM
Joe Offer 10 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM
Jo Taylor 10 Feb 99 - 07:43 PM
Jo Taylor 10 Feb 99 - 08:01 PM
Alice 10 Feb 99 - 09:31 PM
Roger in Baltimore 10 Feb 99 - 10:03 PM
Steve Parkes 11 Feb 99 - 03:39 AM
Roger the zimmer 12 Feb 99 - 08:33 AM
Jo Taylor 12 Feb 99 - 07:48 PM
Art Thieme 12 Feb 99 - 11:36 PM
Ian HP 13 Feb 99 - 05:15 AM
Dr John 14 Feb 99 - 10:44 AM
Liam's Brother 14 Feb 99 - 12:57 PM
Steve Parkes 15 Feb 99 - 03:42 AM
Steve Parkes 15 Feb 99 - 04:21 AM
Steve Parkes 15 Feb 99 - 07:42 AM
Jo Taylor 16 Feb 99 - 06:15 PM
Liam's Brother 16 Feb 99 - 07:01 PM
Steve Parkes 17 Feb 99 - 03:22 AM
Steve Parkes 17 Feb 99 - 03:43 AM
Pete M 17 Feb 99 - 02:53 PM
Jo Taylor 17 Feb 99 - 08:23 PM
Jerry Friedman 18 Feb 99 - 03:02 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:13 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:14 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:15 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:16 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:17 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:18 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:19 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:21 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:22 PM
Jo Taylor 18 Feb 99 - 07:23 PM
MMario 19 Feb 99 - 12:33 PM
Jerry Friedman 19 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM
Steve Parkes 22 Feb 99 - 10:29 AM
Jo Taylor 22 Feb 99 - 06:04 PM
Steve Parkes 23 Feb 99 - 03:19 AM
Jo Taylor 23 Feb 99 - 05:18 PM
Steve Parkes 24 Feb 99 - 03:23 AM
Roger the zimmer 24 Feb 99 - 08:47 AM
Steve Parkes 24 Feb 99 - 11:35 AM
Roger the zimmer 24 Feb 99 - 11:44 AM
Steve Parkes 25 Feb 99 - 03:12 AM
Roger the zimmer 01 Sep 99 - 06:26 AM
Roger the zimmer 03 Sep 99 - 08:20 AM
Roger the zimmer 03 Sep 99 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,STEVE 08 Jun 17 - 10:25 AM
Roger the Skiffler 09 Jun 17 - 05:21 AM
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Mr Red 10 Jun 17 - 05:54 AM
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Subject: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 08:09 AM

I was just doing a search for black country, looking for songs from the Black Country - the heart of the old industrial English Midlands, when I found this plaintive plea: "why aren't there more black country singers"

I was just doing a search for black country, looking for songs from the Black Country - the heart of the old industrial English Midlands, when I found this plaintive plea: "why aren't there more black country singers?". Ah, I thought, good question - I'm a singer from the Black Country, but I'm a long way from home most of the time. On the other hand, there are more folk singers and musicians in the Black Country than you can shake a stick at - what's the problem? Reading on, I realised the questioner was bemoaning the melanin-challenged preponderance of proponents of Country music - not the same thing at all.

ÿ

I ought to sing a bit more of my heritage, oughtn't I? Apart fom a book of songs collected by Jon Raven, with no tunes, I don't actually know any BC songs. Any on yo Black Country lads & wenches out there put me out of my misery?

ÿ

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 01:24 PM

You would raise this today! I've just packed away my songbooks (among others) as a start to moving house. Lurking among them is a collection called "Songs of the Midlands" which I suspect might help. When it surfaces, I'll post details - if nobody else does so before then

Regards


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 02:00 PM

I saw this this thread, and my first thought was,
Yeah, that's a good question. There's Charley Pride, and he's really good, but why isn't there any other black country music?
Charley Price, born in Mississippi in 1938 is the only black person who is well known in american country music.
But that's not wheat you're talking about, is it, Steve? I think some of us from the Colonies may need a bit of enlightenment. Can you give us a bit of the story of the styles and traditions of Black Country music? for that matter, how'd it get the name "Black Country" in the first place, and how big is the area, and what's it like?
-Joe offer-


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 02:10 PM

'Songs of the Midlands' is by Roy Palmer, EP Publishing Limited, East Ardsley, Wakefield, Yorkshire, 1972. 67 songs with tunes (and a few variants). One might also try 'English County Songs'. I think there may be more than two books of that title, 1- Cecil Sharp and 2- Lucy Broadwood. These two have been reprinted.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 05:11 PM

Charley Pride, a real gentleman, and the person I thought of when I read this thread title. My older brother played in a band with Charley Pride in Helena, MT, when Charley was just starting his singing career. My brother was teaching guitar at the local music store, and they needed a guitarist. Charley was working for a plumbing company. My best friend babysat his kids. Nice family.

Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 05:25 PM

Hi Steve!

About the same time Roy Palmer's book came out, Topic released an LP called "The Wide Midlands." I have it. Also, years ago, someone sent me a tape of something called "Black Country Night Out." I have a copy of each as well as the Palmer book in storage and will try to dig out some details for you... probably Sunday or Monday.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 06:08 PM

Hi Steve,

While living in Melbourne my house was burgled 10 times in 9 years. One of the many possessions which I lost was a vinyl of a group known as the Black country Three, circa early 70's. My best remembered track was a great version of the Corpus Christy Carol, but my memory tells me that they also included some tracks related to local heritage - hence their name. Sorry if this linkage is a bit obscure. Regards
John


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 07:18 PM

I've got a little booklet - looks very home produced - called 'Folksongs of the Black Country', published by the Wolverhampton Folk Song Club 1964. Edited by J Raven & M Raven, sung by The Black Country Three, foreword by J H Fletcher. Don't think it's the one referred to above by Steve, this has got tunes for 6 of the 9 songs, & one's a poem anyway.
Yow wont more details, Steve?
PS What do you call a Chinese man who lives between Stourbridge and Quarry Bank? Yow Min Li.
('Scuse my accent, I'm not from thereabouts!)
Jo


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 11:15 PM

Could somebody please explain "Yow Min Li"?


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 12:46 AM

Maybe we'd rather not know, eh? How many Mudcatters are there in Asian countries or of Asian descent? I know of one at least in Japan! And, yes I AM being a bleedy heart!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: david d.
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 01:16 AM

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the question - whether we're talking about songs from the Black Country or country songs written by blacks. A couple of the above even took it to mean songs by black singers. I don't know what the real intent of the question was, but I thought I'd add this as food for thought. There are hundreds of "black country" songs, if you take it to mean songs written by black men and performed in the country idiom. Witness: about half of what Jerry Lee Lewis has done over the years; Elvis (essentially a country singer who went mainstream as a 'rockabilly-turned-rock'n'roller') had some of his biggest hits with tunes penned by black men (That's All Right, Mama by Arther "Big Boy" Crudup springs to mind); Hank Williams, Woody Guthrie and a host of others did "white blues" as a sub-field of country music, with many of the songs from the likes of Leadbelly, Bo Carter and others. And then, just to confuse matters a little more, what about Ray Charles, who did at least one whole album of country, plus random cuts on a lot of others?


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 02:51 AM

I seem to remember on my last visit to the Black Country Museum, that their gift shop had a number of song books - alongside a plethora of Enoch and Eli joke books (mudcatters from outside the English Midlands, don't even bother asking - we could never explain!). So there must be books out there.

Brian


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 03:57 AM

Believe it or not, Jo, I've never heard your "Yow Min Li" joke. I thought it was very funny, but unfortunately I'm working in Milton Keynes right now, and I can't tell it to anybody who'd understand - they cor mek aert what yo'm on abaert!

Thanks Martin, Bruce, Dan (Black Country Night Out - heavy going, even without the faggots and paes!), John and Brian too. (Faggots? Oh, I'll explain another time!)

The Black Country is a small part of the West Midlands of England, around Walsall, Dudley and that part (apologies if I've missed you out!); where it starts and ends depends largely on who you ask - people often believe themselves to be in it when they're not, or outside it when they are. A bit like the fabled sound of Bow Bells, I suppose. The accent sounds very strange to outsiders, but is actually directly descended from the mediaeval dialect that was spoken by Chaucer, all the way down to London. The region itself was so-called because of the iron founding industry that went on there for so many centuries; there were plentiful deposits of coal, iron and limestone. The industry turned the air and the ground black. Legend has it that when Queen Victoria passed through by train she used to draw the blinds ...

There are several Web sites devoted to the Black Country, which I've neglected to copy - sorry! - but they're easy enough to find.

Jo: I'll lave it to yo to explaern, aer kid. Kape aert th'oss road!

Stave


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 04:37 AM

Here's a couple of links if you want to know a bit more:
http://www.theblackcountry.com/home/index.htm
http://www.personal.u-net.com/~goodall/bcountry/bc_home.htm

Sorry, I've forgotten how to do it, and I can't find my crib sheet - you'll have to cut & paste 'em.

Steve
Bookmark this page for info on HTML and posting links, Steve. Thanks for the great links.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 10:30 AM

david d., the meaning of the thread was made clear in the first sentence ..."songs from the Black Country - the heart of the old industrial English Midlands..." Joe and I were just being facetious, posting about Charlie Pride. It's a joke, son. At the Mudcat, have to watch out for alot of tongues in cheeks, which you can't see through the computer screen.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Pete M
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 03:26 PM

Oh come on Kat, if you don't know the accent or area, don't jump to conclusions. If we start to ban puns in case some one might come along and be offended, we'll never hear from Art again.

(Jerry, as a hint, have a look at an map of the area!)

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Melodeon
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 06:03 PM

I have a record of George Dunn who lived and worked in the Black Country all his life. It is on the Leader Label LEE 4042 and was recorded by Bill Leader in 1971. It has a wide range of songs on it, as well as extensive notes by Roy Palmer + photographs and a discography.

I don't suppose it is still available now except at second hand record sales - but it is well worth getting -George Dunn a lovely singer.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:22 PM

Ok, Ok, I give in. Lye is a place name, it's between Stourbridge and Quarry Bank (two other places).
Thanks for your support Pete! Now, was that really so offensive, katlaughing? Only intelligible to those who've encountered the accent, which I can't actually do very well, it slips into Brummie, sorry, Birmingham, and Black Country folks get very snitty when you think they're from Birmingham! Oi be vrum Deb'n me dears.
Um - was anyone interested in the songs in my little book or have you already got them, Steve? Must get practising, friends from Alvechurch arriving on Friday, bit out of the area but they don't like being called Brummies either!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM

This thread would be a very nice place to post those songs, Jo. We're all waiting, quite politely (you may want to save yourself some typing and check first to see that they're not already posted in the forum or database). But yes, CERTAINLY we'd like those songs.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:43 PM

Will check now, typing will take a little longer. I can't type very fast, the yard's full of snow, mud & men with yellow machines ripping the roof off, paying guests arriving tomorrow & Friday (eek), brochures, menus & CD covers to design & our web site to finish....in other words it might be a couple of days! Bear with me.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 08:01 PM

Ok, checked, one only there. Will do them all in one go and put in the notes too. Oh no, just realised what I've said, I meant footnotes but I guess you'll want the ABC thingies too...


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 09:31 PM

just start with the words, Jo, the ABC can wait... it sounds like you have enough work to keep you busy without catering to our curiosity, too.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 10:03 PM

Working in Baltimore, which has a strong African-American culture, I thought this was a thread sort of dedicated to February, Black History Month in the USA.

Jo, if you're having all that trouble in the yard, I'd simply suggest you move the computer inside. Maybe you could type faster then.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 03:39 AM

Jo, I've just realised on re-reading this thread that I never did say "yes, please", so: yes, please! I've taken the pig off the wall, and we're both waiting in the study with bated breath.

What about the smell? The pig'll just have to put up with it!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 08:33 AM

I was born in Birmingham (UK)though I've lived and worked elsewhere for 30+ years. I have a book called Folklore and songs of the Black Country vol 2 edited by Michael and Jon Ravens and published by the Wolverhampton Folk Song Club in 1966. I seem to have acquired it in the 1970s, long after I left, so must have picked it up second-hand or as a remainder. Inside is a flier advertising a record by the Black Country Three (Transatlantic TRA 140) which I never managed to track down. I'm sure I heard them sing on the BBC Radio at that time , and I think the Ravens were two of the three. I seem to remember on of their songs about pushing canal ("cut" to us!) barges through a West Midlands tunnel (Dudley?) by lying on one's back on the cabin and pushing with feet on the tunnel roof, called "Push, boys, Push"). I had one Irish grandfather (born in India of Irish parents and spending his adult life in Birmingham) who told me Pat and Mike stories and one Cheshire born grandfather (also spent his adult life in Birmingham) who told me Enoch & Eli stories. Stripped of the dialect element they were very similar! So now I can bore for England. My father still lives in Birmingham and at 80+ still supports West Bromwich Albion (Soccer) football team (triumph of hope over experience). The other thing my grandparents had in common was that when in funds and in drink they tended to come home with musical instruments they had bought off "a man in a pub". My mother remembers an accordian (which she could play, being an amateur pianist) and a set of bagpipes which she tried...My father remembers an "American organ", harmonium, various banjos etc. Whent they were out of work, often in the '20s and 30s, the instruments were sold on. And now to another thread- the only one I inherited was an italian mandolin, but it had been in the attic so long the glue had dried out. When we bought strings for it ( I would be about 10 or 11 and getting into skiffle) it disintegrated when we tried to tune it, the strips of wood of the "bowl" all came apart. So I never learned an instrument and the world was saved from cacophany: I can empty a room with flat singing, sharp whistling and my kazoo anyway. I met another West Midlander on holiday in the Caribbean last year and embarrassed our wives and mystified the other guests and staff by exchanging Enoch & Eli stories!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 07:48 PM

I'm still here, been working on it! Titles are
Wednesbury Cocking
Wedgebury Cocking
Come all yew blaids what's married
Twice tried, twice hung, twice buried
Poem - Our Eynuch
Darlaston Dog Fight
Jolly Joe the Collier's Son
I CAN'T FIND BRUMMAGEM (this one's in the database already)(I don't mean I can't find it, that's part of the title!:-))
Song on a Desperate Boxing Match
I will post all these along with the ABCs, and an update of the chaotic yard situation, in a few days.
Yours under pressure, Jo


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 11:36 PM

Sam Charters first early book, COUNTRY BLUES, was all about this topic. Blind Lemon, Lightnin', all of the greats. Their songs fit in here nicely.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Ian HP
Date: 13 Feb 99 - 05:15 AM

I am from Dudley in the Black Country originally, now a few miles down the road in Wolverhampton. I never thought I'd see the Black Country on a thread! Wonderful. Don't forget the wonderful LP of Cecilia Costello by the BBC (from whom The Grey Cock was collected). 'The Wide Midlands' is also worth a listen. I agree that the amount and quality of collecting in our area falls well below what one would hope, historically. Steve, are you the Steve Parkes who used to do comedy and knows Dave Goode? Cheers


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Dr John
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 10:44 AM

1. Black Country songs. Jon Raven recorded several albums of Black Country songs in the seventies, mostly on his Broadside Label but unfortunately most of these are no longer available but can be obtained from second hand sources (try Rockinworld) but probably at a fairly high price. He says he may consider rereleasing them on CD in the future. With his brother Mike and Derek Craft he formed the "Black Country Three" which I think made one LP and one EP. The LP is still available on cassette from Mike Raven, Yew Tree Cottage, Jug Bank, Ashley, Market Drayton, Shropshire, TF9 4NJ England. He has a catalogue of other material too. He loves to hear from people who are interested in his music: he's a first rate guitarist and a good friend of Nic Jones. 2. Black county songs. An interesting subject. What is actually meant by "country" songs? If it's sort of folk music I'd be interested to hear opinions of the cross over between Black and White music. I suspect there is more than is generally thought. We think of Black music as mainly (but not entirely - witness Lead Belly) as the Blues possibly because other forms were not recorded (wouldn't sell?) but there is an awful lot of previously unknown White blues which is now coming to light via the Document label. A P Carter was accompanied by a Black musician when he collected his material. Perhaps this gives folk music USA its richness which other musics don't seem to have.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 12:57 PM

TO: ART THIEME

You're right, Art. Blind Lemon and Lightin' fit in very well here.

I have a great picture of Blind Lemon and Leadbelly taken about 1954 on the top deck of a Birmingham Corporation tram (#64 - Erdington) crossing over Salford Bridge just about to ascend Gravelly Hill. My mother is the conductor. My father was a driver for the Midland Red and it was his day off... busman's holiday, you know.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 03:42 AM

My mother was born on the same day as Leadbelly - 29 January. She was 110 this year.

Ian - noe, I'm not that Steve Parkes, although I am noted for my humorous side (ask my mother). I do know of two or three other SPs in the Midlands, though, two of which worked in the steel business in the 70s at the same time I did. I'm actually the SP who sang at the Fitter's Arms in Walsall and partnered Barrie Roberts for several years, knows Cosmotheka, and once had supper with Barbara Dickson at the Happy Gathering in Birmingham.

Steve


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Subject: An apology ...
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 04:21 AM

Sorry, everyone: my mom says to tell you that she is NOT 110, and that I'm not too big for a clip round the ear. Sorry mom.

Steve (from the doghouse)


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 07:42 AM

... and when I say "partnered Barrie Roberts", I mean I used to sing top harmony with him. Yeucch!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 06:15 PM

Nearly there. Will post the songs tomorrow night.
Yard now covered in tractor ruts and mud & more mud, the geese think it's wonderful. The new roof looks lovely though.
Yours under pressure
Jo
PS How do you do those indefinite pause things (can't remember what they're properly called) in ABC - looks like a sideways parenthesis with a dot beneath?


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 07:01 PM

Hi Steve!

I looked at The Wide Midlands LP yesterday. It has 2 recitations, 2 modern songs and the rest, I recall, is traditional music. The disc number is 12TS210.

All the best,
Dan Milner


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 03:22 AM

Thanks Dan, I'll try and get hold of a copy. Meanwhile, I'm on the edge of my seat, Jo. Good news about the geese, though.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 03:43 AM

Just found another Black Country link by chance; click here to see some examples of BC humour.

Steve

P.S. I dare say someone can offer a translation if required!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Pete M
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 02:53 PM

Thanks Steve, best laugh for ages!

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 17 Feb 99 - 08:23 PM

Get back on your seat Steve, having probs with ABCs! Will get there by tomorrow. Geese are still happy.
Jo


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 03:02 PM

Jo, they're called fermatas.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:13 PM

What are? Geese? Sorry? Me brain's all addled, bay, carn unnerstand ee. (That's not Black Country, our U.S. friends, it's West Country - quite a different thing). STAND BY!!!!!
Jo


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Subject: SONGBOOK: Folk Songs of the Black Country
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:14 PM

Here are the songs, poem and text from 'Folk Songs of the Black Country' as promised above. I've split the information into 9 bits, and written out the ABCs. Some of these do not sound quite right, but with the exception of one, for which I have also done an ABC of my own interpretation, they are transcribed exactly as in the booklet. My comments are in blue (I hope I got all the HTML right!), the other notes are all as written in the booklet. Here's the first bit, the foreword and introduction. Only one song is not included here, as it's already in the DT. (See above).(No, further above!) FOREWORD

In my work as Tutor Organiser in South Staffordshire for the Worker's' Educational Association I have repeatedly come into contact with men and women who preserve many of the traditions of the Black Country. From them I have collected rhymes, songs and stories which illustrate the harsh history of the transition of this area from an agricultural to an industrial community. Other collectors such as Mr. Tom Langley whose broadcasts have done much to encourage interest in the traditions of the Black Country, have placed their own material at my disposal and have, therefore, helped me to build up a more representative collection. These oral traditions can be readily supplemented by local material preserved in the broadsheets and other transitory publications of the last century.

The material so collected is almost unknown to people outside the Black Country and often to those living in the area itself. It is my ambition to see this material made easily available for the entertainment and education of all who wish to understand something of the social life of the people of the Black Country in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. It is also important that this tradition should be a living one, and in this work the co-operation of the Black Country Three in setting to music and performing these poems and ballads is invaluable. We hope that by the publication and performance of these local songs we may encourage a wider understanding of Black Country traditions and also induce others to attempt to portray events of our own times in a similar manner.

The work of collecting these traditional poems can only he done with the co-operation of the people of the Black Country. We therefore appeal to all readers who know of any local rhymes however fragmentary, to contact me at 98, Bescot Road, Walsall, Staffs, (Tel: Walsall 27989). All contributions will be gratefully acknowledged. Suggestions and enquiries concerning this series may also be made to this address or to the Wolverhampton Folk Song Club, The Queen's Hotel, Wolverhampton.

Dr John M. Fletcher


INTRODUCTION

The songs chosen for this first book of Black Country Songs are those which are currently being sung by the Black Country Three in their Sunday night session at the Queen 's Hotel , Wolverhampton.

Since tunes for the songs were not available well known folk tunes have been used or a tune has been composed. We hope that these tunes will be in keeping with the general style of the songs. While tunes and arrangements are suggested they are not meant to he hard and fast. Some may wish to sing the songs in their original form or with a different arrangement. It is for this reason that we have included one song, Jolly Joe the Co1lier's Son, without suggesting an arrangement.

Whether the songs are good examples of folk song or not will depend on how each individual judges the merits of a folk song. One point is certain - they are part of the Black Country heritage and as such they deserve a greater place in our local folk music than they aspire to at present.

Much work has been done by individuals and organisations on the collection of folk songs but little has been published of Black Country folk song. Dr. Fletcher, Charles Parker and others have accomplished valuable work in collecting and making known the collected material and we hope that this brief selection of songs will show that others have been fired by their enthusiasm.

We would like to acknowledge the help we have received, in obtaining this material, from Dr. John Fletcher of Walsall, Mr. Derek Cherrington of Great Wyrley, Miss Dawtry of Tettenhall and the Birmingham Reference Library. Our thanks also to club members, who have made this venture financially possible.

J. Raven
M. Raven
January l965.


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: Wednesbury Cocking^^
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:15 PM

Here's the first song. Everything (including notes) as written in the booklet. I hereby absolve myself from having anything to do with the subject matter!


Wednesbury Cocking

Wednesbury - (Wedgebury) Cocking Notes -
From an early C19th Broadsbeet - the original sheet can be seen in Birmingham Reference Library. The chorus, line endings of 'me lads' and the tune were added by M. Raven. The version sung by the Black Country Three omits verses 3,4,5,6 ,7,8, & 12, The six main story verses and the chorus will then make a more manageable unit. All letter omissions appear as in the original. A revised version of this song is in existence, enquiries regarding this version should be sent to Dr. Fletcher. For further information regarding this song see J.F. Ede, History of Wednesbury.

1.At Wednesbury there was a cocking,
A match between Newton and Scroggins.
The Collers and Nailors left work,
And all to old Spittles went jogging.
To see this noble sport, me lads,
Many noble men resorted.
And though they'd little of money, me lads,
With that they freely sported.

Chorus -
Oh it's off to the fight cried Bill Cartwright,
And it's off to the fight cried he.
Oh it's off to the fight cried Bill Cartwright,
And it's off to the fight cried he.

2.There was Jeffory & Oldborn from Hampton*
And Dusty from Bilston was there,
Plummery he came from Darlaston,
And he was as rude as a bear.
Old Will he came from Walsall, me lads,
And Smacker from West Brom. come.
Blind Robin he came from Rowley, me lads,
And staggering he went whum (home)

*Wolverhampton

3. Ralph Moody come hobbling along,
As though he some cripple was mocking.
To join in the black-guard throng,
That met at Wednesbury Cocking.
He borrowed a trifle of Doll*, me lads,
To back old Taverner's grey,
He laid fourpence half-penny to fourpence, me lads,
Then lost and went broken away.

*Possibly a woman friend

4. But soon he returned to the pit,
For he'd borrowed a trifle of money,
And ventured another large bet,
Along with blobber mouth Coney.
Then Coney demanded his money, me lads,
Which is common on all such occasions,
He cry'd blast thee if thee don't bold thy peace, me lads
I'll pay thee as Paul paid the Ephesians.

5. Scroggins' breeches were made o' nankeen,
And wore very thin in the groin,
In stooping to handle his cock,
His bollocks burst out behind,
Besides his shirt tail was beshit, me lads1
Which caused among them much laughter,
Scroggins turned himself round in a pet, me lads,
And cried bugger ye what's the matter.

6. The morning's sport being over,
Old Spittle a dinner proclaimed,
Each man he should dine for a groat.
If be grumbled he ought to be damned,
For there was plenty of beef, me lads,
But Spittle he swore by his troth,
That never a man should dine, me lads,
Till he'd eaten his noggin of broth.

7. The beef it was old and tough,
Of a bull that was baited to death,
Barney Hide got a lump in his throat,
That had liked to have stopp'd his breath.
The company all fell into confusion, me lads,
At seeing poor Barney Hide choaked,
They took him into the kitchen, me lads,
And held his head over the smoke.

8. They held him so close to the fire,
He frizzled just like a beef steak,
Then threw him down on the floor,
Which had like to have broken his neck.
One gave him a kick in the stomach, me lads,
Another a kick on the brow,
His wife said throw him into the stable , me lads,
And he will be better just now.

9. Then they all returned to the pit,
And the fighting went forward again,
Six battles were fought on each side,
And the next to decide the *main.
For they were two famous cocks, me lads,
As ever this country bred,
Scroggins a duck-winged black, me lads,
And Newton's a shift-wing red.

*main - match

10. The conflict was hard on both sides,
Till brassy winged black's was choaked,
The colliers were nationally vexed,
And the nailors were sorely provoked.
Peter Stephens he swore a great oath me lads,
That Scroggins had played his cock foul,
Scroggins he gave him a kick, me lads,
And cried God damn ye soul.

11. The company then fell in a discord,
A bold fight did ensue,
Kick bugger and bite was the word,
Till the Walsall men were subdued,
Ralph Moody* bit off a man's nose, me lads,
And wish't that he could have him slain,
So they trampled him to death me lads,
And they made a draw of the main.

* Ralph Moody. Moses Whitehouse who kept the recently demolished Mine Borer's Arms in Darlaston was known as Ruff Noey because of his fighting reputation. This name was changed to Ralph Moody by later writers.

12. The cock pit was near to the church,
An ornament unto the town,
On one side was an old coal pit,
The other well gors'd around.
Peter Hadley peep'd through the gorse, me lads,
In order to see them fight,
Spittle jobb'd his eye out with a fork, me lads,
And said blast thee it serves thee right.

13. Some people may think this is strange,
Who Wednesbury never knew,
But those who have ever been there,
Won't have the least doubt but it's true.
For they are savage by nature, me lads,
And guilty of deeds most shocking,
Jack Baker he wacked his own father, me lads,
And so ended Wednesbury cocking.


And here's the tune:
G2"C"|c2c ccc|ce4e|"G7"ddd ded|"C"dc4e|eee eee|eg4g|"G7"f2f/2f/2 fgf|"C" fe4c|"F"a2a a2a|"C"e2c c2c/2c/2|"F"a2a a2a|"C"gc4c|"F"a2a aaa|"C"gcc c2e|"G7 "d2ed2e|"C"d2eg2e|ccc (cd)e|"F"f2ga2 a/2a/2|"C"eee "G7"d2d|"C"c2z


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: Wedgebury Cocking - Black Country
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:16 PM

Here's the second song. All notes as in the booklet.
Wedgebury Cocking

Notes - As sung by Miss Dawtry of Tettenhall. This collected version (J.R. 1964) was passed down from Miss Dawtry's grandfather. He employed young women in his Blacksmith's shop near the Ring O'Bells in Churchfields, West Bromwich, and he learned the song from them. Miss Dawtry's version is of six verses (four lines per verse) each of which occurs in the broadsheet version. We have omitted them since the important points in this version are the tune and the chorus.

Bunny Hide got a lump in his throat
As was like to have stopped his breath
The beef it was old and tough
Off a bull that was baited to death

Ril-fol-did-dy Rol-did-dy Fol-did-dy Rol-did-dy
Fol-did-dy Rol-did-dy eh-yah


Here's the tune, as written in the book - looks very odd - only 2 bar lines & no obvious rhythm - make of it what you will, I'm just copying! :-)
dddaaaaaa2|ag^fdd^c^cd2|ddaaaaa2ag^fdde^c^cd2a2 d/2d/2d/2 d/2d/2d/2 dddde^fAAAABcd2d2|
Hmm - thought I might suggest this instead:
(d/2d/2)|daa|aaa|a3-|az(a/2g/2)|fdd|c2c|d3-|dzd|daa|a2a|a3-|aza/2g/2|fdd|ecc|d3-|dza| d2(d/2d/2)|d2(d/2d/2)|ddd|def|AAA|ABc|d3|d2|


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Subject: ADD: Come all yew blaids what's mariyed
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:17 PM

Here's the third song. All notes as in booklet.


Come all yew blaids what's mariyed

Notes - As sung by Miss Dawtry of Tettenhall. This collected fragment (J.R. 1964) has also been passed down through Miss Dawtry's family.

The tune is a very beautiful one and it is possible that the originator of the song borrowed the tune from elsewhere. The pauses marked, Miss Dawtry says, were often quite long and the singer would use them for dramatic effect and to see how his audience was reacting to the song.

Come all ye blaids what's mariyed (pause)
And yew shun hear a tale
Of what befell poor Jimmy Vight
He died last night, he'd never died afore (pause)
For he did ate some sheep's yed brath*
And he did fall stiff, stark, stone jed
Under the table, och!

*Sheep's head broth

Ri-too-ler-oo-ler-oo Ri-too-ler-oo


And the tune (the rests that look like 7's should have that indefinite length symbol over them but I couldn't work out how to do those...no bar lines in the original):
CFG_A2F((3G/2F/2G/2)C2z/2CFG_A_Bc_B_AGF2CFG_A2 F/2G/2F/2 GC2CFG_A_Bc2z/2|!CFG/2_A/2FGFGC2CFG_A_Bc_B_A2G/2A/2G/2FFF2CFG_A_Bc2_BG_AF2


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Subject: Lyr/TuneAdd: Twice Tried Twice Hung Twice Buried^^
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:18 PM

Here's the fourth song. Notes as in booklet.
Twice tried, twice hung, twice buried.

Notes - The material for this song, written by J. Raven, was obtained from Mr. Derek Cherrington, of Great Wyrley, Cannock.
Booth, an infamous forger, lived on Squire Gough's Farm at Perry Hall (now known as Booth's Farm). A tunnel was supposed to lead from the farm to the Hare and Hounds at West Bromwich where he transacted his business.
Suspected of two murders and tried for a third he was finally caught while attempting to burn the evidence of forgery and was tried and sentenced to death at Stafford Assize in 1812. The executioner bungled and Booth had to be revived and was hung again two hours later. After burial the Staffordshire/Warwickshire boundary was altered and Booth's remains dug up and re-buried in the right county. Twice tried, twice hung, twice buried was the reputation he earned for himself.

The above story came to light in 1956 when Mr. Cherrington discovered a hoard of coins in the garden fo his Birmingham, Perry Bar, home and took them to Birmingham Museum. The remaining coin is in Mr. Cherrington's possession.

Sing the verses to the tune of The Greenland Whale Fishery. Sing the chorus to the tune of MacPhersons lament.

1.At West Brom's Hare & Hounds they say,
William Booth his men did meet,
In counterfeit and forgery pay,
To the Walsall bank's defeat, me lads,
To the Walsall bank's defeat.

Chorus:
Twice tried, twice hung, twice buried,
Was Booth of Perry Barr.
Repeat Chorus.

2. His brother's life and a pedlar's too
Some swore he took away,
Then tried he was for a murder new,
But the evidence held no sway, me lads,
But the evidence held no sway.

3. Dragoons full seven and specials ten,
Rode to the Hare & Hounds,
Where Booth with forgeries was ta'en,
And carried from the grounds, me lads,
And carried from the grounds.

4. At Stafford court he was arraigned
And there condemned on high,
The noose around his neck was ranged,
But Booth refused to die, me lads,
But Booth refused to die.

5. Revived and hung just two hours gone
Booth to his grave was ta'en.
Oh! There to lie but for a while,
Till the boundary line was changed, me lads,
Till the boundary line was changed.


And here's the tune:
G|"C"c2c2e3c|"G7"d2(ed)"C"c2de|"F"f2f2"C"e2(dc)|"G7"d6ef|"C"g2e2c2de|"F"fedcA4-|A6cd|"C"e2g2"G7"fed2|"C"c2A2"G7"G2GG|"C"e2g2"G7"fed2|"C"c6|G|"C" c3cc3c|"G7"(d3cd2)(ed)|"C"c3c(e2g2)|"F"a6a2|"C"g3e2e2c|"G7"d3cd2( ed)|"C"c2c2"F"(A3c)"C"c6z


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Subject: ADD: Our Eynuch - Black Country Song
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:19 PM

Here's the fifth item (poem)- don't ask me to translate! Notes as in booklet.
Our Eynuch.

Notes -
This classic poem from Dr. Fletcher's collection needs no introduction.

Our Eyrnich bay quite jed,
Nor never wull be,
O'd Eynuch bay fergot
Nor niver con be.
Tek a sank around Blackheath,
Or down the tump an in't o'd 'Ills
Stond annunst the cross fer 'arf -an-hour
Just t'watch the Folken all goo by.
Yoh'll see 'im theer as big as life,
O'd Eynuch, our Eynuch.

Our Eynuch left is mark,
Yoh can't mistaike et, see?
Is ommer prints bin 'ere
An always wull be.
Just look in all the nailshops,
If some hey the'er, that meks no odds.
See that ooman scruven up the gledes?
That's 'er wot fashions all the nails,
Yoh'll bet 'er mon bay fer away,
O'd Eynuch, our Eynuch.

Our Eynuch med big chains
(Is ooman med the small).
See them the'er big anchors?
Eynuch med um all.
In Cradley Heath yoh'll find 'im
Around any chain shop in the day,
Or if it's night look in the pubs
(Yoh'll seem urn nustled 'gainst the cherch)
O'd Eynuch, our Eynuch.

No Eynuch bay quite jed,
Nor he never wull be.
O'd Eynuch bay fergot,
Nor never con be,
'Ast ever sid a Jews 'Arp?
'E med um all be Rowley Cherch.
Stand atop Hawes Hill an look a'down
See all them lights annunst the cut,
He used to puddle iron theer
O'd Eynuch, our Eynuch.


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: The Dog Fight (Darlaston)^^
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM

Here's the sixth song. Notes as in booklet.
The Dog Fight (Darlaston).

Notes - From Dr. Fletcher's collection of Black Country songs. The chorus and the tune were added by M. Raven. The version sung by the Black Country Three omits verses 3, 7 and 10.The first two lines in verse 5 are joined with the last two lines of verse 6 to make one verse. As in the Wednesbury Cocking, the omissions and the addition of a chorus are effected to make a more manageable unit.

1.Down Sewerage Street where the smell ain't so sweet,
Ruff Moey* f1opped down on his flat bottomed feet,
And under his arm the Pride of 'Em All,
The bitch as could bite a bolt hole through a wall.

*See notes on Moses Whitehouse, first song.

Chorus -
And it's down, down, down, down they will go,
The Queen and the Pride together will go.

2.And back of the Bull Stake by Darlaston Green,
Ben Bates brought his bitch the Willenhall Queen,
The Queen had a mouth like a shark with the yaws,
And God help the dog as got stuck in her jaws.

3.At scratch on the sewer a hundred were stood,
They'd all backed their fancy and thirsted for blood.
They backed with the bookie each bitch at odds on,
No matter who lost he knew he had won.

4.The lickers* licked hard and they licked very well,
They d'aint missed a hair on them dogs - you can tell,
A tot or two more and instead of a dog
They'd have licked all the spikes on a spavined hedgehog.

*The lickers were special officials who checked the dogs for concealed spikes, poison, etc.

5.Old Reuben made referee of the match,
The Pride and the Queen was brought up to scratch,
The bell for the start the timekeeper smote,
And both of them dogs went for each others throat.

6.The Queen missed the Pride and Ben Bates shed a tear,
The Pride missed the Queen with a snap you could hear.
Five minutes went by without sign of a bite,
It was more like a dance than a fighting dog fight.

7.Ruff cursed for a coward the Pride of 'Em All,
The Pride seemed too drunk to be bothered at all.
And as for the Queen, Ben Bates hung his head,
And cried to the crowd to say prayers for the dead.

8.Then into the pit jumped Ruff Mo with a roar,
He fell on his face and lay flat on the floor,
And then he found out why them dogs wouldn't bite,
Sewer gas in the pit they was too drugged to fight.

9.Ruff Mo had a lungful and d'aint feel to well,
He bit at them dogs - they bit back, you can tell,
The Queen had a bite that took half of his ear,
The Pride had a mouthful of ham off his rear.

10.No matter how Ruff urged them dogs on to fight,
They both was too drugged and too b-----d to bite.
He kicked at the Queen which collapsed on the floor,
She kicked at Ruff where his backside was sore.

11.Them dogs at each other could not point a paw,
And Reuben declared that the match was a draw.
The bookmaker blarted - he had to pay back,
The money he thought was his own in the sack.

12.That fight was the last by Ben Bates and his Queen,
Broken hearted they died in the pub by the Green,
Ruff Moey has never been able to shit,
The same as afore he got bit in the pit.


And here's the tune:G2|"C"cc3c2|e2e2e2|"G7"d2c3d|"C"c4e2|ee3e2|g2g2g2|"G7"f2e2f2|e4g2|"F"a2f2a2|c'4a2|"C"g2e2g2|"Em"'b6-|'b4e2|"C"ce3g2|g3ec2|"G7"d2e2d2|"C"c2g2e2|c 6-|c6|"F"f6-|f6|"C"g6-|g6|"G7"d2e2d2|c4e2|"F"f2a2f2|"C"e4e2|"G7"dc3d2|"C"c4


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Subject: Lyr Add: Jolly Joe the Collier's Son^^
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:21 PM

Here's the seventh song. Notes as in booklet.
Jolly Joe the Collier's Son.

Notes -
From an early C19th Broadsheet - the original sheet can be seen in Birmingham Reference Library.
The song is printed in its original form without chorus or suggested verse omissions. Selection of a tune will depend on the singer's interpretation of the song. It could be considered tragic or light-hearted. In the former case the tune of Mary Hamilton (also called the Four Marys) will fit the song if each verse is divided into two. In the latter case the tune of North Country is a useful one.

1. I am Jolly Joe the collier's son,
Near Oldbury town I dwell,
I courted lasses many one,
And Lov'd them all right well:
I courted Nancy & young Kate,
And buxom young Nelly too,
But Rachael is the girl I adore,
And that you soon shall know.

2. Come all you colliers in this row,
Who delight in a bonny lass,
Who loves to drink good ale that's brown,
And sparkles in the glass:
My parents they do frown on me,
And say I am to blame,
For keeping Rachael's company,
Who liveth in Mash-Lane

3. When I rose up one morning,
At the dawning of the day,
I like to hear the small birds sing,
See the lambs to skip and play:
I took a walk to Oldbury town,
Round by the Bilston Hill,
And there I spied my own true love,
With Jack of Armlow mill.

4. I hid myself behind a shade,
A distance from whence they came,
He gave her kisses one, two, three,
Not knowing I was there:
I boldly stepped up to them,
Saying rogue what hast thou done?
I am Jolly Joe the collier's son,
So you must either fight or run.

5. Hold your hand, dear Joe, she said,
And no more of that let's have,
I will be thy servant, slave and wife,
Till we both go to one grave:
Then to the church young Rachael went,
Right sore against her will,
So maidens all pity my downfall,
By Jack of Armlow mill.


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: A Desperate Boxing Match^^
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:22 PM

The eighth song, "I CAN'T FIND BRUMMAGEM" is in the DT. Here is the ninth - all notes as in the booklet.
Song, on a Desperate Boxing Match: fought between
Henry Griffiths of Birmingham
and
Benjamin Baylis of Wednesbury
near the town of Sutton
On Tuesday, October the 15th, 1816


Notes - from a C19th Broadsheet - the original sheet can be seen in Birmingham Reference Library.


I. For staunch and firm bottom there never was known
A contest more worthy of fame and renown.
Than one fought 'tween Griffiths and Baylis, of late,
On conquest both bent and for vict'ry elate.

Chorus:And it's come, all ye who listen to me
And never to scorn of the Black Country.

2. October the fifteenth at one in the day,
Began this most bloody and terrible fray,
Determin'd they both were on ent'ring the field,
To forfeit their lives before ever they'd yield.

3.Two hundred and thirteen hard rounds were display'd,
Not one nor the other e'er once seemed afraid;
For more than four hours did the contest prevail,
And vict'ry, o'er both, still held level her scale.

4. No shuffling ner tricks, ner a moment's delay,
Of cowardice once gave the smallest display;
For half minute rests were all the rests giv'n,
To such severe fighting the contest was driv'n.

5. The seconds and urnpires unable to say,
On which side the contest the victory lay,
Declar'd a drawn battle, as th'only sure road,
To stop the two heroes from shedding more blood.

6. May Birmingham and Wednesb'ry henceforth agree,
And friends their inhabitants evermore be;
When they meet, be they social and pleasant inclin'd,
And give their old grievances all to the wind.


And here's the tune:
F2|"A"C2E2E2|FE3E2|"D"c B3A2|"A"E6-|E4E2|"E"B2B2B2|B2A2B2|"A"c2c3B|A6-|A 4E 2|C2E2E2|F2E3E|"D"cB3A2|"A"E6-|E4E2|"E"B2B2B2|B2A2B2|"A"c2c3B|A2A2F2|"E" E 6|G6|d4E2|G4B2|"A"A2A2F2|E4E2|"A"cc4c|"E7"d2B2G2|"D"A2A3A|"A"A4|


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:23 PM

Whew!!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 12:33 PM

Well Done! *virtual thunderous applause*

MMario


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM

Whew? Wow!

Fermatas are those sideways-parenthesis hold signs. I was hoping that once you knew the name, you could look them up easily on the abc standard Web page. Imagine my surprise when I found they're not there.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 10:29 AM

Just got back - wow - utterly brill! Thanks Jo, yo'm a bostin' wench - will yo marry us?

Steve

Oh, sorry, I've just remembered I'm married already (but watch this space!), but I'm sending you a big bottle of industrial strength Oil of Ulay for those smoking fingertips, just as soon as I can work out how to get it on my scanner.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 22 Feb 99 - 06:04 PM

Cheers Steve, yes I would if you weren't and if I weren't also, damned inconvenient isn't it? ;-)
Anyone know the answer to the, ahem, fermata problem?
The other ABC prob was the sign to indicate a dotted note & a little one next to it, HTML thought it was an unrecognised tag. These <<< with any of the ones going the other way afterwards wouldn't work. Solved that one by altering the default note length, lengthening the note and adjusting the tempo. Jo


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 03:19 AM

Anyone know how to get Oil of Ulay off a scanner?

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 23 Feb 99 - 05:18 PM

Oooh Steve, young man, I think baby oil's better! STOP! We'll get told off. And we're not married (to each other) yet.
Jo xxx


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 03:23 AM

Thanks for the young, Jo! And I think you're right; it's chea more economical as well. I've got to go and have a cold shower now.

Steve

P.S. I dreamt about geese last night ...


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 08:47 AM

Sorry if this is extending this thread beyond its sustainable life but does anyone have the words to a West Midlands version of "Jack of all trades"? Possibly from the Ian Campbell Group (Birmingham's own Scots!). The usual "Gypsy Jack of all trades" (Ewan McColl etc) tune but with places and industries based on Birmingham (City of a thousand trades) and the Black Country. There was also a London version, possibly by the Critics of "Sweet Thames Flow Softly" fame.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 11:35 AM

Funny you should ask, Roger. Let me refer you to this thread: Lyr req: Come on lads and bring your toolbag . Oh - no, I don't have the words!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 24 Feb 99 - 11:44 AM

Thanks Steve, the reference to the Jug o' Punch stirred memories of 196something when I worked in the old Birmingham Central library and several of my colleagues were regular attendees at the JoP. I've always been more of a jazz/blues fan with a sideline interest in folk so I never went, tho' I have some Campbell LPs in my varied collection, (everything from piano rolls to CDs tho' the kazoo and player piano are my only instruments!). Apart from visiting my father in Erdington (the reference to the no64 tram on this thread was of interest!) I nevr get back to the old town now as I've lived away for 30+ years.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 25 Feb 99 - 03:12 AM

Don't blame you, Roger!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 06:26 AM

Belated thanks to Dr John for the contact details of Mike Raven. I've been in touch and ordered some recordings off him. I've tried to get him interested in the Mudcat- his anecdotes of his interesting life might find a ready audience here!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 08:20 AM

MIke Raven, ex-Black Country Three, has a home page at:
Click here
Song books and recordings still available.


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 08:33 AM

Hmmm. Well that was the webpage printed in his literature but I get an error message from virgin.net!
Confused (formerly) of Birmingham


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: GUEST,STEVE
Date: 08 Jun 17 - 10:25 AM

I have a CD of Dave Goode "Barking Mad" 1998 LIVE GIG
very funny indeed, I was the best Man at his eldest Daughters wedding. Pleasure to have known him

email smandy0765@aol.com if you want the MP3


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 09 Jun 17 - 05:21 AM

Another Lazarus thread. Who was that zimmer guy?

RtS


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 09 Jun 17 - 06:06 AM

Very good question. I'm Irish but live in the Black Country and have performed here for many years. While I used to regularly hear BC songs in the 70's & 80's I hardly ever seem to hear them now and would love to learn one or two. I would reccomend BC Poet Billy Spakemon who has written and recorded several of his own BC songs. Just put a search in and he may be able to put you in the right direction


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jun 17 - 07:17 AM

makes you feel bloody old reading through this - nearly twenty years back and talking about stuff 20 years before that - and i knew 'em all!


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Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jun 17 - 05:54 AM

My BC song, an old Enoch & Eli joke made music.

mp3 plays, txt and pdf available.


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