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Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area

Related threads:
Where are all the black country songs? (70)
Black Country Men (28)
Black Country Dialect (30)
The Black Country - part of central England (4)


open mike 22 Oct 03 - 10:54 PM
GUEST,Boab 23 Oct 03 - 02:13 AM
open mike 23 Oct 03 - 02:36 AM
Herga Kitty 23 Oct 03 - 02:46 AM
GUEST 23 Oct 03 - 03:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Oct 03 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,ShelleyC at work 23 Oct 03 - 03:57 AM
Roger the Skiffler 23 Oct 03 - 04:11 AM
red max 23 Oct 03 - 05:18 AM
greg stephens 23 Oct 03 - 05:26 AM
Watson 23 Oct 03 - 05:57 AM
Leadfingers 23 Oct 03 - 06:21 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Oct 03 - 06:30 AM
greg stephens 23 Oct 03 - 06:36 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Oct 03 - 07:42 AM
jonm 23 Oct 03 - 07:47 AM
Peterr 23 Oct 03 - 07:50 AM
GUEST,Frug at work 23 Oct 03 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,Frug at work 23 Oct 03 - 08:51 AM
Roger the Skiffler 23 Oct 03 - 09:23 AM
Dave Bryant 23 Oct 03 - 09:56 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Oct 03 - 10:35 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Oct 03 - 10:52 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Oct 03 - 10:58 AM
open mike 23 Oct 03 - 02:41 PM
open mike 23 Oct 03 - 03:00 PM
Trevor 23 Oct 03 - 04:41 PM
Steve Parkes 24 Oct 03 - 04:03 AM
Roger the Skiffler 24 Oct 03 - 04:12 AM
Leadfingers 24 Oct 03 - 04:19 AM
Steve Parkes 24 Oct 03 - 05:31 AM
Leadfingers 24 Oct 03 - 06:12 AM
Watson 24 Oct 03 - 06:23 AM
Trevor 24 Oct 03 - 06:34 AM
Steve Parkes 24 Oct 03 - 06:58 AM
Trevor 24 Oct 03 - 09:27 AM
Steve Parkes 24 Oct 03 - 11:31 AM
Herga Kitty 24 Oct 03 - 03:10 PM
GUEST 25 Oct 03 - 06:53 AM
Long Firm Freddie 26 Oct 03 - 03:36 AM
Gurney 26 Oct 03 - 03:37 AM
Mr Red 26 Oct 03 - 09:57 AM
GUEST 22 Jul 11 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,Andy 22 Jul 11 - 03:07 PM
GUEST,Andy 22 Jul 11 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Andy 22 Jul 11 - 03:33 PM
Morris-ey 22 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: open mike
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 10:54 PM

Looking for a tune for a wedding that might remind
the groom of his home in England...in the area of
Birmingham, Wolver, Wewst Midlands, Dudley (sp??)
He says this area is known as the Black Country.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:13 AM

"Dirty Old Town"!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' ar
From: open mike
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:36 AM

also Walsall, that is west midlands


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:46 AM

The West Midlands include Birmingham, Dudley, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Wednesbury... The West Midlands Folk Federation has a website at www.wmff.org.uk.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' ar
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 03:12 AM

There's a nice Black Country song called "Wife for Sale" that John Raven (of Wolverhampton) used to do, but I suspect it might not be appropriate for your purpose :-)

There's also a Black Country version of Cushie Butterfield, but that might not work either.

Dirty Old Town is Salford (Manchester), but it might do nicely for you. It is at least in part a love song.

Anglo (who probably needs to reset his cookie)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 03:24 AM

The Brave Dudley Boys


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,ShelleyC at work
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 03:57 AM

There's an old music hall song called 'I can't find Brummagem' (old name for Birmingham). Lyrics are in the digitrad.
About someone who'd been away a long time and doesn't recognise the city any more.
Your groom certainly wouldn't reconise Brum if he hasn't been home for a while (even in the last three months!). The whole city centre has been re-developed. Some say for the better.

Shelley


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 04:11 AM

John Fitzpatrick (?), Jon Raven & brother Mike of the Halliard & Black Country Three probably know it if it exists. Try mikeraven@freefolk.com
I've got a copy of their Folk Lore and songs of the Black Country (vol 2) but this song doesn't appear to be in it.

RtS
(Brummagem born, exiled to Berkshire)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: red max
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 05:18 AM

Norton New Bell Wake


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' a
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 05:26 AM

Can't say I'm totallly up on the nuances of midlands life, but I think the Black Country is something separate from Birmingham, isnt it? Dudley and Wolverhampton, for example, I'm sure are black country, but I dont think Birmingham is. Any natives who could define the boundaries for us?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Watson
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 05:57 AM

You'll start an argument, Greg, if you say Wolverhampton is in the Black Country!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 06:21 AM

Birmingham is technically NOT in the black country as the Black Country is really the industrialised areas of Staffordshire.But that is just an old Brummie nitpicking.How about 'Birmingham Boys',a song
written for the opening of the B.C.N. I would also back the suggestion for 'Brave Dudley Boys'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 06:30 AM

No "technical" about it, Leadfingers!

Is there any irony, do you suppose, in this ex-BC lad moving to Bucks, while Roger, ex-Brummie, has moved to Berks? Answers on a postcard ...

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' a
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 06:36 AM

Well I am getting confused now. If Birmingham is not in the Balck Country, and Wolverhampton isnt either, where exactly is it?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 07:42 AM

Dudley, Netherton, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, West Bromwich ... and maybe Wolverhampton and Smethwick, or at least those parts that border the "real" Black Country towns. Have I missed any?

The one thing they are not well-known for is music and song. Too busy puddlin' or ommerin', I expect!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: jonm
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 07:47 AM

Michael Raven (link above) used to be in the Black Country Three. A 'best of' is now available direct from Michael, which includes various black country songs. The Boxing Match certainly refers to Wednesbury.

BTW, "Can't find Brummagem" is in Roy Palmer's 'A Touch on the Times.' To be truly pedantic, Brummagem isn't the old name for Birmingham, merely a corruption, as with "Lunnon" for London or "Glasgae" for Glasgow...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Peterr
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 07:50 AM

Norton New Bell Wake definitely not Black Country! red max - where did you hear the song? I've never heard anyone who didn't go to the old Redditch FC, sing it. Dick Brice of the Farriers put it together, and where I now live in Cornwall there are several bellringing songs done regularly. 'Norton' fits in well with the theme.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Frug at work
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 08:45 AM

WWW.thisistheblackcountry.co.uk

Also check out anything by Bill Caddick. Jon Raven is a good bet.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Frug at work
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 08:51 AM

Bill Caddicks album Rough Music centres on songs from and about Bilston which is Black Country. Norton new bell wake refers to Kings Norton which is (now) a suburb of Birmingham.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 09:23 AM

On re-reading this thread I see that it is not a specific wedding song that is sought (is that the sound of Roger barking [berking?] up the wrong tree again?). I could suggest the Dudley Canal Tunnel Song but the chorus "Push, Boys, Push" may be inappropriate for a wedding!
My other suggestion would be Birmingham Jack of All Trades which mentions all the trades the West Midlands was famous for. Tho' it is a bit long. I think (but haven't checked) both are in the DT. If not, pm me and I'll cut 'n' paste the words.

RtS
(always a bit of a berk -and the wife is from Bucks!))


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 09:56 AM

Well, since Bill Cadick's been mentioned you could always have "Narrow Lock Gates".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 10:35 AM

"Birmingham" = Birm ang ham, i.e. the settlement of Birm's people/family. By a process called metathesis, we get "Brum" for "Birm" (or "Burm") just as we have "bride" from "burd" ("maiden"), or (more prosaically) "aks" from "ask". The soft "G" version I'm not sure of ... Thomas de Quincey refers to "cheap brummagen [sic] substitutes" in his Confessions of an English Opium Eater in the early 19th century. I'll go and find out more ...

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 10:52 AM

Hmm ... doesn't seem to be more! "Brummagem" seems to have appeared in the 17th century. One site claims the Romans called it Bremeum, which is interesting,as it didn't exist before the Saxons (Birm and co) settled there. Counterfeit coining was a thriving industry for a long time (but better ones were made at Walsall!); exports include brummagem screwdrivers, brummagem spanners, Brummies (there's one in Berkshire) and the A5127 ("The greatest Thing to come out of Birmingham is the Chester-road", Dr Johnson; "Bollocks!", Dr Chinn).


What was the question again?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 10:58 AM

Brummagem: 'e'y'are!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' ar
From: open mike
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:41 PM

is it traditional to have fireworks and bonfires at this time of year?
We could never do that in calilfornia...the danger of starting forest fires is too great!

So I guess all of the Black Country (disputed?!) area is within the West Midlands territory?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' ar
From: open mike
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 03:00 PM

these are the links given in the black country news site:
dudley
halesowen
stourbridge

is this near to shropshire?
U.K. geography 101


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Trevor
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 04:41 PM

Hello mike. Just pm'd you with some stuff.
If anybody accuses THIS Smerrick kid of being a Brummie, theyd berre wotch aht! When I was born, Smethwick was Staffordshire. Border changes, and the blinkin' West Midlands Metropolitan County Connurbation Area Unitary Local Authority, or whatever it's called, do change a blokes 'eritage. (Although somebody did say to me the other day 'We ai Brummagem, we ai Black Country, wim jus' Smerrick!')

What was the question, Steve......?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 04:03 AM

Open Mike, yes -- it's long been a tradition here to have fireworks at this time of year to celebrate the Hindu festival of Diwali. As well as the fireworks, we have diwas, or naked-flame small oil-lamps in the windows to attract the luck-giving goddess into the house.You can tell which ones she's been to: they're the ones that didn't set the curtains alight and burn down. The rest of us stick to bonfires -- it's safer!

Trevor, I wouldn't dream of accusing a Smerrick lad of being brummie! Us ex-Staffordshire lads should stick together. (Did you know Handsworth was in Staffs until the 19th century?)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 04:12 AM

That's why the Staffordshire Knot was on the badge of Handsworth Grammar (my alma mater), of course, formerly the Bridge Trust School (but I won't bore you[!] with all that).

RtS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 04:19 AM

We were having Bonfire parties a long time before there were enough Indians resident here for the locals to notice Diwali, Remember remember the fifth of November, Gunpowder Treason and Plot,and the bonfires celebrate Guy Fawkes being executed.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 05:31 AM

Leadfingers, that's what we call irony in Staffordshire!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 06:12 AM

Steve I thought Staffordshire was Potteries,Iron was worked in Brum.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Watson
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 06:23 AM

Leadfingers - I was born in Sedgley, Staffordshire - nailmaking, no pottery... and nothing to do with Brum.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Trevor
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 06:34 AM

It was chain-making where my family hailed from.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 06:58 AM

South Staffs! Walsall: lorinery (metal parts for horse tack), leather-making and -working, iron-making; and ancilliary trades. (And coining: see above.) What about the rest of you guys? I know Matthew Boulton had a big works in Smethwick.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Trevor
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 09:27 AM

I think Chance was a big glass works wasn't it? Loads of kids from my old school went to work there. I also remember that Avery the scale makers had a plant down Sandwell way. Brum, of course, was a centre for silver jewellery.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 11:31 AM

Ian Campbell (let's get back to Folk!) was a silver engraver in his day job.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 03:10 PM

Do John Denny's songs count, as he's a Brummie? - though he has written Harry the Boat, which mentions chain from Cradeley Heath.

Kitty

PS open mike - Shropshire is rural West Midlands. Sort of adjacent to the Black Country.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 03 - 06:53 AM

West Bromwich - definately Black Country - was the centre for Spring Manufacturing. Still is to some extent.

As they sing at the Hawthorns - Way daw cum from Bermingum.

Back to the request for songs you could try the Black Country Museum

www.bclm.co.uk

And John Raven had a number of good candidates - Was one

The lady Chain (or was it nail) makers have all gone on strike
The gaffer he thinks he can pay what he likes

Memory of words is a bit hazy can anyone help ?

IF anything I would say the Black Country is better off with monologues and Enoch and Eli jokes .. There that should start something !

Andrew


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 26 Oct 03 - 03:36 AM

I think Dudley Matty Groves would go down very well - you'd need an ear for the accent, though!

It's in this thread: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=53586

LFF


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Gurney
Date: 26 Oct 03 - 03:37 AM

On the original question..
There is/was a LP called 'The Wide Midlands' that contains a song 'When shall we get married, John?' which may be humourously suitable, particularly if they have been together long.

On 'Brum:' there is no Birmingham in the Doomsday Book, but there is a village of Brymwitcham, in the appropriate area.
I'm not sure of the spelling, it is 40 years since I looked it up, but I was wondering then why everyone in the midlands says "Brum."

Not Black Country myself, but Nuneaton is not far away. Kiwi nowadays, though.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Oct 03 - 09:57 AM

Wasn't it Dr Johnson who said of Wednesbury (et al) it was Black by Day and red by night. Foundary fires and smoke refer. That is the origin of the term Black Country.
FWIW Walsall was never considered Black because the leather trade was clean (by comparison), now how come we haven't mentioned Willenhall (lock trade) Darlaston (for nuts, screws, washers and bolts - cue joke) Gornal, Warley (did I miss any out?)
Moxley & Cosely are now part of (the City?????) Wolverhampton and by virtue of that (and no other reason) Wolverhampton is grudgingly allowed membership.

FWIW (and to risk aver more contention) Dudley was traditionally in Worcestershire.

openmike

Back on Topic try looking at some of my songs on the Black country, specifically (1) an Enoch and Eli song - Cud Ave Bin Wus and (2) a lost homeland song in the style of (uses same tune) Galway Bay about Wednesbury - Hall Green Way and (3) a Foundary man's shanty about a foreman coremekker in Darlaston Push on the Shovel
Wednesbury is (as your friend will tell you) the dead centre of civilization - the very dead centre! Songs Page

Guess my home town.

Anyone remember Bughole Bridge? Aptly placed in the back-end of Darlo.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:01 PM

Wolverhampton Library have a large collection of Books by the Ravens and their CD song form the Black country I believe that Amazon also has copys of these books and CDs


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:07 PM

There are lots of Black Country Folk Clubs and we not only perform Traditional Black Country songs but we have lots of singer/songwriters and bands that perform their own songs about the black country some in the traditional dialect so with only a bit ( as if you are not native it's a bit hard to understand) I myself perform a mixture of my own songs Traditional, and songs by people I admire, but it is out there if you look for it


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:26 PM

I'm from Bilston, and you're right that Wolverhampton was not considered to be a part of the Black country but now claims to be the Capital of the Black country much to the Chagrin of Black country locals, Bilston is always being tied in with Wolverhampton Bilston Folk Hate this.
The saying Black in the Day and Red at night actually comes from the foundries that stretched all the way from Dudley through Tipton Coseley Bilston and Wednesbury the Biggest Foundry being the Spring vale Foundry in Bilston nicknamed Big Lizzy on dark winter night when I was a lad you could really see that thing glow Bright red in the dark and in my eyes looked quite beautiful, in fact when the Foundry was closed ad blown up in 1980 I found it quite difficult to sleep with out the clanging of the steam hammers and the coming and going of the coal trains. There are lots of legends as to why its called the Black country,the Black in the Day red at night was always a popular saying around here in the heavy industrial period, a more amusing tale is that when Queen Victoria passed through here on a visit she glanced through the window of her coach complained that every thing was so dark and black with smoke she closed the curtains so the view didn't offend her.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:33 PM

The Black Country traditionally follows the coal seam and Cannock was also counted as part of the Black country even though it's on the Staffordshire Black country Border


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs from England 'Black Country' area
From: Morris-ey
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM

Wiki has it pretty much right for a change. The Black Country: Bilston, Blackheath, Brierley Hill, Brownhills, Coseley, Cradley, Cradley Heath, Darlaston, Dudley, Gornal, Great Bridge, Halesowen, Kingswinford, Lye, Netherton, Oldbury, Old Hill, Toll End, Dudley Port, Quarry Bank, Rowley Regis, Sedgley, Smethwick, Stourbridge, Tipton, Walsall, Warley, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, West Bromwich, Willenhall and Wordsley.


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