Where are all the black country songs?

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Ian HP
Date: 13 Feb 99 - 05:15 AM

I am from Dudley in the Black Country originally, now a few miles down the road in Wolverhampton. I never thought I'd see the Black Country on a thread! Wonderful. Don't forget the wonderful LP of Cecilia Costello by the BBC (from whom The Grey Cock was collected). 'The Wide Midlands' is also worth a listen. I agree that the amount and quality of collecting in our area falls well below what one would hope, historically. Steve, are you the Steve Parkes who used to do comedy and knows Dave Goode? Cheers

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 11:36 PM

Sam Charters first early book, COUNTRY BLUES, was all about this topic. Blind Lemon, Lightnin', all of the greats. Their songs fit in here nicely.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 07:48 PM

I'm still here, been working on it! Titles are
Wednesbury Cocking
Wedgebury Cocking
Come all yew blaids what's married
Twice tried, twice hung, twice buried
Poem - Our Eynuch
Darlaston Dog Fight
Jolly Joe the Collier's Son
I CAN'T FIND BRUMMAGEM (this one's in the database already)(I don't mean I can't find it, that's part of the title!:-))
Song on a Desperate Boxing Match
I will post all these along with the ABCs, and an update of the chaotic yard situation, in a few days.
Yours under pressure, Jo

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 12 Feb 99 - 08:33 AM

I was born in Birmingham (UK)though I've lived and worked elsewhere for 30+ years. I have a book called Folklore and songs of the Black Country vol 2 edited by Michael and Jon Ravens and published by the Wolverhampton Folk Song Club in 1966. I seem to have acquired it in the 1970s, long after I left, so must have picked it up second-hand or as a remainder. Inside is a flier advertising a record by the Black Country Three (Transatlantic TRA 140) which I never managed to track down. I'm sure I heard them sing on the BBC Radio at that time , and I think the Ravens were two of the three. I seem to remember on of their songs about pushing canal ("cut" to us!) barges through a West Midlands tunnel (Dudley?) by lying on one's back on the cabin and pushing with feet on the tunnel roof, called "Push, boys, Push"). I had one Irish grandfather (born in India of Irish parents and spending his adult life in Birmingham) who told me Pat and Mike stories and one Cheshire born grandfather (also spent his adult life in Birmingham) who told me Enoch & Eli stories. Stripped of the dialect element they were very similar! So now I can bore for England. My father still lives in Birmingham and at 80+ still supports West Bromwich Albion (Soccer) football team (triumph of hope over experience). The other thing my grandparents had in common was that when in funds and in drink they tended to come home with musical instruments they had bought off "a man in a pub". My mother remembers an accordian (which she could play, being an amateur pianist) and a set of bagpipes which she tried...My father remembers an "American organ", harmonium, various banjos etc. Whent they were out of work, often in the '20s and 30s, the instruments were sold on. And now to another thread- the only one I inherited was an italian mandolin, but it had been in the attic so long the glue had dried out. When we bought strings for it ( I would be about 10 or 11 and getting into skiffle) it disintegrated when we tried to tune it, the strips of wood of the "bowl" all came apart. So I never learned an instrument and the world was saved from cacophany: I can empty a room with flat singing, sharp whistling and my kazoo anyway. I met another West Midlander on holiday in the Caribbean last year and embarrassed our wives and mystified the other guests and staff by exchanging Enoch & Eli stories!

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Feb 99 - 03:39 AM

Jo, I've just realised on re-reading this thread that I never did say "yes, please", so: yes, please! I've taken the pig off the wall, and we're both waiting in the study with bated breath.

What about the smell? The pig'll just have to put up with it!

Steve

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 10:03 PM

Working in Baltimore, which has a strong African-American culture, I thought this was a thread sort of dedicated to February, Black History Month in the USA.

Jo, if you're having all that trouble in the yard, I'd simply suggest you move the computer inside. Maybe you could type faster then.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 09:31 PM

just start with the words, Jo, the ABC can wait... it sounds like you have enough work to keep you busy without catering to our curiosity, too.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 08:01 PM

Ok, checked, one only there. Will do them all in one go and put in the notes too. Oh no, just realised what I've said, I meant footnotes but I guess you'll want the ABC thingies too...

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:43 PM

Will check now, typing will take a little longer. I can't type very fast, the yard's full of snow, mud & men with yellow machines ripping the roof off, paying guests arriving tomorrow & Friday (eek), brochures, menus & CD covers to design & our web site to finish....in other words it might be a couple of days! Bear with me.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM

This thread would be a very nice place to post those songs, Jo. We're all waiting, quite politely (you may want to save yourself some typing and check first to see that they're not already posted in the forum or database). But yes, CERTAINLY we'd like those songs.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 07:22 PM

Ok, Ok, I give in. Lye is a place name, it's between Stourbridge and Quarry Bank (two other places).
Thanks for your support Pete! Now, was that really so offensive, katlaughing? Only intelligible to those who've encountered the accent, which I can't actually do very well, it slips into Brummie, sorry, Birmingham, and Black Country folks get very snitty when you think they're from Birmingham! Oi be vrum Deb'n me dears.
Um - was anyone interested in the songs in my little book or have you already got them, Steve? Must get practising, friends from Alvechurch arriving on Friday, bit out of the area but they don't like being called Brummies either!

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Melodeon
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 06:03 PM

I have a record of George Dunn who lived and worked in the Black Country all his life. It is on the Leader Label LEE 4042 and was recorded by Bill Leader in 1971. It has a wide range of songs on it, as well as extensive notes by Roy Palmer + photographs and a discography.

I don't suppose it is still available now except at second hand record sales - but it is well worth getting -George Dunn a lovely singer.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Pete M
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 03:26 PM

Oh come on Kat, if you don't know the accent or area, don't jump to conclusions. If we start to ban puns in case some one might come along and be offended, we'll never hear from Art again.

(Jerry, as a hint, have a look at an map of the area!)

Pete M

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 10:30 AM

david d., the meaning of the thread was made clear in the first sentence ..."songs from the Black Country - the heart of the old industrial English Midlands..." Joe and I were just being facetious, posting about Charlie Pride. It's a joke, son. At the Mudcat, have to watch out for alot of tongues in cheeks, which you can't see through the computer screen.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 04:37 AM

Here's a couple of links if you want to know a bit more:
http://www.theblackcountry.com/home/index.htm
http://www.personal.u-net.com/~goodall/bcountry/bc_home.htm

Sorry, I've forgotten how to do it, and I can't find my crib sheet - you'll have to cut & paste 'em.

Steve

Bookmark this page for info on HTML and posting links, Steve. Thanks for the great links.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 03:57 AM

Believe it or not, Jo, I've never heard your "Yow Min Li" joke. I thought it was very funny, but unfortunately I'm working in Milton Keynes right now, and I can't tell it to anybody who'd understand - they cor mek aert what yo'm on abaert!

Thanks Martin, Bruce, Dan (Black Country Night Out - heavy going, even without the faggots and paes!), John and Brian too. (Faggots? Oh, I'll explain another time!)

The Black Country is a small part of the West Midlands of England, around Walsall, Dudley and that part (apologies if I've missed you out!); where it starts and ends depends largely on who you ask - people often believe themselves to be in it when they're not, or outside it when they are. A bit like the fabled sound of Bow Bells, I suppose. The accent sounds very strange to outsiders, but is actually directly descended from the mediaeval dialect that was spoken by Chaucer, all the way down to London. The region itself was so-called because of the iron founding industry that went on there for so many centuries; there were plentiful deposits of coal, iron and limestone. The industry turned the air and the ground black. Legend has it that when Queen Victoria passed through by train she used to draw the blinds ...

There are several Web sites devoted to the Black Country, which I've neglected to copy - sorry! - but they're easy enough to find.

Jo: I'll lave it to yo to explaern, aer kid. Kape aert th'oss road!

Stave

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 02:51 AM

I seem to remember on my last visit to the Black Country Museum, that their gift shop had a number of song books - alongside a plethora of Enoch and Eli joke books (mudcatters from outside the English Midlands, don't even bother asking - we could never explain!). So there must be books out there.

Brian

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: david d.
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 01:16 AM

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the question - whether we're talking about songs from the Black Country or country songs written by blacks. A couple of the above even took it to mean songs by black singers. I don't know what the real intent of the question was, but I thought I'd add this as food for thought. There are hundreds of "black country" songs, if you take it to mean songs written by black men and performed in the country idiom. Witness: about half of what Jerry Lee Lewis has done over the years; Elvis (essentially a country singer who went mainstream as a 'rockabilly-turned-rock'n'roller') had some of his biggest hits with tunes penned by black men (That's All Right, Mama by Arther "Big Boy" Crudup springs to mind); Hank Williams, Woody Guthrie and a host of others did "white blues" as a sub-field of country music, with many of the songs from the likes of Leadbelly, Bo Carter and others. And then, just to confuse matters a little more, what about Ray Charles, who did at least one whole album of country, plus random cuts on a lot of others?

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Feb 99 - 12:46 AM

Maybe we'd rather not know, eh? How many Mudcatters are there in Asian countries or of Asian descent? I know of one at least in Japan! And, yes I AM being a bleedy heart!

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 11:15 PM

Could somebody please explain "Yow Min Li"?

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 07:18 PM

I've got a little booklet - looks very home produced - called 'Folksongs of the Black Country', published by the Wolverhampton Folk Song Club 1964. Edited by J Raven & M Raven, sung by The Black Country Three, foreword by J H Fletcher. Don't think it's the one referred to above by Steve, this has got tunes for 6 of the 9 songs, & one's a poem anyway.
Yow wont more details, Steve?
PS What do you call a Chinese man who lives between Stourbridge and Quarry Bank? Yow Min Li.
('Scuse my accent, I'm not from thereabouts!)
Jo

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 06:08 PM

Hi Steve,

While living in Melbourne my house was burgled 10 times in 9 years. One of the many possessions which I lost was a vinyl of a group known as the Black country Three, circa early 70's. My best remembered track was a great version of the Corpus Christy Carol, but my memory tells me that they also included some tracks related to local heritage - hence their name. Sorry if this linkage is a bit obscure. Regards
John

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 05:25 PM

Hi Steve!

About the same time Roy Palmer's book came out, Topic released an LP called "The Wide Midlands." I have it. Also, years ago, someone sent me a tape of something called "Black Country Night Out." I have a copy of each as well as the Palmer book in storage and will try to dig out some details for you... probably Sunday or Monday.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 05:11 PM

Charley Pride, a real gentleman, and the person I thought of when I read this thread title. My older brother played in a band with Charley Pride in Helena, MT, when Charley was just starting his singing career. My brother was teaching guitar at the local music store, and they needed a guitarist. Charley was working for a plumbing company. My best friend babysat his kids. Nice family.

Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 02:10 PM

'Songs of the Midlands' is by Roy Palmer, EP Publishing Limited, East Ardsley, Wakefield, Yorkshire, 1972. 67 songs with tunes (and a few variants). One might also try 'English County Songs'. I think there may be more than two books of that title, 1- Cecil Sharp and 2- Lucy Broadwood. These two have been reprinted.

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 02:00 PM

I saw this this thread, and my first thought was,

Yeah, that's a good question. There's Charley Pride, and he's really good, but why isn't there any other black country music?

Charley Price, born in Mississippi in 1938 is the only black person who is well known in american country music.
But that's not what you're talking about, is it, Steve? I think some of us from the Colonies may need a bit of enlightenment. Can you give us a bit of the story of the styles and traditions of Black Country music? for that matter, how'd it get the name "Black Country" in the first place, and how big is the area, and what's it like?
-Joe offer-

Subject: RE: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 01:24 PM

You would raise this today! I've just packed away my songbooks (among others) as a start to moving house. Lurking among them is a collection called "Songs of the Midlands" which I suspect might help. When it surfaces, I'll post details - if nobody else does so before then

Regards

Subject: Where are all the black country songs?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Feb 99 - 08:09 AM

I was just doing a search for black country, looking for songs from the Black Country - the heart of the old industrial English Midlands, when I found this plaintive plea: "why aren't there more black country singers?". Ah, I thought, good question - I'm a singer from the Black Country, but I'm a long way from home most of the time. On the other hand, there are more folk singers and musicians in the Black Country than you can shake a stick at - what's the problem? Reading on, I realised the questioner was bemoaning the melanin-challenged preponderance of proponents of Country music - not the same thing at all.

ÿ

I ought to sing a bit more of my heritage, oughtn't I? Apart fom a book of songs collected by Jon Raven, with no tunes, I don't actually know any BC songs. Any on yo Black Country lads & wenches out there put me out of my misery?

ÿ

Steve