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BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:59 PM If you can't judge a person, but you can judge their actions, attitudes and behaviours, what part of them aren't you judging?
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 06 - 07:09 PM No one is equipped to judge anyone else. They can judge the person's actions, their attitude, their behaviour, but they can't judge the person. This doesn't mean, however, that they can't dislike the person! They most certainly can do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Apr 06 - 06:55 PM What I was trying to ask Jack is about "Where do YOU fit in?" Not asking for your judgements on other people which are based on what you have been fed by the press and possibly inaccurate history. Besides, who are you to judge anybody...or me...or the next man/woman? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:44 PM No one person is any better or worse than another.....if you think you are either then YOU have a problem. I guess have a problem then. I think Mother Theresa was better than Hitler. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:41 PM Here's the deal Mick. If it is wrong to say those things. If it is vile and all that. It shouldn't be on this thread. If it was wrong to bring it up in the first place, delete that too and it will be gone. There is nothing inherently sacred about expressing an opinion. If I believe someone is an asshole and tell them so, they are still an asshole. I may want to say that someone is an Asshole, but I know that when if do then a reasonable moderator would fairly consider that to be an insult. If Martin wants to toss around labels like "antisemite" and halucinate that someone is "a man tormented with guilt" then whether he believs it or not, it is still a verbal attack. You moderators seem to be setting a double standard here. Martin can say almost anything he wants, until someone, anyone responds, then he can say exactly what he wants. Well that's nuts and it is exactly what NOT to do if you want peace here and if you want Martin to decrease the attacks. The problem is not Martin Gibson. The problem is those who enable him and feed his mental illness. He has said dozens of things here that go way beyond the bounds of joking, way beyond the bounds of decency. You are either for his racism, mysogeny and outright cruelty or you are against it. If you agree with him at all when he attacks people, he takes it as an endorsement of his "persona" as well he should. Its as simple as that. As long as Martin is here, people are going to point out who he is and what he has said. Some will do it insultingly, some will do so calmly and clearly as I have just done. You should be telling HIM not to rise to the bait, not everyone else and when he does rise to the bait, you should moderate HIM. Mick, If you aren't prepared to accept that, then you are in for a long rough ride as a moderator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:35 PM No one person is any better or worse than another.....if you think you are either then YOU have a problem. If you think SOMEONE else is either then you have a problem. If they tell you you are then you have a problem. So who is better or worse than you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM My word, some threads do grow legs and keep running forever. Just looked in to see how it was doing, and saw Martin's last post. A touch of open-mindedness there, pleased to see. Almost mellow - I have seen a lot of good things in Europe... I see the American influence every where and I understand why there is resentment toward it. I also see why there is positive American impact. Our music is on your radios... (Though unfortunately not your best music, much of the time, which I understand is true over in the States as well.) Anyway I'm pleased it sounds as if he had a good time. ........................................... Basic life rules for disputes: Just because someone disagrees with us is no reason to hate and despise them (and vice versa) Just because we hate and despise them, even, that is no good reason to insult them (and vice versa). Just because someone insults us, even, that is no good reason to copy them (and of course, vice versa - it's always vice versa in these things). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:01 PM Dear Martin Don't forget the offer to visit me in Balham. Please don't let Teribus put you off the place, it's brilliant. Really hope the trip is going well. Best wishes Ralph |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Big Mick Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:10 PM Alright, in response to several PM's from people I have great respect for, let me make it clear. Martin's comments about Wesley were reprehensible and beyond the scope of what anyone should be expected to forgive. He can attempt to rewrite the history on them all he likes, but it is what it is. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. What he said went beyond vile. One of the PM's I received said that his post of 5:38 AM should be deleted out of respect for Wesley. I could agree with that if I had requests to delete others who brought up Wesley. You see, it isn't Martin who keeps bringing this up, "picking the scab" as it were. I agree that we need to quit reminding the family of this tragedy. If you want to let someone know about this issue, do it in a PM with a link. That way we are not bringing it all up to Wes again. It is enough to point out that MG has said some horrible things. We all know that. He is not going away. We know that. I suggest not rising to his bait when he seeks to cause a reaction. I also suggest just engaging in debate when that is his intent. If there is a personal attack, which is not the same as disagreeing vehemently with you position, Joe or one of the clones will take care of that. With regard to his comments about anti semitism, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else is. I have had two requests to delete his postings as personal attacks, but when I read them they were simply attacks on the views of others. We call that debate, folks, and as such is not to be curtailed or deleted. If he had used personal attacks within the scope of the post, either the whole post would have been deleted or at least the gratuitous vulgarity. This is a standard I will apply to all. We aren't perfect, nor is the science of trying to moderate this place. As our friend Joe points out, we are not going to get all bound up in a legalistic mess here. We are going to try and use good sense, and follow some general guidelines in an effort to maintain the essence of this village we call Mudcat. We will miss some things, and you may feel free to PM those of us whose ID's are known and point things out. But we do this in our spare time, and my schedule means that I am on sporadically at best. Also, we do not inhabit all threads, so things will be missed there as well. I will respond to the folks that sent me a PM as well, but I thought I would give a general response now. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Big Mick Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:44 PM When Martin is posting in an appropriate way, I have no problem with him. But his attempt to now alibi what he has done in the past is revisionist history. The fact is he came here with a chip on his shoulder towards "pseudo intellectuals" and people whose views are on the left side of the spectrum. I don't have a lick of problem with conservatives who vigorously respond to the discussion from their perspective. When those attacks are vicious personal smears lacking completely in content, and designed to hurt others, then I have a problem. Martin's attempt to rehabilitate his past image is commendable as long as it sticks to moving ahead with promoting his views with respect to the views of others. There is nothing he can do to change what he has said in the past, and at times it has been despicable. Those who defend him are johnny come latelies who weren't here and aren't really aware of how coarse he was, or the same folks that would do anything to attack what they perceive as the "ruling elite" of Mudcats. I have, at times, agreed with Martin's position on things like Israel and anti semitism. Given the fact that it is the position here not to block cookies and deny membership, it seems to me that he will be with us for a long while. As long as his attacks are issue oriented, as opposed to personal, I feel it is appropriate to have discourse and try to learn from one another. When he posts as he has above, then a discussion is a good thing. But ya can't revise history, bub, and you have been a mean fella. No amount of "rewrite" will change that. Let's see how it goes moving forward. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:22 PM How is it that you are able to sign is as Martin Gibson and not Guest, Martin Gibson? I thought you left your computer at home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Alba Date: 23 Apr 06 - 07:19 AM Thanks for responding Martin. Unfortunately your response doesn't really help me at all and I am still at a loss as to your Search and Destroy Mission here towards a good number of people on the Mudcat and I will very likely remain that way but anyway, we have both aired our opinion. I didn't realise you were still in Europe when I posted last night. I hope your Flight Home was pleasant. Again I find it difficult to end my post so the I will use the same word again that was my feeling last night and is still my feeling this fine Spring morning. Sadly, Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Alba Date: 22 Apr 06 - 08:03 PM I have to say that not all Guests are lousy that visit here Guest 07:55 PM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:55 PM Alba that was pretty good until you had to take a pointless swipe at guests. Open your eyes. Most of martins backers are named members. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Alba Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:50 PM Martin... I would appreciate if you would please, please stop bringing up the Death of Wesley's Child. It is Cruel, Callous and in my opinion a very sick way to think. I rarely say anything to you as I figure that you are what you are and you work at it but on this subject I find your attitude, frankly, sickening. You know nothing of the circumstances surrounding that poor Child's passing and the grief it has brought. You also certainly do not know Wesley. A truly lovely person. Is there a possiblity that you would consider apologizing for the pain you cause when you write the things you do about Wesley and the Family's loss? When you make wild statements that infer that this poor family were to blame for the Death of a lovely wee baby! Also Martin. Ron Davies...you should meet Ron. Another great Person. Really. In fact it would be to your benefit if you would meet a lot of the people you seem to hate. I honestly believe you would find that your venom would vanish very quickly. You always say you are simply giving back what you get Martin, but I don't see it like that at all. You push and push and push and then you get what you want. A Thread like this waiting for you, then you have a great reason to come in and bash away. I know it is pointless writing this really. I hope your Trip to Europe was fun with your Son. I know you didn't spend very much time in the Cities you were visiting which makes it very hard to get a true picture of the Culture and the People but still, I am sure you looked for the positive, as your time was so limited. I wish I could say something else to close this post but really all I feel is very sad that you have come back and posted as you did. That's the Truth, not a lecture, just how I feel. You no doubt will blow off what I have said, or some nameless Guest will do it for you but I really wanted to say this and I call you Martin because.... I don't know your real name. Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Once Famous Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:59 PM No, I did not go to Scotland. Mudcat Moderators are quite biased it seems. That's why many do not respect them. You just can't have moderators that are biased and have friends who participate. Shambles is right on the money. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST,We Have All Been Here Before Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:52 PM So Martin, have you managed to save Scotland this trip? I refreshed that old thread, but apparently our Saintly Mudcat Moderators saw fit to bury it again. I am not sure under which of Shambles' categories such stellar moderating would fall, but I'm sure it was done For Our Own Good. God only knows what would happen to the hapless Mudcat users, should they have been allowed to read a thread dragged out of Mudcat crypt. I'm sure everyone feels safer for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Apr 06 - 08:37 PM Damn! The thread has been hijacked back! We shall fight them on the Mudcat thread, we shall fight them in the, er, HTML code, um, we shall fight them in the ah, IP lists... er, what the hell, let's just fight them in the pub instead! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:03 PM "We still have a chance of three days of peace! Come on folks! No more talk of he who shall not be named!" That's pretty funny coming from the guy that started threads about Martin Gibson as "Martin Watch". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 21 Apr 06 - 02:00 PM Some of you appear to really miss Martin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Apr 06 - 01:53 PM We still have a chance of three days of peace! Come on folks! No more talk of he who shall not be named! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Amos Date: 21 Apr 06 - 01:28 PM But did he ever return? No, he never returned, And his fate is still unlearned. He may cringe forever From the gays of Europe, He's the creep who never returned! Kingston Trio, The Dark Cellar Series, 1956 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:41 PM Podman et al.-- It would be good if you would familiarize yourselves with "Martin"s entire record before sounding off. Every incident I have cited is true. If that, particularly mocking the death of the Mudcatter's child-- is what turns you on, then that says it all. As I've said before, I'm not the only one who feels it's time for "Martin"s antics to cease. Others have contacted me to support this. The revulsion against his trashing of Mudcat runs deep. It's time for him to go back to his favorite Chicago bathroom--cookieless, at least--and spew to his heart's content there--just not on Mudcat. If you enjoy his performances, perhaps you'd care to join him there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:57 PM Depends on what is being held... Thank you Little Hawk for helping me hijack this thread! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:49 PM You meant to say "hold on", didn't you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:46 PM I MEANT to say "We're holding the fort for him, till he can return and hold IT on his own!" um, no, wait on... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:43 PM We're holding the fort for him, till he can return and hold his own! er, well, ..... hmmmmm... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:34 PM LOL! I take it he has not returned as yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:02 PM "Small things amuse small minds, while smaller minds look on" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Ebbie Date: 20 Apr 06 - 07:14 PM "Well ya know without old Martin Gibson y'all would have nothing to discuss it seems." pms Guest Ya know, years ago my brother worked in a mental institution. One of the inmates walked around all day silently peering into each corner. Another inmate followed him around all day railing and ranting at the first guy's stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 20 Apr 06 - 06:04 PM As soon as he's paid the electric bill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: bobad Date: 20 Apr 06 - 04:34 PM Geeze it's been dull around here, I wonder when he's getting back. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST, heric Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:34 PM Tell Martin we'll keep the home fires burning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST,PMS Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:21 PM Well ya know without old Martin Gibson y'all would have nothing to discuss it seems. Is he exulting in this? I'm sure he is. You all are making his day, week, month maybe year. Thing is he can post whatever crap he wants and you all eat it up like beef stroganov on a plate. Mods won't ban him; you all love this guy I don't care what you say. So I hear he like bugged out and resigned a while back? So what's with that eh? Seems he like resurrected himself and the disciples are all over the thread spreading the good news. Martin's Back!! Hoo Hah. Buncha hyprocrites I say. Marty is no prize-but neither are most of you. You'd all die and curl up if you didn't have your favorite Whipping Boy: one Martin Gibson. He's probably over there in Canada or England reading all this shit and getting the biggest hard on in his life over it. Keep stroking boys and girls. Whadda joke eh? Seems the guy rules this place which is why I'D NEVER join it. You willingly permit a cancer like him to settle in, grow, and eventually kill all of you. Good luck with the laser surgery and chemo. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 20 Apr 06 - 07:05 AM After reviewing the posts of some here, not all, I am of the opinion that having a 'scape goat' might be good therapy for you. Hopefully. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Shambles Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:33 AM Non posting of judgements week Whatever you may think of the named fellow poster who is the subject of this thread perhaps that can be put aside for one moment? Perhaps it can be accepted that it is what many consider to be the often baffling and inconsistent approach to this type of poster and their postings that is 'officially' taken - that is really at the heart of all this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Shambles Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:07 AM Why not just give it a try - ignoring such things I mean? It may work - and we do all know with rockbottom certainty that the course does not. That just turns us all into W*****S. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:36 AM ... or masturbating, come to think of it - if you'll pardon the expression! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:31 AM "Now if I or any other easy target on our forum were to be simply ignored - things would be very different - but for some perhaps - this would not be quite so much fun? Why not try it and see? " ... and it will work just as effectively as The Roman Catholic Church telling people to stop having sex... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Shambles Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:20 AM Perhaps however you may view other posters - it is not really setting a very good example to make any named fellow poster the subject of public conversations about them? For then you lose any moral high ground and bring yourself down to the level of the posters you are encouraging public conversations about. When everyone is encouraged by the example set to make personal judgments about you - these all tend to simply wash over you any way - take it from me.......... Now if I or any other easy target on our forum were to be simply ignored - things would be very different - but for some perhaps - this would not be quite so much fun? Why not try it and see? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: podman Date: 20 Apr 06 - 12:09 AM Ron: Martin Gibson certainly speaks to YOU! You are characterizing his 'fans' just as you accuse him of characterizing others. But soyez contente! Don't resist him, welcome him in. all will be clear... All is love with Martin! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Ron Davies Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:58 PM Fascinating to see all the people who think it's just fine that Mudcat has a racist, homophobic, vulgar Know-Nothing semi-literate (persona, of course--it's all a big joke--right?)--as one of its most prominent citizens. It's just great that "Martin" wishes the death of a Mudcatter's child, attacks Art Thieme for not being Jewish enough for Martin's discriminating taste, rails vulgarly against Kwanzaa, mocks a person in a wheelchair, and so on--right? Really hilarious. It says worlds about everyone who likes that stuff--just loves the joke, evidently. They must be big Jerry Springer fans too. And Cheney-style "dove hunts", no doubt. It's hard to figure out who's more twisted--"Martin" or his fans. It's a hard-fought contest. And of course it doesn't speak well for the moderators that they only make desultory- (there's one for you to look up, "Martin") -attempts once in a while to bring "Martin" under control, while shying away from any definite steps that would in fact do just that. Thereby they of course make far more work for themselves--needlessly. Go figger. Panis et circenses--though "Martin" would think the first word has an "e". There's nothing wrong with good ol' Anglo-Saxon 4 letter words--in their place. Their place is not in personal attacks. If "Martin" wanted to know what the proper place was, he need only consult Spaw. It seems likely, however, that "Martin" has no intention of using them as Spaw does. Saying "don't respond" is a classic worthless answer. We've been down this road before. 1) You would need to get every poster on Mudcat to comply--including all Guests. Not likely. 2) You are thereby surrendering to evil. As I mentioned earlier--not cosmic evil, just stupid petty evil. 3) That sort of suggestion indicates a complete abdication of responsibility by the moderators. And, after all, as the sick person behind "Martin" has told us often, "Martin" is not a person, just a persona. When that person starts taking responsibility for what his mouthpiece is saying, "Martin" will have some justification for existence on Mudcat. Don't hold your breath. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST,,3 Date: 19 Apr 06 - 11:11 AM "Wake up!" I'd say go to sleep and let this thread fade away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST,2 Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:37 AM Guest 9:44, you either have selective memory or choose to forget. When Martin is out of line we all get on his case. His comments are deleted when necessary. This thread, for whatever reason, has been allowed to stay afloat. Wake up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 19 Apr 06 - 09:44 AM It's sad that the people who's sensitivities are being lambasted by this thread can sit silently when martin is attacking a fellow member. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: Georgiansilver Date: 19 Apr 06 - 04:36 AM I agree totally. The criticisms and attacks on this thread would appear to give away more about the posters than the person attacked. Some of the posts from certain people have been unexpected. Can we get back to something like the mudcat 'norm' now (whatever that is). Best wishes, Mike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Shambles Date: 19 Apr 06 - 03:00 AM Perhaps however you may view other posters - it is not really setting a very good example to make any named fellow poster the subject of public conversations about them? In truth such threads do not say much about them or their possible motives but it does say a lot about those who indulge in expressing such personal judgements in public about their fellow posters. And in future when you find the next subject for public discussion is you - there will be little justification for you to be upset at this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 18 Apr 06 - 10:30 PM This thread has said much about the people here. Martin, I think you are a winner compared to most here. Does anyone participating in this morass and in MG's absence have any shame? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:00 PM "the reaction to MG is far far greater than anything MG himself posts." Liek a nuclear blast - and you don't blame the countryside for the resulant fallout. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martin Gibson to visit Europe From: GUEST Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:57 AM I think he has gone into the tardis and will come back speaking like Dick Van Dyke. |