BS: King Rat by James Clavell

Subject: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: number 6
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 10:44 AM

I remember reading this book back in the 1960's, and doing a book report on it. I vaguely remember the story line. Can anyone fill me in what it was all about. It was study on human frailities if I recall.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: heric
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:14 AM

Oh you naughty number. Here, with my lesser imagination, I had only been reminded lately of Heart of Darkness and Lord of the Flies. (Or King Kong without the love interest.)

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: number 6
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:19 AM

I'm glad you got it heric. I feel it is so true though.

BTW ... I love the your analogy of King Kong. LOL

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:26 AM

It is the only really serious book, which I have read by James Clavell. He was a prisoner of war in Changi, Singapore. His novel is a description of the way in which normal humanity can slip away in the face of overwhelming terror, stress, deprivation and cruelty. I found it quite sobering too.
Do you have to lose your humanity to survive in an extreme situation? I don't know the answer and I would hesitate to commit myself to an opinion on that one.
At any rate, I thought "King Rat" was a very moving and moral book.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: MarkS
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:27 AM

Story about American prisoners in a Japanese prison camp in WWII. I recall that "King Rat" was a prisoner who specialized in trapping rats for food.
James Cavell, as a child I think, was imprisoned in a Japanese camp during that time. His writing is from personal experience.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: heric
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:39 AM

6: Can you see Ron Olesko as Ismael?

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: number 6
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:40 AM

Now that you mention it !!!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: number 6
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 11:43 AM

I have been thinking about 'Heart of Darkness' ... very good!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 12:01 PM

It was made into a movie as well.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 02:49 PM

BTW, it's Clavell.

Just wanted it in here in case anybody searches for the right spelling in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 03:02 PM

Mmmm. Very much an illustration of what is going on. A very good book though - I remember being sad when Clavell died as it meant that there would be no more new books. I always enoyed his work.

The film, as I remember, starred George Segal, Tom Courtenay, James Fox, Denholm Elliott and John Mills. Quite an impressive cast, although it would have been difficult to do real justice to the book. Must try and find it and reread.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: number 6
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 03:58 PM

Jeffp ... my apologies in the incorrect spelling. Thank you for pointing out the mistake.

Jacqui ..... I agree, the movie (I feel) does not do any justice to the book, even though the cast was superb. Yes, it certainly is a good illustration of what is going on here in the Mudcat these days.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 04:00 PM

A powerful book. An American in a Japanese prison camp in Malaya heads a ring that does all kinds of nefarious activities, manipulating both prisoners and guards to obtain favors, money, food and privileges. While the rest of the camp starves and goes through terrible privations, this man lives like a king, with syncophants who act as servants to him in order to receive the largess. One of his schemes is for his minions to kill and sell rats as meat.

The narrator of the story is another prisoner-of-war in the camp who is taken under the wing of "King Rat" enough to observe him, but is not one of his henchmen. At the end of the story, when American soldiers liberate the camp, suddenly King Rat is treated like every other soldier. He is, in fact, a low-ranking corporal. That he is well-fed and healthy when everyone else is skin and bones is suspect, and there is an intimation that he may be charged with war racketeering.

I know a Dutchman, the son of missionaries who was imprisoned from the ages of 5 to 12 in a WW II Japanese prison camp in Indonesia. When American soldiers liberated the camp, they first air-dropped food to the people, mostly cans of sweetened condensed milk. After years of starvation, the man described it as being like manna from heaven. To this day, whenever he feels anxious, he opens a can of sweetened condensed milk and eats it straight from the can with a spoon.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Cavell
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 04:04 PM

6 - no problem. That's what happens when you get humans involved.

Elmer - interesting story about your Dutch friend. I imagine we all have our centering tools which take us back to what's really important in our lives.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 05:53 PM

Hello! My name is fishmeal.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: bobad
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 06:01 PM

"a prisoner who specialized in trapping rats for food."

This reminded me of my father's account of the time he spent in a French concentration camp in the foothills of the Pyrenees during WWII. Many of the inmates of the camp were Spaniards who had been there since the Spanish Civil War and had become adept at survival. He described awakening in the morning to the sight of rats hanging from the rafters overhead by wire snares that the Spaniards had set to trap them as they ran across the rafters during the night. The meat made a welcome dietary supplement.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 07:31 PM

When could fiction equal real life?

G. Gordon Liddy admitted to cooking and eating a rat he'd caught in his basement as a boy. As the cat watched him eat, Liddy told it, "Soon, you won't be the only one they'll fear."

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 08:38 PM

Bobad quoted someone else, to this effect:

"a prisoner who specialized in trapping rats for food."

Not quite right (either quoter or quotee). King Rat did not CATCH rats for food; he RAISED rats underneath the huts, for food.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 10:06 PM

I read Shogun after watching the mini-series. On about the 3 page, one of the characters comments that she ship was about to flounder.

In Tai-Pan, within half a page, he refers to the same vessel as a gun boatm sloop of war, a frigate and as a ship of the line. The vessel's captain is variously referred to as Lieutenant, Captain, Commodore.

I wonder how many other solecisms Clavell committed. Was it due to carelessness, poor research, or just not caring, figuring that he wrote well enough to get away with it.

The writing was good, the details were sometimes questionable. After Tai-Pan, I didn't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 09:30 AM

I enjoyed King Rat as an opportunity to "see the other side". Where King might have been seen as totally a user, manipulator, and profiteer (and is seen as just that by the English character who is trying to hunt him down), he is also furnishing a market for the needy, as the narrator discovers when he's the one in need.

It was also an interesting view of a 'class' system among the Americans whereas the English prisoners were reduced by circumstances to a single class (prisoners).

Present world circumstances remind me of the excellent play "Caine Mutiny Court Martial" which has been revived in New York City.

My comfort food is Jelly Belly jalapeno jelly beans. Someone gave 'em to me as a kind of joke when I flew to Europe, and they were nice to have as I landed in Frankfurt.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: number 6
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:15 AM

"I enjoyed King Rat as an opportunity to "see the other side". Where King might have been seen as totally a user, manipulator, and profiteer (and is seen as just that by the English character who is trying to hunt him down), he is also furnishing a market for the needy, as the narrator discovers when he's the one in need."

Good robomatic ...."see the other side" .. if it wasn't for the Rat, they wouldn't survive. The traditions of the (POW) officers and the class system provides nothing towards their survival. The Rat, through it all is one that they hate, they detest him ... yet he provides the existance they require.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 12:46 PM

EBarnacle said:

The vessel's captain is variously referred to as Lieutenant, Captain, Commodore.

I don't know for sure about present naval terminology, but it used to be quite possible to be a lieutenant (or a captain) and be a commodore. A commodore is (was) an officer who is not an admiral who is in overall command of a multi-ship mission. He is (was) of at least the same rank and date of rank as the otherwise highest ranking officer in the ships on that mission.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 01:27 PM

In the Navy, "captain" was a generic term for the CO. I was on a destroy and we never had a real captain (equivalent of a colonel). We had commanders bucking for captain. Nevertheless, they were usually called "captain". As for commodore that was a legitimate rank in the Navy but I think they've done away with it now. but I''ve never heard of a lieutenant being a CO of a ship. By my own experiences, I'd say it never happens.

As far as Clavell goes, I find his writings about Asian, with the exception of King Rat, to be typical white man's colonialist bs.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 02:17 PM

In 1941, James Clavell was a young soldier in the ill-starred garrison at Singapore, which fell to the Japanese shortly before Christmas of that year. He began his years as a prisoner of war in Changi Gaol, where King Rat begins. One of his fellow PoWs was Ronald Searle, the famous British artist.

Subject: RE: BS: King Rat by James Clavell
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:10 PM

Yes, it is possible to be all three. On the other hand, as I recall, the officer in question was only in charge of a single vessel, not a flotilla. As he was in charge of the vessel, he was a captain by courtesy and would not, politely, have been referred to by any other title except, possibly "Sir." Sir would have been a result of being considered an officer and a gentleman.