Music practice

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 07:19 AM

Oh thank you Tim!! :-)

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 May 06 - 07:05 AM

Of course, the ultimate instrument, the human voice - well, most of what I said about musical training 'in the Classical Music mould' can often be bypassed... some people are BORN singers, some are trained and some are just thrust into the background, .... ;-)

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: mandotim
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:42 AM

I've heard you sing. You were always a musician.
Tim from Bit on the Side.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:44 AM

BTW, on Monday, for the first time ever, I felt that I could perhaps call myself a musician. That was a good feeling!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 03 May 06 - 02:43 AM

Because of the way I learned music, though I could play from the dots, I didn't know the names of the notes. We had been taught the "FACE" and "Every good boy" and that stuff when I did the few lessons when I was small, but I couldn't relate them to the music without stopping to think about it, and the notes on the recorder were just notes, not names. In recent years I've learned the names, though it sometimes does take me a second or two, if someone says "Give me an A" to work out where that is. I think it would be fair to say that I have found it useful to know the names and now that I'm progressing further with the musical knowledge I think it is beginning to become necessary not just useful.

I guess it depends on how far and in what direction you want to take your musical knowledge.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 May 06 - 08:58 PM

Oh, and arpeggios (the odd numbered notes of the scale) are the next step after scales, and a prerequisite for generating basic chords. They also build 'muscle memory'. The basis for this statement is visually obvious on a keyboard, but the concepts also apply even for single note instruments.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 May 06 - 08:49 PM

"I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post."

That's a very strange comment!

In Western music - and I don't mean 'cowboy'! - it only has 7 notes A-B-C-D-E-F-G, and then it repeats. Other cultures' music may have different concepts such as 'quarter tone' notes, etc, but we'll just ignore that for the moment! Actually that comment only holds for the white notes on the piano keyboard - more on this later.

ALL SCALES (8 note scales, that is!) have the format 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. They then repeat, the '8' being the octave of the '1'. It doesn't matter whether they are Major, or Minor, etc.

The whole basis of your problem seems to be that you need to (oh dear, it's that word again!) PRACTICE the concepts I just mentioned. The Classically Trained Muso's expression "As easy as scales" is because scales ARE the basis of Western Music.

Now as to those 'black keys' - because differing Western scales types have differing placings of 'Tones' & 'Semitones', this pattern works only for starting on 'C'. If you start on any other note, you find that you need to add 'Semitones' or half notes in certain places - and you then have 'sharps' or 'flats', which fall on the black keys. Also you can start on any black key, and build the scale too.

Of course, if you look at other instruments, such as guitars, or wind instruments, you don't have black and white keys, but the concept of 'Semitones' (a single pitch step) & 'Tones' (2 consecutive pitch steps) still applies. This is why keyboard training is recommended for all Classically Trained musicians, even if they intend to play any other instrument - it just helps you get your head around some of the basic concepts.

So okay, you can 'fake it' i.e. play music, without understanding scales, but you will understand more ABOUT music of all types when you do, as well as discovering that practising scales to the point where they are an automatic 'muscle memory' response improves the technical ability of your fingers (and other bodily parts - including breath control - on non-keyboard instruments).

Similar with 'reading the dots' - you CAN make music without knowing how to do it - but when you HAVE learned it, it just makes musical life much easier (you can scan the sheet, and get the tune instantly without having someone else play it for you), and you CAN STILL PLAY MUSIC WITHOUT THE SHEET MUSIC IN FRONT OF YOU (i.e. play by ear, or from memory)!

So yes, you "should be able to readily name each note", but if you do take a second or two to work out on your fingers that the fifth note in the scale of C Major is 'G', that still counts (if you'll pardon the pun!)

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 06 - 06:17 PM

"I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post."

No problem, Ebbie. It may take a couple of days of concentration, but that's a small price to pay for what you gain. If you can play scales by ear, then you're already ahead of the game.

Here's a system that one of my students worked out to help him learn where the notes are on a guitar. He'd been an engineer at Boeing, was in his seventies, and recently retired   He had never played a musical instrument before and figured now was the time. He wanted to learn a bit of classic, some folk, anything he could pick up, so I started him the way I usually do with students who are game to do it this way:   a little classic technique for openers.

He was having a bit of a problem relating the notes on the page with where they were on the guitar, so he turned his engineering-oriented mind (lotsa numbers) to the problem and came up with a neat system. By each note, he wrote a number that looked like a fraction. He broke it down for me. The top number was the string, the bottom number was the fret. Neat! Then, as he played the notes, he'd say them. "C, D, E, F," etc., until he had it down pat and didn't need the numbers anymore.

Anyway, you may already know where C, D, E and all that are on the fingerboard, but just in case you don't, here's a C scale in the first position (within the first four frets and using open strings) using his system   

(C)5/3 – (D)4/0 – (E)4/2 – (F)4/3 – (G)3/0 – (A)3/2 – (C)2/1

To extend it to cover the whole first position, (E)6/0 – (F)6/1 – (G)6/3 – (A)5/0 – (B)5/2 – (C)5/3 - (D)4/0 – (E)4/2 – (F)4/3 – (G)3/0 – (A)3/2 – (C)2/1 – (D)2/3 – (E)1/0 – (F)1/1 – (G)1/3, and you can take it back down again or just generally goof around with it.

I know this looks pretty messy, but it's really fairly simple. If we could sit down together with a couple of guitars, I could show it to you in about ten minutes.

By the way, standard left-hand fingering for any style of guitar when playing scales or single-note passages (or bass runs, which are just partial scales) is a simple open, one, two, three, four. That is, notes on the first fret played with the first finger (index), on the second string with the second finger (middle), and so on. Pretty straightforward.

Just bear with me, I'll get you there.

Once you've learn this, you know where all of the "white key" notes are (referring, of course, to the piano) in the first position on the fingerboard. That's for starters. As you move around the Circle of Fifths (good stuff on this link), with each step you have to add either a sharp or a flat (depending on which way you're going) to keep the scale structure consistent. For the bewildered, to sharp a note, take it up one fret, to flat it, take it down one.

But that's for another day. Just get the C scale down and you're on your way.

I hope this a) isn't totally bewildering; and b), actually helps.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 02 May 06 - 05:19 PM

Well all this input must be helping! Or perhaps the scales and arpegs are already showing results. We had our usual Mayday celebrations yesterday and I played with the band as we walked round the village, played for the garland dancers at the pub and played in the session afterwards. I managed to join in most of the tunes, even ones I didn't know I could play. It gave me a real buzz.

BPL I don't know that son. My son has given up the lessons, but I'm trying to make sure he continues to play his instrument. At the moment he's trying to teach himself to play guitar. I figure that Grade 5 level means he's got a pretty good grounding in music and should ensure that he will be able to play when he wants to in the future. I am sad though, that he has stopped the lessons. Still, there isn't time for everything they want to do!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 May 06 - 04:06 PM

Lynne, I would encourage you to encourage your son to persevere with the lessons. He'll be thankful in the end. I let my son quit football because I figured even if he'd been great he only have 10-15 years of it, but musical competancy is for life.

Also, re. the singing to accompany yourself difficulty, I was in a band with a lass who played recorder and sang; just not together. There are some good songs for it. The one we did was a sixties thing called 'Strangely strange but oddly normal.' You might know it?

P

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: mandotim
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:37 PM

Hi Lynne! Glad you took the advice about consulting Jude re; bombardes. That woman knows more than anyone needs to about such things! Remember there is such a thing as 'passive bombarding'! Re; practice. A lot of what we play is quite fast, but I try to practice slowly, focusing on accuracy, intonation, tone and timing. I don't repeat things too often, as they start to sound stale after a while. I practice scales, arpeggios and solo patterns when I get the time, although I don't read music so this has to be by ear. I also try to vary the practice by taking tunes I normally play on (say) the mandolin, and playing them on guitar or banjo. I also try playing tunes in 'other' keys. Fast reels on a mandocello in Eb can be a challenge!
Hope this helps.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 May 06 - 02:20 PM

I do something similar, WYSI- often when I'm waiting for a bus or have to remain in some spot for some time I'll sing or hum a tune in my head (not audibly!) and run the chords with them. There are times when I'm wrong - sometimes, for instance, it will turn out to be a C rather than an Am or a D instead of a D7- but it surprises me how often an ordinary person is able to tell without hearing a sound.

I understand that piano players often lay a banner keyboard in front of them just to practice their fingering. Somewhat the same.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 May 06 - 11:27 AM

Maybe you all do this-- I just realized I've been doing it for years!

I play autoharp chord progressions for individual songs.

Not the whole song, and not the whole duration of each chord until it changes-- just the progression, a stroke for each chord.

I started doing it when playing for evening worship in advance of the song coming up. I'd silently refresh my memory while the service went on around me, by just going through the chord chanfges on the autoharp chord buttons without playing on the strings. I did this especially on new material that had unusual chord patterns. I thought of it as training my fingers in the pattern necessary to get around the keys, especially the farther stretches or getting from an oft-used chord button to a far-flung one I use less often. It was a huge help to being able to do unfamiliar material smoothly. (A lot of these songs I had just heard, transcribed, and learned to sing that morning.) Now I am doing the same thing as I proof-listen to newly transposed arrangements for the band. It's like proofreading, but not so much reading as hearing.

First I play through the original-key version completely and listen to the progression while looking to see that I am actually making the chord written down at the place where I wrote the chord change. I was surprised to find that songs I have played correctly for years contain chord changes that are actually placed in the wrong spot or with the wrong chord name written in! (So I fix these.)

Then, for the freshly-transposed keys, I play just the progressions while I fast-forward through the tune in my head, to listen for whether the played chord progression fits the pattern that I just heard in the original (I, IV, V for instance). In this way I can proof all the chords quickly but accurately-- and because of this interesting thread, I realized in mid-proof that it's practice in the fingering pattern as well.

A friend of mine with bad nerve damage in her hand had been a top legal secretary-- lots of typing. The cut nerve was re-attached, and she used to include in her rehab typing in the air or on a desktop at odd moments. It cut her rehab time in half the expected number of months. She got back more sensation than the doc had said could be possible-- more fingers functioning AND feeling sensation.

So I am sure that what I am doing does indeed feed muscle memory, and that the technique can be transferred to any instrument.

Anyone else doing this?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 06 - 12:26 AM

...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it - and why. If performing at a certain level for yourself or others is the goal - whether professionally or as a hobby - then practice on some sort of formal level is probably inevitable: scales; exercises; sight-reading or learning charts; ear training; what-have-you.

But..there is a rather unorthodox approach to a relationship with a musical instrument that focuses more on intimacy and is less dependent on results. It incorporates other senses that produce feelings of satisfaction that go beyond (or sidestep, if you are rationalizing) accomplishment.

You take pleasure in the feel of the wood, for example, or you like the way it smells. Maybe you are curious about how a certain passage heard on a recording is played, and so you focus on just that part of the song, and forget about the rest.

This is probably a very egocentric approach to take, but it can give just as much satisfaction as applause from a crowd, because you are doing it for yourself and you are the only judge of how well you meet your own expectations. You don't bend to another's demands upon you, and you don't need someone else's approval in the form of fame and fortune as a measure of your own musical worth.   

Which is probably good, because by all accepted standards you probably won't be worth a tinker's damn, but you don't care. You are content with becoming instead of being. Everything is a work in progress, and completing a process and calling it done feels sort of like going to a funeral.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:44 PM

My goal is fairly limited - what I want to do is to pick tunes up the neck. (For strumming up there I decided that capoing works just fine.) But I want to be able to change the resonance and timbre and depth of sound by going up the neck when that's the effect I want.

I don't have a problem in picking a tune in most keys (an exception is E. For that one I capo.) but that's mostly in pretty basic open chords. I watch some good flashy pickers go up the neck at will and I'm green. When I take my time I can do it- the fingers pretty much know where the note is but I want muscle memory on my side so I'm going to make it a matter of practice.

As you can see, success, for me, consists of short steps.

I have a VERY basic question though: when you say "do scales" are you saying that one should be able to readily name each note? I do scales by ear in any key without problem but if I made myself learn each note by name I'd be back at the beginning post.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:50 PM

Don Firth - great point.
I hate to liken music to golf, which I love playing - but the more you practice the better you play.
You develop 'muscle memory" or in music, "chops", so that the technical part comes naturally, and you can concentrate on the performance.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:59 AM

Well any playing must be better than no playing. I keep telling my son that if he just plays his instrument it's pracice. He's given up lessons, unfortunately, so practice is even more important.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Sparkly_Sheep
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM

I usually have an idea of what piece(s) I want to improve before I start. I start by playing some random tunes before getting onto the piece I want to work on. I am bad really and dont always practise like I should - but I think as long as you play something you enjoy then thats more important (or maybe im just making excuses!)

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: GUEST,Scott in Seattle...
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:46 PM

Lynne,

sounds like you're headed in the right direction. we all have our own path after all. let us know how things work out for you :) speaking of scales, i'm going to get a pal to show me how to perform scales and bass runs.

peace,
Scott

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:23 PM

I think I'm quite glad that I learnt to play the way I did, because I'm kind of free to do it how it wants to be done, but I'm at a stage now where I think I need to know more about the mechanics of the whole thing. I don't feel as though I'll progress properly from this point unless I start doing and understanding things like scales and such.

I understand what you're saying Scott and Frank, but I think a bit of shape and discipline now will do me more harm than good.....and I'm still enjoying the whole process so it must be good!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:21 PM

I try to practice for an hour or so a day. After years of basic chords and fingerpicking, I'm determined to get to the point to where I can easily pick out melodies to songs. After a lot of effort I'm starting to see results. Sometimes I cheat and practice while watching TV.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: GUEST,Scott in Seattle...
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 03:42 PM

this is a great thread!!!!

hi Lynne,

i don't read music or read Tab at this point. still, i can accompany myself just fine on the guitar. many others can do the same. i play in the keys of C, A, G, E and D. i can play in the different keys and figure out which key better suits my voice for the song i'm singing. it's *not* hard to do :) some people choose to play in two or so keys and let their capo do the rest...which is fine too. if someone really wants to achieve their musical goals, they will find a way. their are others in our communities who can at least give us a free lesson and/or tips to guide us in the right direction. songbooks with the chords above the music also make it possible to make music easily without knowing how to read music (especially when you already know the song). if the key is too low or too high for your voice, use a capo or change the key (without using a capo) to another key that better suits your voice.

i hope this all makes sense. my point is, it is not hard to make music if you are willing to put in the work. i've never had a guitar lesson (couldn't afford them, but, i didn't let that stop me). by using Mudcat's forum of "guitar Q & A", chord books, practicing my chord changes daily, playing along to my folk albums, etc., led me to my goal of learning to play the guitar. after i learn the guitar really well, i'll teach myself the autoharp! i'm looking forward to it! i'm now teaching myself music theory (i found a guitar book in a used bookstore that explains theory in a simple way. it's called "How To Play Guitar" by Roger Evans. the information and help is out there when we seek it. please don't be shy about asking for help. there were times when i wanted to give up, but, the desire to learn guitar to accompany my singing, burned deep within me.

believe in yourself, work smart, keep at it even when you feel like giving up, and one day you will surprise yourself in a good way!

peace and love,
Scott

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 03:08 PM

True enough, Frank. But, of course, it's the time spent in the "woodshed" getting the mechanics down pat that makes it possible to forget about the mechanics and just concentrate on the music when you're on stage.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:37 PM

Lynne,

Before you begin to practice, ask yourself practice what and why?

Many people spend meaningless hours practicing the wrong things.

The only reason to know scales is that they are the ABCs of music theory. Or they may help to attain virtuosity if you want to be a virtuoso like Charlie Parker. For someone who just wants to play and sing songs, they might be useless. I know so many good singers and pickers who don't know scales and it doesn't hurt their singing and playing one bit.

The "authoritarian" approach to music which has been touted by certain types of rigid personalities who favor a so-called "classical" approach to learning music doesn't free you up enough. It's counter-productive to the creative process.

OTOH, knowing scales is about knowing what they mean. In and of themselves, they mean nothing. But if you look at them as a stepping-stone to knowledge about the written "ideas" of music, then they might make some sense. Their knowledge can help you sight-sing music or sight-read but their value is only if you can use this information to internalize your music. A good exercise would be for musicianship to sing through the scales of #'s and b's both major and minor. It would open up your ears. Then you could learn how to transpose melodies and chords of songs quickly. If you were a vocalist, you could find the proper key for our song.

When you perform, however, it's advisable to throw away everything you "know" about music and just express yourself. As soon as you start concentrating on the mechanics of music, you are not focussed on the performance which is about conveying the feeling and meaning of the material.


Practicing and performing are different activities.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:34 PM

Well done Ebbie! I hope you stopped and played it for a while once you'd done that!

I think keeping your instrument where you often see it is very useful for making you remember to practise (or just to play)

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:32 PM

I've found a spot! Cleared some floor space by moving some boxes to a shelf so I could put my instrument stand on the floor.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:27 PM

Unfortunately, I can't play to accompany my singing! Unless I play by ear.....:-)

Everyone's comments and input are keeping me inspired too...I've also started reading a book we have.."The AB guide to music theory" It's wonderfully basic and I'm finding it very useful to learn about all the things most people learn in their very early days of music lessons. Ted's started reading it too, so at the moment it's on our bathroom floor where we can read a little bit every time we're sitting on the loo!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: GUEST,Scott in Seattle...
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:08 PM

i try to make sure i play my guitar daily..at least an hour or two. i have to remind myself to slow down (to make sure i don't practice mistakes.) i mostly fingerpick, and my guitar skills are coming together. i'm an intermediate guitarist working my way to advanced. i use the guitar to accompany my folk songs. i now have to make myself practice my voice scales daily (even though i sing each day.) vocal exercising is important too. i wish i vocalized as much as i practice guitar. i'll have to work on that.

i love music so much and hope to sing/play fulltime one day to earn a living.

p.s.keep believing, practicing and don't give up!

Scott

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:02 PM

What a nice thread! I recently moved from a large home to a tiny apartment where space is at a premium but I'm sitting here determined to find enough wall space to hang up my guitar so it's ready to hand. The problem is that an empty case takes as much room as a filled one- and I already have a space for the case.

I moved here about 6 weeks ago and I'm not practicing or playing at all when I'm alone- gotta change that. Thanks for the inspiration, folks.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 07:30 AM

Yes some music just flows out (in private anyway), but the hard bits I remember as finger patterns rather than dots or abc.
I probably am doing it wrong, it's the high notes that make me ache.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 06:52 AM

I should have thought you must be blowing it wrongly if it makes your cheeks ache...I've never had the problem and I can play for ages.

I think my subconscious probably builds up finger pattern pictures. If I try to play something consciously I go wrong, but if I leave it up to what my mind and fingers have learnt, it plays itself. I know that my fingers will go to the next correct note even when, if I try to think what the next note is, I can't.

I always reckon that I don't actually play the recorder, I'm just the channel and the instrument or the music plays itself. Jonny Dyer was very sceptical when i suggested that!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:05 AM

I play the recorder too (very badly). I find I can't practise for long, it makes my cheeks ache.
Do you find that to play some tunes without music you build up a picture of the finger patterns (e.g.the B of Kalfoozalum, where it jumps about)?
My recorder sits on the table too, and gets played when it shouts at me.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 01:31 PM

Sounds like you have a great support group, Lynne!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Hawker
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 01:27 PM

I also found that playing a tune is easier if I can sing it in my head, knowing it well really helps you play it, so I try to listen to someone else playing a tune when i am learning it, till i get it into my heard.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 11:18 AM

Chance to play with other musicians around here is not great. It's part of the reason I started the NWLeicestershire Quarter sessions, but they seem to be more folk-cluby than sessiony really.

I've already played four times today and learnt the Fmajor scale and arpeggio. From that I've learnt more because Richard had to explain a couple of things to me.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Hawker
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:37 AM

Be brave Lynne! I have been 'playing' the violin for 18 months now and
I tend to think I play it every evening for about an hour rather than 'practise!' I also play once a week with other local people on a Tuesday morninig at my house, they are learning concertina and Lute though all are excellent guitarists. another lady has just joined us on the clarinet! It has really helped to play with other musicians, as you not only have to play nut also listen to the others.
I joined in the session upstairs on Saturday night at Miskin with Anahata and Mary H among others, I tried to play quietly and I think I got away with it! - well nobody complained anyway!
With the harp, I do not feel anywhere near competant! I still need to do all the finger excercises and all that, but one day..........
Cheers Lucy

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:03 AM

Lol!! I don't think I'm that brave Alan! Tony keeps a gun under the bench to shoot rebellious singer/musicians!

Actually, that's all good,because I do tend to have little tootles whenever I walk past my recorder, so that works.

Thanks for all the support and encouragement.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: alanww
Date: 21 Apr 06 - 08:43 PM

Hey Lynne, dear sweet smiling Lynne with the talented children and with the happy, friendly husband ... whatever you do, just keep going! Go to as many sessions as you can and try to join in everything which is played (but quietly!). It will help your ears to pick up the tunes and your brain to translate that into the actions of your fingers with the instrument. (However, just maybe the bombarde is not the friendliest session instrument I have come across - unless you can fit a silencer, of course!)
And in between you should practice for short lengths of time but often, certainly daily and preferably multiple times per day! Go for it and at Sidmouth FF we will both take our instruments into the Anchor Middle Bar and enjoy the look on Tony's face!
Love and kisses ...
"Dancing and singing, bell ringing!"
Alan

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Apr 06 - 08:04 PM

It's been my experience that there are different approaches to practice. Some people are more visualy, some aural, some methodical, some through immersion many hours per day.

There are two kinds of practice.

1. Mass practice whereby you sit with your instrument for hours at a time.

2. Distributed practice which involves a small amount each day or increments throughout the day.

Contiguous distributive practice is generally best for this reason. Your ability to absorb new information breaks down after a certain time period. Your learning is inversely proportional to the amount of practice time to which you subject youself.

The best way to do it is small increments at a time either throughout the day or a little every day. The former is better.

Physical mmory is the most potent memory device we have. This is why a mass practice session and then skipping days between is not the best approach to retain muscle memory.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Apr 06 - 08:11 AM

In the last couple of years I've started, very tentatively, playing in slower sessions. I'm quite proud of the way I'm developing the ability to pick up a tune I've never heard before and play along, but I have a feeling that if I do start practising scales and arpeggios it's going to become easier.

My daughter (Grade 1 flute) has lent me her flute book with scales and arpegs in the back so I started on them this morning. My son (Grade 5 oboe) is also keen to explain the whys and wherefores of basic theory, so I'm advancing.

When I am a good and accomplished player, it will be due to the whole of the folk 'family'!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Bert
Date: 21 Apr 06 - 03:15 AM

...I notice with some of the posters' practice habits that it would be difficult for them to play in a band,..

Good point Seamus, I hate jamming which is probably very similar to playing in a band.

I find it difficult to hear myself and others at the same time, possibly because for the first few years of my working life I had a job where it was essential to cut out background noise.

P'raps if I practice more I'll get better at it.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 11:45 PM

Well I'll admit my chorus does have warm-ups for at least 10-15 minutes every rehearsal. Lots of scales and arpeggios, whole step scales, half step scales, dynamic range exercises, rhythm exercises, stretching your range, singing intervals--and some others. So that's at least once a week--more if a concert is coming up.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 11:29 PM

I don't ever practice (well, hardly ever) since our cat Lucy won't let me. She likes hearing me play--when I start she climbs on top of the piano to listen. But if I try to practice--go over a passage, for instance, she comes down and sits on the keys.   (It's a good excuse not to do scales too).

I also never practice singing--just sing most of the day except at work. The more you sing, the more comfortable you are doing it. Always looking for good acoustics--the stairwell at work is good, as is of course, the shower. Always trying to learn new songs, especially songs with a chorus, so a group can join in.

Probably should practice something--but what the hell, music is FUN.

Would certainly agree a bit of music theory is worth it. Reading music, circle of fifths, relative minors, normal chord progressions etc. You don't need much.

This sort of thread is indeed what Mudcat is all about--but look who's not here to comment.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 11:10 PM

I start by picking and singing a song I know inside out, to warm up fingers and voice.

Then, I'll try one in a different key. I'll pick a couple of reels jigs or hornpipes each in a different key.

My version of scales, I suppose.

If I'm learning a new piece, I'll play it over and over until I've got it, then play it again.

If it's a piece to do on stage, I do it early in my set (like within the first 3 songs) to get the new-song butterflies out of the way.

I notice with some of the posters' practice habits that it would be difficult for them to play in a band, or professionally.
But if you're playing just for yourself, heck, anything goes!

Seamus

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Sean Belt
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:42 PM

I'll go you one further; scales are the basis of ALL music.

Cheers,
Sean

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 08:03 PM

Playing music without any 'technical knowledge' is possible, and not as fatal as driving a car without knowing how to handle a skid (front or rear), knowing just how far it takes to brake in varying road conditions, etc, but there are many "things you never dreamt of, Horatio!".

Scales ARE the basis of classical music, you practice the finger movements (including turning the thumb under on the piano) to get from each note to the next one for each scale. You also practice arpeggios, which are the basis for 'simple chords'. Scales are good for pitch training for singers too.

You also get specially written exercise books designed to strengthen each finger movement (like the Ricardo Iznaola concepts mentioned above). Can't remember the exact name of the concept now, but the original ones were for piano - and you can get them for piano accordion too. As a mainly keyboard trained guy, I suspect that there are similar books for most other instruments too.

The BASIS of 'classical music training' is to know 'all the twiddly bits' of music theory, so that you 'just use them' - one of the reasons that classically trained musos often seem to look down their noses at self trained and folk musos who often seem to not want to understand where the classically trained muso is coming from. OK one is not forced into the 'mould', but ignorance is not really bliss!

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: MBSLynne
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 03:27 AM

I am really picking up some useful stuff here. THIS is what Mudcat is all about, not all the bickering and fighting that goes on elsewhere! Thaks guys!

I play for enjoyment too, but lately I've begun to feel the need to expand a bit. My lack of knowledge restricts me from developing musically. So...I shall follow some of the really useful advice on here and see how I get on! And practise singing too!

And yes Anahata..that was me...sorry! Though Geoff Duck was also blowing his at one stage and Isambarde Jude blew mine (beautifully I might add) so I wasn't solely guilty!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Bert
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 11:08 PM

My attention span is very limited if I try to do any amount of practice at home.

So I just go along to a local open mic and inflict them.

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Sean Belt
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 10:57 PM

I'm also one of those who doesn't really practice, but just plays a lot. I play fiddle, lap dulcimer, banjo, mandolin and guitar. I try to pick up at least two of them everyday and get at least some playing time in. Though lately, I'll admit I've been favoring the fiddle.

Generally, I start with running a few scales just to warm the fingers up. Then I'll play some tunes I know for relaxation and move on to tunes I'm wanting to learn. If there are rough spots (and there always are), or difficult bits, I'll work them until I'm either satisfied or too frustrated to go on.

Hmmm... As I look at what I've written, it almost seems like a practice routine, though I've never thought of it as that before.

Peace,
Sean Ruprecht-Belt

Subject: RE: Music practice
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 06 - 07:27 PM

Vocally, I try to get in some practice every day, at least warming up the voice. I have a regular routine that I found on the internet:   a group of Vocal Exercises put together by Brenda C. Kayne, along with her Comments. I don't know who Ms. Kayne is, but the exercises and her remarks are very close to warm-up and practice exercises that voice teachers I've studied with in the past had me doing. I start with these, and then often move on to another group:   Vocalise by June Bowser. Once again, I don't know who she is, but the exercises are good. With both sets I start low, sing the exercise, then take it up a half-step, and sing it again, then up another half-step, and so on. I don't do them all every time, but I always start out with ones that lie within a limited range, then work up to the ones that reach a bit (like 12 and 16 in the June Bowser group). But I never take any of them beyond what feels comfortable on that particular day.

After I'm well warmed up, I sing four or five songs I already know, without accompaniment. I try to do different ones every day, so over a period of time, I go through the whole list. Then I try to get through whatever new song I'm working on (also without accompaniment), looking at the words only when I have to. I try to put in a minimum of a half-hour a day, but I don't always make it. I try, though.

An inhibiting factor is that I live in an apartment building, and if I hear that my upstairs neighbor is home, I get a bit "practice shy." On the one hand, I don't want to disturb her, and on the other, I'd just as soon not have people hear me make some of the really Gawd-awful sounds I can make when I'm practicing.

With the guitar, I warm up the fingers by playing a few chords, scales, and arpeggios, then sing the same songs I sang in the voice warm-up with accompaniment. Then, if I don't have a good accompaniment worked out for whatever new song I'm working on, I'll tinker and fuss with it a while. Then I sing a few more songs just 'cuz I feel like it.

At one time, I was on my way to becoming a halfway decent classical guitarist. Not a big repertoire, but I use to be able to impress the hell out of a coffeehouse audience by sticking a classic guitar solo somewhere into a set of songs, and I could play for meetings of the Seattle Classic Guitar Society without them pointing and giggling too much. But within recent decades, a lot of that has slid because I didn't have the time to keep it up. Right now, I'm trying to get my mojo back, so I put in a fair amount of time on the guitar. I have the Aaron Shearer manuals, Classic Guitar Technique, Vols I & II and The Christopher Parkening Guitar Method, Vols I & II, along with the Mel Bay editions of The Complete Carcassi Guitar Method, and The Complete Sor Studies for the Guitar by Fernando Sor, compiled and fingered by David Grimes. I spend an hour or more a day (well . . . most days) hopping back and forth between these, and I'm trying to re-up a lot of the pieces I used to play, along with learning some new ones. Segovia used to practice four to six hours a day, every day. I'm trying to gradually up my practice time.

Hope springs eternal. I just ordered a batch of books and manuals yesterday: Kitharologus: The Path to Virtuosity, by Ricardo Iznaola (he claims that there are only a limited number of movements on the guitar, and he has isolated these so they can be practiced and mastered separately, then when you encounter them in a new piece you're learning, it'll be old stuff); Technique, Mechanism, Learning, by concert and recording artist Eduardo Fernandez; Fretboard Logic SE: The Reasoning Behind the Guitar's Unique Tuning + Chords, Scales, and Arpeggios (The Fretboard Logic Guitar Method Parts I and II), by Bill Edwards; plus a couple of other manuals, including one on practicing for performance by Ricardo Iznaola.

I guess some folks got turned off because they were forced to practice when they were young, and that's really too bad. I think I grew up in a pretty musical family, although we were more listeners than performers. My mother took some piano lessons when she was a kid, and my younger sister had piano lessons when she was a sprat, but I chose to take some singing lessons when I was about eighteen, just for the fun of it, and because a couple of friends of mine were into opera and were taking lessons.   I had no idea what I would ever do with it. Then I decided I wanted to learn to play the guitar when I was about twenty. I was never forced to practice. As a result, I enjoy practicing. It's bloody hard work, but I like it. I don't do all of the stuff I outline above every day, but I do try, and sometimes I get in a fair amount of practice most days of the week.

Well, you did ask!

Don Firth

P. S. On the classic guitar stuff, I've taken to practicing with a metronome lately (Sabine ZipBeat-6000 Digital Metronome, they list for $35.00, but Amazon has them for about $20.00). I set it very slow, slow enough so I can play whatever exercise or piece I'm working on without making mistakes. Then I up the metronome a click or two and play it, again, hopefully without mistakes. I gradually increasing the speed until I can play it without goofing it several clicks faster than it should be played. Then, I back off and play it at the correct tempo. The adage is, "Don't practice your mistakes." It really seems to be helping.