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BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1
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Subject: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Once Famous Date: 22 Apr 06 - 04:56 PM Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended: * Fish and chips in London is over rated. Tried it a couple of times for highly recommended places by locals. This is a meal? McDonald's has better french fries and just what kind of fish is it anyway? No one's talking. * London is quite clean, at least in Westminster where I stayed. Hung out in Soho, Picadilly circus, also. Pretty wild and fun. * Meat in London is horrific. Someone needs to show them how to make a hamburger and what a steak is supposed to be. But good Italian food in London. Chinatown here is weird and they don't even know what an egg roll is. * Decadence galore as phone booths feature pre-printed sex ads that are stuck up inside them. No, didn't call any. * Mentioned in another thread, you have to ask for water in a restaurant here. Why? * Some nice helpful people, overall. But some rude people also. Riding the underground will get you shoved around when it is busy. More later.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM Being shoved around on the tube would be, I would think, far preferable to getting shot on the L. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Liz the Squeak Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:15 PM One comment MG, not every phone box has those cards you mention... there are people who are employed to go and take them out. There's also a person from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs whose job it is to go and call up these ladies and make sure they pay their taxes... they're classed as 'entertainers'.... LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:23 PM So tell us Martin, have you shared your Mudcat persona with your son while there? Curious minds want to know what your flesh and blood thinks of your persona. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Once Famous Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:25 PM Send me a PM, Oh Guest with no courage and I might just tell you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: bobad Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:42 PM Good answer, Martin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Sorcha Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:14 PM And, I found London quite filthy...East London at least...City centre wasn't so bad. So, ask for water...sheesh..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 07:18 PM Do any of you people who claim to know enough to tell us what London is like have any idea how big it is? And what area of it you actually saw? In martin's case about one square mile. Carry on with your in depth anaylsis! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:08 PM "McDonald's has better french fries" Shoestring chips have a much higher fat content than 'chunky chips'. The type of oil also affects taste - best British chips used to be done in lard. "Meat in London is horrific. Someone needs to show them how to make a hamburger and what a steak is supposed to be." Aussie meat is favoured for US hamburgers, and steaks, I'm told. Also cheap burger meat tastes different from prime ground beef. Can't send as much there as they(and we)'d like, and since UK joined EU, same thing there. But please don't come here, just take my word... British style 'burger patties' used to not be 100% meat, but contain grain products for fillers and extenders. British meat is more often used for more interesting dishes than hamburger patties, for which traditionally used only the lowest grades of meat were used = including lips, and the bits that we now know MG has eaten! :-) - they were often the food of the poor. You must not have eaten in Maccas - they insist that the food is the same best quality bland shit everywhere worldwide. Quality fish and chip shops used to let you select your type and piece from the display then batter and cook it on the spot. Narrow mindedness mainly consists in trying to prove to others that one is not interested in understanding others. "Surely far more interesting is a bore who doth roam, than one who has remained at home." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: yrlancslad Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:17 PM Yanks who visit (a small part of) London and then proceed to tell us about what the UK is like really piss me off. Plus denigrating the food from somebody whose national dish is the Frnkfurter is really rich! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: yrlancslad Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:21 PM Not to mention grits and okra! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: gnu Date: 22 Apr 06 - 09:38 PM Okay... let me say this... Marty, me lad... you know that since you and I had a "falling out" over a year ago, I have stepped to the side for most accounts, but... I must say... I am intrigued about your take on your tour. I actually do want to hear what you have to say. As long as it is factual and objective, I welcome it and hope to learn something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 06 - 10:27 PM I would take martin's observations with a very large grain of salt. It is not possible to walk into a fish and chip shop and ask for 'fish and chips'. They would look at you as if you had landed from Mars. There would be a big menu well displayed listing all the different fish. You choose and you get whatever you pick. He spoke to 'locals' in Westminster, Picadilly and Soho? I doubt it martin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:33 AM I had trouble finding good food when I was on my own in England, but not when I was with British Mudcatters - they made sure I was well fed. I kept hoping to find good Fish and Chips, but fish and chips I had was invariably bad - greasy and not quite done. I did find a pub in Whitby that serve a great Yorkshire pudding with roast meat. Bill Sables took me to a shop in York for a "pork shandy," which was the tastiest pork sandwich I ever ate - and I also had some terrific meals in the Sables house. Ian Chandler and his family served me their pet lamb for dinner one night - and it was delicious. Micca and Kat are both terrific cooks, so I ate well in London. But I did't like the fish and chips, and rarely found beer that I liked - there was one beer called "Grouse Beater" that was wonderful, but I found it only once. I like Newcastle Brown Ale, but that's something I dring at home all the time. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Once Famous Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:48 AM Traditional English food is basically..............rubbish! Most pubs I either was in or saw simply said "fish and chips" Has London ever heard what BBQ is? As far as English beer, I tried a few different ones. OK, but I liked the Bavarian beer in Munich better. Now here's one to rock you! Coca-Cola is better in Europe! The true American champagne. Why? Coke in Europe is made with sugar, like it was in the U.S. up until years ago. In the U.S., it is now made with corn syrup as a sweetner. Also, restaurants serve it frequently chilled in those wonderfully shaped famous glass bottles. Who needs a glass? Those bottles were designed to be picked up and drank from almost 100 years ago. The only thing wrong is the price. Way over inflated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST,G Date: 23 Apr 06 - 09:42 AM Gnu @9:38, great attitude - love the approach. Guest @10:27, Boorish as usual and as expected. (I know, but I still have a headache) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: alanabit Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:47 AM "Traditional English food is basically..............rubbish!" Er, are we talking about British farmhouse food, or about fish and chips, curries and hamburgers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: folk1e Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:07 AM Come on.... if we are going to have a North / South Divide it must be usefull for something ;¬D Pubs sell BEER if you want FOOD go to a reseraunt..... or dont moan about it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 23 Apr 06 - 12:59 PM I don't think most countries serve their traditional food in a pub. Of course if you're in Chicago, you can find wieners anywhere. Coke? Its hardly in the same category as beer or wine. Soda pop is for kids and shouldn't be served with meals. It rots your teeth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST,DG Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:12 PM Has London ever heard what BBQ is? Why would they? It's rubbish. Tips for eating in London from me (I live there, and I'm vegetarian so I couldn't care less what you think about the meat); Falafel - always a winner Indian Food - as above For traditional British food go to some traditional pubs, not chains. The same goes for drinking beer. If you don't like the beer, try lager - especially Sam Smiths if you can get it (although there is no music in Sam Smiths pubs). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Don Firth Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:34 PM The menu in American pubs (taverns) usually consists of beer nuts, small, overprice bags of potato chips, pretzels, and such, and if they have anything as substantial as a hamburger, it comes from a Juicy-Ray warming oven, has probably been sitting there for several hours (if not days), and tastes like grey mush on a soggy bun—generally referred to as "sweat-burgers" because of the beads of grease clinging to the inside of the waxed paper bag they're served in. The moral is, if you're looking for a book, don't go to a hardware store. If you want to buy flowers, don't go to a gas station. Kind of elementary. There used to be a chain of fish-and-chip shops—H. Salt Fish-and-Chips—around here that claimed to serve English-style fish and chips. How authentic it was, I don't know, but I was told by someone who should know (world traveler) that what they served there was pretty authentic. I loved 'em! Don't know whatever happened to H. Salt. I used to go there all the time. As a matter of fact, a few days before we were married, Barbara and I were moving our furniture into our new apartment, and our first meal in our new apartment consisted of sitting on boxes at a card table eating H. Salt fish-and-chips from a nearby shop—by candlelight. Rick Steves, travel expert, says that to really enjoy your travels and get the most out of your experience—and to avoid missing something really good that may be different from what you're used to—go with the flow. If something doesn't meet your expectations, then change your expectations. There is a good chance that you'll learn something. If you're open to it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:53 PM Listen up folks you are being taken for a ride and it isn't on a red bus. NO LOCAL IN LONDON would recommend a pub for fish and chips, any more than they would recommend a pint of beer from the chippy. Someone's telling porkies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST,Old Viking Date: 23 Apr 06 - 03:54 PM Since he's a hard-charging, flag-waving, American-first super-patriot (mask, cape, and a bald eagle on the chest of his red, white, and blue spandex body-stocking), I don't think you're going to hear anything good from Martin Gibson about anything in any place in the galaxy except for what's within smelling distance of Chicago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST,DG Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:02 PM One food related point I will say about Chicago (I'm heading there in 3 weeks) is that the pizzas there are incredible. The best I've ever had. Also the beer is insanely cheap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Don Firth Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:14 PM FYI – Fish & Chips. YUM!! Apparently THEY are still around, but no longer in Seattle. Really too bad! Thank you for reminding me, Martin. I'm going on a quest for a good English-style fish and chips shop. (Drool drool!!) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: pdq Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:23 PM Don't forget the Four Monks brand "English Style Malt Vinegar". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Don Firth Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:37 PM Verily! The Spud fish and chips shops out in West Seattle and by Green Lake (where I first encountered malt vinegar) are very good. But the H. Salt shops were marvelous! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:47 PM Why is your name not coming up as a 'guest' martin? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Sorcha Date: 23 Apr 06 - 04:48 PM You are so wrong about chips....even if I don't like fish. Check this out... Click! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Anonny Mouse Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM Hey Martin! Welcome back to the good ole US of A! Felt the same was flying into NYC a millenium ago, and seeing Ms. Liberty! I truly HOPE you were able to get in touch with your "roots" and maybe SEE and FEEL and EXPERIENCE the emotional fallout and spectres of the past at some of the so-called "death camps." I know it moved ME Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what I had so conveniently intellectualized. Even, if not THERE, many, many other places. Why do I harp on this?? Because, by human suffering, bravery, and dedication we ARE ONE!! Meanwhile, on the "fun-side" I hope you ate 'til yer heart's content, and drank until you were ready to pass out. There is NOTHING remotely close to a GOOD English or German Ale or brew!!!! As before, I wish you NO ill-will. You were gracious to me upon my entry here, and while I have bothered to read previous threads, folks can change, mature beyond their years, and FEEL history permeating their very cell structure. I wish this for you...and to all your naysayers here, a brief respite from the attack mode to the "wait and see" mode. Martin: you CAN be the "mensch" here. You can be a person people regard with esteem and integrity. You have seen a part of this little blue ball most any (or MANY) have not! I know you are better than the prolific and often profane "MG." Become what you know you are. End of my philosophic treatise for today. I have NOT seen the "wishing of a child dead," or mocking of a disabled person. Perhaps for the best. You have a "best" to offer. Do it, be it...the inevitable -A. Mouse! (no trap here---just well wishes that your serendipty was valuable-I don't see how it could NOT have been). Shalom with its multi-layered, multi-interpreted meaning! And yes, I am somewhat of a Hebrew enthusiast, so your response will NOT be in a vacuum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Jeri Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:43 PM Martin, when ARE you coming back? (GUEST, he probably just logged in.) I'm not that fond of the fish, but I loved the chips. Especially with a load of malt vinegar and salt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Grab Date: 23 Apr 06 - 05:45 PM Fish and chips in London is over rated. Hint: they're chips, not French fries. Fish-wise, it'll nearly always say on the menu/price-list. If it doesn't, it'll be cod (which is the default). London is quite clean, at least in Westminster where I stayed. Most cities seem to have cleaned up their act really well in the last 10 years or so - which is just as well, since the only difference between the town centre and the local landfill was the shops. Meat in London is horrific. And you'll continue to find the same all around the UK. Don't eat in *any* chain pub (Brewer's Fayre, Beefeater, Hungry Horse, etc) - it's all crap. But a good pub/restaurant in the UK should be as good as places in the US. Decadence galore as phone booths feature pre-printed sex ads that are stuck up inside them. Free market economy, dude... ;-) Mentioned in another thread, you have to ask for water in a restaurant here. Biggest rip-off in the UK is the price of soft drinks in pubs/restaurants - they have *huge* mark-ups. This is one thing the US does right and UK pubs have no excuse over. If they're taking the piss too much, get tapwater. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Sorcha Date: 23 Apr 06 - 06:13 PM But, oh my goodness, you have to ASK for water....heaven forbid!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:23 PM Hey, you have to ask for water here in California, too. they say it's a conservation measure. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: folk1e Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:36 PM Just checked, mine are hairy not crystal.... just like everyone else's If you don't ask, how do they know you want water? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:01 PM One thing you can do is crawl into the pub on your hands and knees, looking around haggardly and croaking..."W-a-a-a-ter! Wa-a-a-ter!" It helps if you have a parched and sunbleached appearance and are showing obvious signs of Sahara Desert level sunstroke. This usually will get you water served right away in most English pubs, unless it's a Fawlty Towers type of establishment, in which case they will ask you rude questions which are essentially nonsequitors not worth answering. Such stuffy places don't deserve your business anyway, and you should tell them so in no uncertain terms as you crawl back out the door. ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Ebbie Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:05 PM In London presenting yourself as looking 'haggard and sunstricken' would have about as much credibility as such a circumstance would in Juneau, Little Hawk. I understand they get just about as much rain as we do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Don Firth Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:43 PM I was just contemplating Martin's opening complaint in the other thread, which has since been merged with this one: "YOU CAN'T GO TO A RESTAURANT AND GET WATER WITHOUT BUYING IT. In america, they give you all of the water you want and then some." That's pretty true about America. Especially when what you've ordered is a beer! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: dianavan Date: 23 Apr 06 - 11:49 PM So true, Don. Especially stuff like Pabst Blue Ribbon and Lucky Lager. Do they still make that stuff? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Desert Dancer Date: 24 Apr 06 - 01:03 AM Here in Tucson you can get Mexican bottled Coke which is made with sugar instead of corn syrup. I'm no Coke fan, so haven't tried it, but others are happy about it. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:07 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Folkiedave Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:51 AM Whilst in Oregon I had some good beer and some crap beer, some good food and some crap food and some great service and some rude and surly service. I didn´t judge American beer by the bad beer and I didn´t judge American food by the crap food and I didn´t.....well you get the picture. I do hope you speak French and/or Spanish and German. You will find the rest of Europe very disappointing otherwise!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Georgiansilver Date: 24 Apr 06 - 02:53 AM True that the traditional 'fish and chips' are not the food force to be reckoned with that they were when I was much younger. The reason for this is the development of low fat food oils for cooking instead of the lard or beef dripping that was so prevalent in the 50's 60's. There are a few such chip shops remaining who use the traditional methods and I have driven over 60 miles just to get fish and chips (and peas) from them and found it worth it. By the way...fish, chips and peas are one of the healthiest of all the 'take away' meals in the UK, harbouring far less fat and calorific content than Indian/chines/cantonese etc. True that if you eat in the majority of pubs you will get boil in the bag veg and not always top rate meat...served at times without style or flavour. As with anywhere else...pay the price and get the goods..you pay for what you get! There are areas of the UK and certainly some pubs that serve excellent beer, especially 'Real ale' which is a favourite with the Folk scene. There is also a good choice of beer and dare I say something to suit every taste if you can find it. I believe that if I go to Tunisia or Spain or Romania..I can find a plethora of food and drink items that are not what I am used to as I would if I went to Chicago! Let's just keep things in perspective here. Martin (and a cross section of others I'm sure) have been to the UK and tried the fare here, finding it lacking to their taste, but may not have eaten at a class restaurant or drank real ale... So what I'm saying is:- we can all travel but enjoy our home comforts. The experience is good but there's no place like home. Best wishes, Mike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: alanabit Date: 24 Apr 06 - 04:00 AM The trouble with whistle stop tours, is that although they get you around quickly enough to take a few snapshots of famous buildings, they don't teach you much about the local culture! I could take you out every day for a month in Cologne and you would barely scratch the surface of the history and culture in this city. You could wander into a pub and drink a glass of Kölsch and then think you know what Kölsch tastes like. There are literally dozens of different types of Kölsch beer. Some of them I drink with relish, others I would not use to wash the mud off my boots. I hope you had a good time in London Martin. Your best chance of seeing something good there - let alone drinking and eating well at a reasonable price - is to spend a few days with your son, if he really knows his way around. Local knowledge is everything when you are travelling. Unless you get to know a few of the local people, all you really find is the same stuff you find in every other city. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Paco Rabanne Date: 24 Apr 06 - 05:18 AM Why doesn't anyone ever come to Hull? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:13 AM Lots of people go to Hull, Ted. Just that most of 'em won't admit it;-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Pied Piper Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:17 AM I'm still trying to work out what this strange combination of words means. "Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended" Is it a question? PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:23 AM "Has London ever heard what BBQ is? Why would they? It's rubbish." Sorry, but I could not let that comment slip by. My guess is that if this guest was exposed to BBQ, they probably had something that was served up as fast food - just like the way the fish & chips were apparently served to Martin. For our friends in the UK, you need to try BBQ that is done right - cooked at low temperaturs in a smoker, not something burned to a crisp over a grill. Lightly spiced, maybe some sauce on the side. Give me a nice brisket that has been tenderized in a smoker for 8 to 10 hours. Or some "dry" ribs that fall off the bone. No need for drenching in some sickly sweet sauce. Mmmmm... damn, I'm hungry already. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Apr 06 - 10:58 AM Yes, Of course, the only possible comment about English food, saying that BBQ is better. I've had Canadian BBQ, Cincinnati BBQ, Georgia BBQ, North Carolina BBQ, Texas BBQ and the King of all BBQ, Kansas City BBQ. They are all great in their own way but none are better than the Fish n'Chips I had in England. The idea of tourism is to enjoy what the new country has to offer, not to piss and moan about what is better about your home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Europe: observations/comments part 1 From: CarolC Date: 24 Apr 06 - 11:27 AM Not necessarily in any order and rather indifferent, as usual who is offended Pied Piper, I think it translates this way... "These are not necessarily in order, and I am rather indifferent, as I usually am, about who will be offended by what I say." ( ...hope this helps ;-) |
