BS: The Euston Manifesto

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:45 PM

Ifor your comments about these people backing the war put things into perpective. I just saw Julie BURCHILL is one of the signees. It was drafted by Norman Geras, professor in politics at Manchester University who said, "We did not want a socialist document but one which would appeal to others who are liberal and democrats." That immediately creates a division with someone like Professor Alex Callinicos.

it's a manifesto that reacts to some established positions and moves away from entrenched factionalism. or does it just create another faction?

it has a link on its website to an Appeal To Support Iraqi Trade Unions, and in in this page there are links to objections & responses to the document. I am going to check them out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: GUEST,Ifor
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:20 PM

Those individuals who produced the Euston Manifesto are discredited in Britain.Nick Cohen and the others supported vociferously the invasion and occupation of Iraq which has led to the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians including many women and children and the plunging of Iraq into a state of barbarism.

The producers of the manifesto supported the war gang, the recycled Reaganites , the Texas Oil Lobby ,right wing extremists, the Zionists and the New Labour heirarchy in their drive to invade Iraq using the "Shock and Awe" terror tactics we have come to see on our television screens.

Essentially they provided a left wing or liberal fig leaf for the onslaught...they were the liberal bombers who cheered on the attack and loudly condemned the anti war left in the Stop The War Coalition for opposing the invasion.

Of course they have been utterly discredited in the anti war and socialist left .But they have gone on to loudly berate, for example, the Socialist Workers Party for views which it does non hold and for political positions it does not take.They claim for instance that the SWP and Respect an anti war coalition are soft on Jihadis when Galloway the Respect MP has been threatened and physically attacked by Jihadi groups in Britain on several occasions.

The authors of the Euston Manifesto have been left politically high and dry by the mayhem and brutality in Iraq...and the murderous consequences of the US led invasion.

There is an ongoing realignment of left wing and anti capitalist forces in Britain but as Prof Alex Callinicos has written recently those involved in the realignment will not be looking to a bunch of former leftists pro war apologists for advice or inspiration.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:14 PM

While there may be one or two minor nits to pick, I generally agree with the statements in the Manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:08 PM

People from the UK will read the names on the list of supporters of this manifesto and probably understand better where they're coming from.

The phrasing is strong and I don't agree with all of it, but I think its worth reading. I don't think its any vindication of Guantanamo that people arent being exterminated there - and the War on Terror has been big on eroding human rights and very poor on suppressing terrorism - it has accelerated it.

Here is an article about it from the BBC online:

Internationalist manifesto causes a stir

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM

freda,

While I agree with most of the Manifesto, the following I predict will not be acceptable to most of those who regularly post here.


"The founding supporters of this statement took different views on the military intervention in Iraq, both for and against. We recognize that it was possible reasonably to disagree about the justification for the intervention, the manner in which it was carried through, the planning (or lack of it) for the aftermath, and the prospects for the successful implementation of democratic change. We are, however, united in our view about the reactionary, semi-fascist and murderous character of the Baathist regime in Iraq, and we recognize its overthrow as a liberation of the Iraqi people. We are also united in the view that, since the day on which this occurred, the proper concern of genuine liberals and members of the Left should have been the battle to put in place in Iraq a democratic political order and to rebuild the country's infrastructure, to create after decades of the most brutal oppression a life for Iraqis which those living in democratic countries take for granted — rather than picking through the rubble of the arguments over intervention.

This opposes us not only to those on the Left who have actively spoken in support of the gangs of jihadist and Baathist thugs of the Iraqi so-called resistance, but also to others who manage to find a way of situating themselves between such forces and those trying to bring a new democratic life to the country. We have no truck, either, with the tendency to pay lip service to these ends, while devoting most of one's energy to criticism of political opponents at home (supposedly responsible for every difficulty in Iraq), and observing a tactful silence or near silence about the ugly forces of the Iraqi "insurgency". The many left opponents of regime change in Iraq who have been unable to understand the considerations that led others on the Left to support it, dishing out anathema and excommunication, more lately demanding apology or repentance, betray the democratic values they profess."



"possible reasonably to disagree about the justification for the intervention" is NOT a Mudcat-viable statement.

Subject: RE: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:51 PM

Well worth reading, and presents some hope to me that the more liberal viewpoint might actually deal with reality at some time in the near future.

But I suspect this will be like my "Liberal Hate thread", and the ideas it brings up will be ignored.

Subject: BS: The Euston Manifesto
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:48 PM

I'm starting a new thread about something I read about in an article in the Observer - the Euston Manifesto.

This manifesto is put together by a bunch of lefties in the UK. It states a number of principles that some may strongly agree or disagree with, but also decries anti-democratic and reactionary regimes that oppress their own peoples and movements that aspire to do so. "We draw a firm line between ourselves and those left-liberal voices today quick to offer an apologetic explanation for such political forces."

It also comments: We reject the double standards with which much self-proclaimed progressive opinion now operates, finding lesser (though all too real) violations of human rights which are closer to home, or are the responsibility of certain disfavoured governments, more deplorable than other violations that are flagrantly worse. We reject, also, the cultural relativist view according to which these basic human rights are not appropriate for certain nations or peoples."

The manifesto also takes an opinion on Israel and the US that challenges some left wing people.

This comment on cultural relativism (the view that people within certain ethnic groups or social groups have different rights and responsibilities) is one of the big issues of the decade. It impacts particularly within religions, where religious or ethnic leaders like to maintain their own standards of morality, and promote those standards as a way of demonising others who dont follow those standards. Effectively they can deny their followers the legal and social rights that other members of society have.

I believe that western governments are coming to the view that all their citizens are equally entitled to protection under the law. This means that civil divorces will take precedent over religious divorces, and minorities will have to go outside their leadership, or change aspects of their their culture, to achieve social equality for their followers.

In other words, the greatest challenge for multicultural societies will be to uphold both western human rights standards and the dignity of minoritiy groups.

freda