BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 08:23 PM

If the money that was spent on the destsruction of Iraq had gone into food, education and medicine, the Iraq may have eventually evolved into a democracy.

Since when do you bring democracy to a country by destroying it?

...and where is all the money that was supposed to be spent on the infrastructure?

No, I am not happy about the death of al-Zarqawi because his death will create a hundred more terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: DougR
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 08:37 PM

Nice to come back on the Mudcat from time to time to reaffirm that there a lot of pathetic, negative, sick thinking folks on it.

As far a Berg's dad is concened, in my opinion he doesn't row with both oars in the water.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Stan
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:02 PM

Good riddance to a savage murderer. To applaud his overdue demise is not to approve of everything the US has done in the world. He was a seriously evil man and he got what he deserved.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:21 PM

Pax, Shalom, Salaam, and Mir-u Mir, Bruce!

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:29 PM

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Actually how that Pogo quote appeared it was slightly different:

WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US

Those capital letters for the last word make for an interesting alternative reading.

.................
If the killing of al-Zarqawi means that fewer innocent people will be butchered by people who think the same way as he did that is something to welcome. But there is no reason whatsoever to think that this is necessarily true. It doesn't work that way. Apply the same logic to people who have killed much larger numbers of people. Did the killing of Kennedy stop the war in Vietnam?

I'm inclined to think that 282RA up the thread is right in saying that the death of Zarqawi is pretty good news for Iraqis involved in fighting against the occupation, and even for Al Qaeda.

That is of course assuming that he is dead - this isn't the first time it has been reported that he has been killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:31 PM

"Pax, Shalom, Salaam, and Mir-u Mir, Bruce!"

Back atcha, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:47 PM

So, there are people with rusty machetes poised to attack Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:50 PM

Yes. They want the oil. Obvious, Watson. The machetes are rusty.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 06 - 09:52 PM

Nice to come back on the Mudcat from time to time to reaffirm that there a lot of pathetic, negative, sick thinking folks on it.

One of the most pathetic posted on 09 Jun 06 at 08:37 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 12:54 AM

It's a war, this buggar did his disgusting stuff. Now the other side, us, did ours, and blew him to where he belongs, hell.

Good riddance, not a day too soon either.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:20 AM

"U.S. troops twice launched massive invasions of Fallujah, the stronghold used by al-Qaida in Iraq fighters and other insurgents west of Baghdad. An April 2004 offensive left the city still in insurgent hands, but the October 2004 assault wrested it from them. However, al-Zarqawi _ if he was in the city _ escaped." - CBS news

So it only cost 400+ lives and the destruction of Fallujah to eventually kill one man.

Even FOX news knows that al-Zarqawi is the least of the problems in Iraq. The threat by terrorists in Iraq is very small compared to the sectarian violence which has erupted between Sunnis and Shiites. Its a civil war, now, and the death of one terrorist is
insignificant.

If he had been brought to trial for the beheadings, that would have been a reason to rejoice but to destroy a city and hundreds of civilians has nothing to do with justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 08:31 AM

Odd. The military has decided that the child killed in the airstrike is... no longer a child? General Casey, of course, said that a woman and child were among the dead. Now, his underling, Major General William Caldwell, says that there were no children. Whew! Now (*crosses fingers*) we can all enjoy the carnage, guilt free!

Dave: Hmm? I didn't say anything about... Oh. I see. Sorry for being so oblique. My last post was just my roundabout way of calling you a racist, prompted by your latest anti-Arab bullshit. Yanno, the stuff about us whiteys being better than them Arab darkies, an' stuff. Your usual material, in other words.

Anyways, no, I can't see the people dancing (except, as I mentioned, some of "the Arabs" in Iraq, who were even dancing in the streets! Savages.), as this is a text based deal. But lots of applause and celebrating. Or whatever you choose to call it when WE do it.

Doug: "Negative?" What could be more negative than crowing over an air strike that (according to initial reports) killed a child? I mean, honestly, I couldn't care less whether Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed or not. But if I did, and if I were the sort of person who thought it was a wonderful thing, I certainly wouldn't call this "good news," considering the circumstances. But who am I to rain on your parade with all this "dead child" nonsense? I apologise. Strut and hoot and pretend you have like-minded friends to high-five, and enjoy your imagined "victory," little man. It's nice to have something to live for.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 09:17 AM

This whole story is such BS. Do you know what two 500 pound bombs would do to a house? He would have been jellyfied. Such BS.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060609/D8I4VN101.html

This is the guy who was supposed to have killed Nick Berg (a probably CIA operative). Cut off his head on video. But experts say the film is bogus. al-Zarqawi had a wooden leg, yet the man with the saw in the video was moving around spryly, no limp, etc. Wearing rings and a watch. English being spoken in the background. Fake screams piped in, etc. A CIA psy-op.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 11:41 AM

Lepus I am not a racist I made a statement publicly condemning terrorists on this forum, and still hold that position; and reserve the right to state that WE on this forum and around the world (aka any human beings of any race and belief ) are totally disgusted by it. I am neither anti Arab anti Muslim nor anti Jew; I am however anti any culture that preaches the type of murderous actions of 9-11 are justifiable or worthy of celebration.

Your miserable attempts to debate otherwise are thereby exonerating this type of disgusting criminal activity as justified. As such you are acting like a Nazi, and your methods are beyond the pale of any acceptable human consideration. Are you a member of the human race?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Foxy
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 11:58 AM

According to Dianavan, "Even FOX news knows that al-Zarqawi is the least of the problems in Iraq."

Dianavan claims to be in Canada, yet she watches Fox News, a cable channel that is not available in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 12:11 PM

Ever heard of the internet?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198651,00.html

Thats a pretty lame attempt at a put down, Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 01:54 PM

"Fox News, a cable channel that is not available in Canada."

we do have cable and satellite T.V. up here in the frozen north, in case you are unaware.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM

Thanks, Greg. I highly value your opinions too!

McGrath: I really believe the creator to Pogo, Walt Kelly, had in mind, "us" not, as you would obviously prefer, U. S. Read into it of course anything you wish.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Foxy
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:40 PM

"Fox News, a cable channel that is not available in Canada."

we do have cable and satellite T.V. up here in the frozen north, in case you are unaware.

sIx

*******

Hey sIxy,

I suppose you are unaware that the CRTC refuses to allow Fox News on Canadian cable and satellite services.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:51 PM

Dave: Oh, OK. So, you fair-minded non racist, you, when you're talking about this "WE," who you claim are "any human beings of any race and belief," you're not excluding "the Arabs?" Because, and maybe I'm nuts, but when you wrote: "Unlike the Arabs who celebrated 9-11 by dancing in the streets; WE do not celebrate any death," it seemed to me like you're saying two things: 1. "The Arabs" are seperate from "us," and 2. "WE" are morally and culturally superior to "them." Then, you followed that up with: "I am however anti any culture that preaches the type of murderous actions of 9-11 are justifiable or worthy of celebration." In other words, as you claim that "they" were dancing in the streets, it's the culture of "the Arabs" that you oppose, right? Racist.

This impression becomes clearer when one takes into account your recent posting history. Yanno, stuff like this: "We have been informed that the Islamic terrorists do not like to be called 'Towel Heads' since the item they wear on their heads is actually a small folded sheet. Therefore, from this point forward, please refer to them as 'little sheet heads.'" Oh, sure, you can say "I was only talking about the terrorists!" Because we're always hearing them complaining about which racist terms they like or dislike, right? Bullshit. The only people who've complained about being called "towel heads," "rag heads," "sand niggers," "dune coons," etc., are those people (mainly Muslim, Hindu and Sikh) who've been targeted with such racist slurs here in the West. Or maybe it'll be: "But it was just a joke!" Whatever, dude. Tell that to the family of Balbir Singh Sodhi, whose killer expressed a desire to "go out and shoot some towel heads" before the murder. Hilarious.

And then we have this, and, yeah, all emphasis mine: "Tolerance and Cultural differences aside, these Muslims would do well to remember that in our culture we use dark humour and do not supress freedom of speech. But according to them we are infidels and not worthy of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh, and music is wrong too, that should be banned it upsets them so much. Fuck appeasement, they need to get laid more often and join the 21st century. Tolerance is not something I see when thousands of them are threatening death to all the west because a Danish newspaper showed a cartoon that they consider offensive." So, you demand tolerance and understanding for "your" people and culture, and expect "them" to realise that "one newspaper cartoon does not speak for the entire western world." And then you lump "these Muslims" into one big "them" and deride "their" culture? Wow, hypocritical and racist!

So... Gotta stick with my "Dave is a racist" thing. Sorry. Nice try with that "Nazi" comment, though. And questioning my humanity. You'd think I was an Arab!

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: number 6
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:55 PM

OH o.k .... then what is this?

crtc approves Fox back in 2004

I also see it available on my Cable listing.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 02:58 PM

Guest Foxy: no point in Canadians being exposed to both sides of the story, right? Fox News is the only channel I know of that offers both conservative and liberal points of view to be aired.

Incidentially, I truly hope that Zarqawi was concious enough to realize that U. S. Special Forces and Iriqi police were his captors before he died, and I hope he died a very painful death. Too bad he couldn't have suffered a bit longer before entering the gates of hell.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM

Both side of what story, Doug?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:07 PM

Wow, you're one sick, sadistic dude, Doug! Have you thought of trading that mint-green polyester jumpsuit for military fatigues? I mean, they're totally desperate right now, and you've got that "Abu Ghraib" spirit!

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:14 PM

As usual both sides here miss the point. There can never be joy in killing. There can never be celebration of a death. I am just as saddened by those who are unhappy about this man's death as I am by those that are happy. If this cruel bastards death is to be celebrated, then would it be justifiable for the Iraqi's to drop a 500 pound bomb on the brig that holds the Marines who it appears killed innocents with intent are in?

I am completely disgusted by a man who would cut off another person's head. I am just as disgusted by a man who would take an M16 and kill unarmed civilians. I am even more disgusted by a man who makes war on a false pretense, unleashes bombs on innocent civilians on the basis of a lie, and continues to try and justify the deaths of our young ones and their young ones on the basis of some phoney justification and poll numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:17 PM

Guess you don't have a sense of humour either Lepus?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:43 PM

Hmm? Oh, I already covered the "it's just a joke!" defense, Dave. I'm not really interested in your "humour," anyways, just the sentiments behind it. And the joke... Even for a racist joke, it's not very good. Too much set-up, and the punch line is just a lame-ass pun. You could always repeat your almost-as-unfunny "72 Viriginians" knee-slapper for the four-hundreth time. Seriously, it never gets old.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 03:46 PM

You two guys: You are both good people. Go to your respective corners, take a deep breath and then shake hands. Otherwise I won't tell you the answer to the following: What's the difference between a bag of 629 used condoms and an old tire on the side of the road?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 05:17 PM

You might well be right about that Doug - or it might have been intendeed as ambiguous. But I would imagine that for most Americans "us" and "US" would mean much the same anyway.
.................

As for Dave's assertion about how no one is celebrating and rejoicing at this death, well, that certainly doesn't square with the way it's been covered in some of the British tabloid papers.

There really isn't that much difference between the way people respond to violent death in different parts of the world. Even when it comes to suicide bombings and such - there've been any number of war films with people choosing to die so as to take more of the enemy with them, and this being seen as heroic and admirable.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM

I don't think his death should be celebrated; I do think it should be welcomed.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 05:23 PM

It's good news (Getting Zarqawi). You don't have to make an issue of how or if you're going to celebrate. It's like finding out they got a bad tumor. It's better than not getting it. Yeah, it might lead to other tumors, but it might not. News still pending.

We needed some good news. We know it ain't over, and we're sure not rooting for the so-called insurgents, are we? <=loaded question.

A lot of Iraqis have cause to celebrate this, the kind who were getting blown up as part of Zarqawi's earnest attempt to foment a civil war, which was pretty much all kinds.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:54 PM

Fox News is the only channel I know of that offers both conservative and liberal points of view to be aired.

If anyone ever wondered if Douggie is suffering from any number of serious psychoses and cognitive dysfunctions, here's your proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Arne
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 06:54 PM

Teribis:

Only trouble with that arguement is that Ansar al-Islam's camp was NOT in the Northern "No-Fly" Zone. The campe lies south-east of it and is conveniently close to the Iranian border to let those who have to skip across to avoid any unpleasantness.

Without sources, it's a bit hard to evaluate Teribus's claims.

There is: this, and this, for example, in support of Teribus's contentions.

But there's this and this to the contrary.

But it's pretty uch menaingless quibbling. The "no-fly zone" was meant to protect Kurdish areas in the North from Saddam, and for that it worked pretty well, allowing the establishment of independent Kurdish zones of control there (one under the KDP and one under the rival PUK), and all accounts above agree that the Ansar al-Islam camps in and around Halabja were within the PUK controlled area. And as one commenter on the firts link above noted, it was in part the "no-fly" zones that enabled the Kurdish enclaves.

Which, of course, is what matters here; Ansar wasn't in an area under Saddam's control. Sorry if I used an inaccurate shorthand for the northern zones under Kurdish control (assuming that in fact the "no-fly zone was set rigidly at the 36th parallel, something that's also not quite obvious; the U.S. repeatedly flew into areas below it, and challenged any aircraft at all if they even looked cross-eyed at the U.S... or had the temerity to fly, period).

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 07:36 PM

And they'd have been more likely to have skipped across from Iran as a way "to avoid any unpleasantness". Al Qaida weren't any more popular in Iran than it was in the parts of Iraq under Saddam's control. Intentionally or not, the US provided Ansar with a sanctuary inside Iraq, within the no-fly zone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 10 Jun 06 - 10:15 PM

Oh for heaven's sakes, quit bickering!

What has to be done, has to be done. Its done, lets move on to the next monster and do what has to be done.

Again none of it a day too soon for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 02:58 PM

Here's the point of view of one Iraqi blogger:

Zarqawi...
So 'Zarqawi' is finally dead. It was an interesting piece of news that greeted us yesterday morning (or was it the day before? I've lost track of time…). I didn't bother with the pictures and film they showed of him because I, personally, have been saturated with images of broken, bleeding bodies.

The reactions have been different. There's a general consensus amongst family and friends that he won't be missed, whoever he is. There is also doubt- who was he really? Did he even exist? Was he truly the huge terror the Americans made him out to be? When did he actually die? People swear he was dead back in 2003… The timing is extremely suspicious: just when people were getting really fed up with the useless Iraqi government, Zarqawi is killed and Maliki is hailed the victorious leader of the occupied world! (And no- Iraqis aren't celebrating in the streets- worries over electricity, water, death squads, tests, corpses and extremists in high places prevail right now.)

I've been listening to reactions- mostly from pro-war politicians and the naïveté they reveal is astounding. Maliki (the current Iraqi PM) was almost giddy as he made the news public (he had even gone the extra mile and shaved!). Do they really believe it will end the resistance against occupation? As long as foreign troops are in Iraq, resistance or 'insurgency' will continue- why is that SO difficult to understand? How is that concept a foreign one?

"A new day for Iraqis" is the current theme of the Iraqi puppet government and the Americans. Like it was "A New Day for Iraqis" on April 9, 2003 . And it was "A New Day for Iraqis" when they killed Oday and Qusay. Another "New Day for Iraqis" when they caught Saddam. More "New Day" when they drafted the constitution… I'm beginning to think it's like one of those questions they give you on IQ tests: If 'New' is equal to 'More' and 'Day' is equal to 'Suffering', what does "New Day for Iraqis" mean?

How do I feel? To hell with Zarqawi (or Zayrkawi as Bush calls him). He was an American creation- he came along with them- they don't need him anymore, apparently. His influence was greatly exaggerated but he was the justification for every single family they killed through military strikes and troops. It was WMD at first, then it was Saddam, then it was Zarqawi. Who will it be now? Who will be the new excuse for killing and detaining Iraqis? Or is it that an excuse is no longer needed- they have freedom to do what they want. The slaughter in Haditha months ago proved that. "They don't need him anymore," our elderly neighbor waved the news away like he was shooing flies, "They have fifty Zarqawis in government."

So now that Zarqawi is dead, and because according to Bush and our Iraqi puppets he was behind so much of Iraq's misery- things should get better, right? The car bombs should lessen, the ethnic cleansing will come to a halt, military strikes and sieges will die down… That's what we were promised, wasn't it? That sounds good to me. Now- who do they have to kill to stop the Ministry of Interior death squads, and trigger-happy foreign troops?


- posted by river @ 12:47 AM

---

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 03:22 PM

Thanks Amos - That says it all.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was insignificant to the Iraqi people.

Who cares about the death of one man when your country is in the middle of a civil war. His death will change nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 08:29 PM

Al Queda in Iraq leader al-Zarquari is dead.

And now the Haditha case against the Marines is falling apart. It appears that the "young" reporter (there is a picture) who is also a founder of a human rights group has some questions to answer.

    Why start a human rights group if you want to remain anonymous? And why did Time pretend their source was young? Why did they pretend he had no involvement with Hammurabi? (When in fact he is its founder.)

    But that is just the start of the many questionable aspects of Thabit's accounts.

    Bear in mind that this "budding journalism student" waited until the next day to videotape this alleged atrocity, which supposedly happened on his very doorstep.

    Note that this same "budding journalism student" and self-proclaimed human rights watcher did not bother to turn over his video to a media outlet or a real human rights group from November 2005 until March 2006. A four month delay.

    That's how eager they were to make sure such a crime is never again repeated.

Read the whole thing to get the full context for the reporters on the case. Time Magazine is not looking too good either.

Even more interesting is the full social context of what is happening in Haditha. It may be all about an effort to extract more blood money out of the US Military.

    On the side of a road in a ramshackle tent tribal elders have gathered for a court case, but it is not an ordinary law court, it's a tribal court. The case defies logic - one brother has killed another, but the tribe they belonged to is blaming a rival tribe for the killing.

    Their argument is that if there had not been a feud with the other tribe, the killing would not have taken place; they are now demanding $20,000 in blood money….

    At the tribal court, the discussion is heated, but not about guilt or innocence. Through a complex network of tribal support, both sides know where they stand, now it is just a matter of agreeing the money.

    Eventually the price is knocked down to $4,000 and a woman, her value to be determined in later negotiations.

    For many Iraqis it's a system that works, and in a violent region recompense appears much more practical than locking someone away.

The article has more on the blood money system and how it relates to the news from Haditha and a previous British case.

    The logic in the British case and possibly in Haditha is simple: If the coalition did not have a fight with the insurgents, the deaths would not have occurred. The deaths cause a loss in the resources of the tribe. The tribe cannot file a claim with Zarqawi--he might chop their heads off--therefore it is the coalition that owes blood money. In the eyes of tribal people such as Haditha residents, this debt is owed regardless of who actually killed the 24 people in Haditha or the circumstances of those deaths. The payment of blood money is not an admission of guilt; it is a balancing of tribal obligations.

    What tribal Iraqis would understand as blood money has in fact already been paid by US military representatives in Haditha. According to the May 31 New York Times payments totaling $38,000 were made "within weeks of the shootings" to the families of 15 of the 24 dead.

So they already have gotten their blood money. Could it be they are trying to enhance the deal? An excerpt from the New York Times quoted in the article:

    In an interview Tuesday, Maj. Dana Hyatt, the officer who made the payments, said he was told by superiors to compensate the relatives of 15 victims, but was told that rest of those killed had been deemed to have committed hostile acts, leaving their families ineligible for compensation.

    After the initial payments were made, however, those families demanded similar payments, insisting their relatives had not attacked the marines, Major Hyatt said….

    The list of 15 victims deemed to be noncombatants was put together by intelligence personnel attached to the battalion, Major Hyatt said. Those victims were related to a Haditha city council member, he said. The American military sometimes pays compensation to relatives of civilian victims.

    The relatives of each victim were paid a total of $2,500, the maximum allowed under Marine rules, along with $250 payments for two children who were wounded. Major Hyatt said he also compensated the families for damage to two houses.

    "I didn't say we had made a mistake," Major Hyatt said, describing what he had told the city council member who was representing the victims. "I said I'm being told I can make payments for these 15 because they were deemed not to be involved in combat."

The article from the Hawaii Reporter has much more on the Haditha Stories discrepancies and the blood money system. Read it all.

The Marine who gave lurid details of the Haditha "crime" may have had a motive for being a fabulist.

    Others have noted many weird aspects to Corporal Briones' previous statements about being ordered to photograph the Haditha victims, and his further claims about his camera being stolen.

    It is highly questionable that the Marines would order a rank and file soldier to do such a thing. And to use his own (non-official) camera to document such an important, possibly criminal event.

    It is also highly improbably that they would enlist someone who could himself face future charges in such an effort.

    And, lastly, it is very unlikely that they would allow such valuable evidence as these photos to disappear.

    This latest news, however, may very well shed light on Briones' motives.

    Apparently all of Briones' statements to the media about being ordered to photograph the Haditha corpses were made after his drunken hit and run felony on April 3, 2006. (His first appearance in the press seems to be an interview with the Los Angeles Times on May 29, 2006.)

    If Briones was so traumatized by what he saw in Haditha, why did he wait six months to tell anyone about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 08:39 PM

Well, today is a good day. The urge to express my feelings is so strong that I am back at the keyboard despite the terrible apathy that has gripped me these last months. You can probably guess at some of the reasons for this state of mind. I am not going into details. Only it seems to me that intelligent people should not pay such a high price just to learn some few facts that have always seemed to me quite simple and mundane.

But I don't plan to go into that today, because today is a good day indeed. An arch zombie has been blown to smithereens. You know, I am the sort of guy who gets distressed at the sight of blood and cannot bear the sight of even a dead animal, believe it or not. But you know, I was shocked at my own feelings of pleasure on beholding the photo of the dead face of Zarqawi. I would never have thought that possible. I have never felt this way my whole life. Yet the atrocities and outrages that these pseudo humans, these misanthropes, have perpetrated have engendered such anger, such sorrow, such rage that not even the most peaceful of souls can control their hatred of these criminals. My only regret was that the death was fast and sudden, and I felt pain that the true martyr of our country our beloved Ussama Al-Jadaan could not witness this day which he had predicted and played a big role in bringing about.

Well, I am not going to dwell on the reaction of people like Al Jazeera (again) who showed their true color today without even any attempt at dissimulation. So this arch murderer of day laborers, bakers, school children and etc. etc., this master be-header of poor hostages and planner of car bombings and all kinds of the most outrageous orgies of mass killings; this man is to be mourned and regretted as a martyr and mujahid etc. etc.!!! Yes, friends, believe it or not these sentiments were expressed openly and repeated hysterically on mass media like the notorious one referred to above. I still cannot understand why when whole countries and regimes are labeled as rogue states and suffer sanctions and the like when, here we have an official state owned media outlet that has played a major role in inciting and aiding and abetting the most violent forms of terrorism; and nothing has been done against them and those who sponsor and finance them. Indeed the state that harbors this state of affairs enjoys the blessings and the best of relations with the west and the free world.

But it is not that which I want most to say today. I want to congratulate the valiant eagles of the American Air force and all the men of the U.S. Army, the Iraqi security forces and all those involved in executing this just punishment and for being the instrument of providential justice. Blessed be the wombs that bore you, and please accept this expression of gratitude and love from an ordinary Iraqi man. And as for you American people rest assured that our faith in victory has not shaken on single iota. I can only end with the words of our dear President Bush: "God Bless Iraq and May God continue to Bless America".

Al Salam Alaykum

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 08:42 PM

Sunday, June 11, 2006

Some are sad just because we're happy.
Hamas's reaction to the death of Zarqawi caused the contempt of so many Iraqis. The printed and watched Iraqi media lashed out vigorously on Hamas, politicians and ordinary people on the streets are just equally angered by some Arabic official and media reactions which spoke of the criminal as if he were a hero.

It is totally unimaginable why someone would describe the head chopping, children murdering terrorist as a hero. It's disgusting and infuriating beyond words.

This wrongful description of evil is a major reason for misery in this region and it only contributes to justifying more unjustifiable death and violence. This makes one sometimes whishes that Iraq is somehow lifted away from these perverted sociopaths who surround us.

To say I was angry is the least I can say to describe how I felt reading the comments from Arabs on a BBC forum. There was no surprise that all Iraqi commentators were pleased that we got rid of that vicious terrorists but on the other hand there was probably 90% of non-Iraqi Arab commentators who mourned him as a martyr.

Here I'm choosing only one comment that drew my attention because it shows how when hate prejudice reaches certain levels it blinds the minds and hearts of people.
This one comment maybe the most accurate to describe how thousands if not millions think in this region; this Arab commentator is telling frankly why he's sad without lying and without using decorated speech.
I think it reflects the truth in the way of thinking of unfortunately many Arabs; a truth that was released by an individual mouth carrying more courage of expression than those who appease and keep their inside hidden…

    Zarqawi's death means nothing at all because it's the byproduct of the despotic policy that exists in his home country, Jordan.
    There are thousands of Zarqawis in our nation who are getting persecuted and terrorized so they found their way to Iraq where they can vent, thanks to America who brought destruction to the region with the help of her agents (the rulers). And for your information, our information about Zarqawi is vague…is he a national hero, or a criminal terrorist? We don't know for sure but we see that our enemies are so happy that he's killed and that is what makes me feel sad for his death.



I'll end this with a comment from Iraq…

    I used to be against killing people because of their perverted opinions or their anti-freedom doings but after I have seen and lived through their terrorism and anti-humanity extremism I say now that the only solution is to end the life of those who are not even humans. They poison the minds and thoughts of sane people.

    People, let the world live in freedom and happiness…
    I say it to all the sane and rational people; congratulations on the death of Zarqawi.

I couldn't agree more, so if you are sane, come celebrate the moment with us, but if not, get prepared to mourn more demons.

Posted by Mohammed

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 08:53 PM

Is that Woody, or Wordy?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 09:01 PM

or possibly Nugatory?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 09:11 PM

Saturday, June 10, 2006
The death of Abu Mus`ab al-Zarqawi is a very welcome news. This, however, is not enough, since too much has been said about this particular terrorist that many people feel that his death is going to change things dramatically. I am sad to say that it will not.

What will change things dramatically is for the Iraqi government to activate the judiciary and begin processing those who are sitting in detention waiting to be released in some fishy deal every once in a while. Terrorists in Iraq should be dealt with in the same manner elsewhere. They should be tried in a fast fashion and made examples of.

They just released a group from detention in the name of the so-called 'national reconciliation.' When they are captured they are said to be terrorists and when they release them arbitrarily they call them detainees.

Abu Mus`ab was a rotten terrorist who committed every disgraceful act on the books.

# posted by Abbas Khadim : 12:27 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 09:29 PM

Woody - So who are you? Al Salam Alaykum, Mohammed or Abbas Khadim?

I am assuming that you are none of the above and copy and pasted but I can't tell where your thoughts end and their's begin.

...but it seems that 2 out of 3 say that al-Zarqawi's death is insignificant. I agree.

The third one refers to the beloved Ussama Al-Jadaan. Who is this?

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 06 - 09:44 PM

Ala'a

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: DougR
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 05:31 PM

danavan: I see now how you reach many of your conclusions. Amos posts one message from one Iraqi citizen (at least he/she says he/she is) stating an opinion and to you, that's the opinion of the whole population of Iraq. Funny.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 06:11 PM

Douggie: I see now how you reach your own conclusions. You make the shit up as you go along.

Not funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:24 PM

DougR - You seem to be able to read but your comprehension is very low. I was responding to what Woody wrote, as well as what Amos wrote. From what I have gathered, the Iraqi people could care less about al-Zarqawi, one way or another. If you know differently then please provide a source.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:30 PM

Well, apparently Al Zarqawi lived and was conscious up until he was taken into custody, so he had the capacity to know he was going into the enemy's power, and most bitterly he was able to realize that he'd never get to know how this year's World Cup Soccer was going to come out.

This is another area where the American occupation could show a little class, providing good coverage for something guaranteed to keep a lot of Iraqis off the streets. I'm sure such service could be provided for less than the reward to whosomever fingered our boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bye Bye Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:31 PM

For render unto Television after all!