BS: Winning Friends in Iraq

Subject: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:16 AM

"Video posted to the Internet, telling a tale about a US Marine killing members of an Iraqi family, is being condemned by an Islamic group and investigated by the Marine Corps."

"The four-minute video, called "Hadji Girl",, appears to be sung by a Marine in front of a cheering audience. The lyrics talk about the Marine gunning down members of an Iraqi woman's family after they confront him with automatic weapons".

"The singer is shown playing a guitar and singing about meeting an Iraqi woman and then being confronted by her brother and father, who have guns. The lyrics describe the Marine pulling the woman's little sister in front of him and watching blood spurt from her head."


Source: MSNBC (AP)--13 June 2006

Anybody heard anything about this? Was this video in fact done by a Marine?

If so, it tends to confirm what Murtha is saying--US forces are under such strain in Iraq that some are cracking. Not all, by a long shot--but it doesn't take many to sour relations in a big hurry--as we're already seeing. Al Jazeera will have a field day with this story--especially if it's true.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:20 AM

Sounds like black propaganda to me.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:28 AM

I have no idea if it is true. But have you ever heard Toby Keith's song "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue" --"we'll put a boot up your ass--it's the American way"? This would be a logical progression.

The idea of solving all problems with violence seems to be dear to Bush's heart--and those of his supporters. Their excuse here would be that the father and brother were armed. And there's a bit of "collateral damage".

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:38 AM

The singer also "sings about blowing the father and brother "to eternity".

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:29 AM

"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind".

It happened in WWII too...

Both USA and Israel will have to live with a generation of tortured souls from the shady tasks they have been expected to undertake - it takes time to burst out - the USA learned nothing from Vietnam...

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:42 AM

American Girls and American Guys
We'll always stand up and salute
We'll always recognize
When we see Ole Glory Flying
There's a lot of men dead
So we can sleep in peace at night
When we lay down our head

My daddy served in the army
Where he lost his right eye
But he flew a flag out in our yard
Till the day that he died
He wanted my mother, my brother, my sister and me
To grow up and live happy
In the land of the free.

Now this nation that I love
Has fallen under attack
A mighty sucker punch came flying in
From somewhere in the back
Soon as we could see clearly
Through our big black eye
Man, we lit up your world
Like the 4th of July

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shaking her fist
And the eagle will fly
And there's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringing her bell
And itll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Ahhh Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue

Ohhh Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you'll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
'Cause we'll put a boot in your ass
It's the American way

Hey Uncle Sam
Put your name at the top of his list
And the Statue of Liberty
Started shaking her fist
And the eagle will fly
And there's gonna be hell
When you hear Mother Freedom
Start ringing her bell
And itll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you
Brought to you Courtesy of the Red White and Blue

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:46 AM

Two weeks ago I rode and talked for 2 hours on an airplane with a Medevac pilot on leave from Iraq. He said that originally the kids threw stones at Americans and gave a thumbs down signal. Now they smile and wave. He also said that the media consistently make things look bad.

He also said that if an Iraqi(s) shoots at Americans and is wounded himself, then it is his job to pick up the Americans and the Iraqi and take them all to the hospital for treatment.

I never heard that on the news. My husband, who is a great reader of history books, tells me that this is basically normal behavior in war.
--------
I am not in favor of Bush or the war, but I am in favor of gettng the whole story.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:47 AM

Omigod! we've been invaded by Marty's Neo-Con Mates!

But of course Woody didn't write that - he stole it from someone, just like the Bushies, they love to steal from others and take the credit!

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:52 AM

"Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue
(The Angry American)
By (Toby Keith) © 2002 Tokeco Tunes (BMI)"

It was a song in response to the 9-11 events.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:54 AM

Ah yes, - from the famous Album
"Obnoxious Yank Warmongering Propaganda Songs that Pissed Off the Rest of the World!"

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM

That about sums it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:00 AM

However, it opens the door for a discussion about the differences between patriotic songs and propaganda songs. Might be a good music thread there assuming it hasn't already been done.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:05 AM

"the differences between patriotic songs and propaganda songs"

Depends on your viewpoint, and just how narrow it is...

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:05 AM

Be cereful bout trying to persent the whole pixture here leeneia. You will be deeclaired a Bushite.

One way infomation allowed here but tha other side ain't welcom. Ya can try though.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM

Some joke...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/14/marine.video.ap/index.html


JACKSONVILLE, North Carolina (AP) -- A Marine corporal seen in a video singing about killing members of an Iraqi family says the song was a joke.

""It's a song that I made up and it was nothing more than something supposed to be funny, based off a catchy line of a movie," Cpl. Joshua Belile said in Wednesday's Daily News of Jacksonville.

In a four-minute video called "Hadji Girl," a singer who appears to be a Marine tells a cheering audience about gunning down members of an Iraqi woman's family after they confront him with automatic weapons.

Belile, 23, apologized and said the song was not tied in any way to allegations that Marines killed as many as two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha last year.

A Marine spokesman said Tuesday that officers were investigating.

Lt. Col. Scott Fazekas called the song "inappropriate and contrary to the high standards expected of all Marines."

Neither Belile nor officials at his base in Cherry Point immediately returned calls Wednesday from The Associated Press. Neither did officials at Camp Lejeune, the Corps' major base on the Atlantic coast.

The song tells a story of a Marine who falls in love with an Iraqi girl and is taken to meet her family. The girl's family shoots her and then attacks the Marine, who uses her younger sister as a shield and watches blood spray from her head.

He then sings about blowing the father and brother "to eternity."

"I think it was a joke that is trying to be taken seriously," said Belile, who learned the video was on the Internet after he returned from Iraq in March.

Belile said he wrote the song in September while in Iraq. He said his buddies pushed him on stage with his guitar. Someone taped the performance and posted it on the Internet, but it has since been removed.

"I will never perform this song again, and I will remove all video and text in relation to this that I have control of," he said.

Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said in light of recent allegations of atrocities committed by Marines in Haditha and other towns in Iraq, the video should be investigated by the Pentagon and Congress.

"The inappropriate actions of a few individuals should not be allowed to tarnish the reputation of all American military personnel," Awad said."

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:02 PM

Not by way of excuse but by way of explanation couldn't this be 'outside-the-green-zone black humor'?

(Can't think why this isn 't a song thread!)

The Doctor Demento Show used to play Kick Ass USA during and after Gulf War I.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 06:19 PM

Crowds of delighted people cheered the German troops when they entered the cities and towns of the Ukraine in WWII, and hailed them as liberators. The invading USA troops didn't get nearly that enthusiastic a welcome in Iraq, despite the fact that parallels can be drawn between Stalin and Saddam for their dictatorial brutality. But I trust the Americans, when they finally leave Iraq, will get about the same general popularity rating from the locals as the Germans did by '44-45 when they finally left the Ukraine and the other occupied-by-force territories of the Third Reich...

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: 282RA
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 07:47 PM

>>Two weeks ago I rode and talked for 2 hours on an airplane with a Medevac pilot on leave from Iraq. He said that originally the kids threw stones at Americans and gave a thumbs down signal. Now they smile and wave. He also said that the media consistently make things look bad.

He also said that if an Iraqi(s) shoots at Americans and is wounded himself, then it is his job to pick up the Americans and the Iraqi and take them all to the hospital for treatment.

I never heard that on the news. My husband, who is a great reader of history books, tells me that this is basically normal behavior in war.<<

Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

"He also said that if an Iraqi(s) shoots at Americans and is wounded himself, then it is his job to pick up the Americans and the Iraqi and take them all to the hospital for treatment."

Bullshit?

I will never trust YOU again then, you lying bastard 282RA, as I KNOW that this is the case for normal humanity.

Or are you saying that it _is_ US Govt (red necked neo-Con inspired!) POLICY NOT TO TREAT WOUNDED ENEMIES?

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:34 PM

At Guantanamo they fix the Jihadists up with new legs an such, fix their teeth, let a lot of them go back home and some of them try to kill some more Americans.

The Media focuses on every rumor and trys to make it out to be the truth so they can make a buck off of it.

I'll go with the fixer uppers instead of the jerks that exploit every rumor and insinuation for profit.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:46 PM

So, as Carol's link points out, the video is not propaganda by al-Queda after all--but a real knee-slapper of a funny song.

Fascinating.

I'm sure Iraqis share the singer's sense of humor--or maybe not.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: 282RA
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:16 PM

>>I will never trust YOU again then, you lying bastard 282RA, as I KNOW that this is the case for normal humanity. Or are you saying that it _is_ US Govt (red necked neo-Con inspired!) POLICY NOT TO TREAT WOUNDED ENEMIES?<<

I'm sick and goddamned tired of this stupid shit that the American media doesn't report on enough of the "good things" in Iraq. anyone who says that is a fucking weak-minded fool. Just read the headlines. They can't shut up about killing Zarqawi. How long they going to milk that? The guy's dead now get on with winning the fucking war and shut up already and bring our people home. Fuck Iraq, fuck the war on terror, fuck the new govt, fuck all you idiot war-supporters and Bush-lovers. I'm sick of your whiny-ass shit about the biased media. I don't want to hear it. Fina a legitimate bitch or shut the fuck up and quit copping out. If the war blows, have the courage to say it fucking blows. Don't whine to me about the biased media or I'll automatically assume you are just full of shit. If that's the best you can do to support the war, you have no business supporting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:26 PM

I have nver suported the War in Iraq 282RA, and most especially our US-arselicking Prime Minister Little Johnny sending Aussie Troops to Iraq under lying false pretences...

ALL Media IS Biased...

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:54 PM

Yes, LH, you're probably right.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: 282RA
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 11:01 PM

But the media are NOT responsible for this war. You can't win friends in Iraq by militarily invading and occupying their country on false charges, e.g. WMD, 9-11 connections, yellowcake, Prague meetings, etc. There is NO WAY we can befriend Iraqis or anybody else with such an unbelievably belligerent, bellicose foreign policy.

If the U.S. was winning anything over there, don't tell me these media over here are going to bury it with bad news. Not gonna happen. They don't report anything good because not much good is happening over there. I'm as happy as anyone that Zarqawi is dead. Good riddance. But why was he there at all?? Because dimwit Dubby invaded Iraq with a tiny army and left the borders as porous as oatmeal and then acted like he never saw the insurgency coming--because he didn't. Okay, we got Zarqawi, hooray, now could we get back to actually trying to fight and win this war we started and can't stop?

What possible reason do the Iraqis have to like us?? We've ruined their economy, halted their lives and their progress, created an extremely valuable training ground for terrorists, gotten tens if not hundreds of thousands of them killed, we've killed and tortured many of them ourselves. I mean, I don't see how that would make Iraqis like us, do you?

Now how is the media's reporting of this make it in any wise biased? You want the media to report the good things? So do I. Here are a few examples of some good things I would like to see getting reported:

-Generals getting enough troops to accomplish something other than becoming convenient targets for IEDs.

-Fresh, better-trained troops that can fight battles and win hearts and minds.

-The insurgency being quelled.

-The militias disbanded.

-The new govt maintaining a well-trained, well-equipped military able to handle its own affairs and quell domestic disturbances and threats from foreign adversaries.

-All the terrorist leaders captured, tried and executed.

-Victory being declared.

-Our troops coming home.

Sound like too much to ask? Well, that's at least as much as it will take to get this job done. So until I start seeing these types of headlines, I don't think the media have much of anything good to report from Iraq, quite frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 06:16 AM

Who said I don't agree with you?

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 06:27 AM

Hang on, missed this one...

"Victory being declared."

It already has. Rest Easy.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 11:56 AM

Here's the video...

http://www.cair.com/video/marine-hadji-girl.wmv

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 11:30 PM

Thanks, Carol, for setting up the link to hear the song in question. Have you heard it--and if so what did you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:09 AM

The last line, the laughter through it all, says it all "They should have known they were working with the marines". What's the mentality here? A bit sick, this is beyoud gallow's humor, which is a survival coping mechanism. This is what I'd call a "red Flag song" & the military should take notice. Seems their choice of outlets is this song & the barrel of their guns. A sad state of affairs this new type of new military music is, beats a march(sick pun). A new chapter in war pychology & the affecton it's music(there's a workshop in here, somewhere).

Hi Ron, you asked, I think it's a sick reflection of a sick society & it's ills.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:09 AM

Were you able to listen, Ron? Since posting the link, I haven't been able to get into the CAIR website.

I did hear it, and I think it's very unfortunate that our Marines have been trained to have such a callous disregard for the humanity of the people they say they are over there to help.

I think it's unfortunate for at least two reasons... the first being that that such disregard for humanity is probably one of the biggest reasons the US military is failing so miserably in accomplishing its stated goals in Iraq. The other reason being that this attitude is probably directly responsible for the deaths of many US servicemen and women (by virtue of the backlash it creates among Iraqis against the US military). And all of that is quite apart from the tragedy of the large number of Iraqi civilian deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:13 AM

I wasn't able to see it. I'm sure they're trying to restrict its dissemination as much as possible. Thanks for the feedback by those who have seen it.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM

Thank you Barry......I knew I would read that from you and it speaks more than I can say.

BTW, for those of you who see no comparisons to VietNam...try an eye exam.......It gets cleareer every day.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:45 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101353_pf.html

Seized Letter Outlines Al Qaeda Goals in Iraq

By Susan B. Glasser and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, October 12, 2005; A13

Al Qaeda's top deputy urged the leader of his Iraq branch in July to prepare for the inevitable U.S. withdrawal by carrying out political as well as military actions, and he lectured him that he risked being shunned by an Islamic world angered over his gruesome and not "palatable" killings of fellow Muslims, according to an intercepted letter released yesterday by the U.S. government.

The 6,000-word letter from Osama bin Laden's chief lieutenant, Ayman Zawahiri, to Iraqi insurgent leader Abu Musab Zarqawi amounts to a detailed portrait of al Qaeda's long-term goals in Iraq and the Middle East, and includes a striking critique of how Zarqawi has gone about waging his war against not only U.S. troops but also Iraqi civilians. The letter was posted yesterday on the Web site of Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte -- http://www.dni.gov/ -- after senior intelligence officials released excerpts of it last week.

Invoking the specter of the United States abruptly abandoning Iraq as it did to Vietnam, Zawahiri counseled immediate political action: "We must take the initiative and impose a fait accompli upon our enemies, instead of the enemy imposing one on us."

The missive also suggests the degree to which al Qaeda's leadership remains eager to assert its prerogatives with Zarqawi, who has become the increasingly public face of the movement when Zawahiri and bin Laden are in hiding. Although the letter does not contain a direct reference to Zarqawi until a cryptic greeting to him at the end, a senior intelligence official who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity said "it's absolutely certain" it was meant for Zarqawi, declining to elaborate on how U.S. officials made that conclusion. The letter was dated July 9, but the official would not say whether it had been sent. "We obtained it in the course of counterterrorism operations in Iraq," he said.

Throughout, Zawahiri -- the Egyptian doctor who fused his own Islamic movement with bin Laden's al Qaeda in the late 1990s and is believed to operate now as the group's top commander -- comes across as a strategist trying to rein in a guerrilla operating at odds with the movement's political goals. The official said that in its repeated criticism of Zarqawi, the letter also amounts to a reproof from "an al Qaeda elder to an occasionally hotheaded field commander."

"He comes down like a ton of bricks on what has happened tactically," the official said.

"This is not a rant. It is more chilling in a sense because it's so well-argued, clean and calm," the official added. "There's a high political content. Zawahiri calls for political action equivalent to military action."

Zarqawi has been high on the list of most wanted insurgents since last year after he pledged allegiance to bin Laden, but in recent months U.S. military commanders have given even greater urgency to disrupting his network of foreign fighters and Iraqi supporters. The network is still thought to constitute only a fraction of the Iraqi insurgency in numbers, but it is credited with carrying out a disproportionately large share of the violence, as a result of suicide bombings often aimed at Shiite civilians to foment sectarian strife.

But Zawahiri urged Zarqawi in the letter to change that formula and refocus on politics. When the United States leaves, al Qaeda must be ready to claim as much territory politically in the inevitable void that will arise, he writes. Zawahiri called that stage the setting up of an "emirate," in as much of Sunni-dominated Iraq as possible, to be followed by the longer-term goal of a "caliphate," reuniting the historical Islamic empire centered in modern-day Egypt, Lebanon and Israel.

Zawahiri also questions Zarqawi's targeting of Iraqi Shiites, telling him bluntly that the "majority of Muslims don't comprehend this" and wondering whether such targeting is a "wise decision" given the need to wage war against the United States and the current Iraqi government. And even if Shiite leaders should be targeted, Zawahiri asks, "why were there attacks on ordinary Shia?"

He also told Zarqawi that fellow Muslims "will never find palatable" the televised scenes of hostage beheadings that have earned Zarqawi the sobriquet "sheik of the slaughterers." among like-minded fighters. In the media battle "for the hearts and minds" of the Islamic world, Zawahiri said, such tactics will not work.

Zawahiri has spoken before about the broad plans of the al Qaeda movement. In a book smuggled out of Afghanistan in December 2001, Zawahiri said the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks "would be nothing more than disturbing acts" if they "do not serve the ultimate goal of establishing the Muslim nation in the heart of the Islamic world." In the 2001 volume, he said the first goal should be to strike Americans and Jews "in our Muslim countries."

In the new letter, Zawahiri said the Muslim masses "do not rally except against an outside occupying enemy, especially if the enemy is firstly Jewish and secondly American."

In an unusual reverse, the letter asks Zarqawi to send money to al Qaeda, saying many of its "lines have been cut off," and that "we'll be very grateful to you" for financial help.

Staff writer Bradley Graham contributed to this report.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:01 AM

As usual, Woody, your contribution is totally off the point of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:03 AM

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14824892.htm

"The question remains, how to draw the Americans into fighting a war against Iran?"

Associated Press

Text of a document discovered in terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's hide-out. The document was provided in English by Iraqi National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie:

The situation and conditions of the resistance in Iraq have reached a point that requires a review of the events and of the work being done inside Iraq. Such a study is needed in order to show the best means to accomplish the required goals, especially that the forces of the National Guard have succeeded in forming an enormous shield protecting the American forces and have reduced substantially the losses that were solely suffered by the American forces. This is in addition to the role, played by the Shi'a (the leadership and masses) by supporting the occupation, working to defeat the resistance and by informing on its elements.

As an overall picture, time has been an element in affecting negatively the forces of the occupying countries, due to the losses they sustain economically in human lives, which are increasing with time. However, here in Iraq, time is now beginning to be of service to the American forces and harmful to the resistance for the following reasons:

1. By allowing the American forces to form the forces of the National Guard, to reinforce them and enable them to undertake military operations against the resistance.

2. By undertaking massive arrest operations, invading regions that have an impact on the resistance, and hence causing the resistance to lose many of its elements.

3. By undertaking a media campaign against the resistance resulting in weakening its influence inside the country and presenting its work as harmful to the population rather than being beneficial to the population.

4. By tightening the resistance's financial outlets, restricting its moral options and by confiscating its ammunition and weapons.

5. By creating a big division among the ranks of the resistance and jeopardizing its attack operations, it has weakened its influence and internal support of its elements, thus resulting in a decline of the resistance's assaults.

6. By allowing an increase in the number of countries and elements supporting the occupation or at least allowing to become neutral in their stand toward us in contrast to their previous stand or refusal of the occupation.

7. By taking advantage of the resistance's mistakes and magnifying them in order to misinform.

Based on the above points, it became necessary that these matters should be treated one by one:

1. To improve the image of the resistance in society, increase the number of supporters who are refusing occupation and show the clash of interest between society and the occupation and its collaborators. To use the media for spreading an effective and creative image of the resistance.

2. To assist some of the people of the resistance to infiltrate the ranks of the National Guard in order to spy on them for the purpose of weakening the ranks of the National Guard when necessary, and to be able to use their modern weapons.

3. To reorganize for recruiting new elements for the resistance.

4. To establish centers and factories to produce and manufacture and improve on weapons and to produce new ones.

5. To unify the ranks of the resistance, to prevent controversies and prejudice and to adhere to piety and follow the leadership.

6. To create division and strife between American and other countries and among the elements disagreeing with it.

7. To avoid mistakes that will blemish the image of the resistance and show it as the enemy of the nation.

In general and despite the current bleak situation, we think that the best suggestions in order to get out of this crisis is to entangle the American forces into another war against another country or with another of our enemy force, that is to try and inflame the situation between American and Iraq or between America and the Shi'a in general.

Specifically the Sistani Shi'a, since most of the support that the Americans are getting is from the Sistani Shi'�a, then, there is a possibility to instill differences between them and to weaken the support line between them; in addition to the losses we can inflict on both parties. Consequently, to embroil America in another war against another enemy is the answer that we find to be the most appropriate, and to have a war through a delegate has the following benefits:

1. To occupy the Americans by another front will allow the resistance freedom of movement and alleviate the pressure imposed on it.

2. To dissolve the cohesion between the Americans and the Shi'a will weaken and close this front.

3. To have a loss of trust between the Americans and the Shi'a will cause the Americans to lose many of their spies.

4. To involve both parties, the Americans and the Shi'a, in a war that will result in both parties being losers.

5. Thus, the Americans will be forced to ask the Sunni for help.

6. To take advantage of some of the Shia elements that will allow the resistance to move among them.

7. To weaken the media's side which is presenting a tarnished image of the resistance, mainly conveyed by the Shi'a.

8. To enlarge the geographical area of the resistance movement.

9. To provide popular support and cooperation by the people.

The resistance fighters have learned from the result and the great benefits they reaped, when a struggle ensued between the Americans and the Army of Al-Mahdi. However, we have to notice that this trouble or this delegated war that must be ignited can be accomplished through:

1. A war between the Shi'a and the Americans.

2. A war between the Shi'a and the secular population (such as Ayad 'Alawi and al-Jalabi.)

3. A war between the Shi'a and the Kurds.

4. A war between Ahmad al-Halabi and his people and Ayad 'Alawi and his people.

5. A war between the group of al-Hakim and the group of al-Sadr.

6. A war between the Shi'a of Iraq and the Sunni of the Arab countries in the gulf.

7. A war between the Americans and Iraq. We have noticed that the best of these wars to be ignited is the one between the Americans and Iran, because it will have many benefits in favor of the Sunni and the resistance, such as:

1. Freeing the Sunni people in Iraq, who are (30 percent) of the population and under the Shi'a Rule.

2. Drowning the Americans in another war that will engage many of their forces.

3. The possibility of acquiring new weapons from the Iranian side, either after the fall of Iran or during the battles.

4. To entice Iran towards helping the resistance because of its need for its help.

5. Weakening the Shi'a supply line.

The question remains, how to draw the Americans into fighting a war against Iran? It is not known whether American is serious in its animosity towards Iraq, because of the big support Iran is offering to America in its war in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Hence, it is necessary first to exaggerate the Iranian danger and to convince America and the west in general, of the real danger coming from Iran, and this would be done by the following:

1. By disseminating threatening messages against American interests and the American people and attribute them to a Shi'a Iranian side.

2. By executing operations of kidnapping hostages and implicating the Shi'a Iranian side.

3. By advertising that Iran has chemical and nuclear weapons and is threatening the west with these weapons.

4. By executing exploding operations in the west and accusing Iran by planting Iranian Shi'a fingerprints and evidence.

5. By declaring the existence of a relationship between Iran and terrorist groups (as termed by the Americans).

6. By disseminating bogus messages about confessions showing that Iran is in possession of weapons of mass destruction or that there are attempts by the Iranian intelligence to undertake terrorist operations in America and the west and against western interests.

Let us hope for success and for God's help."

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:14 AM

It has to be remembered that none of the goals attributed to al Qaeda in the records purported to be from Zarqawi would have been possible had the US not invaded Iraq. First of all, Zarqawi was not an important figure in al Qaeda until Colin Powell made him one. It was only after a speach given by Powell in which he named Zarqawi as a central figure in al Qaeda that bin Laden and the power figures in al Qaeda took much notice of Zarqawi. And also, had the US not invaded Iraq, Saddam would have prevented al Qaeda from making inroads into Iraq. Iraq would not have been an attractive target for al Qaeda without the US presence there.

And now that we see what al Qaeda wants with regard to drawing the US into a war with Iran, we know we can count on the Bush administration giving al Qaeda exactly what it wants. Because the Bush administration always gives al Qaeda exactly what it wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:35 PM

I thought this thread was about "Hadji Girl" & winning friends in Iraq & not about Zarqawi. Get it right Woodyy. Damn that Zarqawi, his name keeps getting attached to everything. He's getting more heat than Pretty Boy Floyd. Didn't he just rob that Manhattan Trust yesterday? Now today he's getting blamed for global warming & he's dead,,,, so they say.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:44 PM

Leeneia: Can you view the Fox News Network? You can get the straight story there and if there are two points of view, in most instances you can get that too! It's the favorite source of news for almost all Mudcat members!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:58 PM

OK Doug, since you are gracing us with your presence--what's your take on "Hadji Girl"--is it a real laff-fest of a song------or something different?

No problem with a story-song celebrating killing some of the people we're supposedly in Iraq to help--is that it? Or is it OK 'cause it's just fictional--a couple of the boys letting off steam? Somehow, I don't think that's how al-Jazeera would picture it.

Awaiting your comments with interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:12 PM

I believer the last line of the song is "They should've known they were fuckin' with the Marines..."

Not workin' with, fuckin' with. Sung by a typical overweight, ignorant young American jarhead.

Perfect. I hope lots of people all around the world get to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:38 PM

Where's Snortin Norton1 when you need him? HE'd show ya what happens when you fuck with the Marines!

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:49 PM

There are people all over this world who have been forced to "fuck" with the Marines...and not by their own choice! The Marines are the Roman Legionaries of the present age. Wherever the Empire goes...they go. Their job: to subdue, conquer, and destroy, for the greater glory of the Empire.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Fernando
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:46 PM

CC always gives Al Q what they want.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:26 PM

Fernando--


Al-Queda wants the US to attack Iran. Bush is showing tendencies in that direction. Exactly why is this not playing into the hands of al-Queda, as Carol says?

And by the way, what do you think of the subject of the thread, the video of a song about GIs killing the people we are supposedly there to help?

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:41 PM

oh heavens we are only there to capture their oil and probably even their wind and solar energy. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Fernando
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:32 PM

The video is a stupid thing that gives Al Q what they want, something they ca use for propaganda, just like CC's whining gives them what they want. They want to see the American people get wimpy and loose their resolve to win.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:36 PM

No, that's not what they want at all.

They love it when the US gets all macho with sovereign countries. It helps them immensely with their recruitment efforts. The proof of this is in the documentation provided right here in this thread by our good friend Woody.

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:06 AM

Wimpy! It is whimpy to says nothing & back the play of this government's policy of agression the same way that Viet Nam was back until those who spoke loud enough were finally being heard. Do you approve of what happened 40 years ago or are you still backing the party line about that too, even after the party & the nation won't back that mistake anymore. Well get used to being wrong again, there's no difference between then & now. This war it's a sick action supported by those that follow their nose when it's being tugged on & it's being sung about here by some sick puppies. Al-Queda doesn't have to do much to increase recuitment we're doing all their work for them.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Winning Friends in Iraq
From: GUEST,Fernando
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:59 AM

Is every war wrong?

Begin with the American revloutionary war and state which ones were
wrong.

I suppose when Dean says "the idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong," and Murtha says "We Cannot Win This" Al Q does not gloat? Thats exactly what they want to hear.

Give them some more and make them happy.