BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)

Subject: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:02 PM

For an upcoming stage role, I need to assemble a reasonable copy of the current uniform of a London (U.K.) "Superintendant"

I've looked around online, and not found much in the way of decent, detailed pictures... other than a few short of Rowan Atkenson in "Thin Blue Line", but even those don't have enough detail

Any UKers know a cop they could click a few pics of and send to me?

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 07:07 PM

SHOTS of Rowan.....

Damn "Can't-Edit-Posts" message board......

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 06 - 11:10 PM

I might have a pic of a Motorcycle cop. Would that do? Or, possibly mounted police at the Chester races.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:16 AM

Out of curiosity I did a Google image search to see what one looked like, and can understand the difficulty. From the returns it would appear that police in the UK never appear outdoors except in flak jackets and what we'd (US) call SWAT vests, and are never photographed indoors.

The few "unadorned" pictures I found of uniformed police were at too low resolution to see much in the way of details, but the observation must be that there are few details to be seen, with the exception of the hat, or sometimes a helmet. The shirts, etc seem to be "off the rack civies" although probably with limitations on color and possibly a generic kind of collar.

Non-uniformed police appear to wear very conventional business suits, although favoring rather darker colors. The dark colors could conceal something in a favored "cut" but I didn't find anything that could be pulled up to reveal a consistent feature.

Current era UK police appear to have moved away from "stereotypical" dress, and it's possible that a "uniform" from a decade or so ago might convey "policeness" more than a modern one, but all the the pics I found were either very modern or very old, omitting the recent past.

Cute?
Brit Police maybe. The picture purports to be a British policeman, but the page where it appears is in Hebrew or other similar script so I can't be sure.
Aussie Report on an apparently UK event, shows "police?" a little more casually. Scroll down to pics at bottom of page.
NYC Picture appears to have been taken in New York, at the British Memorial Gardens. The "NYC" link shows a variety of "uniforms" but the image is flat in dark areas and I couldn't pull up any distinctive details. The Brit Mem Gardens link is to several "society events, with no uniforms that I could see, for ident of the NYC pic.

Probably no help, I'm afraid.

John

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 04:24 AM

You might try hunting up cast photos from programmes such as 'Frost', 'Inspector Morse' or 'The Bill'... all 3 have Supers in them and might provide some help.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:32 AM

'Frost' and 'Inspector Morse' are neither London nor current.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: The Walrus
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM

Badges of rank any use?

Police Shoulder Badges of Rank

I can't find any details of the difference on the peak of the cap, but these do vary with the addition of silver lace.braid or embroidery, dependant on rank.

The shirt resembles the civilian cut, but with two (flapped and pleated) breast pockets and shoulder straps (epaulettes) - if you're going to keep the tunic on, just wear a standard 'short collar' white shirt and no one will know the odds.
As a side point, I believe the police tie (certainly for lower ranks) is a clip-on affair, to prevent it being grabbed in a fracas.

Any use to you?

W

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 08:05 AM

Well right now I am wearing a pair of Police issue trousers and they do itch a bit. I found a whole stall at the Castle Coombe Sidecar World Championship race selling police stuff. Stab vests, high viz jackets, short sleaved shirts, boots and the like.

But I anticipate the trousers will be hard wearing and at 4 GBP (plus a tube of cream) they owe me nothing already.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: skipy
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 08:17 AM

But they are not red!

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM

Superintendants are not specific to London, only the badges are.

If Frost isn't current, how come it was on the other day?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 10:16 AM

Morse died in July, 1998.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 11:41 AM

Also, are you wanting the City of London Police or the Metropolitan Police?

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Jeanie
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 12:19 PM

Inspector's uniform.
A clear image of a Surrey police inspector's hat can be found at:
http://trooperhats.tripod.com/surreypoliceimages/polsupt.jpg. You would need to substitute the cap badge for a Metropolitan Police cap badge

I believe replica police costumes have to have some small details different from "the real thing", even for stage/film work, in case they should later get into the wrong hands and be used illegally by someone wanting to impersonate a police officer.

Out of curiosity, what is the play that you are going to be performing, Clinton ? Another line to take would be to search for photographs of past productions to see how they dressed the characters.

Break a leg, Clinton !
- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Jeanie
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 12:34 PM

Sorry - I meant Surrey police *Superintendent's* hat. The blue clickey didn't work directly when I tested it, but it does work if you type the whole webpage address in.

I'm really curious to know which play you are doing, Clinton - so don't forget to tell us.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

"No Sex Please, We're British"

Thanks for the attempts so far.... keep 'em coming....

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: HuwG
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 03:12 PM

Stills from The Bill might be useful.

The Bill features the work of the Metropolitan Police. ("Morse" is Thames Valley Police; "Frost" is the fictional Midlands town of Denton).

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 06 - 11:46 PM

So, let me know about motor cops or mounted.....

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Jeanie
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 03:17 AM

Here you are, Clinton, a cast photo of a production of "No Sex Please, We're British", with Police Superintendent very much in view:
Police Superintendent in "No Sex Please, We're British"

It's a hilarious farce. You'll have lots of fun - and lots of hard work, too ! I saw the original West End show when it first came out, with a very young (and then comparatively unknown) David Jason playing the newly-wed husband.

Have fun and break a leg !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jun 06 - 04:56 AM

The photo linked by Jeanie (Police Superintendent in "No Sex Please, We're British") is one of the few that I've seen that can be "pulled up" to show the cut of the jacket, etc in fairly clear detail.

In almost any decent photo editor that gives you a "slider" control of brightness and contrast, pulling the "highlight" (on the right) slider fairly far to the left does reveal where the pleats and tucks are. The cloth probably will turn purple, but to avoid that takes some extra steps.

The shoulder insignia, according to the link by The Walrus - 28 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM should be, for a Superintendant, a single crown, and the guy in Jeanie's pic seems to have two pips indicating Inspector grade, although it could be a crown and a button, depending on how long the epaulet flap on the jacket is.

The pic linked by Jeanie a little further up at 28 Jun 06 - 12:19 PM also can be pulled up to show some more detail, and indicates the button at the end of the epaulet very close to the collar (and the "Superintendant" appears to be wearing Commissioner rank/grade insignia according the Walrus' link?).

John

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST,Bravo_Whisky
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:54 PM

OK, this could get a bit long, but I hope it;s of use!

Uniform shirt is white (short- or long-sleeved) with flapped breast pockets and pilot-style shoulder-straps. Navy blue epaulettes are attached to these and carry either a constable's number or rank-markings. Officers up to the rank of Chief Superintendent wear the standard uniform tunic; it's slightly different for the chief officer ranks.

See this link for several good pictures of current uniform (albeit on a TV show):
http://www.thebillbios.co.uk/

Specifically, click on the link to "Current Cast" and then on "Superintendent Adam Okaro" for a good picture of the shirt-sleeves uniform.

For British police rank-markings see this paage of Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_police_ranks

Look down the page for the section on London's Metropolitan Police (although only the senior ranks vary from those shown further up that are used nationally).

The uniform cap is of the standard flat-topped design in navy blue with a patent black visor. The standard white/black diced hat-band is worn, as is the standard cap badge.

The visor decoration for senior officers is:
Inspector/Chief Inspector:
one band of rasied black embroidery

Superintendent/Chief Superintendent:
one band of raised silver embroidery
(as shown in the picture linked in the post above)

ACC and DCC (or Commander and Dpty Asst. Commnr. in London):
one row of silver embroidered oak-leaves

Chief Constable (or Dpty. Commnr) and Commissioner in London:
two rows of silver embroidered oak-leaves

See either of these links for good photgraphs of the cap and the visor decoration (this is actually the Greater Manchester Police website but apart from the badge details, it's pretty much identical to the Metropolitan Police cap):
http://www.gmp.police.uk/division02/index.htm
http://www.gmp.police.uk/division02/index.htm

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:55 PM

Sorry, last link should read:
http://www.gmp.police.uk/division05/index.htm

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:59 PM

Thanks for the help all!

Hey.. some pics I find, there's a short 'chain' near the top fo the coat... wazzat for? too short to be a watch..... or for a call box key....

Is it just decorative?

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:14 PM

The post above from has a good link.

Click on the "NYC" link and look at the officer in the front right of the picture.

Note he has the three silver stars of a Chief Inspector on his shoulders and you can just abour make out the band of black embroidery on the peak of his cap. A suprintendent would look pretty much the same but the rank-markings on the shoulders would be a single crown and the peak detailing would be silver not black.

Not sure where this guy is from but, to be pedantic, the tunic design is *slightly* different for London's Met police and they don't wear the lapel badges but I doubt even a British audience would notice that. The thing that makes him stand out are his rank-markings and, for Superintendent especially, the most noticeable thing is the silver on the peak of tha cap - that's what makes it obvious that the character is a SENIOR-ranking police officer. If you're on stage, I guess that's all most of the audience will spot too - they won't be able to make out the exact details of the rank-markings on th shoulders.

Just a thought for you: if you can't get hold of a proper UK police tunic, don't panic. For day-to-day uniform they generally wear military-style navy-blue v-neck pullovers instead of the tunic. These have sholder and elbow reinforcement patches (also navy blue) and the epaulettes are attached to these. The uniform cap is still worn.

At a pinch, the US Navy black pullover would probably make a fair approximation if you needed it.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:14 PM

It used to be for the whistle, but is now decorative only. The whistle was the precursor of the radio or mobile phone. A blast on a policemans' whistle would stop traffic and alert other officers on the beat - of course, that was in the days when you could a)hear a whistle over street noise and b) expect there to be other officers on the beat!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST,Bravo_Whisky
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:25 PM

A bit off topic, but have a look at THIS page:
http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/aboutgmp.htm

for a pretty good picture of a Chief Constable's full service uniform.

Note the rank markings on the epaulette of the tunic are in bullion embroidery, not cast metal! Note also the lapel insignia with bullion embroidered oak-leaves (similar to those work by British army Generals).

The cap and the diced hat-band are pretty much the same as for all the other ranks but you get a good idea of the oak-leaves on the peak. Also, look at the full-on bullion embroidered cap badge!! (compare with the Superintendents from the same service shown in the links I posted above!)

It also shows the traditional whistle-chain pretty clearly too!

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:28 PM

This is an ok-ish pic of a superintendent in the tuni uniform - note the absence of lapel markings.
http://www.gmp.police.uk/division10/index.htm

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 05:33 PM

As posted above:

http://drugs.goleshet.com/home/252/252-drugs.jpg

This is indeed a Constable from London's Metropolitan police.
A useful pic of the uniform sweater, which is the same for all ranks.
(the patch on the fron says "METROPOLITAN POLICE")

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 03:06 AM

You lot are giving Clinton all this info, but he could be a terrorist.
Maybe he wants to be able to get into Downing Street or Buckingham Palace without detection. LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 03:17 AM

Terrible yes... terrorist... nah... unless he really IS trying to get into Parliament to emulate Guido Fawkes, in which case more than half of Britain would help him...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 04:02 AM

"get into Downing Street or Buckingham Palace"

Who'd bother?

:-P
Heh

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: The Walrus
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 05:12 AM

If he was trying to get into Downing Street to do nasties to Princess Tony, I'm sure there are many here who'd give him a lift there.

W

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 09:49 AM

LOL! It's not like the info's not out there to find! :o)

Anyway, the uniform alone is nothing these days without the relevant ID.

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 09:53 AM

My mom fancies male strippers dressed in Police Uniform, so the job is there for you Clinton, if you fancy it ROTFLMAO.

Seriously - hope it goes well Clinton

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 09:56 AM

I'm neither shy, nor proud.... I'll take your moms money!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 12:24 PM

Does she have to pay for the flight as well?

Subject: RE: BS: London Police Uniforms (U.k.)
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 01:02 PM

"unless he really IS trying to get into Parliament to emulate Guido Fawkes,"

Or 'immolate'? :)