Bad News for Lyric Sites?

Subject: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:15 AM

There's nothing certain yet but this doesn't look good. See here

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM

Can't apply to traditional songs or songs already in the public domain surely ?

eric

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 01:25 PM

No, it won`t apply to trad./public domain material.

Otherwise, artists who care about their audiences can provide their lyrics on their websites.

Artists who don`t won t get covered as often as before. Serves them right not to get that recognition.

Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 01:28 PM

I think this may be aimed at the 'kiddies' and they hope to sell them the lyrics of the latest songs, but I don't see them paying for lyrics they and their mates can work out between them.
Out of copyright, and traditional material will not be affected whatever.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: GEST
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 01:29 PM

Quoting fom the article cited:

[SNIP]

"What is the limit for fair use in song lyrics? In US law, song lyrics are indeed copyrighted, and copyright law offers four factors to determine if a fair use exemption applies:

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

the nature of the copyrighted work;

amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;

and the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

These four rules leave a lot of gray areas, but commercial song lyrics sites would violate rules one and three right off the bat. Whether or not the music publishing industry will extend their lawsuits to include nonprofit sites remains an unanswered question."

[/SNIP]

The key words here are "commercial song lyrics sites". In my opinion, anyone who makes money from somone else's copyrighted work deserves to be shut down at the least, and if possible, sued for any profits gained from their illegal and immoral activity.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 01:59 PM

I seldom use these 'lyrics sites'. Most are loaded with stuff my spyware has to remove.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 02:34 PM

How many times do I have to say in some dudgeon that US law does not apply (except when Tony B Liar signs stupid treaties) outside the US?

The US is admittedly perhaps the most offensive international user of "long arm" legislation but it is frankly contrary to international law.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 02:36 PM

It makes little difference...a few clicks of the mouse and those sites can be hosted in Russia, Ceylon, S. Africa or an island in the Pacific. Some countries treat this as 'opportunity'.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 09:54 PM

According to Reuters, Gracenote has acquired the rights to over a million lyrics. That's got to be more than just modern pop. Furthermore, they're talking about 'a new revenue stream' that will see that 'composers get paid.' Sounds just like the RIAA and it's kin.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 10:40 PM

There are sites where you PAY for lyrics????

~S~

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 11:12 PM

In 2004, Gracenote lost a suit against Musicmatch. This opened the field to more competition. Microsoft Windows Media Player moved to the service provided by All Media Guide. Lots of action at present.

I seldom recommend Wikipedia for information because of their lack of peer review and inaccuracies, but their writeup on Gracenote, now a little out-of-date, contains useful links to the Court action and to other players in the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote.

Richard Bridge's reference to 'international law' is amusing, perhaps he would explain what that is. Most of the big players in services operate internationally one way or another and have rights in many jurisdictions. Gracenote is a partner in Japanese technology companies which have helped them to operate globally.

The situation at present is very complex.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Jul 06 - 11:45 PM

I suggest that we all rename one of our own songs (or write a new one) with the title of a modern popular song and put the lyrics up on a website.

If we all do it there should be enough confusion to keep them busy for years.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 01:04 AM

WYSIWYG, generally, you don't pay for lyrics. You go to the site and get the lyrics free, but you are shown ads. The lyric site makes the money by selling ads, and they sell ads based on "hits," and they get hits based on people looking at copyrighted lyrics.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 09:01 AM

Won't bother me much, because I'm almost always looking for traditional song lyrics. I can't imagine who would even be that interested in the lyrics of most of pop songs that are out now.

Subject: RE: Bad News for Lyric Sites?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 09:03 AM

Thanks, Nerd.

~S~