BS: Generous Britain

Subject: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:03 AM

Teenage girls are getting pregnant on purpose to giv them a better standard of life.

Young mums reckon having a baby will let them escape a drudery of taking a low paid job.
It will give them a home of their own and they can collect generous state benefits and enjoy a better life.

Researchers who carried out the survey shows a quarter of pregnancies to girls under 18 are second ones proving soaring numbers of teens are having children by choice.

Researchers spoke to young mums and dads aged 13 to 22 living in Britain and found the vast majority did not regret having a child.

Dr. Lester Coleman who headed the survey by the Trust for the study of Adolescence said, These youngsters accounts will be of great value. Many that we spoke to laughed at just how soft the government policy on state benefits really are, one said it's like money from America ! We get a house, it's also fully kitted out for us top to bottom and with two kids you can rack in at least 200.00 pounds for yourself after all the bills are paid, it's great.

Goes to show how leeches can live of the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 07:50 AM

It just goes to show that the quality of the average British male is so low that girls would rather be single parents than put up with a low quality man in their lives.

In "the old days" girls got pregnant on purpose so that the father would have to marry them they then got a home and income for minding the kids. The only thing that has changed is that now they have the choice of if they take the man or just the home and income and a lot of them are chosing to just have the home and income, why?

I do not see where you get the idea that because a teanage pregnancy is a second one that it "proves" that they are going it on purpose. there is a level of sex education provided that would enable most people to know that unprotected sex will cause pregnancy, so if it is a first or second pregnancy hat is the diffference.

I do not think that if you asked any Mum or Dad if they regretted having a child they would say yes.

If teenage girls are getting pregnant on purpose just to give them a better standard of life, then something should be done to improve the standard of live that they have...

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Sooz
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:20 AM

From BBC News
"The study, for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation suggested girls as young as 13 choose motherhood to be independent and to create "a loving family".

The researchers said their findings show teenagers are not ignorant about contraception, as is often assumed, and actively plan to have a baby.

The study found that many of those who became pregnant as teenagers had wanted to compensate for their own bad experiences as childhood.

They said that if they had not become a parent, their life would become worse because of continued family disruption and unhappiness.

In many cases, teenagers understood how contraception worked but did not know that their age group had a high fertility rate."

I'll second what Kara said: "If teenage girls are getting pregnant on purpose just to give them a better standard of life, then something should be done to improve the standard of live that they have... "

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Beth.
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:27 AM

Most are little tramps. Why should we provide for them ? Keep their legs closed would be sound advice. If you know any, ignore them and make them feel like the tarts they really are.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:36 AM

Nonsense Cara, at least if those figures are correct. How many decent young men do you think would be able find a job that would support all that and give the female £200 spending money?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:53 AM

An article in todays Yorkshire Post quted a recent survey of late teens/early twenties young women, number one ambition..................
to be a footballers wife, most admired woman..............Victoria Beckham, who recently admitted to never having read a book, I despair.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:24 AM

A mother and baby hostel instead of a council flat might lessen the appeal of the independance via a baby route. They could, have a central creche, and the girls could go to work, college or school as required to complete their education/growing up. Communal living and eating and a little pocket money for those not earning, would give them friends and support when they most need it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:37 AM

Good thinking Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 09:45 AM

Agreed Giok - I think that a lot of the problem here arises from the environment that many of these girls come from. not just the home but peer groups and home location can have a lot of influence.

I got pregnant at 17, due to ignorance - there was very little sex education at that time and my mother told me virtually nothing. I came from a family where affection was non-existent and any attention from others was sought, whatever the cost. As a result I took my father to court to get permission to get married. Looking back I could have gone a different route but I do not regret any of my life. I was lucky - I was able to go into further education when my kids were at school and have done quite well, overall.

However, I do understand where these kids are coming from - if we can't, or won't make much of an effort to remedy the cause then re-education of the 'problem' seems to be the most sensible way to go, if only to try and break the vicious circle of the children of these mothers believing that this is the easiest way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:15 AM

No chance of ever buying a house. No chance of finding a man who can provide a roof and support. No education worth speaking of. A society that worships people from similar backgrounds who become celebrities. Educated, high earning women opting not to have children. What do we as a society expect?
The saddest thought though is of the resulting children...no father.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST,Grandmother
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 10:47 AM

Motherhood is a natural function of any woman. Mothers should be supported - it is a very difficult job. To denigrate young women who give birth is pretty low. Why not question the refusal of absent fathers to provide for their children?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM

There is a surprisingly large percentage of these young Mothers who will not give the name of the father, and in some instances actively do not want the father in their lives. If we adopted the route I suggested prviously, and these mothers were not automatically catered for and housed as they are now, then perhaps they would have more need of a father for their child. If they are housed, furnished and provided for by the council and the government, of course they don't need a partner. That's the way some of them want it, as having the the child means an escape from the family home, and often inadequate parent/s.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 11:57 AM

The original post starts by talking about teenage girls, then girls under 18. The next statement is about researchers speaking to young mums AND DADS aged 13 to 22.
It doesn't say whether those over 16 were married or not, but the fact that the 'dads' are included suggests that at least some of them had partners, whether or not they had married them.
Yet many of the susequent posts have assumed the girls had not stayed with their children's father(s). Does this tell us more about the girls' critics than about the girls themselves?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:32 PM

Kara was the poster [second post]who introduced the anti-male aspect of this thread, and subsequent posts have responded to that.
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:09 PM

Yhe biggest critics of these girls are probably childless or men who have abandoned their own children.

Guilt and envy make bitter people.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 01:58 PM

In many parts of the US, in order to receive social services money from the government, it is required that mothers not only inform their social services agency of the father's identity, but to also help the government (when possible) in its efforts to collect child support from the child's father. I wonder if something like that would help in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 02:32 PM

They are supposed to do so here Carol, but if they say they had lots of partners, and don't know all their names, or any of their names, then what do the social services do?
We have a government agency called the Child Support Agency, and their job is to chase absentee fathers for maintenance, the whole agency is an inefficient shambles, and it is costing about £12000 for every £3000 collected, or something rdiculous like that.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:25 PM

I see. Sounds like a difficult situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM

What teen-aged girl would give up her freedom for a life of servitude? Thats what you're saying when you state that, "Teenage girls are getting pregnant on purpose to giv them a better standard of life." Being a mother is not an easy way out and the amount of money you receive on welfare is not enough to raise anybody's standard of living significantly. If it happens to raise the standard of living in a girl's life, you have to look at the reason why she is living so far below the poverty line. I know alot of single mom's and not one of them got pregnant so they could live off the dole.

Dead beat dads is another topic entirely but I will comment on it since it has come into the thread. When a young girl is pregnant and her boyfriend is unwilling or unable to care for her and the child, its not a good idea to turn him into the authorities if you want your child to have any kind of relationship with the father. There is always the possibility that as the young man matures and bonds with the baby, he may, at a later date provide support when he is able. Once you 'turn him in' there is no chance for a healthy relationship between the father and his family. Besides that, most teen-aged fathers aren't able to support themselves, let alone a family.

There is a also very real possibility that by 'turning him in' you might be making things worse. Men can become extremely violent when it comes to 'their' money. In fact, most people wouldn't want you to give their name to the authorities for any reason what-so-ever. If there is is any hope that these young women might be able to salvage their lives, turning in the names of the fathers will not help.

...and if these girls are, in fact, teen-agers; responsible parents would help them out. I think these young girls have enough to worry about without being condemned by society, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:56 PM

Dianavan

That's the problem in a lot of these cases.

Quite often the mother of a girl had her children in her teens, maybe unmarried as well. There are a lot of feckless parents around as well - they don't do the job that they should be doing and so the circle goes round.

There have a been a number of interviews with these single mothers and, in the UK, this DOES happen. Trust me, at 15, 16, 17... you really don't think about the 'burden' that a baby or babies will be. It is seen as a way to make a living without having to find a job, to get away from an unsatisfactory home life, maybe to have someone who will show you some love. Putting that kind of load on a baby is not good but since when did most teenagers think about the real consequences of most of their acts?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:11 PM

You're right, jacqui, they have no idea how much work is involved in raising the child. In Canada, many teachers give their students an egg or other object that needs to be cared for as if it were a baby. The object has to be fed and the diapers changed at set times. There are other built-in needs so that they get 'the idea'.

Perhaps they should also introduce the financial component. In other words they should be given the same amount of money they would get on welfare and then have to pay for all the necessaties for two lives. Seems to me this would be a good course for all teen-agers.

The problem, of course, is that most of these pregnant girls have probably dropped out of school long ago. Seems to me that the real issue here, is education. What are they doing having unsafe sex anyway?

Instead of wasting time and money on trying to collect from 'dead-beat dads' they should transfer that money to the education system for educational programs aimed at stopping this trend. Is it just Britain or is this problem rampant in other countries with welfare systems? Just how prevalent is this problem or is it just another means of scapegoating?

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:22 PM

"What are they doing having unsafe sex anyway?"

Quite often, knowingly getting themselves pregnant.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:26 PM

I have absolutely no doubt that educating young girls is the way to go. I worked with pregnant 'teenage' girls and subsequently teenage mothers for over ten years....Almost a third of those girls were pregnant by their own father and the majority were pregnant by men over 35 yrs of age....The reason that they all gave was to do with where the 'LOVE' came from in their lives. Almost without exception they believed that they would gain independence and a flat of their own with the child they were going to lavish love on...In most cases and realising that they had been taken advantage of, they ended up giving up the baby they could not manage for adoption .
Let's educate girls from an early age as to what is right and what is wrong on the sexual front....in my mind the younger the better to prevent abuse and the taking advantage by older predatory males. Also let's teach those young girls what the reality of motherhood is in an effort to prevent the eventual rejection of their child.
Am I making sense here?
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:35 PM

Mike (you are making sense) ... Saint John NB has the highest percentage of unwed teenage pregnancies in Canada ... they have an extensive program just what you proposed here ... unfortunately it doesn't make an impact.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:39 PM

Unfortunately, whilst there are 'unconventional' Dads and predatory men in Canada as well as the UK...it will persist....does that also make sense? The education should be specific as to when sex is permissible.....if that is at all possible.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:00 PM

"The education should be specific as to when sex is permissible....."

In B.C. we do teach our children (from K-12) that its O.K. to say no and how to get help if you needed. I think thats a very different topic than concensual sex. Trouble is, when they get to be teen-agers, the hormones do not pay any attention to what is socially permissable.

I, too, have worked with teen-agers and have found that most of these kids need a 'reality check'. They need to understand that a baby is not a 'get home free' card. The best way to do that is to give them a 'fake' baby for a couple of weeks and see if they can keep it alive.

Number 6 - Can you please explain in more detail the programs that are available in NB? I would also be interested in the stats before and after the program was introduced. When I talk to kids about the 'fake baby' program and the 'roots of empathy' program, I have heard only positive comments. The kids actually get attached to the babies and begin to care about the needs of others.

I don't think the problem will ever vanish but I do think that we can do alot to educate kids about the realities of parenthood. Perhaps another positive step would be to make a parenting course mandatory for anyone receiving social assistance. I think we are guilty of throwing money at these kids and then sending them away to deal with their problems in isolation. Its just a little too easy to give them money and think that this will solve their problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:42 PM

What teen-aged girl would give up her freedom for a life of servitude?

They don't see it as that, they see it as having something to love and be loved by unconditionally.
As for the question on unprotected sex, we also have one of the highest figures for STDs in the UK as well, so it's no wonder we have so many pregnancies.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:03 PM

dianavan ... check the blue clicky ... as per stats I'm not aware of them but will make an effort to get some ... my knowledge is 'from what I hear' and even see on the streets ... many, many young child mothers .. one positive aspect of the program is 'post care' on dealing with motherhood (care, health, and advice).

SJ Teen Pregnancy

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:07 PM

Mike ... "Almost a third of those girls were pregnant by their own father and the majority were pregnant by men over 35 yrs of age"

that is disturbing ... very disturbing.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:23 PM

The sad thing is Number six that many girls who are looking for love...to be cared for...to feel protected....are given that by much older men and actively seek it in a so called 'Father figure'...some find it in their own Father but the 'closeness' develops into something more than one would expect and others find someone they admire...often appearing as a powerful person but who may be weak and/or predatory and the relationship 'happens'. The saddest thing of all is when the teenage girls actually realise what they have done and how it can affect the rest of their lives.....some tried suicide...some ran away...some made a decision to 'grow up' with whatever help they could muster. Many gave up their children for adoption, being unable to cope with the stresses and strains of motherhood and in spite of all the help they were given. At the end of the day they have been taken advantage of by older men....perhaps weak men who found difficulty in their own lives and relationships.
Life happens but aint it crap for some..sometimes.
There were times when my heart bled for those kids...especially a twelve year old..pregnant by her own father....he went to prison..but hey..did that help her?
Best wishes. Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 06:29 PM

I would like to apologies to all the men in the UK who are not useless and take responsibility for their acts.

Single parent hostels are not great. I lived in one for a year with 5 other single mother, durring that time 3 of them became pregnant and two became crack addicts.

I would be very interested to know if this figure £200 spending money is a week, a month or a year. I suspect it is a month and frankly any "decent young man" who can't earn enough to run a house hold and come up with some spending money shouldn't be getting people pregnant.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:59 AM

Totally agree with that Kara but for one thing..it takes two people!
Can't imagine the amorous young (or older) layabout will stop and say..."oops better not do this (with or without protection) because I won't have enough money to support you if you get pregnant" or the girl asking "If I get pregnant would you be able to support....?"
Maybe that should happen but in reality not everyone is that careful.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 03:07 AM

I lost a couple of posts to this thread in last nights Mudcrash.

A lot of this thread really looks like a load of old farts upset because some people are having sex and it isn't them.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:20 AM

You may say that Richard, but I couldn't possibly comment.

Kara I am at a loss to follow the reasoning about decent young men who can't earn enough to run a household, shouldn't be getting girls pregnant.
I'm afraid that married or otherwise, if people waited till they could afford to bring up a child and keep a house properly ,the population decline would get even steeper.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Sooz
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:37 AM

In my school we use a computerised virtual baby to give young people a weekends worth of what it is like to be a parent. Some sail through the weekend and others find it hell. (Isn't it the same in real life?)
Coupled with good sex and relationships education this has meant that we have very very few pregnancies. However, many girls seem to become pregnant during the year after they leave school when the grown up world doesn't keep all the promises they have been mad during their education

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 05:54 AM

There are two comments in all this that have not been viewed in connection with each other.

Somebody mentioned the fact that high flying career women are choosing not to start families. Giok mentioned the decline in population.

Add to these the fact that the UK is rapidly becoming a nation of old age pensioners, and it becomes obvious that, far from being an expensive liability, these young women may be essential in securing the future of the UK.

They are, for whatever reasons, raising the taxpayers and voters of the future, whose revenue will support those who bitch about them in THEIR old age.

Surely then it is right and proper to give them reasonable support, while ensuring that their kids will be educated into better ways of living.

'tain't rocket science, is it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Kara
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:52 AM

Yes Don is right.

And can hormones be that wrong. Some people do want to have a baby in their teens and make great parents.

I had a baby at 19, her father aged 21 could not cope and became violent so I left him. I did not wish to risk turning him in to the authorities and he was not forth coming with maintenence payments. Not because he could not pay just because he did not want to give me money.
I lived in poverty with my daughter but consider that the time and love I was able to give her vastly outweighed anything money could buy. She is now in her third year at University studying Psychology.

I now own my own home, have a fantastic husband, and 3 more kids all of whom I stayed with for the first 5 years of their lives.

At 41 I would not want to be looing after small kids, where as at 21 I loved it!

Women can chose to have kids or not have kids, to have a husband or not, to have a job or not, these are right that have been fought for and should be given the up most respect, God knows they have put up with a load of shit over the years. Being lock up in the looney bin for getting pregnant out of wedlock. Seeing their kids die poverty because the father would not acknowledge them. Being slaves to horrible husbands who they had to marry because they had become pregnant.

These girls need all the support they can get not slaggin off.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 06:58 AM

So at least we now understand where your hang up on men comes from, Kara.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: The PA
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 07:12 AM

I understand that this is a very volatile subject. I have worked full time all my life (30+ years) and raised a family and paid my dues.

But really Beth to describe them all and tramps and tarts is really going too far.

That is simply too much. I am assuming you do not know all of the people in this situation personally. How do you know each individual persons circumstances or social history. What gives you the right to describe people in such a way.

I hope you will think again before reacting in such an unfair manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 08:33 AM

Maybe some of you should read freakonomics:
http://www.freakonomics.com/ch4.php

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:00 AM

freakanomics



There's the link. Of course there are lies, damned lies, and statistics....

But I like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:11 AM

Young single mothers perform a very important function in society. They give a lot of grumpy peope something to bitch about. They should be appreciated for the role they play. They take people's minds off important things like tax breaks for the ritch, government corruption and how to get rid of your dog's fleas.

It's very, very important to keep bitching on about single mothers - it shows you have your priorities right. you can pick on their children too, doing that will help develop your debating skills and build your self esteem.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Grab
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM

Young mums reckon having a baby will let them escape a drudery of taking a low paid job. It will give them a home of their own and they can collect generous state benefits and enjoy a better life.

Well, that's what they think. Are they right?

We get a house, it's also fully kitted out for us top to bottom

A "fully kitted out" council house means intact windows - back in the real world, that's the best you're going to get. Turn it down, and you'd better have somewhere else to live, bcos it takes a year to get anywhere else.

and with two kids you can rack in at least 200.00 pounds for yourself after all the bills are paid, it's great.

This sounds like some teenager who's yet to find out how much things cost. £200 a month ain't too bad for providing food and clothing for a mother and two babies. For providing food and clothing for a mother and two school-age kids, it's pretty damn short.

And I'd like to know where the £200 figure came from. If it's from getting a second job whilst also claiming benefits - well, you can get away with it for a bit, but these days it's all computerised and they'll catch up with you eventually, and the result is often jail time.

Researchers spoke to young mums and dads aged 13 to 22 living in Britain and found the vast majority did not regret having a child.

And what were people expecting? That they'd say, "I hate having a child", in the presence of people who are recording what they're saying and could pass the results on to the welfare services? Even then, the basic fact of parenthood is that no matter how horrible their kids are, there's very few parents who regret having them, bcos it's too deeply embedded in the animal fact of parenthood.

Also remember that they're young. There's plenty of people who get the midlife crisis thing of reaching 35-40 and realising that they're working themselves to death for no benefit to themselves. If they're going to, *that's* where these girls are likely to regret it, not when they're 15-20 and it still looks like a big game.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: The PA
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 11:56 AM

HERE, HERE, FREDA UNDERHILL !

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 12:31 PM

I'd like to know more about the crime vs unwanted pregancy theory (link above). It makes sense to me because the point is really whether or not a woman wants a child. Could it be true that abortion has reduced the crime rate? If so, it seems that the only thing we have to worry about is whether or not a woman wants a baby because unwanted children have more of a chance of becoming criminals.

As Don said, caring and educating children is security for your old age. If they do not receive adequate food, shelter and clothing, they will not be able to contribute to society in a meaningful way.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 01:19 PM

"As Don said, caring and educating children is security for your old age. If they do not receive adequate food, shelter and clothing, they will not be able to contribute to society in a meaningful way."

If as appears to be the case in so many different ways, the child/Mother/person gets food shelter and clothing in return for no apparent input other than occupying space. Then the person resulting is likely to be lazy shiftless, and unmotivated.
People who get something for nothing very rarely appreciate it. Producing a child is not a magic trick, whereas producing a good citizen is a labour of love.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:05 PM

We should stop throwing money at people who have babies. When my first wife and I had our children there was no such thing as paid maternity leave and we had to take responsibility for our actions by financing them all by ourselves (other than approximately £5 per week 'child allowance'. This is a perfect example of the ridiculous 'nanny state' we've got here in the UK now, where people behave in any feckless way they choose and expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab. Maybe if these daft lasses had to finance their sprogs themselves they'd think twice before opening their legs and expecting to have a good living paid for out of my hard-earned taxes. It makes my blood boil.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:19 PM

Bitch and complain all you want, you can not legislate morality.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:34 PM

To GUEST 06.58am...I personally admire someone who can speak up about their own experience of life and so I do with Kara. You however are such a put-down merchant you can only make a ridiculously negative comment about 'hang-up'. You need to grow up and show people who bare their sould encouragement, not try to ridicule them.

Subject: RE: BS: Generous Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jul 06 - 02:41 PM

Teach your children that what's between their ears is more important than what's between their legs, and you're more than 99% towards improving both their future and ours.
Giok