Music of South Africa

Subject: Music of South Africa
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:26 AM

In answer to some questions and an interesting sub-discussion on the Kenneth Griffiths Obit I have started this thread.

I was asking what Folk Music was around in SA nowadays. All we tend to get to hear are excepts from people like Ladysmith and Paul Simons 'adaptation' (?) of that style. Rather than get into a long debate about what is and isn't folk music perhaps we can just say what folk music, of any style, is around in SA today?

Funny, I have just been on Derek Brimstones new web site. First thing I spotted was his autobiography 'I'm glad I practised'. I believe the title to be a reference to Dereks stay in South Africa. He was sunbathing on a yacht, sipping something nice and cool and being generaly pandered to when a voice calls over "Derek, aren't you glad you practised?".

Not sure who the voice belonged to but I believe he was on tour with a few others who had defied the embargo on the apartheid regime to tour the area. Now there is no embargo and that travel is much easier is world-wide folk music making a resurgence? What should we be watching for coming out of Africa?

Look forward to your comments.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:48 AM

Used to love the old Kwela music, the penny whistle bands made a wonderful sound. Don't know what's going on today.
Giok

Try here

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Gwen
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:17 AM

Mr MacKenzie and Mr DtGnome:

Paul Simon/Ladysmith Black Mambaza is pretty much ridiculed around these parts, particularly by black musicians who find it all a little patronising. Not that one wishes to underrate Paul Simon, but, well, it is very much Simon on Simon for Simon, by way of short detour through Ladysmith B.M. That whole experiment was reflective of a short period in the '80s, when we had groups like Mango Groove, who also tried to do what Simon did.

Folk music - particularly from Britain - is emerging again for people in SA, but a lot of it is obscured by the current fad for "Celtic" and "Druid" music (a capella women's voices chanting, very Stonehenge type stuff) - it would be good to have your recommendations of who to listen to. Can you suggest anything? The global fusion thing in music is sometimes fabulous, but also, alas, sometimes a huge contaminant of art....

Mr MacKenzie - the pennywhistle and kwela are still VERY much alive and well. NOwadays it falls into a category called "township jazz" which is enjoying a massive revival. I don't know whether you have access to much African music where you live, but I very very strongly recommend you try to listen to an artist called Simphiwe Dana (she is quite new), also to Jimmy Dludlu (guitarist) and above all to a group called Bongo Maffin (yes, that IS spelt right!). These are all very exciting, vibrant genres which are continually evolving.

Thank you -

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM

Ooooh, crikey. Who would I recommend? Well, the afore mentioned Mr Brimstone is always worth a listen. Not exactly new stuff but good all the same. I also recommended recenly that club and festival stalwart Geoff Higginbottom. Like many of his ilk who tour folk clubs and festivals year after they he is very underrated. New-ish ones you may or may not have heard of are Kate Rusby (not my cup of tea but very popular) and Bellowhead (both popular and to my liking!). The old favourites are still about of course, Steeleye Span are still touring with a line up which, IMHO, is one of the best they have seen. Carthy is still about with various other people.

Just keep on here, froots and the BBC folk page to keep up with world music. WIth the advent of so many internet radio stations playing 24 hours a day I am sure you will find something to your liking:-) Off to browse the webwaves myself now in search of samplings from your list!

I had sort of guessed about Ladysmith btw - I think Paul Simon does that a lot - He had already 'borrowed' as much as he could from English folk before he moved onto Africa. South America was next. Not sure what it is now.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 12:34 PM

I've added a link to this thread to the African Music and Posts Thread that I started a while ago.

I started that thread for those who may be interested in this subject and didn't know how to use the search engine or otherwise find archived Mudcat threads on African music.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM

We went to see the Soweto Gospel Choir recently and loved them. Maybe not ethnic enough for some but personally I like the vocal sounds in the tribal sequence (wedding ceremony) at the start of "Zulu" which the SGC sometimes reminded me of.

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 03:46 PM

Whapweasel, 422, Duncan Macfarlane Band

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM

Not sure if they count....

Freshlyground at Warwick Saturday and they were brilliant.

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:01 PM

It's a great question and I don't have a clue who might be qualified to deal with it.

I do know that when I was a Peace Corps teacher in Ethiopia in the mid 1960's I was treated to some incredible singing from a trio of South African refugees who were resident at our school. I had never heard harmony singing with each individual being one note in a chord done so perfectly before. They were singing some of their revolutionary anthems. I was music director for a special event at the high school and contributed Pete Seeger renditions of "If I had a Hammer," "Kumbya," and "Which Side are You on." I do wish I hadn't lost my recording of what they sang, but it's long gone.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Gwen
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 01:55 AM

Folkiedave, yes, absolutely Freshlyground counts! I love them too. They are very very big indeed in South Africa. Tho, again, I would not class this as "folk music" -

Mr Dave the Gnome, re your comment on Paul Simon ransacking different cultures in search of fusion: we have seen an absolute plethora here of South American influences, overlaid on just about anything, from rock to folk to gospel, even to Baroque!!!

At the moment, in this country it has never been easier for untalented artists to get signed up to a label and release an album. Result: hundreds (literally) of once-off releases from totally obscure singers (especially female ones, don't know why that should be) with a hastily thrown together backing group, borrowed compositions and no idea of what they are trying to do musically. In a way, it is a good thing, because in all the flotsam and jetsam, the truly worthy artists emerge too. But it is tedious, also. I think it is an offspin of the "new South Africa" thing - the identical thing is happening in literature. Everyone and anyone is writing (and being published): 99% of it is cheap rubbish, but now and then a real gem emerges. We are very estranged from the British folk scene. Irish traditional music occasionally gets a platform here (far too little of it) but almost no English artists, and nothing at all from Wales or Scotland.

I will search for your recommendations, Mr DtG, thank you very much for those.

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 07:41 AM

Gwen, thanks for joining in this conversation.

I was very interested in your comments as it 'sounds' as though you live in South Africa. I hope that you will join Mudcat. We need to hear more from people who live in that part of the world.

For instance, I'm curious about reggae music in South Africa. Is it popular in South Africa? Actually, I guess that might be an unfair question sinc it depends on how you measure popularity...for instance, in the USA, depending on where you live, you'll not find much reggae music on the radio. In the 1980s there was a university run radio station in Pittsburgh, PA that had a 3 hour contemporary reggae show in the evenings at least once a week. But that's been gone for a while. Yet, in my opinion, dub reggae and dancehall reggae [if they're not the same] have had a powerful influence on contemporary R&B and hip-hop music. And if you listen to Black urban [R&B and hip-hop radio stations-which admittedly, I rarely do-you'll hear an occassional dancehall reggae song-especially from Sean Paul and a few other artists whose names escape me now.

In any event, I remember hearing a few songs from the South African reggae singer, Lucky Dube wahsome time ago. I'm curious if this write-up is still accurate:

"Lucky Dube is the son of a single mother who thought she could not have children. Her first child therefore was given the name "Lucky". Dube (pronounced "Dobe") is a town area in Johannesburg.
Lucky Dube had a tough upbringing and lived in turn, with his mother, grandmother, and an uncle. He began to sing in bars in his home town and in church. He and his comrades began drumming around and started a band, but they couldn't afford to buy instruments. They tried to persuade moneyed people to sponsor them but, when they were unsuccessful, Lucky Dube wrote a play that the guys performed. This brought in just enough to purchase a guitar, and they started the Skyway band. They began by playing mbaqanga. They were together for 2 years before Lucky Dube joined the Love Brothers, a mbaqanga band led by Richard Siluma, who later became Lucky's manager.

After a few years as a mbaqanga singer Lucky decided, in the early 1980s, to switch to reggae. The influence came from artists like Bob Marley and Peter Tosh. He had his baptism of fire as a reggae artist when he played at the Sunsplash Festival in Jamaica, before the world's most critical reggae audiences, and was a success.
Lucky Dube makes a type of melodious, African reggae that slowly but surely has turned him into a superstar. He sings powerfully in English about social problems, the blacks' struggle, and God's greatness. With the song, "Together As One", he became the first black artist in South Africa to be played on a white radio station. He has had no formal musical education, but nevertheless plays several instruments and arranges his own songs. His first two albums, "Slave" (about alcoholism) and "Prisoner", both sold over 500,000 copies and are the best selling disks ever in South Africa. Today Lucky Dube is one of Africa's most sought after artists and tours the world over."

Source: Lucky Dube

Also, for those who may not be familiar with African reggae, here's the URL for an online article on that subject: http://www.rootsworld.com/reggae/reggaeafrica.html

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Simon Cooper
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:27 AM

As far as "folk" music is concerned there is still plenty of traditional music to be found and not just from black South Africans. There is a lively Afrikaans music scene based around anglo concertina bands.

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:48 AM

Was it Andrew Tracy that had a steel drum band many years ago? Is he still active?

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:16 AM

Hi Simon - any examples of the Afrikaans music? I play anglo and would love to have a listen.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Gwen
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:32 AM

Azizi, I do live in SOuth AFrica.

Reggae is enormous here, because Rasta is a very popular religion. Bob Marley enjoys the status of a demi-god. But it has been mutated into many offshoots of the original - it has been imported into a kind of hybrid SA hip-hop, and is also very prominent in rap. Radio stations and TV music programmes play it endlessly. The result is a weird marriage of Jamaican-style reggae with African instruments, and then lyrics in vernacular black languages. But it is not the only music flooding the waves here. As I said earlier, House music (which is a bastardisation of '70s disco, with very prolonged tracks and ingenious mixes by DJs) is also huge. And then, of course, there is hip-hop.
The review on Lucky Dube is accurate enough regarding his background. Most black artists began in very makeshift township circumstances, and mbaqanga (a form of township jazz) has been the platform for a lot of them. Dube is still active, though he is not as popular any longer. He has been overtaken to a large extent by the new generation of artists. The music industry has changed a great deal since his heyday. Hip-hop has splintered into lots of genres like Afro-pop, ghetto hip-hop, etc.
I would be inclined to query the assertion that his two hits were the "biggest selling ever" in South AFrica. I think that is untrue.
For the devotees of more conventional Reggae (a la Tosh and Marley), Lucky Dube is still a big name. But he cannot attract the same kind of attention as, say, Arthur Mafokate (solid hip-hop), Freshlyground, Nthando (Afro-pop), Zola, Judith Sephuma (gospel), Zamajobe (Afro-pop/soul), Skwatta Kamp, Kabelo (kwaito - hard-core township-based pop, using lyrics about the township in township slang) and others.

It is a very exciting time,creatively, in this country. Generations of youngsters are revelling in the freedoms of the new SA, but it is still a very embyronic stage. Music genres change every day. Artists come and go overnight.

Hugh Masekela, of course, is still an enormous name - and still pulls the same crowds wherever he appears. He is also still releasing albums very regularly. He really is a phenomenon in his own right.

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 11:14 AM

Thanks for your response, Gwen. Also thanks for including names and genres of artists.

With regards to Hugh Masekela, I had the pleasure of hearing him live at a nightclub in New York City around 1967. He was 'substituting' for Miriam Makeba who was ill. I've been a fan of Hugh Maskela's ever since.

I noticed that you didn't include Miriam Makeba in your comments. Isn't she still actively recording and performing?

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Kaleea
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 05:45 PM

I was once playing my whistle for a group, & I saw some gentlemen came down the hall & listened. Afterward, they told me that they have that kind of flute in their country (Nigeria).    I asked which of them played, & pulled a couple of extra D whistles, handed them to the gents & asked them if they'd like to play a tune for me. Wow! It was terrific!!

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Gwen
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:32 AM

Dear Azizi:
I did not include Miriam Makeba because she is now an elderly woman whose voice is only a fraction of what it once was. She still makes token appearances here and there, but she is frankly long, long past her prime, and should not be performing at all, because I think she does herself a disservice by it. Also, her type of material is really much more conservative traditional - not at all in the same category as the other genres we have been discussing.
KAleea: I don't know what instruments those were, but they sound magical. I wish I could have heard it too.

Azizi,maybe something worth mentioning to you: there is a spectacularly talented woman called Sibongile Khumalo, who is - in my humble opinion - the most riveting artist to come out of this country in many decades. Her voice is unforgettable. She does not perform any of the genres above: she combines jazz with traditional African music, and also performs a lot of classical stuff, for which she is trained. She is a professor at a local university, chairing the Music & Opera department, but she does sometimes perform live, and these events are usually sold out months in advance. If you are able to, try to get hold of the soundtrack to the movie "Amandla: A Revolution in Four-Part Harmony", which was very popular some years ago and tells the story of the role music played in the SA liberation struggle. On this soundtrack, you will find Sibongile Khumalo performing one of the anthems of that struggle - it is called "The Untold Story" - and she is accompanied only by a pianist. It will give you some idea of her power.

She has also released a number of albums, all of them splendid.

Sorry if this is untoward - I know this is a folk thread, but I cannot exclude her from my own view of SA music.
(On the same soundtrack, you will find Abdullah Ibrahim - now back in SA and still amazing, better than he has ever been. You will also find Joe Nina, and various other great artists.)

Thanks!!

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:34 AM

Gwen, thanks for that information!

I'm definitely going to check out those artists who you mentioned.

Also, Gwen, you wrote that "'I know this is a folk thread, but I cannot exclude her from my own view of SA music".

I just wanted to mention that the definition of folk music is fluid here at Mudcat. Some here have a wider definition of what folk music is than others.

But even if there are some Mudcatters who thought that all the artists you mentioned didn't belong to the folk music genre, the thread title is "Music of South Africa". Therefore as far as I'm concened-all those artists fit- and I'm sure there are more! In other words, please don't hesitate to refer us to artists whose music you admire.

Best wishes,


Azizi

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:48 AM

I found various online references to Sibongile Khumalo. Here is one link to information about this South African artist:

http://www.music.org.za/artist.asp?id=99

Subject: RE: Music of South Africa
From: GUEST,Simon Cooper
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 03:08 PM

Dave

I have a couple of CDs called Konsertinaklubmeesters vols 1 and 2 on TEAL Records which I picked up in South Africa a few years ago. They are samplers of a range of anglo players. Most of the tracks are polka type dances or waltzes with a European flavour. Some of this Boeremusik is available here

http://www.emusic.com/

This is a relatively cheap legal MP3 download site and there must be about 20 CDs of this kind of music available under traditional folk. There are a few samplers, or try Nico van Rensburg.

Simon