BS: Old radios

Subject: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 06:26 PM

We just bought a 1947 Plymouth car, and everything works except the radio. It is of course, a tube type, and although it hums and buzzes, no music or any kind of voice. The antenna is plugged in and extended but nothing but buzzing.
Any idea?

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM

I'm jealous, Kendall. That's quite a car.
Portland is a big enough town that there should be someplace that still sells radio tubes and may have a tube tester. Pull out all the tubes - remembering which one went there - and clean all traces of dust off the radio. Replace any tubes that test bad or weak - most are probably OK. If you can't find a tester, look to see if any tubes don't glow red, and replace those (sometimes, tube can glow and still be bad, however).
I think that tube-style car radios also had a plug-in vibrator that tended to burn out. See if you can test that.
This Google Search should lead you to some good information. This page tells how to repair radios from Chrysler Imperials, which shouldn't be much different from your Plymouth.

When I was about eleven, my hobby was collecting and fixing radios. I was very proud of the huge old Zenith shortwave I had, and I was thrilled to listen to Radio Moscow and Radio Havana Cuba. I was a "regular" at the drugstore tube tester.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:03 PM

Me too, Joe. I loved those big old Zeniths with the shortwave tuners in addition to the regular tuners. My neighbor had a ham radio tower so we attached an antenna and got the greatest reception.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:25 PM

Be careful when you clean off the dust! I have a 1932 floor model Philco that WAS working until I decided to clean it. The problem with the old radios is that they are very delicate. The good news is that it can be fixed, it just depends how much time and money you want to put into it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:41 PM

I have an old PYE ("with the magic eye" ) in my shed, if anyone wants it ??

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:07 PM

Awww, forget gettin' it workin', Capt'n... There weren't a lot of stuff worth listenin' to in '47 unless yer into Benny Goodman...

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM

I think that tube-style car radios also had a plug-in vibrator that tended to burn out.

I wouldn't touch that line with an eleven-foot pole. Where's Peace?

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:35 PM

Kendall, my Rog, a broadcast engineer who's played with these kinds of things all of his life, says it wouldn't be the plug-in vibrator (oh, my!) as you wouldn't get anything if it were bad.

If there is a lot of hum, it could be the filter capacitors which can be easily replaced. He says you just take them out and replace them; get them from any electronics parts store. And, if there is nothing else coming out a vacuum tube is probably bad.

If you want to pick his brain, send me a PM and I'll give you his number.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: NH Dave
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:36 PM

Some folks can take anything and make filth out of it.

Me too sometimes.

The vibrator was used to chop the car's 6 volt DC battery voltage into alternating current that could be run through a transformer to step the voltage up to something that could be used for the plate voltage of the tubes, to make them work. Today with very low voltage transistors and integrated circuits, this isn't needed much any more. Since the vibrator was constantly making and breaking a 6 volt voltage with plenty of amperes of current, the points could get really arced over and the whole thing wouldn't work. I'd be surprized to find new vibrators available today, but a couple of hours in a parts store should get you most of that you need to make a solid state invertor that will never burn out.

Dave
Who started off in big tube sets, progressed to small tube sets, then to sometimes transistor sets, and now lives in an era with only one tube in *some* electronics, is the picture tube.

Back then we just knew that transistors and solid state would never overtake vacuum tubes, but over 25 years ago I was given a tour through a Cobra Dane radar sysem where even the antenna was merely a surface of high powered solid state transistors, that didn't rotate. The beam was made to move by the phasing of the drive voltages to the transistors that made up the face of the antenna. Those transistors had power cables a good 3" across, so they could light anything up all the way to Moscow.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:40 PM

Try this place in Arizona for old tubes and more:

                                                    Antique Electronic Supply

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:45 PM

You can also fix a vibrator by opening it up and cleaning the contacts with a matchbook cover. However, solid state replacements are available.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:46 PM

I love it when womenz talk dirty...

Awww, jus' funnin'...

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:52 PM

Good suggestions all. It would be nice to get it working again, but of course it's an AM radio and there's not much on that band. I'll look it over and make a decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:05 PM

Another source for "vintage" radio parts is

www.radiodaze.com

They carry a decent selection of tubes, capacitors & other componebts & parts & the ever popular vibrator replacements.

And Air America Radio is on AM in lots of places!

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bert
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:12 PM

Radio Shack used to be able to supply a transistorised replacement for a vacuum tube.

Ask LEJ.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: MarkS
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:18 PM

Also check the antenna lead - corrosion might not let any signals through. Same for any ground connections, and look for corroded or loose wires for the speaker. These usually are plug in or nut on a stud connection.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:37 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bee-dubya-ell - PM
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:19 PM

I think that tube-style car radios also had a plug-in vibrator that tended to burn out.

I wouldn't touch that line with an eleven-foot pole. Where's Peace?"

Funny you should ask, BWL. I was gonna say words to the same effect as yours. (Probably, "Copied without comment.")

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: fat B****rd
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 02:24 AM

Isn't that the car described by Dean Moriarty in "On The Road" as a"Fag Plymouth"
No offence intended of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:56 AM

This outfit is in Connecticut:
http://www.oldradiodoc.com/

This outfit is in Oregon, but has some good info & links
http://www.redwoodradio.com/

And lots more info available here:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/antique.html

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:01 AM

I think it is probably working fine, Kendall. It's just that all the transmittors that were working in 1947 have been decommissioned. Unless you can travel faster than the speed of radio waves (Which wasn't TOO fast in 1947) to the outer reaches of the galaxy I don't think you will ver hear them again...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 10:52 AM

I have an old National HRO, military surplus WW2, which I enjoyed for many years. It quit last year. I have spare tubes, but I think the problem is 'other'. Also have a Zenith Transoceanic, also died.
Used to have a friend who fixed old radios. I am hopeless, anything electrical defeats me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 11:08 AM

Ah, yes! Old radios. I have the Halicrafter that we listened to in the kitchen when I was a kid (am and shortwave). I picked up a few old am radios at my great aunt's home in Connecticut when we were doing her estate, and they sit in intresting little niches in my bookshelves. With those old cloth-covered flexes I don't think I'd ever want to try plugging in any of them. The oddest one is a Kadett Junior "pocket radio." About the size of a thick paperback novel (think Gone With the Wind).

It is my understanding that those vacuum tubes can be repaired, though I don't know if it is worth it or if replacement is still easier and/or cheaper.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 11:51 AM

Depending on where you're located of course, there still are numerous AM radio stations available. In my area, one of our favorites shares call letters with an FM version. The AM station specializes in "old style country" while the FM is "modern-country-rockabilly-progressive-newage junk".

Assuming that a tester can be found, the tubes are the logical first suspect and they should be tested and any "bad" ones replaced.

A good voltmeter is sufficient to verify that the supply voltages are present and correct. In a 1947 radio, filaments probably will be 6V and the "plate voltage" will be 75V, 90V, or 150V if memory is correct. The proper voltages can be determined by looking up the ratings for the tubes that are in the radio.

The plate voltage (the higher DC) should be checked for "AC content" which, if present in excess would indicate a bad capacitor in the power supply section.

A precision RF signal generator is needed to adjust the frequency of the IF amplifier stage.

Once the IF frequency is set, the same precision RF signal generator would be used to inject signals at "broadcast frequencies" at a few frequencies over the broadcast range (from about 600 KHz to 1800 KHz). The two-stage variable "condensor" is then adjusted so that the difference between the frequency to which the input stage of the condenser is tuned, and the frequency to which the second stage of the condensor tunes the internal RF oscillator is constant over the tuning range and matches the IF frequency. This was usually called the "tracking adjustment" and was generally done by "bending the plates" on the second stage variable condensor. Some skill is required.

A "noise everywhere but no signal" could indicate absence of the internally generated RF, most likely due to a bad tube; or it could indicate that the tracking is off by a very large amount, possibly due to cobwebs or grease and grime on the condensor plates. A third possibility would be a bad "rectifier" tube in the detection (audio) stage.

There is of course always the possibility of corrosion, open joints, missing insulation, short circuits, and other symptoms of simple old age. Radios of this era generally had only 5 or 7 tubes, 3 tank coils, and the tuning condensor, with a maximum of about 3 resistors and possibly a "noise" capacitor at about half the the major components, so there aren't a lot of things to go wrong. Repair and adjustment is labor intensive (i.e. time consuming) if you can find someone with the right equipment who's willing to work on one.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Scoville
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 12:50 PM

I know nothing about radios but I bet that's a heck of a car.

My mother won a 1947 Pontiac when she was 16 (circa 1964); it had been owned by an elderly couple and was top-of-the-line, all-original, in pristine condition, black with a red interior. Unfortunately, she didn't realize it needed water and it overheated one day and stranded her between towns. Her father made her sell it. I don't think she ever quite forgave him for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 04:31 PM

AH--a 1947 Plymouth. That was the first car my family ever owned. Total cost (I think I recall) approx. $800.00. )K 1947 dollars when you could rent a 2 bedroom apartment in NYC (Bronx) for 75.00 a month (with a 2 month concession).

But the car---great options--for 50.00 extra you got the de-luxe model. That meant it had the radio, a heater (hanging under the dash), and---tara===tara----a chrome strip on the side of the car. We sprung for it---and a jealous friend of mine held his hand on the antenna when my dad showed him the radio---and he said--I recall--ha-doesn;t even work.   Nice guy.   They did not have a car. I am happy to report that he now owns much property in Dallas.

Driving the car was a blast--especially in the snow. I learned never to park on a dead end street with a female companion--needed all kinds of help to get out since the wheels just kept spinning and many a push was needed.

I have reminisced---hope your radio works. It took forever to warm up.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 04:53 PM

It is the special deluxe model. Radio, heater, chrome strip. If I knew how to do it I'd post some photos.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:55 PM

But you do know how to drive down a dead end street with a woman in the car--have Jacqui report back to us! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 01:02 AM

I have a few old radios lying around. Been interested since the mid sixties when my music teacher's husband - a Ham - invited me to touch the leads of a large inductor coil to the terminals of a battery...

That's where and when my interest in all things electronic, and eventually computing started...

Been offline for a while, cause my stupid ISP bought the old ISP from MCI, but didn't buy the BPay code number...

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:54 AM

If this works you can see the photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/82714470@N00/

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:54 AM

Curses - another blue clicky that didn't. However, the link is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 10:26 AM

Clickie for the photos.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:05 PM

Thanks John.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:38 PM

Nice car! And a lot of nice photos there, Jacqui! Thanks for sharing the site.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:47 PM

yeah, sure; looks like the paint is lighter on the driver's door; &^*#% piece of junk...
       (Frogprince, pretending to be Clinton Hammond) : }

Actually, it looks cool to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:50 PM

That's one cool car ~ but someone has put the steering wheel on the wrong side of it!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:03 PM

Yes but look at the huge jelly you could make in it.

I quite like old radios and I had a great old valve portable powered by a 90 volt battery. Mostly I liked the dials with the names of towns you never found anywhere else - like Kalundborg and Hilversum. I'm listening to one of those old radios now - hang on I think that somethings happened to the Titanic!

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 07:54 PM

There is no difference in the paint. It's original, and the difference is an optical illusion caused by the angle of the sun.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:05 PM

Your chain was being yanked, Kendall.

Yes but look at the huge jelly you could make in it.

What on earth does that mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:03 PM

It looks like a jelly (jello) mould.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:13 PM

If you really want a big jello mold, you want a Packard or Hudson from, say, 1950 or 1952.

I did think the door was mismatched, but that would be so incidental on an otherwise good clean car of that age. If that original paint looks half as good in full scale as it does in the photos, that car is a jewel.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:18 PM

It GORGEOUS!! What fun!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 04:06 AM

Do I take that these "tubes" are what we call "valves" in the UK.

If so, I have an old portable "tube" reel to reel tape recorder that is very heavy to carry around but sounds great, I also have an old "tube" radiogram which I purchased when the wonderful new "stereophonic" sound was invented!!, and it came complete with a "full frequency stereophonic sound" demo record. AAh, sweet memories.

From now on I shall call them tubes, I like that better,




whb

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 04:25 AM

The best car for a jelly (jello) mould in the UK is the good old Morris Minor. Lovely rounded shapes, not unlike a Botticelli painting.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 04:47 AM

In Aussieland, 'tubes' contain beer mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:29 AM

Or prawns, FT.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:32 AM

The paint is original, and the car was always garaged. The chrome trim is excellent.

The Morris Minor is one of my favorite cars. However, Botticelli, I don't know about that! The MM has never made me think of the Birth of Venus!

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:35 AM

Not even a whisper of rounded curves, those full hips and sensuous thighs? Maybe it's a fat girl thing........

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:49 AM

Come to think of it, those front fenders do make me...never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:07 PM

There see... knew the Cap'n would get it....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:00 AM

I prefer the shape of 60s open sports cars myself - the long slender thrusting bonnet, with those two bulging wheel arches at the rear...
had a Healy (NOT Sustin Healy) 100/4 myeslf for a while...

Subject: RE: BS: Old radios
From: kendall
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:35 AM

There's something about driving a real sports car that turns Casper Milktoast into Sterling Moss.