Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)

Subject: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 07:30 PM

What I want to know is: is this just me?

I never really enjoy playing gigs. I never feel like I'm doing myself justice or playing as well as I do at rehearsals, and it feels as though I'm just muddling through with my eyes shut. It's a case of just getting through the numbers without accident, and relying on the work I've put in at rehearsal. I find it really hard to invest my performance with meaning and emotion.

And yet somehow this doesn't seem to matter. Sometimes even when I've felt as though I could have texted in my performance, I've had people tell me they were really moved by it.

Consequently I can't tell whether a gig is going well or not, because it always feels like it's going really badly until afterwards. I can only tell whether it was any good retrospectively, by the number of people who come up and congratulate us and what they say. I can't even seem to tell from applause levels most of the time, as it tends to always sound about the same to me.

How do you actually gauge whether you're any good? And is it actually possible to have a performance where you feel you're aceing the whole thing as you go along?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 07:48 PM

I understand how you feel. We've had gigs that I thought were less than perfect that the audience have reaaly enjoyed - at least that's what they say. I'd encourage you to tape or ever videotape a performance sometime. I noticed that I rarely smiled and looked rather pissed off as we performed - when actually I was just trying to concentrate.

Whenever possible - look like you are having fun. Your audience will too.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 07:55 PM

I think it is maybe a personal thing, but I always feel that I could have done better. I sometimes feel that something has gone really well and that is usually when I have felt more confident and almost forgotten that I am actually performing to others. I think all performers seem to find the experience different.
It is interesting to listen to different people say how they conquer nerves. I find if I shut my eyes I feel less intimidated by the idea of an audience...however...i think i look a bit of a pratt when I do that so try not to!
One think I have found helpful, is to have some mates who also perform, who will look for good points in your performance...as well as those that can be improved. I know, when I am feeling more confident, I sing and play much better. I think it is good to focus mainly on what is strong in your performance but still try to alter or improve those aspects that need work.
Is it possible to get to a point where you feel your performance is perfect? I rather hope not. I am only performing at a very amateur level but I hope to always look to add something extra to what I do. Sometimes, you need to find the right audience for your type of music, too. You could perform the most beautiful set of country ballads, with near perfect execution, but if your audience is wanting the Irish Rover to jump up and down and sing along, to...you won't be that well received.
Good luck with your performing!...I find it very scary but sort of satisfying, most of the time. If others don't use your 'spot' to go to the loo/have a fag/got outside and ring their great aunty Flo up...you probably aren't doing that badly! :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 07:59 PM

Just noticed the 2nd post in this thread, which crossed with mine...I agree re looking like you are having fun...it is difficult when you are concentrating hard, to relax and do just that, but it really does look loads better...and...if you make a mistake act, grin in an endearing way rather than looking worried and apologetic...not that any of us make mistakes...but you know....one of those 'jazz chords' that pops into a song sometimes?!!!!!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 08:09 PM

I LOVE gigging, and LOVE audiences...make me perform better
I love playing with my audiences and am not that fond of sessions/jaming for that reason.

And bear in mind that if you close your eyes all the time, that limits the contact you have with your audience. Better to pick one person to play to, IMO

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:02 PM

For ME, I can't agree with that "one person" approach.

I am a solo singing act, and I make a point of looking around, making eye-and-smile contact with people in the audience, smiles appropriate to the context of the song, most of which are funny.

Even if the audience is too large, or the lighting is wrong, to ACTUALLY meet the customer's eye, I will look at different spots just as if I were meeting the eye, exchanging grins, etc. In any line of a song, I'm likely to "look at" two spots in the audience.

If I can see the reactions of the listeners, I can tell whether I'm coming across with the song, because I get the reactions in their faces.


Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:21 AM

It is helpful to hear how others get the best performance out of themselves...I really liked the suggestions made by Dave and I think I do try to do that, unconsciously, anyway, because when I read it, I thought, oh why didn't I put it like that? I think you use strategies without even realising a lot of the time.
I read Sorcha's "Better to pick one person to play to, IMO " more in the vein of, engage with your audience...so ...more treat everyone you look at, as though you are just singing/playing for them rather choosing one person to sing your song to and sticking with that. More like, trying to make your performace, personal, as though you actually know your audience. As though playing to a group of friends, perhaps? Much the same as Dave said, really.
I think you learn by your own mistakes as much as anything. The more you perform, the easier it gets I think.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: stallion
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:46 AM

Oh dear, I shall expose myself (no not that way!) I don't get at all nervous now, comfortable with the material, comfortable with the "boys", I do glow pink when I hit bum notes but i try not to worry about it, I can only think of one occasion this year when I didn't hit a bum note during a set, so I had a permanant rosy glow! and only the real pedants notice anyway, by and large people don't notice. One of the secrets of performing is getting eye contact with as much of the audience as possible, keep scanning and smiling, act confident that way you will be forgiven the odd indescretion. Our rehersals are spent sitting in someones kitchen, drinking wine, munching nibbles, discussing arrangements, and some times singing a song all the way through and sometimes line by line and when we perform we just carry that informal atmosphere with us. It hasn't always been like that, i suppose it is an age thing.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:18 AM

Hm. It's difficult.

The sort of material we're doing isn't really smile and joke with the audience stuff - it's mostly quite dark, strange, sad, introspective stuff. I have issues about talking to the audience, I'll do it if I'm just doing a few informal numbers on my own, but if it's a proper set I feel I'd be breaking the mood - my own and theirs - if I did. I don't know if there's a way round this.

Starting this thread was partly reaction to a slot I did at an open mike last night where I got nervous and had trouble controlling my voice. We got asked to do another gig on the strength of it today, so it can't have been that bad, but this is typical really!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:56 AM

possibly you are related to somebody famous, and the music is quite as bad as you think, but people are just trying to ingratiate themselves in the hope of being a friend of someone who gets played on the Mike Harding show, as I am sure you will be - by the sound of it.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: muppitz
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 07:59 AM

I played a festival a few weeks ago and did a "Meet the artist" session on the Saturday morning which I thought went terrible until a woman came to me afterwards and said, "I really enjoyed that, Thank You".
I played a spot in a concert Saturday evening and I really enjoyed it, I thought it went well and afterwards there were a few who told me it was a good performance.
Sometimes, it just feels right.

muppitz x

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:01 AM

"is this just me?

I never really enjoy playing gigs."

Must be you... cause it sure ain't me.... I LOVE gigs!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,BRUCE BAILLIE
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:04 AM

...I've noticed this phenomena in people before, it very often goes that the better you are, the more insecure you are, despite the fact your performance sounds wonderful to everyone else, to you it sounds like shite, you know where you fluffed that note, you notice where you sang slightly off key and because you are good at what you do you know you could've done it better! But remember, most of the audience don't know where you played the bum note/sang off key or whatever cos they were sat there just enjoying the whole performance and very possibly are nowhere near as picky as you.
SO DON'T GET DEPRESSED ABOUT IT - CEASE THE NAVAL GAZING AND YOU MIGHT ENJOY IT MORE!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Scoville
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:14 AM

Depends on the gig. I haven't done this in a few years, but it always seemed like a lot of it depended on the audience and on what I was expected to play. I used to get horrible--HORRIBLE--stage fright but once I got over the worst of that, of course, things improved considerably.

Beyond that, it always spoiled it if the audience turned out to be expecting something different from what we were prepared to play--one audience got quite upset because we didn't do Irish music (we were an old-time string band; we knew a little Irish music but it wasn't our focus and we didn't have anyting rehearsed well enough to play in public). Another was expecting us to sound like Nickel Creek.

On the other hand, we played weddings, etc., where people really just wanted to dance and as long as we kept playing anything at all, they were happy. We were happy.

We got hired for a Christmas outdoor pageant thing once and were all dreading the evening because none of us really knew or liked Christmas music much (but we were getting a free meal and $100 apiece). We practiced Christmas music until we couldn't stand it any more. When we got there, we got through two and a half bars of "Jingle Bells" and collectively forgot everything. Our leader shrugged and told us to start playing "Liza Jane" instead. The audience never said anything. I'm not sure they even noticed the switch and we had a much better time.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:20 AM

Well, I try to make contact with as many folks as possible too. The 'one person' comment was intended for a nervous person.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:24 AM

There are two aspects to a musical performance - what the music is and how well it's performed. Keep in mind that as a traditional musician, you can play music which your audience can't get anywhere else. If the music is interesting and unusual, it doesn't matter if it's perfectly performed.

Once I was playing early music for an alumnae group with my friend the harper. At one point, an audience member said, "I can't wait to hear the piece from the twelfth century!" Her comment made me realize how important is the kind of music on offer.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

"If the music is interesting and unusual, it doesn't matter if it's perfectly performed"

But if the music ISN'T interesting, it won't matter how perfectly it's performed....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:03 PM

Hey this is a great thread.
I think performing is horrible too.
I never feel I did all right and when people say nice things afterwards I feel that they are just being kind.
Sometimes it would be nice to have a band to play in so you can at least get to talk over the gig and problems etc with someone in the same position, I was in a band for a week or so but then one of the others decided they would rather stick to doing their own thing and I was dumped so never will get to find out if its better to have a post gig party or whatever sigh!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:05 PM

"I think performing is horrible too"

Then why do you do it?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:21 PM

Because he is Twangy.

Tim is going to be a resident performer at my club Clinton,unless he chnages his mind. I can tell you that he did a very good job of it two weeks ago as his first time. The trouble is, Tim doesn't beleive me. He wouldn't have been asked to be a resident, if he wasn't capable. I have also had a lot of good comments about him, from other people who are performers.
You need to learn to trust the judgement and comments from people who don't offer praise lightly Tim.
For some reason, your self esteem seems to be a bit low Tim. We need to get that up and buzzing.

Les

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:23 PM

I think a lot of people think performing is a nervewracking experience the first few times...that doesn't mean that it isn't worth persevering a while, if you have enough faith in your music and can get over the worst of the nerves...and can still find people to listen to you...
Although, sometimes it can be a bit offputting when they all wear their ipods and turn the volume up...sigh...

joke :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:25 PM

I better take my cotton wool out in future Rockhen :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:26 PM

Hey Villan, (didn't see your post, before I posted mine,)...don't mention the 'b' word....you know it frightens you when WWW do 'that' song....what do you mean, you don't know what I am talking about?
Hmmmmmm!
OOOps sorry, didn't mean to hijack thread. Is an interesting one, thanks.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:28 PM

Hey Villan...quit sneaking those posts in...you did it again! :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:30 PM

Is that the "Load of B*******"" one then Rockhen - ROTFLMAO :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rockhen
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:32 PM

Oh bless.....I'll explain on Friday, Villan, or maybe Mrs Twangy could if you want to see her blush...oooohh I am mean!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:35 PM

I am sure it won't make me blush Rockhen.

Now lets get back to gigs and being good, cause we are not at the moment :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:37 PM

I'm with Clinton on this....if you hate performing, why the hell do you do it????? PS....ya outta always stick around for a bit and chat with your audience. Might get some new bookings out of that too!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:51 PM

"I can tell you that he did a very good job of it two weeks ago as his first time. The trouble is, Tim doesn't beleive me."

I know a guy like that too.... I used to think it was low self-esteem.... eventually I came to see it more that he's just an attention whore.... NEEDS people to be constantly telling him he's great, so that he can downplay it, so even more people will tell him.

I hope that Tim isn't the same.....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:57 PM

A friend once told me "success is the combination preparation and opportunity"

Another friend said: "99% of the audience is AMAZED at your ability to make a clean C chord."

A third friend said: "Be yourself...with polish."

Prepare relentlessly, perform relaxed and you'll be good no matter what anyone thinks...even you.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 02:05 PM

>>I hope that Tim isn't the same..... <<

Blimey Clinton, I think you may have hit it on the head with Twangy. :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

I always do stick around and talk to the audience - that's the enjoyable bit, and does tend to lead to more bookings. Having said that, after the best gig we've yet done, I found it more trying than anything. I came off stage and just wanted to collapse in a heap, and couldn't move for people coming up and babbling at me. I found the reaction quite strange and overwhelming, and a bit intimidating. It was how I'd always dreamed it would be - but it didn't make me happy.

I've been going for about a year now as a full-on performer (as opposed to bit part player in someone else's band). The nerves are getting easier but yes I do sometimes wonder why I'm doing it if it's not actually that enjoyable. I feel absolutely compelled to, but why?

I suppose love of music for one thing (I get a big kick from the way we sound in rehearsals sometimes), and I do secretly enjoy the fact that people are always quite impressed that I'm a musician.

On the point of getting a well-informed friend to give you a second opinion, this does work for me, but I do find that they tend to want to give me advice, which I find really off-putting.

God I must sound like a curmudgeonly old bag...

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:06 PM

The first time I ever actually performed in front of an audience was at a hospital in Denver. Before that, I had sung at parties and songfests, but never in a "me up here and the audience down there" situation. I expected maybe a couple dozen people at most, but when I walked into the hospital dining room where I was to perform, there were about 250.patients and staff waiting to hear me. I was bloody petrified! When I started off, my hands were shaking so badly that I had to abandon my carefully worked out guitar accompaniment and simply thumb-strum. But when I finished the song, they burst into applause. It suddenly occurred to me that they weren't going to lynch me after all! By the time I was into my third song, I was having fun!

That was something of a turning point. It went over well with the audience, and after the initial nervousness, I enjoyed the experience so much that I gave serious consideration to taking it up as a career, which I soon did, with some measure of success. I never got rich and famous, but I became fairly well-known locally and I made a halfway decent, if not lavish, living at it.

Although my repertoire consists almost entirely of traditional songs, I don't style myself as a "folk singer" as much as a performer or entertainer (Richard Dyer-Bennet didn't consider himself to be a folk singer;   he billed himself as "The Twentieth Century Minstrel."). And as a performer, I feel that if an audience is going to pay good money to hear me, I'd better give them their money's worth, or I won't be performing for long. That means that I practice and prepare for performances.

I haven't totally lost my nervousness before a performance, but it has lost its negative aspect and morphed into my being generally keyed-up and eager to get started. How much the nervousness predominates over the eagerness seems to be directly proportional to how well practiced and prepared I am. I can wing it, but I much prefer to know what the heck I'm doing before I go on.

My sister Pat was a world-class figure skater back in the Fifties. She won two Pacific Coast Championships and one National Championship, and she skated in the World Figure Skating Championships in Vienna (in 1955, if I remember correctly) where she placed seventh behind skaters like Tenley Albright and Carol Heiss. Anyway, my baby sister gave me a piece of advice that I heeded, and it has served me well. She said, "Nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. You can count on something going wrong when you least expect it, and you have to be able to compensate for it. You need to be about 30% better than you think you will need to be to do as well as you should."

With me, that would be a string that refuses to stay in tune, or my right hand fingernails are a little too long or short, or I develop a tickle in my throat that I have to sing over so I won't burst into a coughing fit in the middle of the third verse. . . .   You've all been there, I know. That translates into practice and preparation.   

But as far as I'm concerned, there are darned few experiences in life that can compete with delivering a good performance, getting a big round of applause when you finish—and then getting paid for it! I love it!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM

I know some of those junkies too. Sad,really. I enjoy it all! We are a pretty laid back bunch tho.

95% of the people won't know you made a mistake and less than 1% of the rest will care.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 04:44 PM

Well Got nagged into doing it in the first place and after this year I aint planning on doing it anymore.
I dont get any enjoyment out of it and it takes up a lot of time and energy .
I dont mind helping out by filling in if the local (excellent) folk club has a spot that needs filling in an emergency,but apart from that it causes nothing but trouble and arguements.
I was much happier two years ago when I had only written a couple of songs and only played them at home for the wife.
As for being called names by any one on here well that is about the level I am coming to expect from the self congratulatory self obsesed second raters that would be great if they had the tallent to match their high opinions of themselves
cheers

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM

No sweat, Tim. It does take up a lot of time and energy, especially if you're going to be doing in professionally, and if you really don't enjoy it, don't let anyone talk you into it (Sorry, Villan). That's sort of like your dad insisting that you go into the family business when you'd a helluva lot rather run off and join the circus. I love performing, but I have had jobs that I really didn't like. Telephone sales once. And if I had to do that for the rest of my life, I'd rather just stick my head in a microwave oven. Much quicker. Life is too short to get stuck doing things you don't want to do.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with limiting your activities to getting together with friends to swap songs and jam. A great musical outlet, and I know a lot of people, good musicians, who stick to that, don't go out and perform before audiences, and really don't want to.

Such folks make knowledgeable audiences for show-offs like me.

Do your own thing!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:34 PM

"You need to be about 30% better than you think you will need to be to do as well as you should."

That's really good advice.

On reflection I think a lot of what I'm struggling with is those extraneous things, like starting a number, realising your instrument isn't quite in tune and you've got a whole song to get through like that. Or like a talkative audience. It's things like that that make a gig trying.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:21 PM

I love gigging. To me performing in front of an audience (big or small) is a real hoot. I seldom rehearse, but knowing I've got a gig coming up will make me knuckle down and practice. When I perform I routinely miss a guitar chord now and then and have even been known to forget some of my own lyrics, yet my audience always seems to enjoy themselves.

I have a great deal of fun when I perform. This seems to transfer to the audience during my show and invariably they come up to me afterwards and tell me how much fun it was listening to me sing. I know its difficult for new performers to feel comfortable on stage, but I hope each of you will keep trying and keep improving and learn to have fun at your performances. You will find enormous gratification.

Mike

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 06:24 PM

And if your instrument is a tad out of tune, learn to 'patter' while you re tune. There are some Masters out there to learn from...Seamus K, John McCutcheon, etc.....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Girl Friday
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:52 PM

I am half of a duo called "Tone Deaf Leopard"
We have been playing together for just over a year. We know we're nothing special, but we write funny stuff which seems to go down well all over the place. We have just started doing gigs, and love it.We have a website, and a mudcat thread.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Girl Friday
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:54 PM

Blue clicky didn't work - our URL is http://www.tonedeafleopard.bracehost.com

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:12 PM

We have done more than 10,000 programs in schools and we have gone all the way from sheer terror through confidence and enjoyment to boredom. Here's our theory:

At first, we were scared that we might do something wrong like messing up the words or chords, playing out of tune or falling off the stage. After a sufficient number of performances, we had actually done everything we could think of that could go wrong. We were never struck by lightning, we never had anything thrown at us, and we were never swallowed up by a suddenly appearing hole in the earth. In fact, nothing bad happened to us. In fact, as pointed out above, most of our screw ups weren't even noticed by anyone except us.

When we finally realized that, performing became fun.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 09:55 PM

Burl Ives had pretty much retired from acting and performing and was living in Anacortes, Washington, a small city about ninety miles north of Seattle. I didn't know at the time, or I would have made the trip north, but he did a concert at a local theater or community hall, and fortunately it was videotaped and the tape played on my local PBS affiliate, KCTS Channel 9, otherwise I would have missed it entirely.

Ives eschewed his later fluff like "Mr. In-Bstween" and "Little Bitty Tear" and did a program of the songs that he did on his old Decca records and became best known for early on—traditional songs. "Big Daddy" was in his eighties, but despite the fact that he was ailing, he was sounding pretty darned good, his guitar accompaniments simple and straightforward as usual, and his voice as high and clear as it ever was.

When he first came on stage to a round of applause and started into his first song, it was noticeable that his guitar was out of tune. He winced a bit, but kept right on going and finished the song. He briefly acknowledged the applause that followed the song, then frowned at his guitar. He played a chord, which sounded a bit sour, looked at his audience and raised his eyebrows. Then he set about spending about a minute and a half chasing down and correcting the errant strings. No jokes or patter. The audience waited patiently while he just set about correcting the problem. Then he played a couple more chords and the guitar sounded fine. He said, "There. That's better." The audience applauded again. He nodded and smiled, and launched into his next song.

These things happen. No big deal. The whole concert, including the minor glitch at the beginning and the way the Old Pro handled it like an old pro, was Burl Ives at his best.

I found out about the broadcast of the concert at the last minute, and I wish I wish I wish I'd had the presence of mind to shove a tape into my VCR!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:21 PM

I'll make you a deal TimTheTwangler... you write 'em.... I'll perform 'em

I HATE songwriting, mostly because I'm crap at it and all it does is frustrate me

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:07 AM

Where are you and what sort of stuff do you do?
Do you play finger style?
Do you play folk clubs,pubs,theatres?
I would like to try a collaboration with someone .
I am in the uk,maybe if we are similar area we could try something out?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,Mike Miller
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:48 AM

I think that the cogent question should be, "Why does our shakey Guest perform, at all?". We can assume he doesn't do it for his livelihood, although I have known more than a few professionals who are prone to stage fright (some of the names would astound you).
I suppose he does it as an avocation and, I suspect, he puts himself through these grueling self examinations, for whatever fun he gets out of it. It is a damned shame that he is having trouble accepting the very acceptance he seeks. I went through years of nerve racking, pre-performance panic and after-curtain meltdown before I figured out that the audience knew more about what was good than I did. So, I stopped performing for myself (Playing what I wanted to hear) and started playing for them. If they want a polka, they get a polka. I know quite a few. I know that not everyone goes into performing for the same reason. Many want to express themselves, to perfect their craft, or for recognition. It may well be that Guest fits into one of those catagories (my guess is number one).
Life got easier for me when I realised that my reason was the opportunity for communication. I discovered that, if you are wearing a guitar or a banjo and a hat, you can walk right up to people and start talking and singing and they don't call the cops, they sing with you. Then, I found out you can do the same thing from a stage. Proximity helps so I try to get the audience as close as possible.
My style might not fit Guest's needs but it has made the second half of my career a whole lot easier than the first. I have been a full time folksinger for almost fifty years, so I have experienced many of the growing pains and, if I had one thing to tell Guest, it would be to talk to your audience and listen to your audience. You will feel more at ease and you will be more able to trust their judgement.

                         Mike

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 02:13 AM

The main thing I suggest to people while performing, is, whatever you do, just keep going, (don't stop unless the fire alarm goes off) and if you make a mistake, DON'T APOLOGIZE. It will just drag your energy down and draw the attention of the 96% of the audience (as noted by others) who didn't notice anything.

W-O

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,GS
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:06 AM

Performance motivation....conditions....health.....confidence on the day...knowing your material....atmosphere of the place...shall I go on? There are so many variables... If you don't like doing it..don't do it. If you do like doing it, get on with it and do it your way within the borders of what the 'constrictions' allow.
20+ yrs ago I was a confident Folk singer...due to reasons I won't go into I left the Folk scene for 18 yrs... I have come back to Folk singing and started songwriting but am finding the singing difficult as my voice is not what it used to be and my confidence has consequently lessened. I still have a go at my local clubs now and again and I sing amongst friends but have put my own limits on myself.
I believe we should do what we are comfortable with IF we want to do it at all.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:09 AM

Willie O
As a club organiser,I couldn't agree with you more.
I have a lot of respect for all performers who get up there and do it. However there is nothing more pleasing than to see somebody who is obviously struggling, hang on in and complete there spot, instead of collapsing altogether and apologising or making excuses whch is just about the worst thing to do.

One thing I have realised is that folk audience are very forgiving and it is heartwrenching to see a performer having a bad night.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:11 AM

Mike
Have you forgotten how to get you cookie back, or is it early morning cobwebs.
Cheers
les