Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 01:01 AM

So the days of anxt on here were wothwhile in the end?
Well done mate and may you have many more like that.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 07:49 PM

Let me expand on that actually - the feedback was that we were brilliant, and I could HEAR people shutting up and shushing each other to listen to us, which is the thing that really makes a difference to how it feels playing to them.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 07:44 PM

Well, thanks to everyone who contributed thoughts and advice.

I played a gig tonight and actually managed to enjoy it. I was less nervous to begin with because half the audience who would normally have been there were at home watching the footy, but I did put some of the advice into action, namely:

1) I had a SMALL drink (enough not to affect my driving by going home time)
2) I talked to the audience and smiled between numbers
3) A number seemed to start out of tune so I stopped it and made us retune (actually it wasn't any better so perhaps it was just my imagination)
4) I forgave myself for the imperfections and lived with the PA not being quite as I would have liked.

And lo and behold it worked. I enjoyed it, the audience thought it was great, and a good time was had by all.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:41 PM

Hi Gs have great Hols and will try a nd get my recording sorted in time. Have asked for entry form and was going to record tonight but MRs Twangler insists we go to The LEaking Boot in cleethorpes to support the fledgling Session there.
If any on eis interested is not a trad session but a slow one wiht simple tunes,but mostly songs of any sort you fancy.
It is a great way to get into the swing of playing ensemble or if you are just a bit slow with the chord changes or a real beginer.
She enjoys the chance to play a variety of stuff on her whistle by ear.
Yes I know wrong orifice but who am I to tell her?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,GS
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 08:54 PM

Very Interesting!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:57 PM

The stolen charms are sadly offered stolen charms.
Now in your culture that might only be capable of being interperated as rape.
But in ours,using english as our first language,
it could mean that they were being stolen by the protaganists,Male and female from a third party ,such as a husband.
This would allow for the unlikely ability of the preexisting partener to be capable of "owning"the emotions of another in the first place.
But I dont want to stray into the realms of USA property lawyers!LOL
If you are involved with someone, who is by the very fact of forming a relationship with you,proving their ability to lie to a loved one. Then you would be foolish to ignore that .
I think that songs are all about interpretation by the listener.
The listener hears the lyric through the filter of their own previous experience and pre conditioning by their society towards the subject matter.
I like that you see it differently to all the people who have heard it previously and it is very complimentary that you have taken the time to listen and make a judgment in the way that you have.
Cheers mate

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

PS won't be seeing you for a couple of weeks as I'm off to Tenerife on Friday. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 03:43 PM

Hi Tim. Had a great rehearsal of my song and it is being recorded on Thursday......Phil (The Fence) is playing guitar, Rosie (myrtle) is singing it and I am doing the harmony. Seems there are a lot of entrants this year so chances of getting into the final ten again are slightly more remote. Hope you do enter...several people I know are entering which is great as it makes for a good final...quality songs.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:37 PM

Damn I thought Clinton was handling the spell check .

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:36 PM

"And your point is?"
Pretty plain if you reread my post....

"Maybe he is wondering at her ability to lie to her partner?"
What business is that of his???


"Maybe She is the one who is giving him the permision to hypnotise her"
Sure don't scan that way.... If there was permission, they wouldn't be "Stolen Charms".. this song borders on saying it's o.k. to rape....

"perhaps She has fallen in love with a guy while at same time loving another"
Maybe, but it's her choice isn't it....


"Maybe it is a song... mood and inclination of the listener."
Maybe? I donno... you're the songwriter... you tell me....


"Maybe it is too complicated to travel."
Doubtful.... very doubtful...

"Or maybe is just crap"
Is it?

"Its all subjective innit?"
Nope.... One can take an objective approach to art.... but one must be prepared for what one might discover....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:35 PM

Oh hi GS didnt see you had posted.
How are the rehersals coming on?
Goona try that comp that you suggested have play song to a few people aroung here and they think it is ok.
Is just finding time this week to record it.
Would be great to go to the final even if not in it myself .
I could bring the tomatoes for your acceptance speach.LOL

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:28 PM

And your point is?
Maybe he is wondering at her ability to lie to her partner?
Maybe She is the one who is giving him the permision to hypnotise her.
perhaps She has fallen in love with a guy while at same time loving another.
Maybe it is a song and is open to interpretation according to the mood and inclination of the listener.
Maybe it is too complicated to travel.
Or maybe is just crap
Its all subjective innit?
Hey if you dont want to add it to your list of covers,and even if you dont end up sending me a copy of you doing it.
It has been good to have your POV about it
Cheers.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:20 PM

The one thing I enjoy most of all about the Folk circuit is the encouragement given to performers whether seasoned players or newbies.
'Some' nice bits and 'some' nice people on this thread. Give it all you've got and I hope you all achieve whatever kind of success you want.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

"romance that has ended and left some one a bit miffed"
And The Understatement of the Week Award goes to......

Holy cripes man... Your protagonist starts off by saying "He'd" rather be lied to.... Then "He" states that if "He" had "His" way "He'd" hypnotize "Her" and MAKE "her" stay against "Her" will..... Later "He" suggests that it might be o.k. with "Him" to KILL "Her"....

Then "He" belittles "Her" wedding day.....

Then in a fit of pique "He" runs off to drown "His" sorrows in beer all the while wishing ill on the people who don't understand "Him"....

It's no wonder "He's" alone....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:40 PM

Well to answer Nick's questions:

"1 Have you ever enjoyed a performance anywhere?"

Yes - the first time I got up on stage to properly "do a song" - just me and a drone - the audience fell totally silent and I knew I was aceing it. It's never been quite the same since. Also I've enjoyed gigs recently where I was just in someone else's backing band and not really been worried about the whole thing.

"2 If you have what made it enjoyable?"

Erm, in the first instance feeling that I'd done myself justice and the audience got it. In the second, not being too worried about whether they did or not, because it was the band leader's neck on the block, not mine. Also possibly having had a drink or two, which is not normally possible as I'm driving.

"3 Are you ever happy with things that you play?"

I often think we sound fantastic in rehearsal when something is really working.

"4 What do you think it is that stops you reproducing that when performing?"

Acoustics for one thing. We rehearse without amplification, usually in a lovely big space with great acoustics. Then you get to a gig and have to wrestle with the PA, mikes, pickups, sound engineers, strange shaped rooms full of people and carpets, people talking etc.

"5 What stops you enjoying performing - is it the being there performing or the things that you are performing?"

I think it's the performing rather than the material. I suppose one of the questions this thread has raised for me is whether I'd enjoy performing more if the material I was doing was less po-faced and miserable. But I've never been good at being amusing in public, so I think that might be worse, and I do like stuff I can put my heart and soul into. The miserable songs are the ones I can relate to.

"Have you being doing this a long time yourself and what sort of places and audiences are you playing?"

Been properly getting up there singing for about six months really (been an occasional gigging musician for a few years), and although we're playing traditional-ish music we're doing it in a weird way and mostly to non-folk audiences (haven't got the contacts on the folk scene). We play regularly at an acoustic club, and here and there on the small indie band circuit.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:44 PM

Hey Clinton you are alive!
Waffle front and back is the amount of time would expect whoever sings song to add while telling audience how clever he is to know a song and be about to sing it,and then how good he was while he was singing it.
The fourteen year old boy bit?
Well i did look through my songs quite carefully because I wanted to find some thing apropriate for you to hear.
So apart from being tedious,too long,too simple,and about an underage romance that has ended and left some one a bit miffed.
Do you think this could be one of your covers?
if no I guess you wont be sending me a version by you?
Cheers for now gotta gig.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:20 PM

Yes of course sometimes my mind totally goes blank. The worse time ever was when had this illness called trigeminal neuralgia - the pain killers I took totally voided my mind for what seemed an infinity of time. I was gigging pubs at te time - singing songs that everybody knows - everybody except me, as it turned out!

sometimes it irritates me that the songs which are occupying all my thoughts and practice time and exciting my imagination, are not ready to perform - not eaten enough eggs I guess.

And worse is when you decide to do something get half way through a piece and realise you haven't practised it for 6 months - usually a request, someone has waited patiently for half the night for - told you they have driven fifty miles to hear you sing the bloody thing.

but all this really goes to show what I'm saying. get the performing thing sorted out. look at those songs which the audience have liked. try and analyse what YOU are good at. then you will maximise those bits and get to look forward to doing them. are there any bits from the songs you've played , you can co-opt into your own songs.

this is really what is meant by tradition - seeing what the Copper family and Bob Dylan have handed down to you. Not all the asinine gurning, and weird singing voices, and singing about redundant crap that no one has experienced - that they would have you believe is 'traditional' music.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:49 PM

I make up me own songs and find that it is great idea as soon after working out chords,words as you can.,to record it.
Is a good reference for if you forget the tune.
Also gives you chance to listen to it yourself (obvious Innit?)
You also get a shock when you work on it for a while and it changes then you listen to original recording again.
I find I have to go with much simpler musical arrangement than I would like if I plan to play a song in public than if is just for family.
It is better for me to have a simple chord sequence (repetitive Clinton) than to try and play how I would really like it to sound because I have more chance of doing it right and that lessens the panic and helps get the words over more easily and bit clearer.
When I listen to accomplished artistes like WLD it just seems to me that although there are mistakes it never seems that level of difficulty or complexity of the playing has been allowed to be compromised.
I often hear a local guy called Dick Appleton play and he is my guitar hero for depth of knowledge and range of styles etc he makes mistakes but then he is playing at a level far above that which most people will ever master and he can play continuously for several hours.
I wish my ratio of mistakes to notes played were as low as he acheives.
How about it WLD do you ever sit there about to play us one of your own brilliant songs and then think at last minute maybe I will leave that sequence of hammering bending and sliding out this time?
Or is that part of what the practice regime should achieve ,to ensure you never play right on the edge of your abilities.
Eerr just realised can preveiw these posts.
So would like to say not having dig at WLD is just have heard him play he is great performer funny witty very dry great songs and playing. I know that he has been there and done it and any advice he gives is likely to be worth having.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:24 PM

"waffle front and back"
I don't know what that means.... but I do have a question... is the protagonist in this song a 14 year old boy? That's who it sounds like....   A jilted, jealous little kid...

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: stallion
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 10:18 AM

I forgot the tape thing, I used to do it a lot to sort out phrasing etc, even singing the melody line onto tape and singing the harmony line along with it. We recorded a cd wich was a useful tool in working out what needed working on, we actually produced it, warts and all, and a recent review pointed out all the things we already knew and have put right but it's "out there" now, I use it a lot for practice! The couple of beers thing works bacause it relaxes the back of your throat and the singing is better however vocal exercises can do the same thing, and don't forget to warm up. As to forgetting words Carthy was singing at a concert recently and forgot the words...."what was it they brought, O bugger, there was five things but I can only remember four.... oh yes....no.....ahh".....the song then continued, I don't suppose he worried too much about it!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Nick
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 08:05 AM

Do you ever record and listen to your performances?

I ask my wife when I am out and singing how I sound and have come to realise that I'm a terrible judge of what sounds good or bad while I'm doing it. Listening to myself afterwards is the best way that I have any idea of what I sound like to other people rather than how I think I'm sounding. When listening to myself on tape I still notice all the mistakes - the notes out of tune; the bits that don't work; the fluffed guitar notes; etc - but I also get an idea of what works and what sounds good and what the overall impression is like rather than the detail as I would guess it's that overall impression that people listening hear. Listening also helps me to make the detail hopefully better next time. Without that I would be lost.
You may do this already of course in which case other question that comes to mind are -

1 Have you ever enjoyed a performance anywhere?

2 If you have what made it enjoyable?

3 Are you ever happy with things that you play?

4 What do you think it is that stops you reproducing that when performing?

5 What stops you enjoying performing - is it the being there performing or the things that you are performing?

I'm that new to doing this myself that I'd be interested especially as many of the things you ask and raise are ones that I (and also my wife) also question.

Have you being doing this a long time yourself and what sort of places and audiences are you playing?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:32 AM

Get a good tuner - so that your guitar is in tune

play within your ability - start frying an egg, and make a sandwich - say the words out loud as you heat the oil, cut the bread, butter the bread, fry the egg, etc. if your mind goes blank before you pop the sandwich in your mouth - you don't know the words well enough to trouble audiences with it. Concentrate harder.

if you haven't finished before you start eating - the songs too bloody long for an inexperienced singer.

Apply this word learning technique to other non egg related activities.

(two and three verse songs are fine - black is the colour is great, because the chords just repeat themselves Am F G, similarly You ain't going nowhere G Am C - you can't get lost in these songs - one less thing to think about - you have to do all your thinking before you get up onstage, you can take it for granted that something unthought of will go wrong - so get as much worked out as you can)

say something - doesn't have to wise or witty, but say something friendly - its only coutresy - they are going to listen to you.
(don't blether on too long - an easy trap to fall into - I do it sometimes, sounds really egocentric and horrible)

Christy Moore said a wise thing once - about the first time he played The Point in Dublin - a big venue - I established they were glad to see me. And then I knew it was okay for me to be glad to be there.

Get someone else to drive. have a drink or two before you go on, and about six when you get off. This will take you through the pain barrier. Its not the healthiest profession in the world.

Knock off the drinking if you can, when you can.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 07:26 AM

Is weird innit is like telling someone having breakdown to pull them selves together?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,JMC
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 06:51 AM

"If Guest JMC is NOT happy performing there are two options ! Either STOP , or learn to enjoy it !"

Good advice there leadfingers.

Given that I'm not planning to stop any time soon, has anyone got any advice for me on how to enjoy it?!? Sounds like a daft question really.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: stallion
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:49 AM

How apt a name, Mud-Cat, hadn't really thought how appropriate it was!

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:46 AM

That was me

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:29 AM

Sounds ok mate you do what it needs to make it fit in with your other covers.
It is a bit long in that version innit?
Then there is the waffle front and back so reckon could make it last ten minutes easy.
Thats time fro lots of bar takings.
hey if you stay awake long enough to try it recording apreciated.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 10:00 PM

Closer listen... well, I'll give it this... it's 4 good chords around and around and around and around for 5 minutes and 11 seconds....

If I did cover this I'd at least tweak the chorus (And sing it less often) so that an Em replaces the Bm in the structure... if only to make it a little less tedious....

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 09:30 PM

The late VERY great Jake Thackeray (sp) used to say that he was a singing oik , NOT a listening oik - Decide which you are - and stick to it !
There is a lot of very good advice from a variety of performers and non performers in this thread - Wether the advice applies to YOUR situation , only YOU can tell - We are ALL different!
A 'star' comedian , talking about Royal Command shows , said " When you STOP being nervous before a gig , THAT is the time to stop gigging as you are then over confident !"
Remember that most of your audience DONT notice mistakes . and the ones that DO will be more impressed by the fact that an error didn't make you stop performing !
We singing oiks come in all shapes and sizes , and the only thing we have in common is the urge to get in front of an audience and perform
and it doesnt matter how big or small the audience is !
If Guest JMC is NOT happy performing there are two options ! Either STOP , or learn to enjoy it !
IF the decision is to carry on , then PRACTICE and KEEP Practicing !

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 03:10 PM

"an old pro"

LOL

That's funny!



Ya... When I get it sussed, I'll try to get a recording of it

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,twangler
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:56 PM

Is very basic first draft words are about right for me but the music is slightly improved.
I dont write the dots so I just do a recording once I have the basic tune and words sussed.
If you decide to play it could you send me acopy of your version?
Mp3 or whatever i would like to hear how an old pro would handle it.
If not no sweat.
Thanks for giving it a listen.
Tim

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:26 PM

" did you get the Mp3 I sent?"
Yes I did, and only have had a chance to give it a curory glance... seems pretty cool so far, but I will sit down and give it a closer scan as soon as I can...

"Would be interested to know if is kind of thing you would play"
Probably.... I'll play just about anything... my 'show' currently includes everything from trad sea-shanties to... ummm.... lets see... I do a killer mellow cover of Iron Maiden's "Number Of The Beast"... I also do a pretty good cover of Prince's "Kiss"

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Nick
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:06 PM

The singing was not me - I play instruments if it's the CD I think you have but the singing is Alistair's who wrote the songs

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 01:01 PM

Cheers Nick got you placed now and yes the Flaxton club is really great been there four times now and feel very welcoming every time.
One of the other guys sent us a cd of your brilliant singing and I listen to it often.
Villan all women are better looking than me I am a guy.
Clinton you are completely correct did you get the Mp3 I sent?
Would be interested to know if is kind of thing you would play
Tried to have listen to your music on your web site but couldnt get it to play.
Maybe you could post a link on here for me too try.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:41 PM

Prefer Sandy Thom's meself, she is much better looking than Tim LOL :-)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Nick
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM

Tim

Some friends and I have a weekly singaround in a pub called the Thompsons Arms in Flaxton which you and your family came and visited a while back - you'll remember you sat in the other bar area as far as possible from where we were singing in a circle until being persuaded to move through and join us and then being encouraged to play :)

As an aside your wife has a very nice singing voice which rarely gets an airing either!

Perhaps you could follow in Sandy Thom's footsteps and broadcast live from home over the internet?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:17 PM

"no room for opinions other than your own"
Huh? Seems more like that accusation fits better on you....

All most people in this thread are saying is "Hey, if you don't like it, don't do it."

What's so hard about that?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:09 PM

I am really sorry Nick but I cant place you at the moment.
I read what you posted and it is very noc to know that things can get better.
We are going up that way shortly and will pm you to find out were I can come and bother you.
I was very disapointed in the band thing,I had always said it wasnt for me but was persuaded that it would be less stressfull and much more fun to have others to share the post gig elation etc.
But it didnt work out so now am back to watching the others that play together being all matey and happy while I continue or not as a Billy no mates.
will get pm done now.
Cheers

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Nick
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 11:23 AM

I spent the best part of 50 years of my life for the most part playing for myself at home and it's only over the last couple of years that I have ventured past that.

I enjoy it now and get a really positive kick out of it and find it a constant surprise that it doesn't scare the life out of me. I also kick myself that I haven't been doing it for the past 35+ years! Over the last couple of weeks I've started to play at places where I/we are on stage and the centre of attention rather than being part of a singaround (and getting it paid for it which is a bonus) which is what I have been used to for the last couple of years. I think I have always wanted to play in front of people but never felt I had the self belief to do it.

I think what has changed is ME accepting that I'm good enough to do it - or good enough that people can enjoy what I do - and also a realisation that I have some sort of responsibility to entertain them rather than trying to entertain myself or 'get it perfect so that I can play it to others'. It has taken me a long time to get over some of the self doubts (does my guitar playing sound crap and cliched? am I singing in tune? does it sound ok?) and I'm sure there will be more to come yet. Perhaps also the fact that my 14 year old son does it without batting an eyelid has made me rethink things!

I have definitely moved out of a few comfort zones on the way (horrible phrase I know but does describe it), perhaps the hardest surprisingly singing in front of my mother, but it has definitely been worth it. I'm not going to headline anywhere and I'm not going to be the main act and tour the folk clubs but I am happy to take my guitar and self to places and play for others. Where it ends up who knows but it is a wonderfully liberating thing to get to here as it was something I genuinely didn't believe I would do (I think I knew I could but didn't see that I ever would). And there is huge enjoyment in that.

For the most part I think people aren't that free with their praise generally - perhaps with the exception of a singaround situation where there is a lot of support and encouragement and where sometimes the amount of positive reaction is more in line with the amount of hurdles that the singer or player has managed to climb rather than whether the performance was something you would ever wish to listen to for pleasure - so part of me coming to terms with it being ok for me to stand up and try and entertain people is that people have sought me out and made positive noises.

For Tim - at the risk of offending you -
Don't play if it makes you unhappy - what would be the point? When you came and visited us in North Yorkshire it did come across how very difficult you find it to start playing and that is within what I hope and think is one of the most non threatening and supportive environments I have some across for people to play. Once you got going though you seemed fine.
At some point you have to either accept that people are telling you the truth or not - if you can't then that's up to you. But there does come across in your posts such a lot of anger (and even a hint of self-pity eg when you got dumped from the band) that it does suggest that it's something that really frustrates you and that you would like to enjoy. If that IS the case then it's worth persevering with because you might find a degree of the pleasure in performance that others do.
And do pop in and see us next time you are in North Yorkshire and give us a song :)

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 05:20 PM

Whats the matter boys no room for opinions other than your own.
I think it is great that you and others like you can bring music to the others of us who love to hear it.
I would rather listen than play.
I can play and sing and write songs I prefer not to I dont have to handle rejection because I never had it as far as music goes.
You see is in my opinion just a matter of personal taste you either like something or you dont.
If you like my songs that is great if you dont well I wont lose any sleep over it.
I dont know why I find it so difficult to enjoy the performance side of things.Lots of my freinds who appear to be in all other ways normal people seem to think it is the best thing in the world.
They get stressed and emotional over whether the audience are gonna like what they do.
I have never had any thing but great reactions when I play.
It could just be a sympathy vote I suppose.
But any way will let you two get on with pissing up each others backs backs and pop back occassionaly to see who is the wettest.
Cheers.
Oh dont know if Mp3 got thru or not let me know if you think you might be able to put it across or not.
Cheers Tim

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 04:33 PM

some forbearance Clinton

the guy wants to play

its not working out

we've all been there - or if we haven't we've missed out on an essential strand in the experience.

a drummer, I once worked with said some wise words to me - I was saying to him the vocalist in our band couldn't handle rejection.

he said - Al, if you can't handle rejection, you can't handle this job.

in a way, it makes the nice bits all the sweeter. cos you know people don't have to be nice.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 01:35 PM

"I still dont like performing"
Then don't... I don't see any body putting a gun to your head and trying to force you....

Though, mostly, in this thread, you sound more and more like you're just looking for attention and praise... And you're argumentative with those who do not stoop to kiss your butt....

Text is very easy to misinterpret however....

"The archeologists in folk music only count stuff as worth finding if it fits their own limited criteria"
But this sounds like wounded cry-babying....

I've never watched "Charmed" but my wife used to, on occasion... hasn't it been cancelled?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 01:25 PM

My grandma is ok,plenty of encouragement has come my way and I still dont like performing.
The archeologists in folk music only count stuff as worth finding if it fits their own limited criteria for being counted as traditional music.
If you wanna be my spell checker thats fine by me,at least you will be able to put all those hours of watching "Charmed" to good use

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:30 PM

"I have my audience,she sita and listens to all the mistakes and always finds something encouraging to say."
So you ARE looking for encouragement? If you want one, you have to be open to receiving criticism as well.... One is hollow without the other. As I've said elsewhere, "If you can only handle being told 'That's nice dear' then only ever show it to your mom... she HAS to say that."

" he is not just another formula folky"
Formula folky... now there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one....

"will ensure that the tradition of acoutic music will carry on"
Yer taking it way too seriously... it's just music.... It's gonna happen no matter what you, or he, or she or they do....

"will these musical archeologists run out of stuff to dig up?"
Because it is a constantly evolving beast, all things old are always new to someone....

"What drives you to want to perform?"
It gets me off in a way nothing else does.... big time! It's more fun than a barrel of monkeys....

"your singing /playing/song writing is only valid if you have other people to tell you so?"

Art is pointless enough all on its own.... It's even more pointless if it exist in a vacuum....

What you need to get is a spell/grammar checker

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:12 PM

First, Bob Gibson once told me when I told him I thought the show I'd just done was not very good, "Art, after a while of doing it, we are much more even than we seem to want to admit! The "bad shows" aren't as bad as we think, and the good shows aren't as great as we thought either."

That said, when I was playing with an audience that knew where I was coming from, and we were on the same page about the music, I would get so into showing folks what I had "found" that I often achieved a state called "FLOW" by Mihaly Chick-sent-me-hi-ye (phonetic spelling) in his book, also called FLOW. When one is in FLOW, time flies an seems to disappear, and you feel so at-one with what you are doing that it's quite intoxicating!

Now, I "learned" how to get 'there' even when I was playing for an audience who wasn't into folk music as I knew it to be. I grew into enjoying myself in less than perfect situations because that was in my audiences, and my own, best interest. What I was doing was more likely to pay the rent as well. I suspect I prefer to call this flexibility/adapting/compromise my "maturation."

An example: During the 1980s and '90s I had ten years of doing gigs every other day---5 months a year---on excursion steamboats (not gambling boats) on the Mississippi River. The audiences were NOT made up of folkies by any stretch!! Often, during a show, a towboat would pass and/or a tornado would float lazily by, or it would just be a lovely sunny day out on deck. When this happened, EVERYONE would leave the room and go out on deck. (You might say, as some did, that I wasn't playing with a full deck!) In this empty room, I did my whole show and the passengers heard it through speakers outside. I could see people approving through the windows---laughing, crying, belching, performing unnatural acts etc. etc.

All in all, I loved it---even when it was depressing. It sure did beat working!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 09:48 AM

Bodrhan is great next time you over this way can bring mine down and you can have a go.
You can get a reasonable one for thirty to fourty quid to start with.
About the price you should pay for a martin guitar.
LOL see you next time at mrfc

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 09:26 AM

LOL Where do you get this wicked humour from Al?

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 09:08 AM

went to saltburn - played trish. but a song about the sea won it.

saltburn was okay, cos I've got a mate that runs the 2nd hand bookshop and I got to see him, and I don't see him very often. and No Fixed abode were playing - Una and tony are always good company. the singarounds were okay, but - you're not exactly a fart in a spacesuit, but you can see they're happier when they get back to John Barleycorn, the rollicking sailors, the pretty plougboys, I could have bee a spaceman said the kangaroo, the willie eckerslyke ee by gum songbook, same old, same old.

i did think of fixing up a pub gig and going again but my medical condition has worsened - so I can't do that. Its a nice town with some great restaurants, and the guest list was quite impressive. wouldn't waste your time on the song competition.

I also went to a great workshop on a bodhhran, which I have always wanted, but my wife won't let me get as she says (quite rigthtly) -it would just remain unplayed like all the other junk. also I think she knows I want one of those with bits of goat hanging off it, and she thinks its in bad taste, and unfair to the goat.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 08:18 AM

Well Big,can i call you Big?
Actualy WLD is quicker aint it?
I think we may be in dan ger of agreeing on some of the things you posted.
That does not very often happen to me and it is a weird feeling.
How did the song copetition go for you at Saltburn mate did yo manage to get there and have a go?
I know you are not a folk singer because you say so at your gigs.
I think that when yo and other original artistes appear at the MR"folk"C it adds so much to the evening and it is the additions to the Trad Folk that keep music for the people alive.
So carry on and hope your medical problems wont stop you coming back for some more.
I couldnt make this last fridays extravaganza but I am sure it was another great night out for music fans.

Subject: RE: Enjoying gigs and being good (or not)
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 08:17 AM

Anyway enjoyed your set last night Al and got the same feeedback from audience. Thanks.

Back to the plot.