BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst

Subject: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Stu
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:30 PM

Muslim leaders in the UK recently sent a letter to Downing Street which stated that UK foreign policy was driving disillusioned young men into the arms of extremism and to change this, the UK government should change its foreign policy.

So how should the concerns of these people be treated? Is this blackmail or a genuine attempt to engage the government in meaningful dialogue? Or are they playing into the hands of the right-wingers who continue to make political capital from the ever-increasing isolation felt by the Muslim people of our communities?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Alba
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

When a number of Citizens of a Country feel that their Goverment is treating them differently from other citizens because of their Religion or Ethnic origins then I would have to say that those Citizens deserve to have their concerns addressed and the Goverment in question be made to examine it's behaviour and it's religious and racial profiling agenda.
What British Muslims are asking for is fair and equal treatment. It is their right as British Citizens.
I do not see this request as blackmail at all. I see this as a very genuine attempt to engage the British government in a meaningful dialogue on these very serious issues.
My hope is that the British Goverment will respond in a positive manner.

Regards to you, Stigweard.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:11 PM

I believe that young people are often disillusioned (its part of growing up). That disillusionment often leads to acting out against parents and society. Its usually short-lived as the individual gains maturity and finds more constructive ways to promote change.

I think if you can put the shoe on the other foot and imagine that another country was stealing your resources, starving your people and robbing them of opportunity, you would likely be attracted to those who were attempting to stop the aggression and destruction.

Its a no brainer.

Imagine if Israel decided to help fund education and technical advances in the neighboring countries. What if they helped them to become strong and independent nations? Would young Muslim men want to destroy their chances for successful lives? I think not.

At this point, Hezbollah provides hope for poverty stricken people ane people blame Israel and the U.S. for that poverty.

What does Israel do to help? Israel and the U.S. are so busy helping themselves they have no time to help others.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:23 PM

Accurately stated, Dianavan.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Barry Finn
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 02:40 PM

Last message disappeared

Hi Dianavan, They are helping (US & UK),,,,, helping themselves.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:03 PM

I suspect there are many avenues of help that the US and the UK routinely perform that don't get the headlines and have become routine.

Fundamentally, education and some sort of organized steering and economic opportunity are enough to turn around a lot of bitter or alienated individuals. If their bitterness has gone so far as to send them into the arms of a fanatic teacher, it is likely to be a MUCH harder task. That's the nature of fanatacism -- it gives one a fine screen with which to filter out lots of aspects of reality and make oneself "right" about.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Aug 06 - 05:52 PM

You're right, Amos. Citizens of both the U.S. and Britain provide help and support for impoverished countries in the Middle East and elsewhere but the governments of those countries have a long history of economic sanctions which impoverish the people. Who does Israel help?

Seems to me that Israel has been on the receiving end of alot of International support (especially arms). They would never even have their nation if it weren't for other nations that were driven by guilt. Maybe its time for them to start giving a little instead of constantly sucking everybody dry and destroying their neighbors. I'm glad Israel is not next door to me or I'd be watching my backyard constantly.

Israel is a desperate nation trying to survive at all cost. That cost is human life. Is life so cheap? Is that the lesson of the Holocaust?

I'd like to see Israel extend a helping hand to others (its about time) instead of constantly extending its hand for more and more and more. Quite frankly, I'm tired of supporting a nation that seems unable and unwilling to acknowlege that others might have needs of their own.

Self-centered, indulgent, paranoid, greedy and insular are the most common descriptions I have heard, lately.

Does giving to anybody outside the tribe even come to mind? No! Its all about increasing the strength and prosperity of their own.

Unfortunately, the Jewish Nation has sold its soul to the U.S. and Britain. I do not believe the Jewish people are so ruthless. Its because they are so dependent that they have to do the bidding of the U.S. and Britain. The Israeli government will only change when the Jews demand it. After this fiasco, I doubt if the present government will be re-elected. Lets hope they elect a compassionate and generous government for a change.

Enough said. Like many other, I have had enough of the 'poor' Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:28 AM

Educatiom seems to be a good point. But what kind of education? Looks like Hezbollah is offering a wealth of courses like "How to kill yourself and others too". Not the thing anyone should fund.

Would Hezbollah & Co. accept the education we or Israel wouild fund? I don`t think so.

Besides the arabic states do have oil and thus money too: they could fund their own people`s education. They don`t. A ready scapegoat like Israel is a good distraction for the arabic oligarchies to avoid modernizing their countries...

What do you think about the "poor" Arabs, dianavan?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 06:42 AM

I mentioned this on another thread. The young Moslem men in question are certainly no different to the other young men who, from the 60's onwards in my experience and probably much earlier, feel dissillusioned and angry.

Where they do seem to differ is that they seem to live in predominantly Moslem and/or Pakistani enclaves or sub-communities. I am sure that if these communities were more integrated these young men would see that the establishment is no harsher in their treatment than it is of other people. They may still become angry young men but at least they will be angry for the right reasons. And perhaps the media will then stop refereing to them by their ethnicity and alienating both communities?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:22 AM

"I'd like to see Israel extend a helping hand to others (its about time)"

Hmmmm, about 20-30 trillion US$ would go a long way to rebuilding Lebanon Infrastructure....and maybe next time (What! No Next Time? Hahahaha!), they may be a little more discriminate in targetting...

"After this fiasco, I doubt if the present government will be re-elected. "

That's pretty much an obvious no-brainer - but only because things didn't go as well or as easily as promised....

"Lets hope they elect a compassionate and generous government for a change. "

Fat Chance...

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 07:39 AM

Unemployment of British Muslim youth is running at 17%...

I find it interesting that with high percentages of unemployment in US cities that not only is the murder rate skyrocketing but that unbeknownst to alot of folks "cause the media won't talk about it but the word "Iraq" is being spray painted on slum buildings all accross the US???

Yeah, dianvan, hit this one right on the head...

The US and UK are breeding terrorists with their anti-human foriegn policies with their "threat 'n wack" mentalities...

And like Dr. Phil asked: "Is it working for you?"

Clearly, it isn't...

What is needed is something close to the Saudi Proposal that the Bush administartion publicly said was "interesting" but never would have considered 'cause it didn't play into Karl Rove's plan to stay ***in power*** in '04... Yeah, nuthin'' better than "shock 'n awe" to get angry-white-man (AWM) to the polls...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Alba
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 09:21 AM

"Yeah, nuthin'' better than "shock 'n awe" to get angry-white-man (AWM) to the polls..."
....and it would seem if that policy worked once then might as well use it again.
Sickening, to put it mildly imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 12:39 PM

"What do you think about the "poor" Arabs, dianavan?"

Ernest - As a result of the Holocaust, I grew up hearing about the 'poor Jews' who needed a nation of their own. I have never heard anyone refer to the 'poor Arabs' but I am now hearing alot of people refer to the 'poor Palestinians'. What do you think of the 'poor Palestinians,' Ernest?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 02:22 PM

dianavan: I pity the innocent victims on both sides, be they palestinian, lebanese or israeli.

And I pity the Palestinians for being used by their leaders as well as by the leaders of the arabic countries. I don`t think they made a wise decision by electing a Hamas government, but this is (to a ceertain extent at least) due to the propaganda they grew up with.

It is a sad thing that they missed so many chances for peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: sapper82
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:58 AM

If the money that has been wasted by the Arabs on trying to destroy Israel had instead been spent on education and improving the infrastructure of the Palastinians they would have the best educated population in the Middle East with the best lifestyle.
Instead it has been spent to keep up the victimhood status that keeps their leaders in power.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign Policy as Terror Catalyst
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:24 AM

To the Jew baiters: http://www.israaid.org.il/default.asp