Learning guitar accompaniment

Subject: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: GUEST,eechlay
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 06:13 AM

I'm looking just to be able to accompany myself decently on the guitar, not really more than that. I already know a few basic chords, and I can fingerpick, but I'm limited to just one or two patterns of strumming and picking. Mainly, I'd like to be able to pick. I'm not sure how to proceed now. What books would people recommend? And what else can I do now? My guitar skills haven't been developing for a while now, they're stuck at this I-can-just-about-play level.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: terrier
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:00 AM

"My guitar skills haven't been developing for a while now, they're stuck at this I-can-just-about-play level".

Hi Guest
I'm sure you will get lots of help from the many Mudcat guitarists but as a general observation, the 'brick wall' syndrome,where you seem to grind to a standstill with your playing, is common and usual to ALL musicians. Whatever book or system you choose to help you with your playing, and there are endless choices, the best tutor is time and experience. There are no shortcuts to good musicianship. Enjoy the learning experience, the eventual satisfaction of being able to play is a fantastic feeling.
Stick at it!!!!!!!!

T

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 12:02 PM

Since you can already finger pick, I assume you want to learn flat pickin'. I think it was Happy Traum who wrote the FLAT PICKER'S GUITAR GUIDE, a good start. You might also get some help at www.homespuntapes.com.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Willie-O
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 12:28 PM

I'd suggest you go find yourself a good teacher. Sounds like you are looking for "intermediate level".

Ask at the best acoustic-oriented music store in your area.

And the other thing you want to do is meet and play with fellow musicians. Look for jam sessions.

Books are a useful resource, but the printed page, like a metronome, does not swing. You need someone to see what you're doing, show you right-hand technique, and stuff like that.

Have fun! And if you tell us where you're located, you'll probably get some specific recommendations.

W-O

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 04:10 PM

I can't understand why this thread hasn't reached the hundreds.
Anyway, here are a few things I find useful:
   
   Remember the other hand is as important as the fretting hand: play ant tabs you can to be able to instantly pla the string you want.

If you can read music or know someone, piano music often gives more
intertesting chords and indeed bass notes against the chords.

The most rewarding thing is to listen really carefully to a cd and work things out. This is hard if you don't give yourself a chance by finding out:
Is it in standard tuning?
Is it capoed?
What instrument type?

    Here you want to look at videos, TV etc and also listen for what strings ring out as open strings.

    The biggest thing, in my opinion, is to love a guitar part so much that you simply have to learn it; this builds technique.
Those who want to play purely as accompaniment, the singing being more important to them tha guitar technique, are unlikely to be able to put in the hours. An example would be "Fire and Rain" - do you want to play it as recorded, or just "well enough", because the tab is readily available for many classics.

   Some simple theory is helpful too. Know the intervals of the major scale and learn diatonic chords. Chord spelling is very useful, also.

    Finally, there are some great players who don't think much about what they are doing, but they are just lucky in having the ears.
One last idea: learn to strum lightly but with decent volume and , when
fingerpicking, use the thumb as the basis for the rest.

    No doubt there will many different views, but remember it's meant to be fun, although the better you get the more fun it is!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Willie-O
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:02 PM

"I can't understand why this thread hasn't reached the hundreds."

Lack of mudslinging. For example, if I was to chastise you for suggesting that anyone learn to play "Fire and Rain", and you then called me a dumb Canuck who is all-thumbs, and I responded in kind, and so on, we might keep it going for a bit.

Failing that, if eechlay reappeared and told us more about what and where he wants to learn, that would help!

Cheers.

W-O

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 07:11 PM

Its the Old Old Story - Elderly lady gets off train at Grand Central Staion , asks Porter "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" - Porter replies "Practice , lady , practice!"
As terrier said , we all hit that wall at some point - When I was learning Clarinet , I couldnt 'get' the register change without squeaking , so I went round to the guy I had bought the stick from - He said " show me " and I hit the register change spot on ! Never had that problem again !
Get together with other players , keep at it , and ENJOY playing .

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: eechlay
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 10:17 PM

That was the night here - I live in India, so a lot of things are harder found here. Like good tutors - there are some, and expensive, but the thing is that they all seem to play one of a couple of styles of music - the rock-type, or classical.
There aren't any "acoustic-oriented" music stores here; there ARE just a couple of western-oriented music stores in the whole of the city ;).

I think it's true about the unlikely to be able to put in the hours - singing IS more important to me, and I'd like to keep the guitar simple so more of my attention is on the singing. This way, the guitar sounds the same on every song, though.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 05:13 AM

Mudslinging - as in Mudslime Slim and the Blue Horizon?

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Betsy
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 08:12 AM

Go to folk clubs , sit at the front and watch how others play and try to copy on your own guitar, when you return home.

Cheers,


Betsy.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 10:41 AM

eechlay - one thing which is worth remembering is that accompaniments do not necessaily need to be clever. What they do need to be is something you can do without preventing you concentrating on the singing. Somtimes a very simple accompaniment allows you to sing things which a complex picking style would get in the way of.
Another thing about practicing is that repeating the same sequence over and over again helps you to do it without actually needing to use your active concentration for it. This can be just as important for the "simple" things which you think you already know. Practice is what allows you to be able to continue playing when unexpected distractions happen (for instance when half way through a song somebody starts to tie your shoe laces to the chair you are sat on - can you keep playing to the end?). If not, your playing can benefit from more practice. It is about making what you play "automatic" so your brain can concentrate on whatever else it needs to do
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Willie-O
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 11:11 AM

Wow, India! Welcome to the Cat, this is a bit more of a challenge.

Since my other suggestions don't work, I hope you have a DVD player, cause instructional videotapes are the next best thing. (Or fancy-ass high-speed Internet video lessons, I wouldn't know where to look). I had a look at the www.homespuntapes.com site and the Tom Rush "10 classics" DVD is the one I'd advise you to invest in. Tom Rush is a master performer since the early 60's who is all about delivering the whole song with clarity and taste, not flash. Great value at $30 US.

Gee, that site has more cool stuff as I look at it. Damn, this may cost me some money. Aside from the Tom Rush, you should just select "Level 2", maybe Level 3, and see what looks good for you there.

W-O

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 11:34 AM

Even within basicly the same patterns and chords on each song you can vary the texture, the mood, just by suiting the volume and positions of the strummed chords (strumming at the hole or farther up the neck) in relation to the words of the song. Sometimes I drop a stroke or two here and there in order to dramatise a line and play louder in between verses. Sometimes I strum only the treble strings or heavier into the bass notes for variation.

One other thought: When you are doing several songs in a row, separate the songs by key and chord patterns. That will keep them from 'all sounding alike'.

Where in India are you? Wow. Mudcat is on just about every continent and now sub-continent too!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: DoctorJug
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 02:52 AM

Mark Hanson: Contemporary Travis picking, vol. 1. Can't recommend it too highly. It teaches alternating-bass fingerpicking clearly and effectively. Your guitar accompaniment will support the song properly and really work.
It also lays the foundation for advanced technique.
A curse upon lazy strummers!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 03:29 PM

What kind of music are you interested in playing? That has some impact on the type of accompaniment that is appropriate--Travis picking doesn't work for everything,--

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Grab
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 04:30 PM

John, probably because this thread already reached past a hundred last month... ;-)

Eechlay, at the top of the "Lyrics and knowledge" page you'll find options for filtering - basically searching for all threads whose titles match your search term. If you filter by "guitar" and set the age to "all", you'll find tons of stuff. Most of those will be threads about buying guitars or about particular brands of guitars, but a lot of them will be technical discussions of guitar playing. In particular you'll find that there's been quite a few threads about starting guitar playing. If searching the entire database gives you too much to look through, try just searching the last year to start with.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 07:05 PM

Do you have some method of recording yourself?

I used to use my old reel to reel tape recorder and sit for maybe 20 minutes and sing and play, then listen to what it sounded like. Over the course of a tape there would be definite improvements.

On the down side, some of my guitar accompaniments are rather too ingrained and I now find it almost impossible to play for a song in a different timing or manner, because I don't actually need to think about what and how I am playing. This has taken 40 years, however, and I don't play alone so rarely that it is hardly important.

You do need to practise, but I am sure that being able to hear the results produces a better sound and performance.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Mudlark
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 02:17 AM

Eechay, I am also a singer who just wants to be able to accompany myself, but not sound boring on the guitar. First thing...choose terrific songs. They need little imbellishment. The advice to change key is good, if you are going to present one song after another. Fiind a key that lets you pick out the melody (or harmony) to what you are singing, at least somewhat, then play in that key, even if you have to capo. Make what you do know on the guitar work to your best benefit.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 04:12 AM

Thanks Graham. I'll check out the data base too.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: DoctorJug
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 06:23 PM

Travis picking and its variants work well for a lot of songs which are too often reduced to dullness by lazy musicians.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Aug 06 - 08:05 PM

Ideally the pattern changes with every chord and maybe some harmonised strings between chords.

The problem with a lot of instruction things is that they have no respect for tradition.

Look how many instruction books have Streets of London in them.

The young man who wrote that song could pick guitar in the key of C like the Reverend Gary Davis, and he could role into an E chord like Big Bill Broonzy.

What I'm saying is that to do it with the same assurance as Ralph McTell, Bert Jansch and James taylor - first of all you have to learn the the three chord folksongs and blues that their style is based on.

My advice would be to look at the very tidy but not wildly complex guitar accompaniments of early Joan Baez.

As I remember Pete Seeger's guitar instruction record was very good at defining and breaking down the patterns, but once you have them - the work really starts because you have to start putting some variety into the accompaniment.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: DoctorJug
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 11:00 AM

Hello again eechlay. Folks have offered good and thoughtful advice, especially the bit about respecting the tradition rather than slavishly following a book.
Maybe it's a little off-beam, but have you considered the octave mandolin? Apart from being a fine tune-maker, it's ideal for simple accompaniment. The strings are, low to high, GDAE, so the pitch range is close to a guitar. The basic chords are easy. The double courses make a lovely sound, which blends well with guitars.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: eechlay
Date: 01 Sep 06 - 11:24 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions all of you -- it'll take me a little while to go into everything properly :). Very helpful..

Subject: RE: Learning guitar accompaniment
From: DoctorJug
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 03:43 AM

Wonder what our friend's done these last few weeks?
Hope it's coming along.