Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,BoZ
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:28 AM

So anyway, When i saw this thread i thought.. "hmm a place to type my condolences and feelings towards a bloke i enjoyed watchin on the telly, with his wife Terri"..

Then i see a buncha stuff bout how it's his own fault he died!, ok so i guess that's fredom of speech. Steve Irwin Is dead and it dont matter to make sense of it! , He was killed by an animal that wasnt s'posed to kill!, But it did!..

In the end we'll all have an end, and we'll never be able to look back at the beginning to make light of anything we ever did, I dont reckon anyone should make anything out of Steve's death but who am i to dictate anothers motives?.

Good onya Stevo!, For being who you were and who so many enjoyed watchin!, And this go's to all you folk's who are doin it for the world, for yourself, and for others.. Bring it on and bring it hard, your works are acknowledged even without a dedicated limelight.

BoZ

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 01:40 PM

Thanks, John. I read Bindi's words on google news, today. I'll bet there wasn't a dry eye, too. what a brave little girl.

Thanks, Ebbie. I didn't see the words, just the audio. Glad you read it.:-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:25 AM

By the way, kat, I *did* read the memorial essay. Moving.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:19 AM

Oz 'Catters the ABC is replaying the service this evening 6.00pm. Worth watching

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:11 AM

Watched the memorial service on TV this morning. It wasn't overly mawkish, but I bet there wasn't a dry eye in the Crocoseum. I thought his dad said the best thing: "Don't grieve for Steve, grieve for the animals - they've lost their best mate."

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 08:15 AM

The meaning of the term 'crocodile tears'.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/104800.html

Meaning

To weep crocodile tears is to put on an insincere show of sorrow.

Origin

The allusion is to the ancient notion that crocodiles weep while devouring their prey. Crocodiles do indeed have lachrymal glands and produce tears to lubricate the eyes as humans do. They don't cry though. Whatever emotion they experience when finding and devouring prey we can be certain it isn't remorse.

There are reports of references in French that date the belief back to 1230, although I've not been able to confirm those.

The myth appeared in print in 'The Voyage and Travail of Sir John Maundeville', circa 1400:

"In that contre ... ben gret plentee of Cokadrilles ... Theise Serpentes slen men, and thei eten hem wepynge."
(In that country - there are many crocodiles - These serpents slay men, and then, weeping, eat them)

All of the very early citations refer directly to the myth of crocodiles weeping. It isn't until the 16th century that we find 'crocodile tears' used with our current meaning. Edmund Grindal, Archbishop of York and of Canterbury was the first to use the phrase with the implication of insincerity, in 1563, (re-published in Strype's 'Life of Grindal', 1711):

"I begin to fear, lest his humility ... be a counterfeit humility, and his tears crocodile tears."

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:19 PM

Oh well, did anyone listen to the recitation of the poem> Whadya think?

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:58 PM

Whatever you say, Shambles. We wouldn't have expected less of you.

Returning to the program now in progress--maybe a possibility is that because rays suddenly have a high profile, their deaths and mutilations are being reported more--but there's not necessarily an increase. Of course we hope that mutilating or killing rays is not SOP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:43 PM

It must be pretty obvious that it is all those 'crying crocs' that are seeking retribution and taking the law into their own hands (or teeth).

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:26 PM

The question obviously is whether there was a spike in ray deaths immediately following Steve's death.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:58 PM

I read it on google news a few days ago, but cannot find it now. It also said fisherman who snare them in their nets, while going after other fish, often cut the tail off. I I remember correctly, they thought that might account for some of the mutilated corpses found recently.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

I heard the same story on the news, Ron and Jeri. Read it in the paper as well. It occurred in Australia and they reported finding a number of large rays that had been killed.

Mick

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:39 PM

I'll look for the article--I think I probably still have it at work--but I didn't realize this would be an issue--so may have tossed the paper.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:10 PM

It's true-no real fan of Steve's would do this. But all of a sudden rays were in the headlines. I think it's quite plausible that some twisted individuals would do this. I wish it weren't so likely.

Nobody will be happier than I will if this proves to be a myth. It really depressed me when I read it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:05 PM

Sorry Ron, I looked, but couldn't find anything. What was the title of the article?

I still can't (Google news search). Anybody who watched Irwin's show and/or believed in his message wouldn't do such a thing. Week after week, he showed animals trying to kill him and called them 'beautiful'. He emphasized that this was their nature. No true fan of his would kill an animal because another of its kind reacted per its nature and accidentally killed him.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

Obviously no one can "prove" it's in twisted "revenge." Maybe it's just since rays have suddenly a higher profile. But it does appear that many rays have been killed in the days just after Steve's death.

Which is obviously the opposite of what he would want.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 02:44 PM

I trust the Washington Post on this one--that's my source. If you have a source refuting it, please state it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 01:02 PM

No, Jim. It doesn't appear to be true.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 12:53 PM

Is it true that some brain-deads have been mutilating sting rays in revenge?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:16 AM

In fact, the opposite has happened--unfortunately. Many rays have been killed since Steve's death--totally the opposite of what he would have wished. And some scrupleless scum of the earth has invented a game whereby you can play his wife killing rays.

On a happier note, I believe there is to be a Steve Irwin marathon--on Animal Planet--from 12 noon to 2 AM this Sunday. Shows and interviews. Definitely sounds worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 07:33 AM

Free with the October edition of BBC Wildlife Magazine was a feature on the (undoubted) wildlife delights of a visit to The Cayman Islands.

This was a swish glossy pull-out that I suspect would have been in preparation long before the sad death of Steve Irwin.

The cover photo is of about 20 sting rays taken in the North Sound at a shallow sand-bank they are calling Stingray City. The headline caption is SINGRAY CITY Get Closer Than Ever Before.

Perhaps as a result of the manner of Steve Irwin's death - vistors to the Cayman Islands and elswhere, will not be so keen to take up this invitation and be content to view the sting rays (and other wildlife) from a respectful distance?

If so that will be a good thing.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:38 PM

There is a GRAND tribute poem at Australia Zoo written and read by Rupert McCall, Radio4BC Brisbane. Just click on the picture of Steve to hear it. Well worth listening to. "All the crocs are crying..."

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:27 PM

The Steve Irwin game.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 12:15 AM

I turned on a little of the programing of his programs today--if he were hosting a fishing program with the kind of behavior tips he was offering fishermen would be all over themselves to listen. This guy knew crocs like Cesar Millan knows dogs. It's all in loving your subject and watching it carefully for a long time.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 09:58 PM

It turns out he's a hero for people as well as animals--did you see the show which deals with his rescue of an American diver who at that point was waiting to die? It happened while Steve was doing a documentary of whales and sea lions, I believe-- off Baja California.

And from the footage and the explanations by both Steve and his wife, it appears his son Bob was in no danger at the time of that over-hyped incident--he did not in fact dangle him over a crocodile.

The media had a field day with that one--a classic tempest in a teapot.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM

I've been watching them too - brillant!

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 11:33 PM

Animal Planet has been running a marathon of his shows all weekend. I watched a fascinating one on penguins of Antarctica...he really knew his stuff and I LOVE his enthusiasm. If we'd had "educational" films like his when I was in school, we wouldn't have fallen asleep so often to the drone of uninspired narrators!

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,David McWilliams
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 09:31 PM

Not just Aussie heroes. England's Eckholt Cunningly met an untimely end this week as well.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 09:25 PM

A bad week for Aussie heroes. Peter Brock, too.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 05:01 PM

From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Posted on Sat, Sep. 09, 2006

Critics are cranky, but, crikey, he led a good life

By Jim Reeves, Star-Telegram Staff Writer

The word slipped out of my mouth before I knew it was even on the tip of my tongue, blurted out at the sight of a huge load of giant round hay bales rolling down the road in front of me the other day.

"Crikey!"

If you're a horseman or cattleman, you understand. Thanks to the drought, that hay looked like gold bullion to me. Don't know that I'd ever said that word out loud before and it came out of nowhere, but it seemed to fit the moment and the mood.

I guess that was for you, Steve Irwin. May you rest in peace, surrounded forever by all your animal friends that preceded you to that Great Nature Preserve in the Sky.

You would have had to spend the last week in a cave not to know that Irwin, aka the "Crocodile Hunter," died of a stingray barb to the heart earlier this week. And you'd have to be an idiot not to understand that the animal kingdom lost one of its most stalwart knights when Irwin died.

There are some, however, who just didn't get it and still don't.

They saw Irwin's simple, Crocodile Dundee television persona, or watched him jump on a crocodile's back or grab a giant python by the tail and wrote him off as an attention-seeking goofball with a death wish. Maybe he was, in a way. But he was much more than that, too. He loved animals -- and life -- with a passion he never bothered to conceal. And he wanted to share his joy with the world.

"Besides putting himself recklessly in the path of creatures' natural instincts, hyperventilating 'Crikey' every so often, and mesmerizing awe-stricken kids crouched in front of TV sets -- what exactly did Irwin, lauded as a conservationist, do?" Chicago Sun-Times columnist Rick Telander, someone I sincerely respect, asked in print a couple of days ago.

Beyond making people aware of the natural world, Telander wrote, did Irwin really prompt them to "make the leap from voyeurism to animal conservation?"

"The simple fact is," he wrote, "Irwin's show was an inevitable melding of Jackass meets Wild Kingdom for the short-attention-span set."

As Irwin liked to say of testy crocs, "My, he's cranky, ain't he?"

Telander went on to write that he dislikes circus animal acts (me, too) and zoos (I'm lukewarm there) and will never swim in the Gulf of Mexico again after a painful childhood episode with a jellyfish.

But what Rick and a few others clearly are underestimating is the worldwide impact Irwin had on spreading the message of animal conservation. His The Crocodile Hunter documentaries on Discovery Communications' Animal Planet reportedly attracted a global audience of 200 million, some 10 times the population of Australia.

According to Reuters, news of his death clogged Web sites around the world and, at one point, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Web site had to shut down Monday. He was such an icon in Australia, he was among those selected to greet President Bush when he visited there a couple of years ago. Naturally, Irwin showed up wearing his trademark khaki shirt, shorts and jungle boots.

He was almost as popular in this country, which is why ESPN selected him to film that hilarious promo in which he wrestles the Florida Gators' mascot and appeals to one of the SportsCenter personalities to "give us a hand here."

Sure, he was a wild man on TV. That's why we watched, and he knew it. If he'd tiptoed up behind a bush and pointed the camera at a 15-foot crocodile from 20 yards away, would we have kept tuning in? He knew he was putting his life at risk, but he lived for the thrill, adored the outdoors and loved spreading his message about saving the animals.

"I consider myself a wildlife warrior," he said in a 2003 interview with Australia's The Age. "My mission is to save the world's most endangered species." And he put his money where his mouth was. He bought large tracts of land in his homeland of Australia and other countries and turned them into animal parks. He told his viewers that they, too, could make a difference.

"He was knowledgeable and seemed to care passionately about wildlife," Dr. Leo Smith, an expert on venomous fishes at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan, told The New York Times. "He took a very outgoing approach that made people less fearful of sharks and other mean things out there."

Irwin hated that wild animals were being killed simply for their hides, their ivory or their fur. "Since when has killing a wild animal, eating it or wearing it, ever saved a species?" he asked in an article in an August issue of The Australian Women's Weekly. "There are people who butt out their cigarettes in gorilla-paw ashtrays, with wastepaper baskets that were once elephant feet, who have ivory ornaments...who wear cheetah fur. Don't buy these things! Then there'll be no market and the animals won't be killed....Why must we kill wild animals to satisfy the macabre taste of some rich person?"

It's a good question, folks. And it takes people like Steve Irwin to get our attention with it. What did he do? He loved wild animals -- sometimes the wilder the better -- and he shared that love with the world. He did it in a way that kept us gasping, laughing and coming back for more.

He even understood that his boyish exuberance might kill him right there in front of the cameras, just as it happened. "My number one rule is to keep that camera rolling," he once said. "Even if it's shaky or slightly out of focus, I don't give a rip. Even if a big old alligator is chewing me up I want to go down and go, 'Crikey!' just before I die. That would be the ultimate for me."

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if, as he pulled that stingray barb out of his heart, he didn't look at the camera and say exactly that.

"Crikey!"

He was a showman, and a wildlife warrior, to the very end.

IN THE KNOW

In Irwin's memory

All donations and contributions in Steve Irwin's memory should be made to the Wildlife Warriors Fund at www.wildlifewarriors.org.au, according to Irwin's official Web site. His Web site ( www.crocodilehunter.com), also says, "All donations will be...applied directly to saving animals in the wild."

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: gnu
Date: 09 Sep 06 - 01:13 PM

Nothing wrong with jokes. Steve would probably have had a great laugh over them... hopefully, he is.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,pete
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 06:34 PM

I'm a big fan of steve irwin and I love his programs and respect his work. However, someone showed me this joke the other day and you have to admit its pretty good, and no worse than some of the other comments up there ^^.

Steve Irwin was doing an interview when he was asked what is your favourite TV program. He replied "Thunderbirds is good but I've always had a place in my heart for Stingray".

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 04:55 PM

whatever, he's now in a better place..
steve in heaven

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,Simon
Date: 08 Sep 06 - 02:28 PM

I uderstand just before his death he was singing a beach boys song
barb barb barb barb barb a ray

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 11:08 PM

Mudcat is a site you can always come to when you want to engage in meaningful debate and have critical analysis focused on your arguments. The members are masters of semantics and use the term "fuckwit" sparingly, as true philosophers should.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 10:37 PM

Sometimes it's no more than a tween-ager exercising the right to be beastly. Don't draw political meaning from insensitivity and plain old cussedness.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Se
From: RichM
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:47 PM

Always it has to get political... from folks with anger hatred or envy in their minds.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:46 PM

no there does happen to be a sort of attempt at civilised behaviour on this site. when the yahoos break in occasionally - you suddenly get a glimpse of the sterile wasteland humanity has turned the rest of the web into.

Like WH Auden said

the glacier knocks in the cupboard
the desert sighs in the bed
and the crack in the teacup opens
the lane to the land of the dead

we have no reason to be ashamed of preferring humour, argument and discussion to abuse, rudeness and mindless crudity.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 08:31 PM

This is why moderates don't like "liberals." Liberals are such control freaks. You folks act all tolerant, then someone strays away from groupthink and it's baaaa baaaa baaaaad boy. Damn those outsiders! They're getting in here! Baaaad outsiders! Shut it down! Shut it down!

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM

It looks like a lot of outsiders are visiting Mudcat and are posting just because they can. It doesn't help that our home-grown wackos have tilted the trajectory of this thread so far into La La land.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM

I wondered why and how it was we were getting so many nutcases dropping by until I typed "Steve Irwin obit" into Google and found us in the top 20...about 17 or 18.

That's pathetic

Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM

Guest ???, It's hard for someone to get fresh air with their head planted so firmly up their arse...

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,???
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

"You folks had me convinced he'd done his deeds for the good of the crack whores, and now I have my doubts again. "

Your opinion does not matter. You are a troll, a bible thumper at that.

"If you folks were REALLY into nature and all that, you'd be concerned about genetic engineering and cross-species gene splicing. Did Irwin ever address that?"

Yes he did.

Get a life, or at least get some fresh air.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST,MARISA
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

R.I.P TO STEVE IRWIN HE WAS A GOOD MAN AND IT CAME TO A SURPRIZE HES DEAD HE WAS LIKE A HERO TO ANIMALS IT NOT GOING TO BE THE SAME WITH OUT HIM AND TO PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVEING THESE MESSAGE SHOW SOME REPECT TO HIS WIFE AND KIDS R.I.P STEVE IRWIN YOU WILL BE MISSED AND ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 02:11 PM

So Irwin was into real estate. Figures. Bet he got some good deals, what with fronting for the land-grabbing machinery worldwide. And all he ends up with is a hole in the chest and a hole in the ground. Makes you wonder if selling out your species is worth it.

If you folks were REALLY into nature and all that, you'd be concerned about genetic engineering and cross-species gene splicing. Did Irwin ever address that? His snow leopard in the swamps of Florida (or whatever that misinformation was) was the last bit of fluff I watched him in, and that was years ago. Did he ever talk about the spider-goat farm in upstate New York and the cockroach genes in tomatoes? If not, then he was a phony and didn't give a damn about nature. I kind of doubt he did shows on those topics, because then his govt backers wouldn't air the things and he would've ended up perforated much sooner.

Genetic change has always been slow. Glacial. But now they put insect genes in your vegetables to give them longer shelf-life. So it's not just cross-species contamination which is occurring, it's cross-KINGDOM contamination. Chimeras are being created and released into the environment daily. THAT is the real nature issue at the moment, and if Irwin had you focused on whooping cranes or horny toads, then he may have been beyond merely anti-human. He may have been downright diabolical. You folks had me convinced he'd done his deeds for the good of the crack whores, and now I have my doubts again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:58 PM

Germaine Greer has waded into this discussion with a letter to the editor, but even she isn't as hard on Irwin as some of our dissenters here.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 12:55 PM

That's "Hear, hear!" Suzi. It is short for "Hear what the man is saying, all ye present!"

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 10:21 AM

Tweed, I'll second that!

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:51 AM

Just reading Don's letter about crocodiles in Oz and aligators in America. I read the thread out of interest - never saw the show, as I can remember.

What tolerant people you must be - having these huge things wandering round. people go apeshit if they see a rat within 200 yards of where they live in England. and quite right too.

i never watched this bloke, but he seems to have been on the side of the angels from what you say.

let's just all agree, its sad he's dead. He was a young man with a future, and the future is no more, and that's sad.

Subject: RE: Obit: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin is dead (Sep06)
From: suzi
Date: 07 Sep 06 - 09:46 AM

Here, here...Tweed.