BS: Russians in Afganistan

Subject: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:06 AM

Can someone enlighten me on the following points:
   1. What reason did the Russians give for invading Afganistan?
   2. Was life under the Russians much different for the people
      of Afganistan than life with the Americans in control?

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: mack/misophist
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:49 AM

The details escape me but the ruler the Russians selected for Afghanistan was either voted out or revolted against. At any rate, he was killed. They (the Russians) were there to support the 'legal' government.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:15 AM

Starting in 1979-- Civil war. Russians installed a puppet. 1 million Afghans killed in struggle against the Russians. Moslems particularly prominent in this.

2003--US topples Taliban. Karzai eventually elected. Not a puppet of the US. Probably more popular than the Taliban.

Main problem is that neither Karzai, the US, nor the Taliban are actually popular with most Afghans--who just want to be left alone. But with opium poppies the main cash crop, none of the above are willing to leave them alone--but there's no other comparable source of income for the Afghans.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:24 AM

1978--Communist party of Afghanistan launched a coup. USSR signed Treaty of Friendship with the new government--then cited that as justification for intervening in 1979. Probably real reason was discomfort with chaos on USSR's southern border.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:30 AM

It appears the Taliban at first had no problem with profiting from opium--only under international pressure did they crack down. So if they were to take over again it's unclear what their stance would be on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 12:20 PM

Afghanistan is now the world's largest producer and exporter of heroin (not just growing poppies). " Clandestine labs churn out so much product that the average heroin price in
Western Europe tumbled from $251 in 1990 to $75 a gram" (in January 2006) (adjusted for inflation, according to the UN Office on Drugs and Crime.

Source: Wall St Journal 12 JAN 2006

2005--opium exports were 52% of Afghanistan's GDP. (UNODC estimates)

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 01:00 PM

Nothing is going to change in Afghanistan until the farmers are given an alternative to growing poppies. Thats no easy task. Poppies require little or no fertilizer and even less care. They practically grow wild.

In addition, its a traditional crop with specific processing methods that has been the main livelihood for generations.

In other words, what will the people do for an income if not grow poppies. This is the real challenge. Given an alternative way to feed their families, the warlords would not be so popular. As it is, the warlords are perceived as protecting their way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 05:50 PM

Not only that, opium has been used as currency "They came to the Argu shops and exchanged their opium for wheat, for instance" said shopkeeper Haji Firouz. "Then the heroin makers came to the shops, bought the opium, gave us cash, and we would buy more goods for the shops".

The Karzai government has tried to get farmers to switch to other crops-- but not followed through with their promises of cash, equipment, fertilizer and seeds. The article cites a poppy farmer who now has a wheat crop riddled with diseases. "This year, he plans to grow poppies again".

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 10:40 PM

It's not at all unclear what the Taliban "would" do, if what they are doing is any indication.

They have been very successful in maintaining/expanding their power in southern Afghanistan by allying themselves with the poppy growers and subsequent drug producers. The efforts by first, American-led forces, now (American-led, let's get real) NATO forces operating in southern Afghanistan to stamp out the poppy crop have led to increasing popularity and power for the Taliban who rather opportunistically changed their stance on opium production in order to stage a comeback.   

War On Drugs-style wipe-out-production policies have been a PR disaster for the Western forces, and a gift to the Taliban, and we are just seeing the situation get worse. 32 Canadian soldiers dead so far in Afghanistan, that may seem minor to Americans--understandably--but we aren't used to this shit.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Old Guy
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:15 PM

I am wondering why Drug companies can't buy up all of the Opium for making drugs legally and keep it out of the hands of smugglers.

Subject: RE: BS: Russians in Afganistan
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 12:06 AM

Question is: since the Taliban when they were last in power, did in fact, cut down dramatically on the cultivation of opium poppies---if they took over the government again would they care about world opinion this time?

Do you not believe they cut down on poppy cultivation when they were in power?

They are not in power in Kabul now, so it's obvious they would do what they can to make it difficult for the present government.

At this point, as I said, we don't know the answer to the question--since it's just a hypothetical. And any answer therefore is just speculation. And we hope we don't have to find out the answer.