BS: Peace by UN standards

Subject: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 04:01 PM

MARJAYOUN, Lebanon (AP) — Six weeks after the end of the Lebanon war, the militant Hezbollah group is facing little on-the-ground pressure to give up its weapons and disarm — despite a U.N. cease-fire resolution demanding just that.
The leaders of a U.N. peacekeeping force in south Lebanon say the job is not theirs. And Lebanon's ill-equipped army, some of whose soldiers wear tin-pot helmets and carry outdated M-16 rifles, shows no signs of diving into a confrontation with battle-hardened Hezbollah fighters.

For now, all sides say it's likely full disarmament will happen only in the future as part of a political solution — despite the U.N. resolution that ended the 34-day war on Aug. 14 and required disarmament.

The commanders of the U.N. force say that under the resolution, their job is merely to assist the Lebanese army in regaining control of southern Lebanon and to ensure the area cannot be used for launching rocket attacks into northern Israel.

Meanwhile, Lebanese security officials say the army's mission in the south is based on what they call an "understanding" with Hezbollah that the army will not search for and seize weapons, but only confiscate those shown in public.

At one Lebanese military checkpoint near the town of Marjayoun, some eight miles from the Israeli border, soldiers recently waved most cars through — although some were stopped so identity papers and registration documents could be checked.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-09-27-hezbollah-arms_x.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:32 PM

"Nasrallah: Weapons won't be surrendered
AP - 50 minutes ago
BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah told hundreds of thousands of supporters Friday that his guerrillas will never surrender their weapons — including 20,000 rockets he claims his group has left after its 34-day war with Israel. "No army in the world will be able to make us drop the weapons from our hands," the black-turbaned cleric said defiantly in his first public appearance since the start of the war in July. "


UN Security Council Resolution/1701

...– full implementation of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, and of resolutions 1559 (2004) and 1680 (2006), that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon, so that, pursuant to the Lebanese cabinet decision of 27 July 2006, there will be no weapons or authority in Lebanon other than that of the Lebanese State;




So only Israel has to comply with the UN ceasefire terms, and they do not even get the kidnapped soldiers back ( as promised)- Tell me again why Israel should trust the UN in any life-or-death matter?




Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:44 PM

Oh, yeah- let me see.

Hezbollah starts with 12,000 rockets.

Hezbollah shoots over 4,000 rockets.

Hezbollah now has 20,000 rockets.






UN Security Council Resolution/1701


15. Decides further that all States shall take the necessary measures to prevent, by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft:

(a) The sale or supply to any entity or individual in Lebanon of arms and related materiel of all types, including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, whether or not originating in their territories; and

(b) The provision to any entity or individual in Lebanon of any technical training or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of the items listed in subparagraph (a) above; except that these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorized by the Government of Lebanon or by UNIFIL as authorized in paragraph 11;

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 09:56 AM

No challengers?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:10 PM

Israel wouldn't even exist if it hadn't been for the U.N. Now you bite the hand that fed you.

You try to paint the U.N. as an enemy of Israel as they attempt to maintain peace. If you don't like their rules, maybe you should give back the territory.

Privilege carries the weight of responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:19 PM

Guest,

You miss the ovbvious point. The UN resolution for the cease fire requires actions by both sides, yet does not enforce ANY of the actions required by Hezbollah.


"Privilege carries the weight of responsibility"

True, unless you are Hezbollah.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM

Given the present UN actions, can you think that Israel will agree to ANY cease-fires in future conflicts? Why should they?


So it will be only be battles to the death in the future, since the UN will not enforce it's own resolutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:47 AM

Waiting for someone here (of those who demanded the ceasefire) to tell me why the UN should not bother to enforce the terms upon Hezbollah.......

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:04 AM

talkin' to yerself again, Bruce? Hope ya get the answers you're looking for.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:48 AM

I seem to get no answers at all.

Perhaps those who argued against my viewpoint are not prepared to take responsibility they will deserve for the killings to come in the NEXT Hezbollah attack and Israeli response.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM

Perhaps folks are [finally] rather sensibly tired of trying to teach a pig to sing.

In which case, I applaud them.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:57 AM

Sorry if only those who agree with your viewpoint are supposed to present it. I will try to keep quiet and let YOU tell the world about Darfur, and Bosnia, and Rwanda, and such- since YOU have all the answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:01 PM

Waaaahhhh. WAAAHHHHH! WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

[ sigh ]

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:02 PM

poor baby.

Someone actually disagrees with you...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:05 PM

In US Law, silence implies consent. Those who do not protset the UN failure to enforce the terms of the ceasefire are presumed to approve of that failure.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:11 PM

[ sigh ]

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 12:12 PM

A pity you have no opinion on the UN failures...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 03:44 AM

The UN force is a peacekeeping force. It's peaceful now, they've stopped fighting and more important civilians aren't getting killed. It worked.

You want a small UN peacekeeping force to do what the much better equipped Israeli army couldn't do. Do you see the problem now? Would you prefer the war to re- ignite?

If you want a long term solution, it will involve disarming all factions. That includes all Moslem, Christian, Jewish armies, and all armed groups with a political/ sectarian axe to grind.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 04:02 AM

UN broker ceasefuire based on Hezbollah disarming, and no resupply.

Hezbollah keeps arms and obtains 12000 new rockets






Looks like Israel gets screwed, again. If Hexzbollah does not have to comply with the cease-fire terms, why should we expect them NOT to start shooting whenever they see an advantage in it? The agreement was for them to be disarmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 07:15 AM

Paul,

If the UN does NOT require Hezbollah to disarm, what will they do when Hezbollah starts sending rockets into Israel again? The UN presence there did not stop that before, so why would it now? And if the terms are not enforced, how can ANY future terms be trusted?

YOU seem to be the one who wants the war to resume- albeit with a resupplied Hezbollah and UN troops for them to place launchers near.



"If you want a long term solution, it will involve disarming all factions"

As has been stated before, if Hezbollah was disarmed, there would be peace in Lebanon. If Israel was disarmed, Israel would be destroyed. You imply that is the long-term solution?????? NOT ACCEPTABLE

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:10 PM

"Perhaps those who argued against my viewpoint are not prepared to take responsibility they will deserve for the killings to come in the NEXT Hezbollah attack and Israeli response" beardedbruce

Aren't you giving Mudcatters just a tad too much power? There is such a thing as 'nonplussed', such a thing as knowing there are no easy answers, such a thing as a reluctance as giving the man what he wants: a fight. IMO you are not broaching this subject seeking enlightenment but hoping for a brawl.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 11:36 AM

So, I am accused of being a vicious child-killer because I point out the reasons Israel attacked Lebanon, and that Hezbollah had the responsibility for the civilian deaths caused by Hezbollah launching rockets from civilian areas, but those who expressed the requirement that Israel agree to the ceasefire have NO responsibility to at least pretend that Hezbollah should comply with the terms of that cease-fire?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 10:51 AM

yadda yadda yadda yadda

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 12:04 AM

great contribution, Greg F.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 10:53 AM

Just trying my best to emulate Bruce's 'contributions' - oh great and mighty anonymous one.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 01:32 PM

At the United Nations on Monday, U.S. Ambassador John Bolton accused the two countries of trying to destabilize Lebanon's democratically elected government by violating a U.N. arms embargo.

Bolton stressed that Syria's obligations to respect a U.N. arms embargo authorized in August "are particularly important as it is the one country other than Israel that borders Lebanon."

Syria and Iran are supporters of Hezbollah, having provided weaponry, training and funding to the group. Israel and Hezbollah fought a 34-day war this past summer.

Bolton called on Syrian President Bashar Assad to abide by the commitment he made to Secretary-General Kofi Annan to support the resolution and the arms embargo.

In a speech to the U.N. Security Council, Bolton welcomed the Lebanese government's extension of its authority throughout the south of the country for the first time in almost 40 years and its deployment along the eastern part of the U.N.-drawn boundary with Israel and the border with Syria.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/01/us.lebanon.ap/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:00 PM

"The mock raids came only hours after U.N. envoy Terje Roed-Larsen told the Security Council that the Lebanese government had reported that arms were being smuggled into Lebanon from Syria since the end of the 34-day Israel-Hezbollah war."


"Geir Pederson, personal representative in Lebanon of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, expressed concern about the overflights that "constitute a breach of Lebanese sovereignty" and of the U.N. resolution that ended the war.

But Israel contends the flights must continue because arms are still smuggled to Hezbollah, the group has armed personnel in south Lebanon, and the two soldiers whose capture by guerrillas sparked the Israeli offensive have not been released, said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

"In the absence of the implementation of these obligations, Israel is forced to continue intelligence flights over Lebanon to monitor these infringements. If there's not a mechanism to prevent illicit arms transfers, we have to monitor arms transfers. If the Hezbollah presence is not removed, there is a need to observe that presence," he said.

American and European officials have stepped up their demands for Hezbollah to disarm in accordance to the U.N.-brokered cease-fire, but the militant group has repeatedly refused to lay down its arms. The refusal has caused internal struggles as the Lebanese army tries to take control of the south, which has been under Hezbollah's control for decades.

Neither an increased U.N. peacekeeping mission, which currently numbers about 7,300, nor some 15,000 Lebanese troops patrolling a buffer zone in south Lebanon have the mandate or the political will to take Hezbollah's weapons by force.

Nasrallah said in a three-hour taped TV interview Tuesday night that the guerrilla group now has some 33,000 rockets and warned that any attempts by an international force to disarm it would transform Lebanon into another Iraq or Afghanistan.

"The resistance in Lebanon is strong, cohesive, able and ready, and they will not be able to undermine it no matter what the challenges are," he said during the interview on Hezbollah's TV station Al-Manar."

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:48 PM

Shooting Erupts on Israel-Lebanon Border
By SAM F. GHATTAS
Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Lebanese troops deployed along the border with Israel opened fire late Wednesday as Israeli troops searched for Hezbollah bombs, drawing retaliatory fire, officials from both sides said.
It was the first time that shooting erupted across the border since shortly after an Aug. 14 cease-fire that ended a 34-day war between Israeli forces and the Lebanese Hezbollah militants.

Lebanese troops opened fire on a bulldozer after it crossed the so-called Blue Line - the U.N.-demarcated boundary - and entered about 20 yards into Lebanon, Lebanese officials said.

Israeli troops responded with tanks and light weapons, Israeli security officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

The exchange occurred near the Lebanese village of Maroun el-Rass, which was the scene of heavy fighting in the summer war, in the central sector of the border.

The Lebanese military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity pending the release of a formal statement from the army command, said the Lebanese army fired volleys of machine guns toward the bulldozer.

Israeli forces responded with five anti-tank grenades that targeted an army armored vehicle and a transport jeep, the Lebanese officials said. Lebanese troops did not suffer any injuries. There was no immediate word of any Israeli casualties.

In Jerusalem, the Israeli army said shooting erupted on the Israel-Lebanon border during an Israeli operation to search for bombs planted by Hezbollah guerrillas.

The army said troops operating in Israeli territory along the frontier came under fire, and that the source of the shooting was apparently Lebanese troops nearby. When the attackers refused to quit firing, the Israeli troops opened fire at them, the army said.

The Israeli army said the Israeli force was clearing land and searching for bombs near the spot where Israeli troops discovered four explosive devices planted by Hezbollah on Monday.

The bulldozers crossed the heavily guarded border fence but remained inside Israeli territory, which extends north of the fence in that area, the army said.

The U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon, or UNIFIL , is a 12,000-strong peacekeeping force deployed to assist the Lebanese army patrol southern Lebanon to enforce the cease-fire.

"We're aware of an ongoing incident," said Liam McDowell, a UNIFIL spokesman, but added they don't have further information.

About 15,000 troops deployed to south Lebanon under the U.N. resolution that included the cease-fire which ended the fighting. More than 1,000 people have died in Lebanon and about 150 in Israel in the 34-day war.

___

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:36 PM

I don't see anywhere that the UN considers this incident part of "peace", BB. You are being a bit sardonic, no?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:38 PM

"The bulldozers crossed the heavily guarded border fence but remained inside Israeli territory, which extends north of the fence in that area, the army said."

Its a fine line. Lets hope its not a slippery slope.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:43 PM

From the Reuters report on this incident (which happened yesterday):

A Reuters correspondent at the scene and Israeli security sources said the clash began after the Lebanese troops shot in the air as the patrol crossed a security fence near the border village of Avivim to search for explosives planted by Hezbollah.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM

"In Jerusalem, the Israeli army said shooting erupted on the Israel-Lebanon border during an Israeli operation to search for bombs planted by Hezbollah guerrillas.

The army said troops operating in Israeli territory along the frontier came under fire, and that the source of the shooting was apparently Lebanese troops nearby. When the attackers refused to quit firing, the Israeli troops opened fire at them, the army said.

The Israeli army said the Israeli force was clearing land and searching for bombs near the spot where Israeli troops discovered four explosive devices planted by Hezbollah on Monday. "


It seems that none of you bothered to READ the terms of the ceasefire-
DISARMAMENT OF HEZBOLLAH
ALL NATIONS to stop resupply of Hezbollah


I guess the UN doesn't feel it important to hold the Lebanese to the terms they agreed upon...


And Amos, Yes, I was- that ceasefire will cost more deaths in the long run than if the war had continued for another six months.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:51 PM

In one month 1,200 people were killed in the 2006 war, mostly civilians. At that rate another six months would have meant over 7,000 additional dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

I agree- and the death toll from NOT disarming Hezbollah will exceed that, IMO.

Chamberlain saved many lives by giving Hitler "Peace in our time."


Just don't bother thinking about the 27 milllion killed because of WWII.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: jeffp
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM

Define "long run." How long?

How many were killed in this latest incident?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:41 PM

"BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Beirut emerged Friday from an overnight curfew imposed after deadly clashes erupted between pro-government and opposition supporters at Beirut Arab University.

No violence was reported early Friday.

All vehicles and people had been banned from Beirut's streets from 8:30 p.m. Thursday until 6 a.m. local time Friday. ( Watch the smashing of car windows amid street clashes )

Thursday's fighting came two days after a Hezbollah-led general strike to topple the government. It was unclear what sparked the violence, which was generally contained on the university campus.

But fighting in Beirut also raged elsewhere Thursday.

Cars were set afire, and plumes of black smoke hung in the air. At one point, some protesters launched a fire bomb toward Lebanese soldiers, but mostly they threw rocks at each other.

Earlier Thursday, video footage from the scene showed young men smashing car windows with wooden batons and others throwing stones as soldiers watched from sidewalks.

Four people were killed and 152 were wounded, according to Lebanese security sources. (Full story)

Video showed what Lebanese news media said were the Syrian national party offices on fire.

Machine gun fire near campus
The clashes began around 3:30 p.m. (8:30 a.m. ET) between students backing Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's pro-Western government and another group that supports the opposition Hezbollah.

Siniora denounced the violence Thursday from a donors' conference in Paris where the international community pledged $7.6 billion Thursday in aid to Lebanon's embattled government for reconstruction after the war between Israel and Hezbollah last summer. (Full story)

"For all those who took to the streets today to express their opinion in some way or another ... I would appeal to all Lebanese to stay away from any hot spots and renounce the temptation to fan the flames of tension and conflict," Siniora said.

He said the unrest serves the interests of Lebanon's enemies and urged the demonstrators to disband.

Shortly after the fighting erupted, CNN's Nic Robertson saw young men carrying baseball bats on street corners in a Hezbollah-dominated neighborhood near the university, which is in southern Beirut several miles from the airport. (Full story)

Machine gun fire could be heard coming from the university area, but it was unclear who was firing the weapons.

Lebanese soldiers immediately closed the streets leading to the university and armored personnel carriers were seen patrolling the streets.

After sunset, Lebanese soldiers stationed near the university gate fired their weapons into the air in an attempt to keep the two rival groups away from each other, Robertson reported. (Watch soldiers dodge hail of rocks )

His reports were interrupted numerous times by the sounds of the soldiers' gunfire.

From time to time, the soldiers would open the university's gates, fire into the air, then lower their weapons and gesture for the protesters to disband.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, speaking on his party's Al Manar TV, urged against the demonstrations and called for an end to the violence.

Earlier in the day, pro-Syrian Lebanese President Emile Lahoud and parliament speaker Nabih Berri, leader of the Shia Amal Party, also called for calm in the capital.

Robertson reported a "tense calm" around 6 p.m. (11 a.m. ET), but said he could hear gunfire emanating from another part of the university's campus."

..........................


But I guess civilian casualties don't matter unless you can blame them on Israel.

Check back ovet the last three months, and see the casualty count in Lebanon, since the Hezbollah was "disarmed" by the ceasefire...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:58 PM

Apart from one incident on August 19th involving a raid into Lebanon, where two Israeli soldiers were killed, there appear to have been no Israeli deaths attributable to Hezbollah since the ceasefire on August 14th.

It's not been a perfect peace, and there have been a fair number of incidents of breaches, but it's still holding.

It is true enough that internal problems inside Lebanon have increased since the war, and the consequences of the war have ben a major factor in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:04 PM

The consequences of NOT having disarmed Hezbollah, you mean.


And where are the two Israeli soldiers who were kidnapped and SUPPOSED to be returned as a part of the cease-fire?

And you seem to think it OK for Hezballah to be placing mines ON THE ISRAELI SIDE of the border....

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:06 PM

"Syrian national party offices on fire"

and

"Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, speaking on his party's Al Manar TV, urged against the demonstrations and called for an end to the violence."

"Earlier in the day, pro-Syrian Lebanese President Emile Lahoud and parliament speaker Nabih Berri, leader of the Shia Amal Party, also called for calm in the capital."

I don't see how you can blame this on Hezbollah or the U.N.

Who do you think might want to stir up trouble in Lebanon?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:09 PM

"Thursday's fighting came two days after a Hezbollah-led general strike to topple the government. "

"Shortly after the fighting erupted, CNN's Nic Robertson saw young men carrying baseball bats on street corners in a Hezbollah-dominated neighborhood near the university, which is in southern Beirut several miles from the airport. (Full story)"



It is very easy to select only the quotes that support what you want to believe....

THAT is why I posted the WHOLE article.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:19 PM

"Hezbollah And Its Rivals Fight in Streets Of Lebanon
By NADA BAKRI AND HASSAN M. FATTAH; NADA BAKRI REPORTED FROM BEIRUT, AND HASSAN M. FATTAH FROM DUBAI, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES. (NYT); Foreign Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 6, Column 1, 822 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Thousands of supporters of Iranian-backed Hezbollah clash with Lebanese government supporters in Beirut, raising fears that political crisis might lead to sectarian conflict; police say at least three people are killed and 100 wounded throughout country in violence, worst since Hezbollah began demanding more political power in late 2006"

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:25 PM

How is Israel involved in this?

...or what do you think Israel should do about this?

Why do you think the U.N. has any responsibility other than to keep Peace on the border between Israel and Lebanon?

Seems to me this is an internal Lebanese struggle that has nothing to do with Israel - unless, of course, Israel chooses to become involved, at which point the U.N. will step in.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM

"Why do you think the U.N. has any responsibility other than to keep Peace on the border between Israel and Lebanon?"



It is a UN responsibility, and Israel has the right to expect the terms of the ceasefire to be observed.


"Seems to me this is an internal Lebanese struggle that has nothing to do with Israel - unless, of course, Israel chooses to become involved, at which point the U.N. will step in. "


UN Security Council Resolution/1701

...– full implementation of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, and of resolutions 1559 (2004) and 1680 (2006), that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon, so that, pursuant to the Lebanese cabinet decision of 27 July 2006, there will be no weapons or authority in Lebanon other than that of the Lebanese State;




So only Israel has to comply with the UN ceasefire terms, and they do not even get the kidnapped soldiers back ( as promised)- Tell me again why Israel should trust the UN in any life-or-death matter?




Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 12:44 PM

Oh, yeah- let me see.

Hezbollah starts with 12,000 rockets.

Hezbollah shoots over 4,000 rockets.

Hezbollah now has 20,000 rockets.






UN Security Council Resolution/1701


15. Decides further that all States shall take the necessary measures to prevent, by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft:

(a) The sale or supply to any entity or individual in Lebanon of arms and related materiel of all types, including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, whether or not originating in their territories; and

(b) The provision to any entity or individual in Lebanon of any technical training or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of the items listed in subparagraph (a) above; except that these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorized by the Government of Lebanon or by UNIFIL as authorized in paragraph 11;

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:37 PM

"unless, of course, Israel chooses to become involved, at which point the U.N. will step in. "


Obviously, you choose to ignore the fact that HEZBOLLAH has planted expolsives on Israeli territry, the same trespassing ( you claimed) gave Hedzbollah the right to attack Israel when Israel was accused of actually entering Lebanon.

So which is it? Was Israel guilty of vioalting another nation's sovereignty, while Hezbollah is not for the same ( accused ) offense?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:20 PM

HEZBOLLAH has planted expolsives on Israeli territry

Even from the Israeli account the explosive devices appear to have been in No Mans Land, on territory outside Israeli border security fences. Territory claimed, I understand, in theory at any rate, by both countries.

Knowing whom to believe and what to believe in all this is not straightforward. There's a disputed border, and people on both sides who don't trust each other, with good reason. The best thing is to accept that the various parties involved can be expected to spin the truth to suit themselves.

One thing is for certain in all tghis - a hell of a lot more civilians, mostly Lebanese, but also Israeli, were killed in the course of a few weeks in that nasty little war last year, far more than have been killed in all the years since Israel pulled out of its occupation of Southern Lebanon. And the killings were only part of it, and in some ways the lesser part of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:38 PM

bb - Let the U.N. keep the peace between Lebanon and Israel. Lebanon has the authority to keep the peace within its sovereign State. They have to deal with Hezbollah. Israel has nothing to do with it.

So far, the U.N. is doing a good job keeping Lebanon and Israel apart at the border. Give credit where credit is due instead of continually whining about poor Israel. You do the Israelis more harm than good.

All in all, the U.N. is better at peacekeeping than Israel. "No casualties incurred in the shootout, which lasted only a few minutes and ended with an Israeli withdrawal." (see link below)

You continually distort the truth and spread rumours. This article is far more reliable than you are.

http://www.cjp.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=208136

I'm sick of your warmongering while the people who actually live there have to deal with the reality. Both the Lebanese and the U.N. have increased their forces at the border. What do you want them to do, surrender their land to Israel?

So sorry about the past, bb, but thats no excuse for spreading bitterness, hatred and fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM

from your post...


"Liam McDowell, a spokesman for the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon, or UNIFIL, said the exchange was "initiated by the Lebanese army" and that the Israeli bulldozer had crossed the "technical fence" to clear mines.

Crossing the technical fence would not violate the border, but crossing the Blue Line would. "

"Israel said its troops went through the fence to search for explosives allegedly planted by Hezbollah on Monday, but that Israeli forces remained south of the international border and within Israeli territory - which stretches beyond the fence.

Hezbollah has denied the planting the explosives, saying they were laid before the war. "

"On Thursday morning, Israeli planes flew twice over southern Lebanon.

The Israeli military confirmed the overflights, saying: "The incident yesterday hasn't led us to change our aerial activity."

Israel insists it has to monitor southern Lebanon to check that Hezbollah is not being re-armed in violation of the U.N. cease-fire resolution of August. "


So what part of the ceasefire do you claim that the UN is enforcing?

YOU state:"I'm sick of your warmongering while the people who actually live there have to deal with the reality. Both the Lebanese and the U.N. have increased their forces at the border. What do you want them to do, surrender their land to Israel? "

I would have the UN actually enforce the ceasefire, instead of just prevent Israeli- AND ONLY ISRAELI - actions. ALL of the ceasefire, NOT just the part that one side wants to have enforced.

You have a problem with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM

"You continually distort the truth and spread rumours. This article is far more reliable than you are. "


Care to give even one example of your accusation? I have presented quotes from articles and stated my opinion-

ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT I AM NOT ENTITLED TO MY OPINION?

Yes, I meant to yell. YOUR statement is both false and malicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:28 PM

Hezbollah 22 Sept:BEIRUT, Lebanon - Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah told hundreds of thousands of supporters Friday that his guerrillas will never surrender their weapons — including 20,000 rockets he claims his group has left after its 34-day war with Israel. "No army in the world will be able to make us drop the weapons from our hands," the black-turbaned cleric said defiantly in his first public appearance since the start of the war in July. "

Hezbollah 2 November: "Nasrallah said in a three-hour taped TV interview Tuesday night that the guerrilla group now has some 33,000 rockets and warned that any attempts by an international force to disarm it would transform Lebanon into another Iraq or Afghanistan."




Now tell me again how the UN is enforcing the ceasefire terms.


And where are the two kidnapped Israeli soldiers????

Subject: RE: BS: Peace by UN standards
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

In case you have a problem with memory:

UN Security Council Resolution/1701


15. Decides further that all States shall take the necessary measures to prevent, by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft:

(a) The sale or supply to any entity or individual in Lebanon of arms and related materiel of all types, including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, whether or not originating in their territories; and

(b) The provision to any entity or individual in Lebanon of any technical training or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of the items listed in subparagraph (a) above; except that these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorized by the Government of Lebanon or by UNIFIL as authorized in paragraph 11;