BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 05:41 PM

Here's an excerpt of an article about a play about post-holocaust Germany and Jewish people:

Israel Horovitz's Elbow Room
The award-winning playwright revives 1996 play and launches a new theater company.
Ted Merwin - Special To The Jewish Week (12/15/2006)

"Could Germany possibly do anything to redress the genocide perpetrated on the Jews during the Holocaust? In Israel Horovitz's award-winning 1996 play, "Lebensraum," now being revived in New York, the German chancellor makes a sudden, stunning announcement: Six million Jews from all over the world are invited to resettle in Germany.

The resulting violent controversy proves that German guilt is not so easily alleviated, nor can Jews easily resume their role in German society. Just three actors — T. Ryder Smith, Suli Holum and Ryan Young — perform all 80 characters in the piece, which include an unemployed dock worker from Massachusetts, a German minister and a couple of Israeli undercover agents who consider themselves to be the "policemen of the world's Jews." Anita Gates of the New York Times called the play "powerful and touching" when it first ran in New York.

"Lebensraum" directed by Jonathan Rest, is a kind of counter-factual play, on the lines of Philip Roth's novel "The Plot Against America." The comic drama takes its name from Hitler's insistence that the Germans needed "elbow room," and thus were entitled to expand the German homeland into Russia and other countries. Rest, who worked as a physician in Berkeley before deciding to make a career for himself in the theater, told The Jewish Week that the play "juxtaposes hilarious and horrific images," in order to get audiences thinking about the insidious virus of anti-Semitism...

Interviewed by telephone, Horovitz said that the idea for "Lebensraum" came during a trip to Germany, a country that he had long resisted visiting. When a Bonn production of his play "Park Your Car in Harvard Yard" cut a line in which a character talks about being a Yankee Jew, he asked the leading actress why. "It doesn't smell good to have Jews on stage in Germany," she told him matter-of-factly. Horovitz immediately decided that he needed to write about attitudes toward Jews in post-Holocaust Germany..."

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13405

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 05:29 PM

Thanks again.

Tom

I'll do just that

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 05:24 PM

Glad to be of service!

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 05:10 PM

thanks I'll do that, Guest meself,

however before I go the Guest16 Dec 06 - 04:57 PM

i won't get off this site, I'll get off this thread but not this site.

because as you see unlike you I'm a member and I'm not afraid to tell people how I feel or even give my nanme unlike you.

But thanks guest meself.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 05:02 PM

Tom - I know how easy it is to get wrapped up and wound up in some of these threads. Sometimes the best thing to do is to step away from it altogether for awhile, to go do something in the real world. It takes your mind off Mudcat. Then you wonder why you ever cared what someone here said to you. So what I would suggest is that if things people are saying on here are really annoying you, just stay away from it for a few days, do other things; then come back fresh.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:57 PM

Tom do yourself a lot of good and get off this Site.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:52 PM

at last some can understand the way I feel

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:50 PM

Thanks GUEST Meself

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:45 PM

People - let's not antagonize the man, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:38 PM

Why should I bother, this is take the piss out of me is it?

aye go on have your wee jokes at my expence.

make me look a fool.

I was just puting my view across that's all

I remember this happened to me once before when certain mudcatters took the piss out of me and I didn't like it.

So Joe offer please could close this tread because certain mudcatters are taking the piss out of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:30 PM

Tom Hamilton are you really leaving us, what a pity, think of all those poor unemployed ladies in Germany you could be helping, go fourth Tom.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 04:09 PM

Good-bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 03:39 PM

OK

I'll keep posting on Mudcat however not on this thread

So Goodbye

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 01:19 PM

As you will not be posting to the thread or taking any more part in Mudcat Tom, there is probably no need for me to make this post. However, I was interested to read in your very long description of prostitution in Germany that Cologne's eleven storey "Eros Center", which I saw clearly from the train on the last occasion I came in that way from Neuss a few weeks ago, has now been transported three or four kilometres to Geestemünderstraße... In fact, that particular famous Cologne landmark is now known as "Pascha", although many Kölner refer to it by its former name. No comment on your arguments Tom. I just wanted to point out the perils of quoting wholesale from other websites.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM

Do we take it that that last was Tom Hamilton's last message? Provisionally...

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 08:54 AM

In Germany, where prostitution is legal, women who have lost their jobs must be willing to accept jobs as prostitutes or lose their unemployment benefits. Brothel owners have access to official data bases of those who have registered for unemployment benefits. The welfare laws of Germany require women under 55 who have been out of work for more than one year to take an available job, including those in the sex industry, or they will lose their benefits. The German government had considered making brothels an exception but ruled this out. (34)

34. Ibid.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 08:52 AM

Volume XXV          Issue IX            September 2006
Last Trumpet Ministries, PO Box 806, Beaver Dam, WI 53916
Fax: [phone] Internet: http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org

A Global Population Under Antichrist Misguidance!

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

II John 7-11
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

I John 2:18
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

II Thessalonians 2:3
In this issue of the Last Trumpet Newsletter, we will examine a spiritual condition that has swept across our world and around our globe in these last of the last days before the return of our gracious Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a sad fact that the entire world is currently under the misguidance of a strange and clandestine spirit that true and discerning Christians understand is the spirit of antichrist. This is especially true of the United States of America, where many people still blindly trust their leaders of church and state while these leaders are methodically bringing them to the very gates of death and hell.

The new world order has risen up almost unnoticed by the vast majority of the American people, and while words such as liberty and freedom remain in the vocabulary of citizens, these words have become shadows of the past in the reality of a new and different United States, which has been reduced to nothing more than a co-dependent unit of a new globalism concept and one-world government.

We have all seen, and have been seeing, the vast changes that have been taking place in our country. The discerning people have watched with shock and awe as government, religion, and society in general have been twisted and contorted into grotesque products of illuministic and antichrist design. This has happened for one basic reason, and that is because people did not care while it was happening. As the prophet Isaiah said in Isaiah 57:1, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart…." People have blindly trusted their leaders in government while they led them to a global interdependence and have destroyed the sovereignty of America. People blindly trusted their religious leaders as they transformed churches, places where spiritual battles are supposed to be fought, into societies of entertainment, foolishness, and compromise. People blindly trusted their medical doctors while they injected them with mercury, aluminum, and many other toxins in vaccines, which produced epidemics of autism, Alzheimer's disease, cancer, and numerous other deadly diseases.

Most people stood idly by and did nothing while seventy million babies were brutally butchered in the wombs of their mothers at the behest of the United States Supreme Court. This is the equivalent of 23% of our current United States population. That gaping hole that was left by our nation's program of mass murder is being filled by illegal aliens who have been brought in to be a managed herd of obedient workers in the new order. These people will be far more willing as stooges than those who were born in America and still remember how America used to be. These illegal aliens will also be victimized by the antichrist system in their new land as they breath the contaminated air from chem-trails, drink water laced with chlorine and fluoride, receive immunizations, and so on. They will find out also that the United States of America, the land of my birth and the land that I love, has become a killing floor of antichrist spirits and their human administrators.

When I consider this, I am reminded of the rock music group called The Guess Who, and their song from the late 1960's entitled "No Time." The entire song was written in witchcraft jargon, and the third verse, which would seem out of place to those who do not discern witchcraft jargon, consists of the following words: "No time for a gentle rain, no time for my watch and chain, no time for revolving doors, no time for the killing floor, no time for the killing floor; there's no time left for you, no time left for you."

If you are reading this and find it distressing, I thank God for it. There is hope for you! It is time for everyone to repent and seek the Saviour. He will forgive you and sustain you during these trying times. Most importantly, He will save your soul. Seek the Lord Jesus with all your heart! Do it now while there is still a little time!

The Crescendo of War!

Wars and rumors of war are constant at this time, which is another sign of the end of this present world. The wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan continue, and the war between the Israeli State and Islamic Hezbollah in Lebanon has been bitter and devastating! I pointed out in the August 2006 newsletter that the Moslems were outraged because the Israeli High Court approved the Gay Pride parade through the streets of Jerusalem. The parade was to retrace the steps where Jesus walked and culminate in a rally at the Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock Mosque. Not all of those in the Israeli government approved, but the majority did approve of the sodomite march, which would bring the spirits of Sodom into Jerusalem. Regarding this planned desecration, Moslem leader Sheik Ibrahim Sarsur said, "If they dare to approach the Temple Mount during the World Pride 2006 parade in Jerusalem – they will do so over our dead bodies." (1) Interestingly, Revelation 11:8 says, "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." Thus, Jerusalem would have the spirits of the accursed city of Sodom in it as an abomination of desolation. We must note that because of the fierceness of the war, the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem was cancelled.

The occult timing of the recent war between the Israelis and Hezbollah is amazing. The hostilities began on July 12th, 2006, immediately following a full moon. July 12th, 2006, was also exactly thirty-six days after the day of 06/06/06, and the number thirty-six is the square of six. If all the numbers from one through thirty-six are added together, the total is 666, which is the number of the Beast! Thirteen days after the war began, representatives from various nations gathered in Rome, of all places, to discuss the war. (2) Rome is universally known as the city of seven hills, which correspond to the seven heads of the Beast. Revelation 17:9 clearly states, "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." The seven hills of Rome are: Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, and Caelian.

This war between the Israelis and Hezbollah is a religious war, and the word "Hezbollah" means "work of God." We must remember that before World War II started, there was a war in Spain under Generalissimo Francisco Franco, who was armed by Hitler. This war was used to test the German weapons even as the Third Reich was planning to launch World War II. We now see another such testing as Iran supplies Hezbollah through Syria. As of August 8th, 2006, Hezbollah fired 3,333 rockets into the Israeli State. (3) The Israelis have responded forcefully and have declared that they will kill anything that moves, including women and children. They even intentionally attacked a United Nations' peace-keeping base and deliberately killed four United Nations' peacekeepers. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has denounced this action with great anger. (4)

On July 28th, 2006, the New York Times featured a story regarding the tide of Arab opinion turning in support of Hezbollah. (5) It appears that this recent war is welding all of the Moslem world against not only the State of Israel, but against the entire western world. An Australian newspaper recently published a story entitled "War on Europe, Al-Qaida Threat to Destroy Denmark, France, and Norway." (6) Iran recently warned the western world by declaring, "Ignore us at your peril!", and was outraged because they were not invited to the meetings in Rome regarding the war in Lebanon. (7) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has also been rallying his people regarding the Islamic sacred day, which corresponds with August 22nd on our calendar. That day is the 27th day of Rajab, 1427. This day commemorates the night when the prophet Mohammad took his night flight on the winged horse Buraq, first to the farthest mosque, which is Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back. (Koran XVII.1). This is also the day that the United Nations set as a deadline for Iran's answer regarding its nuclear program. (8)

Elsewhere in the world, we find that Red China has announced that it must continue a massive military build-up because of current world instability. Red China already has the world's largest standing army. Red China also re-asserted its deep hatred for Japan because of atrocities during World War II. (9) The whole world seems to be festering, and nuclear arsenals are all being expanded. Remember the economic principle of production for use?

In the August 2006 issue of the Last Trumpet, I also mentioned the discovery of the largest oil field in the world in western Venezuela, containing an estimated 313 billion barrels of heavy crude oil, which is equal to half of all of the oil in the Middle East. Hugo Chavez of Venezuela knows full well that this is a luscious pie cooling in the window, and the oil manipulator will find a way to steal it. Here let it be noted that Chavez was in Russia on July 27th, 2006, purchasing jet fighters and helicopters from Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov. Venezuela also purchased 100,000 Russian-made Kalashnikov assault rifles as the United States issued a protest. (10) With everything that is now going on in the world, it is interesting to note that Admiral Tim Keating, commander of NORAD and Northern Command, stated that the NORAD facility in Cheyenne Mountain, which is atomic blast-proof, is probably no longer needed and is therefore on stand-by status. Keating stated, "It is not likely that we will have a missile attack by Russia or China so we don't need the maintain Cheyenne Mountain in a 24/7 status. We can put it on warm stand-by." (11)

The Cruel Gimmick of Terrorism!

Terrorism is a very real problem, but we must understand that it is also a gimmick. Events of terror are orchestrated and choreographed by those who stand to gain the most from it. The Bush Administration has succeeded in reshaping the American way of life and getting people to surrender freedom and privacy, and it has dismantled the United States' Constitution. All of this was done by the threat of terror. It was the Illuminist Franklin D. Roosevelt who said, "In politics, nothing is by accident. If it happened, you can bet that we planned it that way." The threat of terror holds Americans in a suspended state of fear and submission.

The University of Wisconsin, my former employer, has a controversial professor that was recently the subject of a resolution signed by sixty-one state legislators who demanded his removal. The University, however, came to the defense of Dr. Kevin Barrett, defending his right to teach that the attacks on 9-11-01 were the work of the U.S. Government itself. Dr. Barrett has made a comprehensive study of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and says that the twin towers and building number 7 were brought down by bombs inside the buildings and not by the external hits of airliners. Furthermore, he states that the Pentagon was not hit by a plane but rather by a missile. Barrett also said, "I think a lot sooner than most people realize, 9/11 is going to blow wide open. The official report doesn't stand up to scrutiny – it's very simple." He added, "I am optimistic that 9/11 will ultimately be a catalyst for Americans to take back the Constitution. We have a great Constitution in this country, and it's been trashed and burned by this current administration, and not just this administration,…a lot of Democrats are equally responsible." (12)

The tragedy of the attacks on the World Trade Center has made the date of September 11th, 2001, a day of infamy, but we must understand whose infamy! Here let it be noted that the Federal Government gave the city of New York one billion dollars to be distributed to the families who lost loved ones and to the people who suffered injuries and had their lives ruined by the horrifying event. We have now learned that twenty million of those dollars have been spent on lawyers, hired by the city of New York to deny the claims of cops, firefighters, and others who were sickened and injured on that tragic day. The city has taken legal action against the injured, and eight thousand of these suffering people have been denied compensation. (13) Judgment Day is coming!

On August 9th, the day of the first full moon after the witches' high cross-quarter sabat of Lughnasaid, a plot was uncovered to blow up airliners over the Atlantic Ocean as they traveled from London to New York. The plan was to use liquid explosives, which prompted a ban on bringing any kind of liquid or gel on any airplane. (14) Security levels were raised to orange and even to red in some areas. Countless thousands of people had to throw away liquids and gels of all kinds into large bins as lines at the airports were over nine hundred feet long. Massive numbers of armed guards were called in and long delays were common. (15) Governor Romney of Massachusetts activated the National Guard to Logan Airport in Boston. (16) Governor Schwartzenegger likewise called on the National Guard to patrol the airports in California. (17)

Just days before the terror plot was uncovered, it was announced that seventeen Egyptian college students, who landed at JFK International Airport and were on their way to Montana State University at Bozeman, Montana, were not all accounted for. Eleven students disappeared into thin air in New York. The visas of the eleven were revoked, and the FBI claims that they had been frantically searching for them. (18) Now they have been found and are in custody. The question that arises is: Were these students on an assignment that was other than collegiate and academic? If so, how many other terrorist units are waiting to strike? These are certainly days when much prayer is needed. The true remnant Christians must lift up their voices to the throne of the Almighty quickly!

The Creation in Distress!

These final days before the return of our Saviour to this troubled planet are also days of unusual and freak weather. Truly, the creation is under great distress and is groaning and travailing. Romans 8:22 warns us of this time as follows: "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

The volcanoes are still waking up, and the earthquakes continue to happen throughout the world. There is a continual rumbling under the surface of the earth and pressure is building. Since the August issue of this newsletter, there have been hundreds of more significant earthquakes, but the news media doesn't say much about them. The U.S. Geological Survey publishes a list of these quakes continually. It has been noted that since the large earthquake and tsunami in December 2004 the Pacific Ocean has changed in its behavior. Rogue waves as high as 10-story buildings are appearing ten at a time from calm water. Scientists refer to these waves as "freak", and cannot explain what is happening. (19) I am reminded of Luke 21:25, which reads as follows: "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring."

On August 10th, 2006, a super typhoon slammed into Red China, and brought devastation to a large area, sending one and one-half million people running from their homes. (20)

In the United States, record heat baked our nation and caused death and numerous problems. From California to Washington, D.C., the searing heat broke more than 2,300 records during the month of July, 2006! (21) Electrical demand for cooling was so great in California that rolling blackouts began to occur. The heat wave also left at least 25,000 cattle dead and also killed 700,000 birds. (22)

On the East coast, a power blackout in Queens, New York, left over 100,000 people without electricity during a time of searing heat. This also affected some of the terminals at La Guardia airport. With no refrigeration in the big city, the stench of rotting food was everywhere. Consolidated Edison stated that they could not find the cause of the power outage, and that there was no end in sight. (23)

In the mid-section of our country, St. Louis, Missouri, was also seared by intense heat exceeding 100 degrees Fahrenheit. One intense storm after another hit the area knocking out power and leaving 410,000 homes in the dark; without refrigeration with people suffering from the sweltering heat. (24) Emergency rooms at hospitals were jammed with people. Reports were also coming in nation-wide regarding highways that buckled from the intense heat.

In drought-stricken areas of Australia, water is so scarce that plans are being made to start drinking recycled sewage. The city of Toowoomba in Queensland is strongly considering this. (25) The Bible speaks of such a thing very plainly in II Kings 18:27 as being a great curse and reproach upon a people.

On April 13th, 2006, former President Bill Clinton made a speech in Chicago at a biotechnology conference and stated that 25% of all deaths world-wide are directly related to bad water or the lack of good water. (26)

Another problem that has arisen because of the intense heat and dryness are the many fires that have broken out all over the world. From the United States to Russia, from Indonesia to Spain, and on virtually every populated continent, a ring of fire has broken out. (27)

A recent UPI article arrested my attention regarding the destructive force of heat. The article stated that Red China is planning to test its experimental artificial sun on or near August 15th, 2006, at Hefei Island in East China's Anhui province. The nuclear fusion device is expected to generate such a gigantic plasma discharge that many scientists fear the great risks in such a project. (28) I am reminded of Revelation 16:8-9 which says, "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which had power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him the glory."

America Under Antichrist Management!

The people of the United States are being continually used and manipulated as they are being prepared to become subjects of complete antichrist control. On August 8th, 2006, the company BP announced that they were forced to shut down the biggest oil field in the United States because of sixteen miles of bad pipe. (29) This would drive prices up from the already outrageous levels. BP president Bob Malone said that the pipeline would be closed down indefinitely and issued an apology, but meanwhile, record profits are being enjoyed, and our country reaches new levels of inflation. It is taking more dollars to buy the same things. It is the same old game of decreasing the supply and increasing the demand, and our oil man President, George W. Bush, will do nothing about it.

Is President Bush one of the many antichrists of the last days? It is interesting to note that when President Bush was first elected, he was asked how he liked being called "W" since that was what everyone had been calling him. His answer at the press conference was: "That's me W,W,W!" He said "W" three times. It is interesting to note that the equivalent letter to our English letter "W" is the 6th letter of both the Hebrew and archaic Greek alphabets. In other words, when President Bush said, "That's me, W,W,W, he was saying, "That's me, 666!" We must also take note of the fact that the Bible tells us in Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Since the word "and" is not part of the number, we can add the letters of the number six hundred threescore six, and we find that the total is 23. The 23rd letter of our English alphabet is "W!" I am not saying that George W. Bush is the antichrist, but if he isn't, he will do until the real one comes along!

The forces of the antichrist "Big Brother" are constantly watching the unsuspecting people. It was recently reported that there are now thirty million video surveillance cameras in the United States, and our government is spending over one billion dollars per year to add more. (30) We have also learned that NASA has developed "droid" or "smart" satellites that can fly independently or in formation. Dr. David Miller of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Space Systems Laboratory said that it is like something out of Star Wars: "Where Luke is practicing the use of the Force with a floating droid." These nine-pound spheres are the size of bowling balls and are crammed with computers, sensors, and thrusters. They can zero-in anywhere. (31)

Not only are people being constantly watched, they are also falling under harsh and oppressive laws that violate the Constitution of the United States. One example is the Amnesty Immigration Bill #S.2611, which was recently approved by the United States Senate. If you have ever wondered why the U.S. Census forms have changed so much and ask so many personal questions about your home, number of rooms, square footage, and so on, we now have our answer. On May 26th, 2006, the Senate voted to require U.S. citizens to board illegal aliens in private homes! The legislation was introduced by Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass) and is modeled on the troop boarding practices employed in Boston during the 1770's. Under this plan, the Department of Housing and Urban Development will compile a database of U.S. housing including square footage, number of inhabitants, and location. Illegal aliens would be assigned to homes where the square footage per inhabitant exceeds the national average by 20% or more. Kennedy had the following to say about this new law: "Two problems faced by these immigrants are homelessness and racism. This bill will fix both. Instead of roaming the streets or crowding into ghetto apartments, immigrants would enjoy a secure roof over their heads. They'd be clean, well-rested, and more readily employable. They could also use the address when registering to vote. We are a wealthy country, and many Americans have a surplus of living space. Sharing that space with our brown brothers from Mexico would be both humane and enlightening. Bringing people together like this bill would help promote understanding and tolerance. Segregating immigrants in Latino ghettos is racist. Any critic of this bill is a racist!" (32)

I cannot help but wonder how many illegal immigrants the Kennedys will take into their vast land holdings and compounds. Senator Kennedy will no doubt be exempt from his own legislation for security reasons. I have seen the Kennedy compound in Hyannis Port, Massachusetts, and it is heavily fenced and guarded.

A Sinful World, Gone Berserk!

The word berserk comes from Old Norse witchcraft. A berserker was a person who drank the blood of a bear under the light of a full moon under the northern circumpolar constellation of Ursa Major or the Great Bear. That person was said to go into a frenzy that took the form of unbridled lust for sex and blood. Thus, the word berserk became associated with one who is deranged or mad. In Jeremiah 51:7 we read as follows: "Babylon hath been a golden cup in the Lord's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad."

We live in a world that has incorporated witchcraft into every fiber of society, religion, and government. We must remember that witchcraft is not only rituals, spells, incantations, rope magic, and potions. First of all, Witchcraft is a way of thinking. If the occult Illuminists can get people to just think like witches, they can get them to do anything. That was the purpose of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, The Narnia Chronicles, and so on. It is all about crystal balls, magic wands, and mythological creatures and so on. All of this is wrapped in a shroud of dualistic thought or the principle of the Tao. That principle of dualism teaches that there are two equal gods: one good and one evil. It further teaches that good and evil must not be destroyed but brought into balance because they need each other. In other words, there is good and bad witchcraft; and through legends, sagas, charms, potions, and spells, evil is brought to the same level with good to achieve balance. Remember that it was Satan who wanted to be like the Most High. It was Satan who convinced Eve that she could have both good and evil in her life and still live forever.

The sad fact is that most of the population of the world has gone through a methodical brain-washing that has made them spiritual invalids. We now live in a world where there is very little left of decency and character.

In the Netherlands, pedophiles are registering their own political party in order to further their agenda of legalized child pornography and bestiality and are attempting to lower the legal age of consent from sixteen to twelve. (33)

In Germany, where prostitution is legal, women who have lost their jobs must be willing to accept jobs as prostitutes or lose their unemployment benefits. Brothel owners have access to official data bases of those who have registered for unemployment benefits. The welfare laws of Germany require women under 55 who have been out of work for more than one year to take an available job, including those in the sex industry, or they will lose their benefits. The German government had considered making brothels an exception but ruled this out. (34)

The good news is that our Saviour is coming very soon and will bring every work into judgment. All evil will be destroyed, and the glorious new heaven and earth will appear. Every sign foretold by the prophets and by the Lord Jesus Christ himself are now coming to pass. Every day they are front and center and in your face. God help us to be ready for the great day of His appearing! Revelation 1:7 exhorts us as follows: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

In closing, I want to say thanks to all of you who support this end-time, prophetic ministry in so many ways. God bless you exceedingly is my sincere prayer. We continue to welcome your prayer requests. Our intercessors are ready to bring your requests to the throne of grace and will give each one personal attention. We know that all things are possible to them that believe.

I would like to remind everyone who accesses our website on the computer at www.lasttrumpetministries.org to remember to type in the suffix ".org" and not ".com." A third-party has bought the other suffix and is impersonating us by using our same name. Please help us pray about this. All will be well. Grace and peace be unto you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

David J. Meyer

Acknowledgements

01. TCV News, Jul. 27, 2006, by Jim Kouri, Jerusalem, Israel.
02. Financial Times, Jul. 26, 2006, by Roula Khalaf & Sharmila Devi, Jerusalem, Israel.
03. Associated Press, Aug. 9, 2006, Jerusalem, Israel.
04. New York Daily News, Jul. 26, 2006, by Michele Green & Dave Goldiner, Jerusalem, Israel.
05. New York Times, Jul. 28, 2006, by Neil MacFarquhar, Damascus, Syria.
06. MX News, May 12, 2006, by Sally Buzbee, Melbourne, Australia.
07. The Guardian, Jul. 26, 2006, by Simon Tisdall & Ewen MacAskill, London, England, UK.
08. Matt Drudge Report, Aug. 8, 2006, http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm.
09. Reuters News Service, Jul. 26, 2006, Beijing, China.
10. Radio Free Europe, Jul. 27, 2006, by Claire Bigg, Moscow, Russia.
11. Denver Post, Jul. 27, 2006, by Bruce Finley, Denver, CO.
12. Channel3000.com, Jul. 22, 2006, by Adam Malecek, Madison, WI.
13. New York Daily News, by Joe Mahoney & Corky Siemaszko, New York, NY.
14. Daily Telegraph, Aug. 10, 2006, London, England.
15. Associated Press, Aug. 10, 2006, by Nathaniel Hernandez, Chicago, IL.
16. Associated Press, Aug. 10, 2006, by Brooke Donald, Boston, MA.
17. Los Angeles Daily News, Aug. 10, 2006, by Scott Lindlaw, San Francisco, CA.
18. New York Post, Aug. 8, 2006, by Dan Mangan, New York, NY.
19. MX News, Jul. 12, 2006, Melbourne, Australia.
20. Reuters News Service, Aug. 10, 2006, by Nir Elias, Fuzhou, China.
21. National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration, Aug. 8, 2006, Washington, D.C.
22. AFP News, Jul. 27, 2006, Bakersfield, CA.
23. Associated Press, Jul. 22, 2006, by Verena Dobnik, New York, NY.
24. Associated Press, Jul 22, 2006, by Jim Salter, St. Louis, MO.
25. AFP News, Jul 24, 2006, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia.
26. The Age, Apr. 13, 2006, by Martin Daly, Melbourne, Australia.
27. Associated Press, Jun. 25, 2006.
28. United Press International, Jul. 24, 2006, Beijing, China.
29. New York Times, Aug. 8, 2006, by Clifford Krauss & Jeremy W. Peters, New York, NY.
30. CNN News, Aug. 7, 2006, Niskayuna, NY.
31. United Press International, Jul. 11, 2006, Washington, D.C.
32. American Family Voice, Jul. 2006, by John Semmens. http://www.libertypost.org.
33. American Family Association Journal, Jul. 31, 2006.
34. Ibid.
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 07:19 AM

This is definalty my last message

the reason is that some people out there don't listen they have their views and I have mine, and when I try and make peace with them they don't want to.

it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

so this is is really goodbye

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Lox
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 07:27 PM

hear hear

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 07:21 PM

Just read this thread straight through, something I haven't done on a mudcat thread in a long time. Thanks to Wolfgang, Wilfried, Azizi, Ernest and all the others for a fascinating discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Lox
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 05:19 PM

??????????????

... erm ...

... hmmm ...

... right then ...

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 04:56 PM

this is my last message.

goodbye.

PS
Don't reply to this by PM or anything else

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 04:55 PM

Early in 2005, it was reported that a woman refusing to take a job as a prostitute might have her unemployment benefits reduced or removed altogether [1]. A similar story appeared in mid-2003; a woman received a job offer through a private employment agency. In this case however, the agency apologized for the mistake, stating that a request for a prostitute would normally have been rejected, but the client mislead them, describing the position as "a female barkeeper" [2](German). To date, there have been no reported cases of women actually losing benefits in such a case.

OK.
but this also mean not yet.

I'll adnit that I'm wrong, however it doesn't mean that it could happen does it

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 15 Dec 06 - 04:54 PM

Contents [hide]
1 Forms and extent of prostitution
2 History
3 Politics
4 Legal situation
5 High profile crimes and scandals
6 Sources and external links



[edit] Forms and extent of prostitution
Studies in the early 1990s estimated that about 150,000 - 500,000 women and some men work as prostitutes in Germany. The prostitutes' organization puts the number at 400,000, and this is the number typically quoted in the press today. From other studies, it is estimated that between 10% and 30% of the male adult population have had experiences with prostitutes.

Street prostitution. ('Straßenstrich') Regular street prostitution is often quite well organized and controlled by pimps. Some prostitutes have a nearby caravan, others use the customer's car, still others use hotel rooms. With the recent economic problems, in some large cities "wild" street prostitution has started to appear: areas where women work temporarily out of short-term financial need.

Eros centers. ('Bordell, Laufhaus') An eros center is a house or street ('Laufstraße') where women can rent small one-room apartments for some 80-150 Euro per day. They then solicit customers from the open door or from behind a window. Prices are set by the prostitutes; they start at 30-50 Euros for short-time sex. The money is not shared with the brothel owner. Security and meals are provided by the owner. The women may even live in their rooms, but most do not. Minors, and women not working in the eros center are not allowed to enter. Eros centers exist in almost all larger German cities. The most famous is the Herbertstraße near the Reeperbahn in Hamburg. The largest brothel in Europe is the eros center Pascha in Cologne, a 12 story building with some 120 rooms for rent and several bars.

Pascha brothel, Cologne, 2006Escort services. (Begleitagenturen) Escort services, where you hire a girl for "entertainment" or companionship - followed by sex - exist in Germany, but are not nearly as prevalent as in the U.S.

Bars. In bars, women try to induce men to buy expensive drinks along with the sexual services. Sex usually takes place in a separate but attached building. Prices are set by the bar owner, and the money is shared between the owner and the prostitute.

Apartment prostitution. (Wohnungspuffs) There are many of these advertised in the newspapers. Sometime run by a single women, sometimes by a group of roommates and sometimes as safehouses for traffickers.

Partytreffs and Pauschalclubs are a variation on partner-swapping swing clubs with paid prostitutes in attendance, as well as 'amateur' women and couples who get in without paying the flat-rate charge of about 80 to 120 euros that men pay, including food, drink and unlimited sex sessions, with the added twist that these are performed in the open in full view of all the guests.

FKK and Sauna Clubs the four to five-star establishments of the business, but not much more expensive, or sometimes even cheaper due to intense competition among the numerous clubs concentrated in North-Rhine-Westphalia (=NRW: Cologne, Duesseldorf) and Hesse (Frankfurt). These are brothels formatted after the typical German nudist resorts and public saunas that have existed from times immemorial as 'Frei-Koerper-Kultur-Anlage', 'Nacktstrand' and 'Badehaus'. As such the emphasis is more on wellness and relaxation than on 'nightlife': the establishments open before noon, everbody is naked and many offer park-like outdoor areas, swimming pools, whirlpools, saunas, therapeutic massage services, porno cinemas, dining rooms, private and public 'play rooms', bars ect. Both, clients and service providers pay an admission charge of from 35 to 65 euros, including use of all facilities, food and drinks (some do not allow alcohol or smoking). Prostitutes charge anywhere from 25 to 100 euro for a 20 to 60 minute pleasure session and get to keep it all. Proponents of legal prostitution hold this business model up as example for an ideal working environment for the women.


[edit] History
German prostitution was officially mentioned and lauded for the first time during the Council of Constance in the 12th century, was legalised and regulated in the 1920s to control venereal diseases (STDs). Prostitutes had to be registered with local health authorities and submit to regular STD tests.

During the Nazi era, street prostitutes were seen as degenerate and were often sent to concentration camps. Several of these camps, including Auschwitz, contained brothels, to reward wardens and cooperative inmates, and prostitutes were forced to work there.

After WW2, the country was divided into East Germany and West Germany. In East Germany, as in all countries of the Communist Eastern Block, prostitution was illegal and according to the official position it didn't exist. However there were high-class prostitutes working in the hotels of East Berlin and the other major cities, mainly targeting Western visitors; the Stasi employed some of these for spying purposes. -- Street walkers and female taxi drivers were available for the pleasure of visiting 'Wessies' or 'Westprinzen', too.

In West Germany, the registration and testing requirements remained in place but were handled quite differently in the various regions of the country. In Bavaria, in addition to scheduled STD check-ups regular HIV tests were required since 1987, but this was an exception. Many prostitutes did not submit to these tests, avoiding the registration. A study in 1992 found that only 2.5% of the tested prostitutes had a disease, a rate much lower than the one among comparable non-prostitutes. The compulsory registration and testing was abandoned in 2001. Since then, anonymous, free and voluntary health testing has been made available to everyone, including illegal immigrants. Many brothel operators require them.

Anything done in the "furtherance of prostitution" (Förderung der Prostitution) remained a crime until 2001, even after the extensive criminal law reforms of 1973. This put the operators of brothels in constant legal danger. Most brothels were therefore run as a bar with an attached but legally separate room rental. -- However, many municipalies built, ran and profited from high rise or townhouse-style high-rent Dirnenwohnheime (= whores' dormitories), to keep street prostitution and pimping under control. These are now mostly privatized and operate as Eros Centers. -- In 2001 a one page law sponsored by the Green Party was passed by parliament that made most aspects of prostitution and promoting it legal. Only pimping and trafficking remained illegal.


[edit] Politics
The coalition of Social Democrats and the Green Party that ruled until late 2005 attempted to improve the legal situation of prostitutes in the years 2000-2003. These efforts have been criticized as inadequate by prostitutes' organizations such as HYDRA, which lobby for full normality of the occupation and the elimination of all mention of prostitution from the legal code. The conservative parties in the Bundestag, while supporting the goal of giving prostitutes access to the social security and health care system, have opposed the new law because they want to retain the "offending good morals" status.

The churches run several support groups for prostitutes. These generally favor attempts to remove stigmatization and improve the legal situation of prostitutes, but they retain the long term goal of a world without prostitution and encourage all prostitutes to quit.

Alice Schwarzer and her branch of feminism rejects all prostitution as inherently oppressive and abusive; they favor a law like that in Sweden, where the ruling Social Democrats outlawed the buying of sexual services but not their selling.


[edit] Legal situation
Prostitution is legal in Germany, though it doesn't quite have the same status as a regular occupation. Income from prostitution is taxed at a slightly higher rate than income from normal occupations. Prostitutes even have to charge VAT for their services, to be paid to the tax office. In practice, prostitution is a cash business, and taxes are almost never paid and rarely enforced.

Since 2001 prostitutes and brothels are allowed to advertise. Many newspapers carry daily ads for brothels and for women working out of apartments. Many have websites on the Internet. In addition, sex shops sell magazines specializing in advertisements of prostitutes.

Early in 2005, it was reported that a woman refusing to take a job as a prostitute might have her unemployment benefits reduced or removed altogether [1]. A similar story appeared in mid-2003; a woman received a job offer through a private employment agency. In this case however, the agency apologized for the mistake, stating that a request for a prostitute would normally have been rejected, but the client mislead them, describing the position as "a female barkeeper" [2](German). To date, there have been no reported cases of women actually losing benefits in such a case.

Every city has the right to zone off certain areas where prostitution is not allowed (Sperrbezirk). The various cities handle this very differently. In Munich, street prostitution is forbidden almost everywhere within the city limits, in Berlin it is allowed everywhere, and Hamburg allows street prostitution near the Reeperbahn during certain times of the day. In most smaller cities, the immediate city center as well as residential areas are declared off-limits.

The only city in Germany with an explicit prostitution tax is Cologne. It was initiated early in 2004 by the city council ruled by a coalition of the conservative CDU and the leftist Greens. The sex tax applies to striptease, peep shows, porn cinemas, sex fairs, and prostitution. In the case of prostitution, the tax amounts to 150 euros per month and working prostitute, to be paid by brothel owners (the eros center Geestemünder Straße owned by the city is exempt). Containment of prostitution was one explicitly stated goal of the tax.

Foreign women from most countries can obtain a three-month tourist visa for Germany without problems. Many of them then work in prostitution. This is technically illegal, as the tourist visa does not include a work permit. MubIF


[edit] High profile crimes and scandals
There was a murder of six persons in a brothel in Frankfurt am Main in 1994. The Hungarian couple managing the place as well as four Russian prostitutes were strangled with electric cables. The case was resolved soon after: it was a robbery gone bad, carried out by the boyfriend of a woman who had worked there.

In 2003, Michael Friedman, popular TV talk show host and assistant chairman of the German Jewish community, became embroiled in an investigation of trafficking in women. He had been a client of several escort prostitutes from Eastern Europe who testified that he had repeatedly taken and offered cocaine. After receiving a fine for the drug charge, he resigned his posts.

Also in 2003, well-known artist and art professor Jörg Immendorff was caught in the luxury suite of a Düsseldorf hotel with seven prostitutes (and four more on their way) and some cocaine. He received 11 months on probation and a fine for the drug charges. He attempted to explain his actions by his "orientalism" and his terminal illness.

These cases were only deemed noteworthy because they involved murder and drug trafficking. Generally whore-mongering by celebrities and public figures is not viewed as very titillating by the German public and largely ignored by the media, the general attitude being: "So what, it's only sex...". On the contrary, followers of the German boulevard press will often find pictures of male and female celebrities (including foreign ones) posing happily with naked prostitutes in FKK clubs. Name pop bands have performed at the Cologne Pasha brothel's disco. All the major FKK-clubs have been 'exposed' in positive newspaper stories due to their effective public relations efforts.


[edit] Sources and external links
B. Leopold, E. Steffan, N. Paul: Dokumentation zur rechtlichen und sozialen Situation von Prostitutierten in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland, Schriftenreihe des Bundesministeriums für Frauen und Jugend, Band 15, 1993. (German)
HYDRA, support organization for prostitutes, also has the text of the new prostitution law
Scathing criticism of the new prostitution law, by Doña Carmen, a support group for foreign prostitutes working in Germany (German)
Feministinnen gegen Prostitution, criticism of the new prostitution law from a feminist perspective
Bundesverband Sexuelle Dienstleistung e.V., association of brothel operators.
Freiersein, information site for prostitution customers, run by prostitutes' support organizations. Has a section with "10 rules for fair play" outlining proper behavior of customers.
Reports on human trafficking, by the BKA, the German equivalent to the FBI, in German
Discussion forums on prostitution in Germany: 21orover.com (English), Römerforum (German), bw7.com (German), Rheinforum (German), OWLforum (German), Sachsenforum (German) World Sex Guide, International Sex Guide, Bordellcommunity (German), Hurenmagazin (German), http://www.bremersex.de/, Lusthaus.com (German), Verkehrsberichte-Forum(German)
Snopes Debunking the claim that "Women in Germany face the loss of unemployment benefits if they decline to accept work in brothels.".
Pascha brothel website for their houses in Cologne, Munich and Salzburg
Fkk Guide information, German-English glossary, prices and pictures of FKK brothels and other forms of legal prostitution in Germany, guided tours. (English)



v • d • eProstitution in Europe[hide]
Albania · Andorra · Armenia1 · Austria · Azerbaijan1 · Belarus · Belgium · Bosnia and Herzegovina · Bulgaria · Croatia · Cyprus1 · Czech Republic · Denmark · Estonia · Finland · France · Georgia1 · Germany · Greece · Hungary · Iceland · Ireland · Italy · Kazakhstan1 · Latvia · Liechtenstein · Lithuania · Luxembourg · Republic of Macedonia · Malta · Moldova · Monaco · Montenegro · Netherlands · Norway · Poland · Portugal · Romania · Russia1 · San Marino · Serbia · Slovakia · Slovenia · Spain · Sweden · Switzerland · Turkey1 · Ukraine · United Kingdom

Dependencies, autonomies and other territories
Abkhazia1 · Adjara1 · Åland · Akrotiri and Dhekelia · Crimea · Faroe Islands · Gibraltar · Guernsey · Isle of Man · Jersey · Nagorno-Karabakh1 · Nakhichevan1 · Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus1

1 Has significant territory in Asia.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany"
Categories: Prostitution by country | German society
ViewsArticle Discussion Edit this page History Personal toolsSign in / create account Navigation

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 01:54 AM

Bloody nonsense (Tom's 2nd post of Dec 13)

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:04 PM

did you know that in Germany, that if you don't acepet a job while on the broo, they will send you to a brothel, where you might catch sexual illness.
Because Brothels and such like are legal in Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:01 PM

We Didn't Know
Words and Music by Tom Paxton
We didn't know said the Burgomeister,
About the camps on the edge of town.
It was Hitler and his crew,
That tore the German nation down.
We saw the cattle cars it's true,
And maybe they carried a Jew or two.
They woke us up as they rattled through,
But what did you expect me to do?

[Cho:]
We didn't know at all,
We didn't see a thing.
You can't hold us to blame,
What could we do?
It was a terrible shame,
But we can't bear the blame.
Oh no, not us, we didn't know.

We didn't know said the congregation,
Singing a hymn in a church of white.
The Press was full lf lies about us,
Preacher told us we were right.
The outside agitators came.
They burned some churches and put the blame,
On decent southern people's names,
To set our colored people aflame.
And maybe some of our boys got hot,
And a couple of niggers and reds got shot,
They should have stayed where they belong,
And preacher would've told us if we'd done wrong.

[Cho:]

We didn't know said the puzzled voter,
Watching the President on TV.
I guess we've got to drop those bombs,
If we're gonna keep South Asia free.
The President's such a peaceful man,
I guess he's got some kind of plan.
They say we're torturing prisoners of war,
But I don't believe that stuff no more.
Torturing prisoners is a communist game,
And You can bet they're doing the same.
I wish this war was over and through,
But what do you expect me to do?

[Cho:]

Orders were orders.

Wither it be Germany, America, or any where else the normal cop out.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:25 AM

Ugh! In my haste to write this before leaving for a meeting, I left out a pertinent phrase in this sentence {and while I'm doing this, let me re-write it a bit}:

"Among the economic & psycho-social reasons for African American students doing poorly on required academic placement tests are these factors that I'm citing from my own experience: "

**

It's still not written well, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 09:13 AM

Also, Wilfried Schaum, thank you posting information about the movie Toxi and the other personal experiences that you shared.

Is this movie dubbed in English?

Also, I agree that children of different races and ethnicities {in this context, I mean Latinos/Latinas} can help reduce prejudicial attitudes and misinformation. However, if the interracial school has a school board, an administration, faculty, and support staff {excluding the lunch ladies and janitors] who are White, and who have not acknowledged and worked through the Euro-centric and prejudicial attitudes that they grew up with, then attending an interracial school will not be a great experience for non-White children.

Also, if the curriculum and textbooks are still Euro-centric and short on accurate, indepth information about non-European nations and the contributions and history of non-White peoples, then in my opinion, the student population of the school being integrated doesn't matter very much.

Furthermore, because of a multiplicity of economic and psycho-social reasons children usually still have a segregated experience in school that are racially integrated but which place children in tracks of classes as a result of those students' results in placement tests.

Among these economic & psycho-social reasons was that schools then weren't integrated until junior high school [around 10 years old]and I don't have any doubt that the elementary schools attended by White students were academically better than the elementary schools attended by Black students. In addition, the White students in segregated schools had White teachers had role models, and did note have to work through issues of group inferiority...and there are a host of other advantages these White students had over the Black students they would encounter and compete academically with in junior high school and high school...

To demonstrate what I mean by integrated schools still being segregated, although my public high school [which had 3,000 students] was 50% African American, and about 50% White, because I did well in the academic placement test, my high school classes had only 2 other Black students out of thirty students total. These academic groupings were identified by some letter in the alphabet-though the highest academically achieving group wasn't the "A" group and the lowest wasn't "Z". However, the lowest academically group was all Black.

**

Again, thank you, Wilfried, Wolfgang, and others for your comments. It's good to know good people who ever and where ever they are.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:42 AM

Wolfgang, thanks posting information about the book "Destined to Witness. Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany", by Hans-Juergen Massaquoi.

I thought that name was familiar to me, and through the wonders of Google, found confirmantion that this is the same Hans-Juergen Massaquoi who was an editor with Ebony magazine {a monthly magazine with middle class African Americans as the focus population.

I'm going to take the liberty of quoting a long excerpt of this 4 page online article Black History and Germany 2 :

"The Nazis and the Black Holocaust
When Adolf Hitler came to power in 1932, the racist policies of the Nazis impacted other groups besides the Jews. The Nazis' racial purity laws also targeted gypsies (Roma), homosexuals, the mentally challenged, and blacks. Precisely how many Afro-Germans died in Nazi concentration camps is not known, but estimates put the figure at between 25,000 and 50,000. The relatively low numbers of blacks in Germany, their wide dispersal across the country, and the fact that the Nazis concentrated on the Jews were some factors that made it possible for many Afro-Germans to survive the war. One such survivor, who now lives in the U.S., published a book about his experiences as a black child growing up in Nazi Germany.

Hans-Jürgen Massaquoi, the retired managing editor of Ebony magazine, was born in Hamburg to a Liberian father and a German mother in 1926. In his book, Destined to Witness: Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany, Massaquoi describes with stunning frankness how as a young boy he so badly wanted to fit into the Nazi culture that he had a babysitter sew a swastika on his sweater. He wore it to school only once before his mother removed it and tried to explain to him why he could not join the Hitler Youth. The German title of his book, Neger, Neger, Schornsteinfeger ("Negro, Negro, chimneysweep"), reflects one of the many taunts he heard as a young boy.

When the war came to Germany, Hans-Jürgen had more than the Nazis to worry about. Heavy Allied bombing forced him and his German mother Bertha Baetz to flee Hamburg. He attributes his survival to good luck and the help of his mother and German friends. In 1947 he went to Liberia before immigrating to the United States and joining the army as a paratrooper and later studying journalism at the University of Illinois. That led to his career at Ebony.

In Germany Massaquoi had avoided the tragic fate of many blacks during the Nazi era, but it was usually more difficult for adult blacks. The luckier ones were forcibly sterilized but allowed to live. Others were sent to concentration camps. Some Allied prisoners of war, including black French colonial soldiers and African Americans, were interned in Stalag-III-A at Luckenwalde near Berlin. In the summer of 1940 about 4,000 black POWs were sent to Luckenwalde. In 1941 300 of them were forced to act as extras in the German film Germanin (1943). Other black POWs also appeared in Quax in Afrika (1943, with Heinz Rühmann).

Speaking of movies, Neger, Neger, Schornsteinfeger, a German TV movie based on Massaquoi's book, is scheduled to air on German TV in fall 2006. Actress and producer Whoopi Goldberg, who owns the English-language rights to his book, has been trying to get Massaquoi's story made into a major motion picture for at least eight years, so far without success."

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 Dec 06 - 08:18 AM

Gulliver - The first two lines of Heine's poem are often quoted in the sense you put in it but originally it is a deep-drawn sigh of homesickness, not so much for the fatherland ("it can't decay") but for his mother ("she might die") and all his other friends long gone.

Azizi - I appreciated your contribution very much. Racism was one of the mainstreams of Nazi Germany. Not only the Jews were prosecuted, but other races, too, Gypsies, Slavs, and Negroes weren't held in high esteem. Example: During the Olympic Games in 1936 Hitler congratulated the winners with a handshake, but not Jesse Owens (for those who don't know him: he was a famous runner, and black).

Racism was still virulent in the post-war times. This stopped in the early fifties when the movie Toxi was shown. It is about a daughter of a white mother, dead, and a black father, transferred and never heard of. The girl, aged five, bearing out all resentiments finally wins the hearts of all people she meets. She is so nice, so cute - you could hear the tears drop in the audience. Seeing her fate people became aware what a nonsense racism is. (In the end her father comes back and holds her in his arms - under the christmas tree.)

It was said above that a common school for all races is the best way to fight racism. So it was in my country; the offspring of black and white marriages weren't discriminated. Later on, since l963, they were conscripted and fully accepted in the army. The first soldier in my old company to get the medal of merit was one of them. Fine guy.

McGrath - Hitler toured through the entire Nation during the election campaigns, and a lot of people had the chance to see him in action.
A late distant relative slobbered over "his steely eyes" she had looked into.
Opposite story: In my late grandfather's wallet I found a coloured image of Hitler. Good grief! My grandfather! But when I turned the image I read on the backside: "In these eyes you see the entire abyss of criminal intent." He must have used in those days for counterpropaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM

Virtually all the footage of Hitler which I have seen are from after he had achieved power. And in pre-TV days I would imagine that relatively few of the minority of Germans who actually voted for him in 1932 had ever seen him in action, and there would have been various reasons they voted for the Nazis other than how Hitler looked.

Once in power there seems to be a process by which the role of leader lends a kind of aura, so that many people, even most people, no longer see ridiculous mannerisms of the leaders as ridiculous. And those mannerisms often become more exaggerated.

I'm thinking here of more modern examples - Margaret Thatcher or Dubya.

And in all such cases there were plenty of people outside the circle of admirers who never ceased to see the mannerisms as absurd. Of course in the case of Hitler I assume that if they were in Germany, and fortunate enough to still be at liberty, they would have kept quiet about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 01:37 AM

Sorry, I do not have a sister whose choice I can disapprove of...

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Right on, Bert.

Wolfgang - You're quite right that Hitler looks ridiculous now...but consider this: Many forms of popular entertainment that were all the rage in some past decade may also look or sound completely ridiculous now. Yet they were once taken quite seriously. It is the same in politics or anything else.

The things we take for granted now will probably look ridiculous to some future society.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Bert
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 10:43 AM

What made the Germans behave as they did during the war?

It is because they are people and people can be like that if they get uncontrolled power.

It can happen (and has happened) again.

Just a few examples...

The Roman Empire
Slavery in the South
Uganda under Idi Amin
Pol Pot
Iraq against the Kurds
Iran after the Islamic Revolution
China in the Cultural Revolution

And many others that I've overlooked.

You can see it starting every day in your own country when petty bureaucrats get a little more power than they can handle. It starts small and then gets out of hand if it is allowed to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 08:39 AM

Azizi,

I appreciate your contribution. There's a book about growing up as a black boy in Nazi Germany:
Destined to Witness. Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany, by Hans-Juergen Massaquoi.
I've read it without stopping for more than a meal.

Gulliver,

you write "I still don't understand it" and so feel I. In the Germans I know the mystic of this man and the feeling of being spellbound is completely gone. One common reaction to a video of Hitler (or Goebbels etc.) speaking in my generation is laughter. Perhaps we shouldn't, thinking of the several million dead. But this man is so absurd that we fail to understand how anyone in the early 1930s could not laugh about him. He now is the Hynkel he always was. Why only did history act so strange to let a person who under normal circumstances would have had the popularity of a soapbox orator at the edge of a parc act out his craziest fantasies?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 07:41 AM

Fwiw, I probably won't be posting to that thread again, as I didn't intend to and don't want to appear to be hijacking it with the topic of other folk's attitudes about Black people.

There've been at least a few discussions of race relations & race prejudice on Mudcat before. And there probably will be more such discussions in the future-not that I plan to start any...

But discussions about growing up in post World War II Germany are rare, and are much too important to be crowded out by a subject that-in my opinion-is only tangential to the thread's topic.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:41 PM

well put!! LH   I think we are all preaching to the choir. Too bad. Human nature is not that kind.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:30 PM

"if people will only allow their children the freedom to mix with others and not bring up the fears that abound today we all could live in a better world"

Exactly! What kept the blacks and whites divided into those 2 worlds I spoke of back then was mainly...they just didn't mix. And the separation made people afraid of each other, and they perpetuated it, and the fear went on. Children who are given the chance to mix freely with other races and cultures soon lose that fear of the unknown "other". It dissolves in the presence of the known. Knowledge, in other words, casts out fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:28 PM

Sorry--forgot to sign---hate this "Guest" business---if you have something to say---say it and identify yourself.   Kidnappers write anonymous notes---as do hate mongers



Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:23 PM

Azizi: Your comments above are so well presented and taken.   Having left Austria in 1938 (as a 5 yr old toddler)my feelings over the years have taken a while to come to terms with what happened and the newer generations. I wrote about that above. So--won;t repeat.

Let me address your comment about the "white Jewish female friend" and the visits. That is to me such a sad tale---and one that I have heard before---sadly---while in High School. Among boys.   

There are a few films I would like to recommend if you have not seen them as yet. They address such topics in the most warm and entertaining way,

A Bronx Tale    --- Sort of a Tragi Comic West Side Story w/ De Niro

Liberty Heights----   Part of Baltimore pictures of Barry Levinson. Check the scene where the Black Doctor drives the white boy home after kicking him out of his house for visiting his daughter. The boy and daughter have a great relationship---and the boy's dad (Joe Montegna") truly bring the hypocrisy of relationships into it---in a tragi-comic (again that word) way.

Which brings me to my final comment. Since you gave a personal anecdote I will as well. As a child (from 9-15) I was fortunate to be able to attend the no longer existing Ethical Culture School Camp (summers) as a partial scholarship camper.   This was the 1940s and they made sure that there was a mix of all races, religions, and economic strata (hence the partial scholarship---there were full ones as well). Individual programs of your chosing, rotating meal seatings (to mingle with all ages and people), serve your table--no waiters, etc;   

My point is that if people will only allow their children the freedom to mix with others and not bring up the fears that abound today we all could live in a better world. If you wonder did I practice what I said I felt at ECSC---yes. I am not color blind (what a stupid expression)---but what matter is it. Frankly, I wish I had accomplished what some of the other campers did---both Black and White.   Two of the White ones became Bway Producers and the Black one that stands out in my mind became a Secty of the Army under LBJ and I still treasure our correspondence from that time.

Yes--one reads the papers and hears of these terrible neighborhboods. Yet, with some selectivity one also knows that your children have chosen friends they want to "hang" with. So, if you trust your child---black or white---yellow or green---and believe they make correct choices and are trustworthy then they should be given the freedom to visit and spend time with whomever they choose. To deny this is to create the attitude of paternelism (or Momism---have to be PC) that creates rebellion and, as well, a mistaken feeling of superiority that translates to inferiority to the other child.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:59 PM

So much of what you describe back then, Azizi, was just taken for granted. People didn't discuss it, because seemingly it had just "always been that way".

The small towns I grew up in and lived in in Ontario and New York during my youth were white. All-white. You virtually never saw a black person. The only place one tended to see black people or encounter them was in the larger urban centers...(like Syracuse, when I was living in central New York State, for example). The attitude was not good. Small-town white people would have been afraid to go into a black neighborhood and they just didn't. Period. Black people didn't tend to go into the white neighborhoods. The places one encountered those of different race were downtown areas, and people of different race didn't talk to each other...much. At least, put it this way, they didn't casually socialize. Not at all.

There was a lot of fear there, under the surface, but mostly it was just like 2 completely different worlds, and people simply took that for granted.

That's the situation I remember from when I was a kid and an adolescent. The one black person I knew at that time was Reynolds Winslow. He was a designer, and he worked for my father for a few years in his design office in the late 60's. Reynolds was a smart guy, very articulate, very well dressed, and good at his job. He had that neat sort of well-groomed look you see Sidney Poitier usually depicting in the movies he did in the 60's.

It wasn't until I moved to Toronto in '69 that I found myself in a situation where all different races of people were meeting and socializing together pretty freely. It certainly was different that way from small-town New York State.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:05 PM

Some folks here may be interested in this discussion I just found about race, ethnicity, and religion:

What is Your Race & Ethnicity - Poll - (Demographic Tuesdays)
by DrSteveB ;Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 04:01:14 AM PST

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/5/7114/08229

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:09 AM

I'm sure all of us second that sentiment. It would be helpful all 'round.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

I confess that I did not read this thread until early this morning. As an African American who grew up in the North in the 1950s I have almost the same aversion to the subject of Nazi Germany as I do to the subject of African American slavery & lynchings. At different times in my adult life I have avoided reading about these subjects as it hurts too much.

When I was growing up I {and I'm convinced many if not most Black people I knew} made no distinction between White people from different ethnic groups. I {and I'm convinced most Black people I knew} considered Jewish people to be White {and yes I know now that there are some non-European Jewish people-but I'm sharing what I believed then-and actually what I believed up to my experiences at a Swedish Lutheran college when I saw first hand White on White {or White on Jewish prejudice}. Given my belief that Jewish people were White, I think that the core of my aversion to thinking about Nazi Germany was that I felt that if White people hated "their own people" and could commit such atrocities against their own people, then there is no depths to the hatred they felt and the cruelty they could commit against people like me who are non-White.

My point-one of my points anyway-is that it is cathartic to read threads such as this one. While I'd rather think "we are all one regardless of race, creed or color" thoughts, in my opinion, the reality is we aren't even halfway there yet.

I grew up in an all Black neighborhood of a New Jersey city {all Black with the exception of a few interracial families-White wife/Black husband}. My elementary school had a Black male principal but all the teachers were White. Everything was segregated-the schools, YMCAs/YWCAs, birlscouts, boyscouts, dance classes, summer day camps, and churches. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that pre-1960s there were few opportunities where Black people could meet and interact with White children, youth, and adults. With few exceptions {such as our Black doctor, Black principals, Black church ministers, and church deacons} White people were the authority figures. I saw them in person from afar. I read about them in textbooks, in magazines, and in newspapers. I saw them on television. And I judged them as better than me.

It was not until my junior high years {11-12 years old} that I had Black teachers. It was also not until junior high school that I had White classmates. Thankfully, the myth of White superiority began to crack for me when I found out that academically I could do as well or better than many White students in my classes.

Unlike Wilfried Schaum's comment that "When we were old enough the problems of race and hate were taught extensively; we learned the whole sad history.", I can't recall any discussion of race in any public schools that I attended.

My recollection was that there was very little interracial socialization that occurred after school hours. I remember in those years that I had only one White girl-Leslie {who "happened to be Jewish"} who I considered my friend. However, that friendship died when her mother 'allowed' me over her homeone time, but she wasn't allowed over mine. The reason Leslie gave me was that her mother was afraid for her safety in my neighborhood. That really hurt as it was an insult not just to me and my family but to my entire-safe-neighborhood.

I didn't plan to share any of these comments. I planned to just say "Wolfgang, thanks for this starting thread. I found it very interesting". But having started to write just that, I felt those words weren't enough. I felt that I had to face and to share why for so long I avoided opening and reading this thread.

Wolfgang, in your 04 Oct 06 - 05:14 PM post you wrote:

"When I grew older (from 16 onwards, perhaps) I always found it 'disturbing' to live in this country"

"The contrast between the past and the present still disturbs me but I accept it now as unavoidable and even helpful."

"I think the present has to be permanently disturbed with reminders of this past lest we forget."

-snip-

In contrast to your statements, I would say that though I now feel very comfortable about my racial identity, I am still disturbed about living in a country-indeed-in a world that still considers Black as "less than".

While I think "things" have improved, I know that institutional racism and personal racism is not just a thing of the past.

But thank goodness for Mudcat. It is threads like this one which help us get to know each other better.

That said, I continue to wish that there were more people of color on Mudcat who could share their stories and learn from the stories that folks share here. I am convinced that there are other Black people and other people of color who are interested in exchanging information & opinions about folk music, blues, folk culture, and numerous other topics that we talk about here-including this one.

Hopefully, those individuals will find Mudcat soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:49 AM

Well, it doesn't all happen on one day. It creeps up on people by degrees, and they may wake up one morning (as a lot of German soldiers, officers, and civilians did, each in his or her own time) and realize with horror that they are irrevocably trapped in a corrupt national system, and it's too late now for them to undo what has been done or to escape it...or they may not wake up to that at all, in which case they will continue serving blindly right to the end, and believing blindly that what they are doing is not only right, not only good, it is the only thing that can be done.

Those who do wake up to the ugly reality tend to lose their enthusiasm, lose their fighting spirit, and they are castigated for it...shamed publicly...called "defeatists", "appeasers", "cowards", "weaklings", "failures", even "traitors". Some will be demoted. Some disciplined. A few executed.

The true believers who go on to the end are hunted by the victors after it's over and called "war criminals" (and some of them were just that, while some were not).

It could happen in any country, depending on the ruthlessness and cunning of its leaders, and depending on the time and general circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:29 AM

I just found this thread and found it very interesting as I spent 16 years in Germany, first studying then working (I'm Irish). I spent a lot of time researching German history from Bismark to the Weimar Republic in an effort to understand what went wrong with this country.

As Heinrich Heine wrote:
Denk' ich an Deutschland in der Nacht,
Dann bin ich um den Schlaf gebracht.
(Thinking of Germany in the night,
I am robbed of sleep)

Some thoughts that kept me awake at night 20 years ago:

What made the Germans behave as they did during the war? Is there any real connection between today's Germany and that which dragged the continent into the second world war? Can it all happen again? Most Germans would say that too much had changed in Germany and the world to permit a return to the behaviour and views of the thirties. Extreme left-wingers, certain artists, some students, and many foreigners were for a time doubtful.

On the one hand, because of their history and geography, it is impossible to generalize about the Germans.

But I found it difficult to look at a map, or listen to a piece of Wagner's music, or think about the past without the memory of Hitler coming to mind. This mass-murderer stands athwart German history. But there was a time not so long ago when many if not most Germans were willing to regard him as the greatest German, when clergymen, university professors, writers, poets and painters looked up to him in awe as a hero who had come to save Germany, and were willing to accord him veneration and unquestioning obedience.

How was one to account for the capitulation of a country generally considered to be among the most cultivated in Europe to a man who was contemptuous of all the values of civilization?

Of course part of the problem were the economic, psychological, structural and legal defects of the Weimar Republic, which eroded its popular support, and the failure of the political leadership of the time to overcome these problems. Hitler, in contrast, was a political animal who moved fast and ruthlessly to take advantage of the mistakes made by political antagonists.

As regards Anti-semitism, this has been around in Europe since Roman times. But it can be argued that it reached new expression under Martin Luther, who asked: "What shall Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews? Since they live among us and we know about their lying and blasphemy and cursing, we cannot tolerate them." He recommended "setting fire to their synagogues and schools and covering over what will not burn with earth so that no man will ever see a stone or cinder of them again", etc. Kristallnacht (the night in 1938 when Hitler ordered the destruction of the synogogues) was the answer to Luther's prayer.

I found it hard, impossible even, to forget and forgive the murders and destruction of the war, unparalleled in Europe since the dark ages, yet carried out by a well-educated, civilized race, and planned and orchestrated by some of the best educated and disciplined minds in Europe.

I still don't understand it...

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 12:55 PM

Aside from their great intrinsic interest, these reminiscenses are also here to tell us about ourselves. I am grateful for the effort made to bring these events back to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:04 AM

I'd like to add my appreciation for the first-hand testimonies of Wolfgang and Wilfried. It certainly does illustrate the danger of any blanket generalization.

Thanks again.

Subject: RE: BS: Growing up in post-holocaust Germany
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 05:55 PM

I suppose, on the other hand, it's worth looking at what has happened in Iraq, where the Occupation was evidently instructed from Washington to purge everyone associated with the former regime, and the outcome has been disastrous.

There were other factors there - notably the speed with which the invasion crushed the opposing forces. There hadn't been time for the same degree of devastation and war weariness, which I imagine in Germany reduced the options andthe appetite for a continuing Iraq style "resistance".

But it is pretty generally agreed that the post invasion civil and miltary purge of Ba'ath suppoters - even nominal ones - has made things far worse than they otherwise would have been.

Maybe in that kind of situation you sometimes have to take a long spoon and sup with the devil. But I think you ought to be honest about what you are doing, with yourself and with the world. Even if the Occupation had to do that, a bit more honesty would have made it easier for a new generation to set the balance a bit straighter.