Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley

Subject: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: rich-joy
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 08:02 PM

Can anyone give me some more info on the "Dumper" music that begins John Tams' "Pulling-Down Song" on Muckram Wakes' excellent 1973 LP Trailer LER2085 "A Map of Derbyshire". (since "Bulmerised"?)

The aged photocopy that I have of the record cover, explains that the "Dumper, dumper, dumper, diddley, dumper, dumper day" tune was based "very roughly" upon a George Fradley tune.

Now I gather that George was an old Derbyshire singer, who is featured on some cassettes of music from early last century (particularly "folk" and music hall), but can anyone point me in the direction of this particular tune.

Or, some fairground music recording that is very similar in rhythm, speed and feel ...

Thanking you,


Cheers! R-J
(Down Under)

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: gnomad
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:20 AM

GF also contributes the sleeve notes for the Squire of Tamworth and for Fifty Years Ago on that LP. As this suggests that he was known to the artists it could be worth contacting them. John Tams is certainly still around and performing.

One of my favourite LPs BTW, shame we are unlikely to see a CD reissue.

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:53 AM

Running your "Dumper, dumper, dumper, diddley, dumper, dumper day"Rhythm through my head immediately made Souza's music spring to mind so while I'm not suggesting it's the actual tune I think
"Liberty Bell" (Monty Python) could be something similar

Gerry

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 03:57 AM

Gerry, I think Liberty Bell goes Da dumper, diddley, dumper, dumper, dumper, dumper day :)

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 04:11 AM

Yeah but you get the idea of what I mean for similar tunes

Gerry

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: SylviaN
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:55 PM

As Gnomad suggests, John is very approachable, as are anyone else that was in the band at the time. Not sure of the exact line up when the LP was recorded. If Keith Kendrick was in the group then, he's another one you could try.
Cheers
Sylvia

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM

Hey-up!!

Yez could aalwez try contactin' Roger Watson at TAPS (Traditional Arts Projects) - He'll knaah if anybody does - He was there

Gan on - Gerruptivit!

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:40 PM

Hi There,

The Dumper tune was written/adapted by John Tams who wrote the Pulling Down Song.

George Fradley had lots of tunes in his head along with complete songs, fragments, etc. and JT is the master of adoption and adaption. I don't think that the tune was anything attributable and for all copyright purposes it's by JT. He might have more accurate recollections.

As to similar music, your best bet is to listen to recordings of 'Fairground Organs'. You could imagine 'Dumper Diddley' being played on one of these monster musical machines.

Although 'Map of Derbyshire' was before my time, I played and sang the tune and song for a large part of my professional music career. It's dear to my heart and somewhere in my papers there's a suite of songs written by Ian Carter as the basis for a musical about fairgrounds and inspired by the Pulling Down Song.

Johnny Adams - in Muckram Wakes for many years!

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: rich-joy
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:49 PM

Thanks to you all for your replies - and a special thanks to Johnny Adams!!!

I've enjoyed singing "Pulling Down Song" after shows for many years and it never fails to move someone to tears - oftimes ME!!!   
Loved the "A Map of Derbyshire" LP - and also have a fascination for fairgrounds!!

Let's hope Ian Carter's idea one day comes to life!
(though I believe that John Tams was instrumental in the new 2006 BBC "Radio Ballad" series and that one of those was on Fairground Life ...)

I am after this music to play behind a "circus clown" type scene in a folky outdoor theatre production at New Year (it's Down Under, in case you're wondering!!) and the Muckram Wakes piece fitted the feel and rhythm perfectly.    I will try some more Fairground Organ sites and hopefully will find something similar to George/John's "Dumper Song"(!) that will tie in well with that fragment. (the "Liberty Bell" is too well known as Monty Python ...)


Thanks again,
Cheers! R-J


PS   are any of the Muckram Wakes LPs available on CD, I wonder???

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:04 PM

Where Down Under? I'm in Oz at New Year. If I'm anywhere near I'll come and be audience!

I have one other Muckram album (Warbles, Jangles & Reeds) transferred to CD. I'll happily send you a copy.

Johnny A

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: rich-joy
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:04 PM

Great! Will you in Queensland, perchance?! - at Woodford?!

Thanks for that CD offer, Johnny, that'd be beaut!! Shall I PM you?


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:18 PM

Not this trip!

Anyway, PM me with your address and I'll get a CD to you. I think I've got some fairground stuff in the archive too. I'll have a look.

J

Subject: RE: Fairground Music - MuckramWakes/Fradley
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 11:55 AM

Woodland Flowers/Uncle Jim's always remind me of fairground/steam organs

Gerry