BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...

Subject: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:40 AM

To start the right wing political firestorm season on cable & talk radio, a week before the election, and revving up the Republican base to run out and vote.

I shudder to think how many otherwise sane people voted for that jerk. He isn't the only rich white boy politician born with a silver foot in his mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:13 AM

I agree. The best thing Dems could do right now is shush. Let the seething anger of voters do the work. Ya gotta know when to hold it, know when to fold it . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:13 AM

However, the House will be Dem controlled when the smoke clears.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:26 AM

Another good reason why the BS section should be for members only. Troll threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: skipy
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:29 AM

What he is or has done I have not a clue & don't care!
But....................he does use his name!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 10:47 AM

He told a two sentence sarcastic joke about Bush being a dumb coddled rich kid whose undistinguished academic pursuits in language and history ended with his being bogged down in Iraq.

The media however only play the second sentence where Kerry fails to insert the word us in "..with such a poor education you get (us) stuck in Iraq."

If you want to hear the 1st and the now famous second sentence you will have to watch the Daily show.

This is much like the time Clinton was accused of having a meltdown with Mike Wallace but 90% of that interview was never played on TV because it actually contained FACTS

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:43 AM

Chris Wallace, not Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:44 AM

Have to admit, I saw the clip and was furious. He came across as implying that all the military in Iraq are uneducated and dumb. I have yet to see the first part.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST,cruiser
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:04 PM

For perspective:

Mr. Kerry said this and botched the joke:

Mr Kerry told an audience of students: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Mr. Kerry was supposed to say this:

A spokeswoman for Mr Kerry said the prepared joke was: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

His botched joke appeared to criticize the troops and not Mr. Bush as it was supposed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:18 PM

Another example that demonstrates that humorless stiffs like John Kerry shouldn't be attempting to be funny. He muffed what was a dumb joke about Bush in the first place, and now he wants to take a stand because he thinks he let the republicans pushed him around in his presidential run, and he wants to maintain his "credibility" as a candidate for president in 2008.
John, you won't be nominated, you had your shot, now shut up and sit down.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Cruiser
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:46 PM

Kerry needs to apologize and refrain from any more attempts at political humor.

An ex-girlfriend once told me most guys never get the punch line of a joke right; Kerry epitomizes that.

Yes, I voted for Mr. Kerry.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:57 PM

I see that the text of the speech with the (rather lame) joke, in the fuller version where Bush was clearly the intended target, was actually released to the press in advance of the speech. So they know perfectly well it was a fluffed line,not an insult.

Fair enough to have a go at Kerry for messing up his lines - after all Bush has come in for a fair bit of that. But trying to make out it was a deliberate insult - that's straight dishonesty.

Nothing new there then.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:58 PM

Kerry DOESN'T need to apologize. The Bush White House is just trying to make Kerry the issue to take the pressure off of Bush, because the press and the public might hold him liable for the dumb ass decisions they've been making for the last six years.

Bait and switch. Karl Rove's fingerprints are all over this.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:59 PM

Have you people forgotten that two years ago George W. Bush's cousin, John Kerry, threw in the towel the day after the stolen presidential election? 3 states were in the electoral condition of Florida, 2000, yet Kerry took a dive. Of COURSE he's going to do what he can to help the shadow govt continue deluding you. He works for the gangsters controlling the U.S. For him NOT to be devisive would be out of character. Bush and Kerry are related, they belong to the same cult (Skull & Bones), and they're both for big govt, as in global. Their act is even more transparent than professional wrestling.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:01 PM

With you at the helm, Guest, we are safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:04 PM

Hey Kerry, Mr. Ed wants his face back...idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:05 PM

Dumb-ass he's not. He was talking about a dumb-ass. BUT, people that just aren't funny should know better when not to tell a joke. As for the media they wouldn't know a joke if it was choking them, so wouldn't ya know that those dumb-asses made it even worst & only carried the half of it. Just like the "Dean Scream".

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: IvanB
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:36 PM

Actually, all the news reports I heard gave the entire quote and he was stupid to have tried it. He's not the guy to carry off a joke well even if he gets it right.

As for Kerry's concession before all the states were sure of their vote outcomes, I'd remind Guest above that conceding an election does nothing officially to give it to the opponent. If the votes had ultimately proclaimed Kerry the winner, he'd have been the winner despite any concession speeches he might have made.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Cruiser
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:36 PM

My old Mother, that I have never heard say any unkind words against anyone, has a saying: "Please be careful of what you say...there are some things you can never take back" How many times I have remembered that, though, too late after having said something I should not have said.

The full damage is already done and can never be retracted. However, a dignified apology at least shows that he can take full responsibility for his misspoken words. This is a terrible mistake at this point in the pre-election mind of voters.

I jumped the gun and got angry when I heard his comments, but then took the time to learn the facts, as I stated above. Kerry should somehow let everyone know what he meant to say; he owes everyone at least that much. Either way, his presidential aspirations were forever ended by his last comment. I would never vote for him again. Not just because I am a veteran and was somewhat offended by what he said, but because he demonstrated to not be much above the level of the current misspoken fool of the English language, Mr. Bush.

Democrats sure make it difficult for a registered Republican to vote for any of their candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:58 PM

"That's one small blooper for man....one giant..."

never mind...

I SAW him glance down at his notes in the middle of the 'joke'...obviously, he had not read it over 203 times and rehearsed.

It is easy to explain, but not easy to stop all the right-wing stations playing the UNexplained version 273 times.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:46 PM

"Who's Really Smarter?

Despite all the talk questioning Bush's ability to pronounce words and claims that Kerry is a fussy intellectual, some pseudo-scientists are saying the Massachusetts senator's IQ may actually be lower than the president's.

Steve Sailer, a columnist for Vdare.com, has a few interesting things to point out in his column about the brainwaves of the presidential candidates.

'There's been a lot of talk about how Senator Kerry has a lot higher IQ than Bush … the thing is, though, there's very little hard evidence out there,' Sailer told FOX News on Tuesday.

At the age of 22, both men took the IQ-type tests required of candidate military officers — Bush took one to get into the Air National Guard and Kerry took one in his efforts to become a Navy officer. Sailer said that Kerry scored in the 50th percentile — about average for all who applied with him but "well above average intelligence" of others.

On his Air Force Qualifying Test, the president 'scored a little bit better, better than about 2/3 of the applicants.' Sailer said.

While the two tests aren't perfectly comparable, Sailer says they provide no evidence that Kerry is smarter and that, if anything, Bush is smarter than Kerry.

Bush got a 1206 on his SATs, the college entrance exams, and maintained a C+ average at Yale University. His graduate management aptitude test score and grades at Harvard Business School are not known, however.

Kerry's grades and academic test scores remain wholly unavailable, but he did not graduate from Yale with honors.

Bush actually has higher IQ — in the mid 120s, Sailer said, while Kerry's is about an even 120.

'The question is, first of all, is Bush really as dumb as Democrats like to say? The answer is no, he's a clever man. Is Kerry quite as smart as people think he is? Probably not,'"

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:03 PM

If georgie is in the mid-120's, then the average ape must be at least 150.

People have been bitching about Dems not having any backbone. Granted Kerry should not have told a dumb joke and should have made sure he got it right, BUT he did call it like it is with the following, which I found quite refreshing:

    "If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

    I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

    The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

    Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men. And this time it won't work because we're going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq."

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:12 PM

"Look out how you use proud words.
The wear long boots, they wear hard boots,
they walk off proudly, they can't hear you calling,
Look out how you use proud words." (Carl Sandburg)

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM

"...No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq." ~ John F. Kerry

Yep. This guy will be hauled-off and muzzled by a DNC goon squad if he doesn't shut-up soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:22 PM

Basing intelligence levels on IQ is as smart as basing the temperature of Canada on what it was in Winnipeg at 12:37 today. Fact is that lately neither Bush nor Kerry have been able to shut their mouths. But because Kerry puts his foot in it so seldom, well, it make the news. When Bush can get a complete sentence said without stepping on his crank, folks, THAT'S NEWS!

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:45 PM

Why?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:55 PM

Ccan any technical wizard out there link us to a site which is hosting the message banner from the soldiers in Iraq to Kerry? It's a scream. Currently it's on the top of the Drudge report, but it won't be there long.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:01 PM

Actually, his "slip" was a bit like the Mel Gibson anti-Semitic tirade while drunk, I think. I think what he said actually does reflect his true beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 05:51 PM

If Kerry was saying that it is less educated people who are more likely to be be naive enough to enlist in the American (or in any) military and end up in a foreign war somewhere, wishing they were somewhere else....he was only stating something which has been true ever since the US military existed...not just presently in Iraq.

Poor neighborhoods with disadvantaged, poorly educated people are an ideal recruiting ground for the military. They always have been, they always will be, and not just in the USA.

That is not tantamount to saying that everyone who serves in the military is stupid.

Kerry just didn't handle the way he said it right, evidently, but no matter how he said it (whether he was referring to George Bush or to American soldiers) it would contain more than a smidgin of truth.

And it would not be unpatriotic, just realistic.

Kerry should know, being a politician, that it is dangerous to state any truth openly on a media outlet without sugar-coating it so it doesn't offend anyone. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:05 PM

Yes, stop voting for rich white boys, poor white boys, rich black boys, poor black boys and vote for women. Men have made a mess of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:06 PM

george bush and military cadence are at the bottom of this page in advertising. Max, what the hell's going on? Mind the store.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:30 PM

Actually, what Kerry said, is probably correct...

Reminds me of a history professor I had in college, Dr. Rogers, who was also the head of the department... Well, Doctor Rogers had been teaching so long that his lectures were to him something that he could do in his sleep and he rarely deviated from the way he had given them for years and years but...

...I was taking History of the South from him and the class was in an old building and the room had one of those wallpaper maps of the world down one entire wall...

One thing that Doctor Rogers would do 3 times per class was ask a question to see if folks were payin' attention and there was this one fellow who was sittin' right next to the wall where the map was and, oh BTW, this was like 1969...

So Doctor Rogers called on this poor guy to answer the question and the the poor guy didn't have a clue what the answer was and said, "I'm sorry, but I don't know" to which Doctor Rogers, without missin' a beat responded...

..."Well, Mr. Smith, you maybe closer to Southeast Asia than you think" as everyone in the class looked over at this poor kid and noticed that he was seated right next to Viet Nam...

This, unfortunately, was a true story then as it is a true story now as the folks who get shot up in wars are unporportionately under-educated...

Now, as for the flap???

Yeah, this may get a few more folks to the polls but by Tuesday, given that Kerry has apologized, it probably won't change anyone's mind...

All we are seeing here is Karl Rove tryin' one of his old tricks in demonizing the opposition... Like what is new here... That's all that Karl Rove has in his one-trick-pony playbook... The difference is that folks are as tired of Karl Roveas they are of Bush's policies so, MO...

...turn the radio up 'cause the Dems should be alot more worried about the folks countin' the votes than anything that John Kerry has or will say...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Old Guy
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:34 PM

I Demand the immediate resignation of J. F. Kerry as well as the resginations of all Democrats who knew about his plans to insult our troops in Iraq and kept it a secret form the American public.

What an outrage. But it is typical of the Democratic malicious mind set that we all have to put up with against our wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Peace
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:48 PM

LOL

The real deal is this: Bush is going to be investigated at the behest of a Democrat House of Reps. That has GOT to hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 06:50 PM

Chris Wallace, not Mike.

Yeah, poor Mike, another case where a smear of the truth was a total success for the Bush family.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:10 PM

Kerry is an idiot. He could have immediately stated that he tried to tell a joke but it went bad. He could have apologized to the troops in Iraq and the American people. Then he could have asked when baby bush intended to come clean on his Iraq gaff.
A priceless opportunity missed.
According to tonight's news he has cancelled several appearances. The Democrats are treating him like a pariah.
The presidential candidate field is narrowing already.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:13 PM

On the question of IQ:

Two men live side by side. One man has an expensive John Deere power mower with all the attachments. The other has a lowly, inexpensive hand-push job. Guess whose yard looks like a golf course and whose looks like a jungle?

It's one thing having the tools. Whether or not you use them is another matter.

By the way GUEST, I would suggest you take a long walk and cool off. I know of a short pier I could reccmmend

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM

Even Pat Buchanan got the joke, and it was clearly aimed at Bush. If he had been aiming at the troops, he would have said, "SENT" to Iraq.

Let's face it, the republicans are so desperate they will grab at a straw.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:33 PM

That response from Kerry that katlaughing posted was actually pretty eloquent and forceful.   Clearly the man should leave out the punch lines, which aren't his strong point, and concentrate on getting in the punches instead. And not waste any time making apologies which aren't needed.

To save chasing back through the thread for it:

"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men. And this time it won't work because we're going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq."

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: number 6
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:39 PM

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. "

Leave it to dumb ass Bush. No, Kerry isn't the only rich white boy politician born with a silver foot in his mouth.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: fumblefingers
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:43 PM

John F. Kerry's testimony before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 22, 1971.

"... they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

I heard Kerry both times. He didn't "botch" a joke. His handlers came up with that after the fact. He forgot he wasn't speaking to the sons and daughters of his wealthy fellow travelers, but rather merely the great ribald riff-raff (ordinary people). Democrats ought to lock him away.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:50 PM

Thanks, Kat, for posting Kerry's response to the pack of howling jackals, and to Kevin for re-posting it. I'd say Kerry put it right were it belongs.

Not that said jackals won't keep right on howling.

(My sincerest apologies to genuine four-footed jackals)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 07:54 PM

I notice here that Old Guy didn't challenge my statement that the undereducated are the ones comin' home in coffins...

Guess that means Old Guy agrees with Kerry...

Bobert

(Now ya see the way the Rove game is played, Oldster??? Too late now... Just like Kerry's apology... What do either of these things have to do with anything??? Yer rigth.....

...nuthin...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:06 PM

High school graduation rates in the US...

               this may come as s shock to some...but...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:24 PM

Is fumblefingers saying that Kerry's testimony to that Senate Commmittee back in 1971 was not the truth? Or that it was the kind of truth that he ought to have kept quiet about?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:41 PM

The Republicans have to jump on anything they can to try to draw attention away for the pig's breakfast they've made of everything. As far as any real arguments are concerned, and especially with The Embarrassment that occupies the White House, they got nuthin'!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 08:57 PM

That is shocking, pdq!

Well, one thing about war is that it keeps the under-educated and under-employed off the streets. If you can't find a job with wages good enough to support a family, the military is always an option.

Kerry was right, regardless of how it was presented. Its time somebody told America to wake up. Either support educational opportunities or send your kids to war.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:12 PM

Well put, d-van, an' exactly what I've been sayin'...

Lotta folk, like Old Guy and his buds, don't like to face reality but in the words of Walter Cronkite, this "Is the way it is"... And it's purdy much the way it's been...

Jesus even talked about it when he observed that wars are started by the folks (or their kids) that won't end up fighting in 'um... Jesus called them "hypocrits"...

Yeah, some things just don't change... Here we have a bunch of hypocrits who have started a war fro nuthin' more than political reasons and these chickenhawks are now in front of every TV camera denouncing a man who didn't hide wheh his number was called...

If anything, Kerry, having called this one the way it is should have had the courage to say, "Excuse me, Mr. Bush, but where were you when I was gettin' shot at in Nam" instead of apologizin'....

That's my take...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:17 PM

That would be a reasonable assumption but it is not true. The US military has 95% high school graduates (including some GDE). The article I linked to shows that only 71% of high schoolers graduate, at least that was true in 1998. There is no way for that figure to have gone up in the last 8 years. Repeat: US military 95%, generakl population 71%. The Black and Hispanic folks who make it in the military are on the upper end of their respective groups.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:23 PM

Hey, lets get real here, folks....

You all ever look at the age of the folks coming home in body bags???? 19 years olds... 20 year olds...

These kids got college degrees????

These kids ever been to college???

Hell no, they haven't...

Any of you folks ever look at the casualty reports??? They're in the Washington Post every week...

I rest my case...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: number 6
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:24 PM

Don't forget many have joined the military because they want to study ... get a post 2nd education through the GI Bill ... without out it there would be no chance for them to obtain a university education due to the high cost.

Kerry was wrong, regardless. That statement was insensitive to the many of the wounded and maimed Iraq vets, it was insensitive to the parents and loved ones of the casualties. I also question the time it took him to apologize.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:36 PM

My last response was to dianavan's post.

number 6...a few more reasonable folks like you could improve the current hostile atmosphere at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:40 PM

Bush & Kerry's IQs both in the 120s? That really is alarming! Surely the potential leaders of the most powerful country in the world ought to be more intelligent than that.

Anyone know Tony B. Liar's? My guess would be about 135. To be able to lie that well you have to be really on the ball with all the lies you have told before.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:45 PM

But think of the fun we are all having because Kerry invented the internet. No, wait, that was the last guy. Never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 09:53 PM

There are things that are important. The subject of this thread isn't one of them... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:42 PM

For something which is worthy of reading, if not discussion, please read first-hand, how veterans of Iraq and their families feel/have experienced/are speaking out about the mess Bush has made: click here. Scroll down and read...it doesn't matter a damn whether any of the kids had high school diplomas, GEDs or anything else. What matters is, in many cases, they were lured with all kinds of sales pitches (see the one about the twins and their friend whose recuiter coached him on dieting so they could sign him up) into an immoral, disgusting, undemocratic civil war umpteen thousand miles away. They are cannon fodder, all.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:32 AM

GWB's IQ is 92 from what I read (where I can't remember). It's the lowest yet & half of Bill Clinton's. Georgie's father was 2nd lowest, somewhere around 97 or 8. Below average, both of them. But I'm not going back to re-search this. It was well known during the last election.

120 HaHaHaHaHa.

Why his brain is so small when you shake him it rattles like a BB in a boxcar.

The guy can't even tie his shoe without putting his foot up his ass, he has has at best 600 word vocab, leagally shouldn't be licensed to drive a taxi never mind something airbourne (hipcup) & design a roadmap for the Middle East, the guy can't navigate a course past a barroom door.


120 HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

Bush to Kerry. Pleeaaasssseeeee. Now we know one can't tell a joke, big deal. The other we know is a joke.
Here come the Swift Boat Foot Soldiers paddling down the river again with not so much as an oar between them. You all keep right on holding one up against the other, which is a sight to behold. Who's the one that F%#ked up everything & who's the one that called him on it.

120 HaHaHaHaHaHaHa

This year's campain is looking a bit silly the closer we get. One joke gone bad & the country's focused on the uproar. I guess we must be sitting real pretty if it's all about this. Might as well sell the farm, lock up the shop & deep six the reast if this is what it all comes down to.

Jokes on us all.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Old Guy
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:27 AM

Add John Kerry's presidential hopes to the Iraq war death toll.

Commander in Chief of the dumb ass, stuck in Iraq Military?

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa Ha

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST,Who started the thread
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 08:15 AM

Old Guy, in my book, you win the title "dumb ass for the Republican right" here at Mudcat.

Kerry is an insensitive, arrogant, out of touch, inside the Beltway, rich white guy idiot. He was thus in 2004, and this latest sign of idiocy shows he hasn't evolved one iota.

While I'm no fan of the military, I do see what he said as an insult to the troops, and as I said earlier, an insult that reveals his true thinking in that in vino veritas sort of way.

Now, do I think his well-publicized by the right wing mean machine gaffe will have any effect on the outcome of any election? No. He isn't running for anything (although I think he is a great candidate for global village idiot), so the voters have no reason to tie him to their local races. Of course, Rove, et al are so desperately grasping at straws and strawmen, that this will likely be the "October surprise" of the right wing mean machine to swift boat us all over again.

Thing is, the planet sure as shit didn't need John F. Kerry to be at the helm of the swift boat, handing the October surprise to Rove on a silver platter.

I have the same burning hatred of Bush, et al as any true blue Dem. But I also have the same burning hatred of Kerry and the DLC.

Be forewarned Democratic apologists: any victories next week will NOT be about America turning to you for leadership, because you haven't shown a drop of leadership potential, and the lot of you are knee deep in the blood of Iraq.

And America knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:32 AM

Insult, schminsult. You either understood what he said, or you were thick about it. In the latter case all bets are off because once you misunderstand something ANY interpretation (or at least a very large number of them) is possible based on your own brand of thickery.

Making insults out of the ordinary is par for the course in Rovelandia. But if you heard Kerry -- even with the fumble -- the joke wasplain to anyone with the wits to understand it. This is just brouhaha made to order for political gain.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:20 PM

Another true blue apologist for Kerry. Kerry screwed up. It really is that simple. The Republican right wing mean machine is doing it's utmost to exploit his screw up.

People like the true blue apologists for Kerry aren't doing the Democrats any favors by continuing to claim he did nothing wrong.

Which is why we have more and more political independents every election. People are tired of Democrats and Republicans talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:30 PM

Barry Finn,

Get some oxygen, quick! Your brain cell is in danger of serious injury.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:37 PM

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm


http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/iqhoaxes.htm


http://www.csbsju.edu/uspp/Bush/Bush-IQ-Myth.html

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:52 PM

and for some less suspect values...
http://www.my-iqtest.com/

Abraham Lincoln Former President USA 128
Adolf Hitler Nazi leader Germany 141
Al Gore Politician USA 134
Albert Einstein Physicist USA 160
Albrecht von Haller Medical scientist Switzerland 190
Alexander Pope Poet/writer England 180
Andrew J. Wiles Mathematician England 170
Andrew Jackson Former President USA 123
Andy Warhol Pop artist USA 86
Anthonis Van Dyck Artist Belgium 155
Arnauld Theologian France 190
Arne Beurling Mathematician Sweden 180
Arnold Schwarzenegger Actor Austria/USA 135
Baruch Spinoza Philosopher Holland 175
Benjamin Franklin Writer/scientist/politician USA 160
Benjamin Netanyahu Israeli Prime Minister Israel 180
Bill Clinton Former President USA 137
Bill Gates CEO, Microsoft USA 160
Blaise Pascal Mathematician/religious philosopher France 195
Bobby Fischer Chess Champion USA 187
Bonaparte Napoleon Emperor France 145
Buonarroti Michelangelo Artist/poet/architect Italy 180
Carl von Linné Botanist Sweden 165
Charles Darwin Naturalist England 165
Charles Dickens Writer England 180
Christopher Langan Bouncer/scientist/philosopher USA 195
David Hume Philosopher/politician Scotland 180
Dolph Lundgren Actor Sweden 160
Donald Byrne Chess Player Ireland 170
Dr David Livingstone Explorer/doctor Scotland 170
Emanuel Swedenborg Scientist/philosopher/mystic Sweden 205
Felix Mendelssohn Composer Germany 165
Friedrich Hegel Philosopher Germany 165
Friedrich von Schelling Philosopher Germany 190
Galileo Galilei Physicist/astronomer/philosopher Italy 185
Garry Kasparov Chess player Russia 190
Geena Davis Actress USA 140
George Berkeley Philosopher Ireland 190
George H. Choueiri A.C.E Leader Lebanon 195
George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans) Writer England 160
George Friedrich Händel Composer Germany 170
George Sand Writer France 150
George W. Bush President USA 125
George Washington President USA 118
Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz Philosopher Germany 205
H. C. Anderson Writer Denmark 145
Hillary Clinton Ex-President's wife/senator USA 140

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:54 PM

Jayne Mansfield Actor USA 149
Jean M. Auel Writer Canada 140
Jodie Foster Actor USA 132
Johann Sebastian Bach Composer Germany 165
Johann Strauss Composer Germany 170
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Composer Germany 210
Johannes Kepler Mathematician/physicist/astronomer Germany 175
John Adams President USA 137
John F. Kennedy Ex-President USA 117
John H. Sununu Chief of Staff for President Bush USA 180
John Locke Philosopher England 165
John Quincy Adams President USA 153
John Stuart Mill Universal Genius England 200
Jola Sigmond Teacher Sweden 161
Jonathan Swift Writer/theologian England 155
Joseph Haydn Composer Austria 160
Joseph Louis Lagrange Mathematician/astronomer Italy/France 185
Judith Polgar Chess player Hungary 170
Kim Ung-Yong Smartest person alive today Korea 200
Leonardo da Vinci Universal Genius Italy 220
Lord Byron Poet/writer England 180
Ludwig van Beethoven Composer Germany 165
Ludwig Wittgenstein Philosopher Austria 190
Madame De Stael Novelist/philosopher France 180
Madonna Singer USA 140
Marilyn Vos Savant Writer USA 186
Martin Luther Theorist Germany 170

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:56 PM

"BUSH GETS A BAD RAP ON INTELLIGENCE

By Aubrey Immelman

A week from today, the sun will rise on the second Bush presidency in a generation, in what for some may be a day of trepidation. Does Bush the Younger have what it takes to lead the nation in the new millennium?

It's a question that transcends concerns about George W. Bush's conservatism or a path to power marred by youthful indiscretions. It's not about ideology or character; it's a question of cognitive capacity.

The Spanish physician Juan Huarte in 1575 proposed one of the earliest recorded definitions of intelligence: learning ability, imaginativeness and good judgment. Undoubtedly, the mantle of the modern U.S. presidency imposes a steep learning curve and demands vision, wisdom and discretion.

Equally clear is this: Sheer intellectual brilliance does not cut it in the Oval Office.

In terms of brute brainpower, the smartest postwar presidents were Richard Nixon, a Duke Law School graduate with a reported IQ of 143; Jimmy Carter, who graduated in the top 10 percent of his Naval Academy class; and Rhodes scholar Bill Clinton, a graduate of Georgetown University and Yale Law School. Deeply flawed presidencies all, despite their potential.

In contrast, take high school graduate Harry Truman — railroad worker, clerk, bookkeeper, farmer, road inspector and small-town postmaster — or Ronald Reagan, sports announcer and B-list actor with mediocre college credentials.

Despite their intellectual limitations, both achieved substantial political success as president. And, to press home the point, there is Franklin D. Roosevelt, a top-tier president in rankings of historical greatness, whom the late Supreme Court justice Oliver Wendell Holmes branded "a second-rate intellect but a first-class temperament."

Huarte's notion of intelligence comprises a mix of mental acumen and emotional discernment that provides a sound foundation for modern-day presidential success.

To put it bluntly, the president need not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he does need a full deck of cards. He must be comfortable in his own skin, free of emotional demons, and surround himself with competent people. With apologies to Saturday Night Live's Stuart Smalley, the successful president need not be a towering giant, he just needs to be good enough, smart enough — and, doggone-it, people must like him.

George W. Bush can be likable and charming. But, as the New York Times pondered in a front-page article on June 19, 2000, "is he smart enough to be president?"

Unlike John F. Kennedy, who obtained an IQ score of 119, or Al Gore, who achieved scores of 133 and 134 on intelligence tests taken at the beginning of his high school freshman and senior years, no IQ data are available for George W. Bush. But we do know that the young Bush registered a score of 1206 on the SAT, the most widely used test of college aptitude. (The more cerebral Al Gore obtained 1355.)

Statistically, Bush's test performance places him in the top 16 percent of prospective college students — hardly the mark of a dimwit. Of course, the SAT is not designed as an IQ test. But it is highly correlated with general intelligence, to the tune of .80. In plain language, the SAT is two parts a measure of general intelligence and one part a measure of specific scholastic reasoning skills and abilities.

If Bush could score in the top 16 percent of college applicants on the SAT, he would almost certainly rank higher on tests of general intelligence, which are normed with reference to the general population. But even if his rank remained constant at the 84th-percentile level of his SAT score, it would translate to an IQ score of 115.

It's tempting to employ Al Gore's IQ:SAT ratio of 134:1355 as a formula for estimating Bush's probable intelligence quotient — an exercise in fuzzy statistics that predicts a score of 119. If the number sounds familiar, it's precisely the IQ score attributed to Kennedy, whom Princeton political scientist Fred Greenstein, in "The Presidential Difference," commended as "a quick study, whose wit was an indication of a subtle mind."

As a final clue to Bush's cognitive capacity, consider data from Joseph Matarazzo's leading text on intelligence and the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth: The average IQ is about 105 for high school graduates, 115 for college graduates and 125 for people with advanced professional degrees. With his MBA from Harvard Business School, it's not unreasonable to assume that Bush's IQ surpasses the 115 of the average bachelor's-degree-only college graduate.

George W. Bush has often been underestimated. Almost certainly, he's received a bad rap on the count of cognitive capacity. Indications are that, in the arena of mental ability, Bush is in the same league as John F. Kennedy, who graduated 65th in his high-school class of 110 and, in the words of one biographer, "stumbled through Latin, French, mathematics, and English but made respectable marks in physics and history."

The feisty, sometimes-irreverent Bush's mental acuity may lack a little of the sharpness of his tongue, but plainly it is sharp enough. The real test for the president-elect will be whether he possesses the emotional intelligence — the triumph of reason over rigidity and restraint over impulse — to steer the course."


Aubrey Immelman is a political psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at the College of St. Benedict and St. John's University. You may write to him in care of the St. Cloud Times, P.O. Box 768, St. Cloud, MN 56302.
 

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 03:42 PM

Seems to me they could all use a little cowboy advice, politicians and the media alike:

"Don't worry about bitin' off more'n you can chew; your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger'n you think." -Unknown

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:22 PM

I studied the list you linked to, bb. Just where and from what sources do they get these figures? Abraham Lincoln? Galileo? Da Vinci? Hmmmmm?

I notice that they've got Paul Allen and Bill Gates both pegged at 160. How often do business partners rank at the same intellectual level?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:27 PM

How do you get an accurate test score for someone who died hundreds of years before the test was ever invented?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:32 PM

"Andy Warhol Pop artist USA 86 "

I had heard that before ... a genius he certainly was, and I sincerely do believe it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 05:41 PM

Not if he is judged by a score of 86. Might they have dropped a 100?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 05:57 PM

I bet Andy "yanked some chains" with that.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:06 PM

According to Wikipedia, the first intelligence tests were designed around the beginning of the 20th century.

Which makes one wonder how, exactly, da Vinci might have gotten hands on it...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 06:24 PM

"and for some less suspect values...
http://www.my-iqtest.com/ "

Does not take less to be less suspect than the "facts" some insist on posting here...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:39 PM

I.Q. = B.S.

Most teachers or former teachers, of which I am, will tell you that... They don't mean jack other than how one person did on a particular test on a particular day...

No, real intellegence is guaged more on what folks do in life... Some folks who were thought to have low I.Q.'s go on to do very well and other folks who have supposedly high I.q's can't figure much out at all...

George Bush falls into that later category... He has failed or done poorly at everything that he has attempted to do... He was virtually given a baseball team which he couldn't run properly... Then he was given an oil company which he ran into the ground... He signed up for the Texas Air National Guard and we know what happened there...

So it should come as no surprise that he is failing badly in his cuurent job which, BTW, like Harkin E#nergy and the Texas Rangers, was given to him...

Now having said this, does this make John Kerry a friggin' genius??? Nah, Kerry is probably a little more honest but not any smarter... Had both these guys been born into middle class families they would be like the guy who runs the local tire company...

Probably would have been better if both of them had been born into the middle class as, IMO, both have had a "pass" in life...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: fumblefingers
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:46 PM

IQ is more a measure of capacity and potential than anything else. It has little to do with what someone accomplishes or what kind of grades they got in school.

Oh, Bobert. Bush learned to fly a jet fighter in the Texas Air National Guard.

From what you say about his dealings with Harkin and the Texas Rangers baseball club, you know only what you've read on the hate blogs about him. He isn't dumb and he is a decent man.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 12:28 AM

Bush is a "decent man". Yeah, right--just one who started an unnecessary war--by choice, and by a despicable propaganda campaign--and is therefore responsible for all the deaths that have resulted from that war.

He belongs in the lowest circle of Hell. That's how "decent" he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 12:38 AM

Ease up, Ron. He started the war at the behest of his friends. I'm sure that had he not been the CEO of the USA when the war started, he'd have volunteered to go. Just as he did during the Vietnam War. Yep. Ease up, Ron.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 12:41 AM

You're right, Peace. He did after all fight in Vietnam--in a battle so obscure nobody has ever heard of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 02:36 AM

Bobert - 02 Nov 06 - 07:39 PM

"...real intellegence is guaged more on what folks do in life... Some folks who were thought to have low I.Q.'s go on to do very well and other folks who have supposedly high I.q's can't figure much out at all...

George Bush falls into that later category... He has failed or done poorly at everything that he has attempted to do... He was virtually given a baseball team which he couldn't run properly... Then he was given an oil company which he ran into the ground... He signed up for the Texas Air National Guard and we know what happened there...

So it should come as no surprise that he is failing badly in his cuurent job which, BTW, like Harkin E#nergy and the Texas Rangers, was given to him..."

All of the above are Bobert Facts, i.e. they are incorrect, totally inaccurate and poorly presented (Bobert can't even get them in their correct chronological order).

Harkin Energy was given to GWB? No it wasn't Bobert, Harkin Energy bought out the small independent company that GWB had formed with his own money. Part of the deal was that GWB stayed with Harkin and was given stock in Harkin. Judge for yourselves people was this a success or failure - GWB made money on the deal, and kept himself employed. Harkin went after a contract that was outwith its core business expertise, GWB raised his objections to it and when the decision to proceed was taken he voted with his stock and his feet and left. The money realised, he invested in the Texas Rangers - nothing was "given". By the way Bobert, GWB at no time "ran" the team, he invested in it, there is a great difference. By the time he sold his stock in the Texas Rangers, he had again doubled or tripled his investment - as a business venture success, or failure people?

As for the time spent in the Texas Air National Guard. Yes Bobert, we do indeed, "know what happened there". Lt G. W. Bush qualified operational on the F-102A Delta Dagger All Weather Interceptor Fighter, a type of aircraft that was notoriously "difficult" to fly (Around 750 of these aircraft were built, 24% of those aircraft crashed, very few were lost in combat). He was regarded by his training officers as being in the top 5% of the programme.

The relative IQ's, Bush's detractors here on this forum depict him as being dumb, low IQ, brain cell like a ball-bearing rattling around in a freight car. Yet they also state (Ron Davies) that he was responsible for deliberate lies and numerous deceptions that led to the war in Iraq. Sorry guys you can't have it both ways. I realise that what follows is an over-simplification but I feel that it applies in a broadbrush sort of way. To tell the truth at all times requires no effort, no intelligence, it requires little or no thought. To tell a lie in such a way that that lie can be sold as credible, and be sustained, on the otherhand, requires a great deal of effort. It requires a great deal of intelligence, it requires phenominal memory and total recall with regard to context - So which is it folks?

The other great misrepresentation that has been voiced on this thread (by Ron Davies) with regard to GWB - GWB is identified as the person, "...who started an unnecessary war--by choice, and by a despicable propaganda campaign--and is therefore responsible for all the deaths that have resulted from that war." Is Ron attempting to sell the idea that in all of what happened that Saddam Hussein was blameless? Iraq as a threat to the interests of the United States of America, to the stability of the region and the to the security of allies of the United States of America in the region, because of Iraq's non-compliance with UN Security Council Resolutions agreed to by Iraq at Safwan was established during the Clinton's second term. The adoption of, and stated foreign policy of the USA with regard to the desireability of "Regime Change in Iraq" was set during the second term of the Clinton Administration. It was not the sole idea of GWB and did not commence in 2000.

GWB won the 2000 Presidential election - ask Al Gore and the Democratic Party, they conceded.

GWB certainly won the 2004 Presidential election, so again Bobert, nothing was "given" to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 07:32 AM

Danged, T-Bird... Glad to see you made parole... Where ya' been???

Ahhhhh, perhaps seein' as you the holder-of-all-truths (evidenced by your assertions before the Iraq invasion of your belief that Saddam had WMDs) perhaps you'd like to tell the peanutr gakllery where exactly George Bush got his "own money"???

And while you are elucidating perhaps you'd like to explain why it was that Bush took $700,000 out of Harkin just months before Harkin revealed that it was in serious finacial trouble??? Or why the SEC looked the other way??? Isn't this kinda what Ken Lay did???

And I didn't say that Bush was dumb did I??? I just pointed out that he has not performed very well in life... Learning to fly a dumb plane isn't a benchmark of intellegence... Heck, I could fly a joy-stick taildragger before I was 10 years old... BTW, I don't have a clue what my "supposed I.Q." is... All I know is that my teachers were always disappointed in me because I didn't much enjoy school and told my parents that with my "supposed I.Q. that I should have been doing better... But that was before folks unde3rstood what lexdeia is all about... Nevermind me... This is about yer hero's life and his yer hero's failures...

Now I'll await the answers to the question I have put forth about just where Bush ****e3arned**** his "own money"...

Did I say, "Welcome Back"???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: pdq
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:31 AM

The Iraq conflict was George W. Bush's idea? It was pre-emptive? Bush made up reasons? Not true. Here is a post from Mudcat's cheif authority on everything, dated 1998:


"Subject: RE:
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 03:34 PM

Interesting discourse here. Ewan, I too value and am enlightened by your thread postings. To all, while I am not in total agreement with any of the sentiments (big surprise, eh?), I would like to hear some opinions on the following premises. We know that Saddam is committed to gaining an edge in the MidEast. We know that he produces chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. We know he uses them against neighbors, and his own citizens. We know, based on the oilfield fires, that he has no problem with harming the environment. It is apparent from the above postings, what you are against. Time for the other side of the coin. I would like to hear what you would do with this man. Do we live and let live, given what he has done in the past? Do we just trust that he would live within his borders, and at peace with his neighbors?

Despite the tone of the above comments, I want to make it clear that I have not really developed much of a position on this issue. I am torn by both sides. I know what you are against, what I am interested in is what would your thoughts be on dealing with despots.

All the best,

Mick "

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:39 AM

Well, we KNEW GWBush has some good advisors...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:06 PM

Give it a rest, Bush apologists. Who invaded Iraq in March 2003, starting the Iraq war, which is still going on? Caspar the Friendly Ghost?

Your arguments are even more pathetic than ever.

I have stated more than once that I thought the US should have funded groups--within Iraq--who would seek to topple Saddam. And that when he was caught, he should have been handed over immediately to the Kurds--who, I suspect, would know what to do with him.

Neither you nor anybody else has ever provided justification for the Iraq invasion.

I repeat--for starting an unnecessary war, by choice, and by a despicable propaganda campaign, Bush belongs in the lowest circle of Hell.

And I am a registered Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:08 PM

But welcome back, Teribus--what kept you so long?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:33 PM

The Daily show said it best. They showed the "BAD" jokes of GWB,
"Oops, no WMD's here, oops no WMD's there, oh well at least we got Saddam"
joke as told by GWB at WHPC dinner.

oops 30,000 maimed US troops, Oops 3 or 4 dead US troops a day, oops nearly a million Iraqis killed, oops depleted uranium caused a few birth defects for the next 50,000 years.

oops, we aren't supposed to mention that.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 02:57 PM

And perhaps you Bushites know the location of the battle GWB fought in Vietnam--as I said, it's so top secret that as far as I know, nobody's ever heard of it.

Kerry, on the other hand fought bravely in Vietnam, in engagements which have been proven to exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 06:05 PM

And here's yet another angle I'd like for you Bushites to ponder... Yeah, you say that you had bad intellegence... Well, okay, there was a former chief weapon's inspector, Scott Ritter, who was criss-crossin' the country during the sellin' of the invasion who was sayin', "Hey, wait just a dog gobne minute here folks. This stuff that Bush is saying is wrong"...

Then there were the tens of millions of folks around the world in the streets yellin' "Hell no"...

Then there was Hnas Blix who in January said, "The Iraqi's are cooperating with the inspections"...

But, hey, now all the revisionists don't want to talk about that... They just want to say, "bad intellegence, bad intellegence, bad intellegence" as if that gives them a pass in their complicity and their partisanship...

To those of you who fall into that category, and you know who you are, you were wrong then and in your continued support for this war you are wrong today... And probably worse than just being wrong then and now is that you know you were and are wrong yet you continue to act as if you aren't...

Upwards of 600,000 dead and a complete quagmire and destabilized region??? How can any man defend this???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 02:30 AM

I know that it is inconvenient Bobert, due to your selective memory of events, but UN Security Council Resolution 1441 was passed unanimously because every member sitting on the Council at that time fully believed the following to be true in part or in toto:

1. Iraq still possessed WMD
2. Iraq still possessed the means to manufacture WMD
3. Iraq was still pursuing programmes intent on further developing it's WMD capability
4. Iraq had not complied with the requirements of previous UNSC Resolutions relating to verifiable disarmament as agreed at Safwan

Now what information led those people sitting on the UN Security Council and their respective governments to vote the way they did? The primary source of intelligence that indicated that Iraq still possessed WMD and the capability to produce WMD was the contents of the UNSCOM Report presented to the UN Security Council in January 1999. Two people mentioned by Bobert in his post were authors/contributors to this report - Scott Ritter and Dr. Hans Blix.

It was the contents of that UN Report that provided the world-wide belief that Iraq still possessed WMD, not anything said by either George W Bush, or by Tony Blair, who were only given what their respective security and intelligence agencies believed to be the case. That couples intelligence information to situation assessment in an attempt to predict future potential threat. US post 911, any administration would have had great difficulty explaining why any other than worst case scenario should be looked at.

While Scott Ritter may have suffered a change of mind between his last visit to Iraq and 2002, Hans Blix most certainly did not. Reading through the reports presented to the UNSC in the run up to the events of late March 2003 at no time at all does Dr. Hans Blix EVER state that the UNMOVIC inspection teams are receiving the full pro-active co-operation of the Iraqi authorities (A keystone requirement under the terms of UNSCR 1441 from day one). Of course under certain circumstances in individual instances the Iraqi Authorities did co-operate, i.e. normally when they had no other choice (example: After the UNMOVIC discovery of 384 recently imported rocket motors that should never have been there in the first place).

As to learning to fly Bobert, I agree, it requires no great amount of intelligence, I went solo in a "a joy-stick taildragger" de Havilland Chipmunk, after about seven hours of instruction. But while I could walk up to the aircraft, climb into it, take-off, fly round and then land it, there is absolutely no way that I would lay any claim as to being able to "fly" the aircraft. Now Lt. G. W. Bush of the Texas National Air Guard did rather more than that didn't he Bobert? He didn't just learn to fly a supersonic, all-weather interceptor, he learned to fight the aircraft, qualifying as being operational in the top 5% of his intake on type. Now that Bobert, takes a bit of doing, now if for whatever reason you cannot, I for one would give the man a bit of credit for the accomplishment.

Ron regarding this so called Vietnam combat experience do you have any sources, or is this just another baseless slander?

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 03:04 AM

Teribus-

You need to develop a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 08:47 AM

Wrong again, T-Bird... Try Googling Blix'a speech to the UN on Jna. 28 (okay maybe it was the 27th) and read the entire report... Maybe you'd like to put up a link to it so folks can judge for themselves rather than have you do your usual ***procalmations***...

Then after you have done this you just might have 2nd thought on why Bush felt he had to pull the plug on the inspections...

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: GUEST,Beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 06:08 PM

Bobert,

As I have said before...


"Wrong again, Bobert... Try Googling Blix'a written report to the UN and READ the entire report"


Blix states he is NOT getting the cooperation that would allow him to determine the truth of the Iraqi reply ( to the UN), but that there are known discrepancies that still require explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: Leave it to dumb ass Kerry...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 07:48 PM

Don't make me Google the speech again, BB... We've allready been here a couple years ago and I went thru the trouble of fightin' this one out and your side was wrong, wrong, wrong then an' if you really think it's all that important, I'll reluctantly Google it agin and we can refight a battle that your side lost last time...

Geeze....

No, forget it... I'm standin' on what I said... You Google it... I think the speech was January 27th, 28th or 29th to the UN but, heck, It could have been Feburary 27th, 28th or 29th... It was just before the invasion... I'm not wasting my time with reruns here... Especially since your side was the one that was wrong last time...

Yeah, Google the speech and then put a link with the ****entire**** speech and we can have it...

Okay???

Good...

Bobert