Am I too old to learn?

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 10:51 AM

Am I too old to learn, and you're only 48 !!!!!

Good grief !! you could live for another 40 years yet !

so get cracking with whatever you wanna do NOW

-no one knows how long they have got, but you just MAY live it all

go to it -jo-jo

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Alice
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 10:58 AM

Shiamsa, I'm trying to understand your point of view. How old are you?

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,PattyClink
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 11:20 AM

Traditionally, the best fiddlers are middle-age to geezer-age. It was like the golf of the agricultural age. As time passed, you had more time to putter on your fiddle and more time to visit friends and swap tunes. The point being, it is in the tradition to spend time with an instrument later in life, so don't feel like you're 'behind'.

That said, fiddle is one of the hardest instruments around because you're doing 3 things at once (fingering without the help of frets, bowing notes, and bowing them in such a way that the sound is pleasant). So if you love the sound of the melodeon more, go with that!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 11:27 AM

You are never too old to start a new musical enterprise. When I lost my voice and a part of my lungs I ended my career as a choir singer and brass bass player. I sulked for some years, and then I joined our firemen's band, triangle first, then the big drum, and at 50 years of age I started to learn the snare drum. I worked hard, got some training courses, and shortly before my 63th birthdayI qualified for drum instructor. So I am teaching a drum band earning a little money besides for my beer.
What is wrong with the whistle? Try and practise - it is wonderful to play and not so heavy to carry. When you notice that your fingers are agile enough then you can also start learning to fiddle. (I for my part won't do it, for me the fret about the fiddle are the missing frets). Also keep in mind that the first purpose is the joy you are feeling when you play, maybe with some good friends. But don't forget the three prerequisites you need with everything you want to do well:
1. practice, 2. practice, 3. practice (so I was told by my old seargent).

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 01:12 PM

Wilifried, you surely have the right recipe!

There are a couple of hitches to the adult student of complete music-craft. Nothing could be more un-intuitive than bowing a Violin, and nothing can equal the complications of playing two handed on Piano or similar. Wind family instruments require lots of planning but practice and time take care of most problems. ( I have mastered, even if badly, both home made Diatonic flutes and the pennywhistle. I must add, there is absolutely nothing that gives so much reward as playing a musical instrument you make! )

It is always a good rule of thumb to begin with some lessons. Later you can go off on your own, but to start nothing so well corrects time wasting mistakes in method as a teacher.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:16 PM

NO YOU'RE NOT AND NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Rowan
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:26 PM

Sorefingers is right about the value of a good teacher. Trouble is finding one if you're out bush somewhere or attempting an instrument that is uncommon. As the Anglo concer was when I started. Which brings me to a recollection about Northumbrian Small Pipes.

Selby, when Geoff Wooff arrived in Melbourne he played English concertina and NSPs; he didn't pick up Uillean pipes until much later (and there's another story, connected with his desire to make his own set of NSPs). I think his NSPs were made by Colin Ross but it was a long time ago; 30 years or so. Geoff told me that he'd ordered a set and had to wait quite some time for them to be made. At that time Geoff was working as a draughtsman, which involved quite a lot of sitting at a draughting table which partly concealed him. He learned the fingering patterns on the holes of the chanter from some diagrams he got from Colin and sat at his table (apparently "working") and just practised the fingering patterns of the various scales and tunes he wanted to play.

So, before he even laid hands on a set of pipes, he'd progressed considerably with the fingering; all he then had to learn (so to speak) was to cope with tuning everything and coordinating all the various parts of the body involved with playing it; no small feat in itself.

You could try this yourself. I hope it helps.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Scoville
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:06 PM

My father is already planning to take up banjo when he retires (no time until then). He's considerably older than 48 already and is several years away from retirement, so . . . no. Go for it.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:50 PM

If your aim in learning fiddle is to make Darol Anger stand in awe of your abilities, you're probably starting about forty years too late. However, if your goal isn't quite so lofty, any age at which you are still breathing is fine.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM

Be-dubya-ell, what a nickname, .... but seriously you have to be joking!

Two players that I love to listen to began later in life, Jim Mc Killop and Paddy Canny. Then what about Johny Keenan who grew up playing the pipes but sounded far far better on the banjo!

So it ain't about age, it never was. It is about 'ability', something totaly unrelated to age.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:42 PM

This year I was 55 - learning to sing from shaped notes and to play the three hole whistle.

Go for it - do it even if you do it badly, do it even if it seems you are not making progress, keep trying even if it seems impossible - because the alternative is not doing, and that can lead to not doing anything and that is going to lead nowhere.

Anne

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:50 PM

Maggie, here is a story I always have fun telling. This time I'll write it out and we'll see how it goes: two men are sitting on a park bench taking in the day and the sunshine. One of the gentlemen
finishes his newspaper, folds and tucks it away and starts a conversation with the man sitting next to him. After a few minutes of
chit-chat he asks the man what he does for a living. "Well, that's my problem," the man replied, "I've been retired now for six months and I just don't know what to do with myself anymore." "Hmmm..." said the
gentleman, "...that shouldn't be a problem - you can do anything you want to do; your time is all yours, now."

The other man replied, "Yeah, well, I'm too old to do anything now.
Surely you're retired; what do you do with all of your time?" "Me?"
responded the gentleman. "Yes, I'm retired - have been for some time
now, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it." The man then asked,"Well, no offense, but I am 65 years old and I do believe you're a few years older than I am - what DO you DO?" The gentleman laughed and looked at the man and said, "Yes, you're right, I am older than you; in fact, I'm 84 years old; and, as for what I do, well I do a variety of things but I do play a lot of tennis, and..." "Tennis? At your age?"
said the man. "Yep. In fact, I'm very proud to say that I won the United States Senior Tennis Championship this year."

"84 and you won a tennis championship? Geez, I've always wanted to learn to play tennis, but at my age it's just too late," the man stated glumly. "Too late?" said the gentleman, "Why you'd have to be playing for fifteen years before you even qualify to play in my age bracket - go get yourself a racket young man."

Maggie, you got it, right? Also since you sing, consider taking up an instrument you can accompany yourself with; but hey - get out there and do it. Cheers,................TG

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,pleasant plucker
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 07:29 PM

Might I advise you take up the harp? Wonderful to sing to, and very easy to get a beautiful sound from. Take up anything you like, but do it now & do it for yourself. Confidence is just something we all use to cover up the fact that we haven't got any, and musicianship is all about how well we make the inevitable mistakes. The vast majority of any audience is very much on your side and wants you to do well, and a 'folk' audience will generally respect you just for having a go - after all, you're the one that got up and did it, and they aren't.. Do it, and you'll inevitably get better at it.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Shiamsa
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:19 AM

Since some contributors (Alice, Paul, etc.) have failed to understand my point of view, I'll try to explain:

Assuming that the woman is married with a family, most of us are aware that an older woman's duty in life is firstly to her home and family (Titus 2:3 & 4). And if the woman has lead a virtuous life up to now, what consequences would the introduction of a musical instrument bring, particularly the difficult-to-master violin? Mastery of this instrument entails considerable practice on scales and bowing technique, which unless practiced outside the home (a moral danger in itself!) could rock the most solid marriage and/or drive husband and children out of the house.

Secondly, the time needed to practice could intrude on the older woman's obligation to "teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children", etc. They need lots of time to show them how to keep house and have the right spiritual and mental attitudes.

Even if the woman managed to get around the above and lead a sober life after learning the instrument, the next thing she would want, would be to risk playing with other musicians. There is a great danger to temperament, character, and mode of thought, to which such a lifestyle particularly exposes its followers, possibly leading to loose living, late nights, unserious behaviour and a general decay in morals. We all know how these folk-musicians behave!

No, stick to the straight and narrow path, forget the temptations of music, and content yourself with the purring of your kettle on the hob and the lilt of your sewing-machine in the corner.

Shiamsa

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Disgusted
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:41 AM

Shiamsa, you make me ashamed to be a member of this species.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Disgusted
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:45 AM

Unless you were joking, in which case I take my hat orf.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Shiamsa
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:55 AM

Well, as long as you don't accuse me of being facet...(it's a long word, I don't know what it means) like some of the others on this thread!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Rowan
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:58 AM

Selby,
In my haste I forgot to mention that Geoff sat at his draughting table with a ruler held in his hands the way a piper holds a chanter; this way he could 'finger' the correct 'notes' of a tune (which was audible only in his head) and still appear to casual observers to be working away at a drawing.

Disgusted Guest,
Of course Shiamsa was joking. Nobody who really believes that stuff would subscribe to Mudcat.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:46 AM

Yes selby, the other thing you need to work on is getting your ring fingers to co-operate - to move by themselves. This is easier said than done. It's surprising how stubborn they can be at first.
Sit at a table with all fingers down in front of you, fingertips touching the table. (Your thumbs can rest on the edge of the table and pretend to be hitting keys.) Now practice lifting the ring fingers without any other fingers coming up. Alternate left and right. Then keep practicing by moving the other fingers - lifting them one at a time and putting them down again before moving the next one. This is the basic closed fingering Northumbrian Smallpipe chanter technique! And you can sit and do it at work or at school, on a bus, on your knees, wherever you are. You don't even need a chanter to practice on.
Then when your pipes arrive, work on the co-ordination first - bellows/bag/elbows, and don't try the chanter fingering until that's sorted.
Good luck,
Robyn

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:10 AM

I hope Shiamsa is joking - but there are people who have taken seriously her line on music in the past, particularly here in Ireland.
In the first half of the 20th century many of the clergy went around breaking up crossroads and house dances, often forcibly.
One of our local singers, now in her 80s, had her ear-drum burst by a priest beating her round the head for taking part in a house dance.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:18 AM

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure."- Titus 2:15.

That means, if you're "pure", whatever that might be, fiddling's OK. If you're not, it will make no difference.

Go and get that fiddle, and get cracking.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:33 AM

YOu're never too old to learn the melodeon! I did a survey on Melodeon.Net and a fair percentage (25%?) were over 50 when they started. If they can do it so can you:-)

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:54 AM

Friend of mine took up the fiddle at age 50. That was two years ago and while he's not a virtuoso, he's able now to play along at the slower sessions and is improving. He enjoys himself immensely, and that's what's important. You're definitely not too old to learn!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:33 PM

I figure that Shiamsa is either wearing cap-and-bells or a straightjacket.

48 years old? "Older woman!???" Heck, Maggie, you're just a kid yet. Go forth and make music!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:49 PM

My answer to any prospective pupil of any age has always been this...

If you'd like to learn to play, you probably won't. If you've a burning need to play, nothing will stop you.

Simple, really.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:03 PM

It's nothing to do with age. If you are determined to learn an instrument you will. I had a guitar for my sixtieth birthday and never thought I would play it -but now I do.GO FOR IT.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:13 PM

theres a bloke down our street learning guitar at the age of 64

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Maggie
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

Well, borrowed a friends melodeon today, bought a tutor and a tutor cd and started to practice. I'd advise not booking me for a good few years but I enjoyed it and maybe that's the main thing. I've decided to give the melodeon a good go and if I really hate it, I can try something else!
Thank you for all your help and advice.
Maggie

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Shiamsa
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:08 PM

Well, if this person IS going to risk straying off the straight and narrow and take up an instrument I could hardly recommend the fiddle--isn't this the instrument associated with the Devil? You never hear of the Devil playing the piano or mouth-organ, do you? This association is common in European folklore and in Georgia (USA).

I don't mind not being taken seriously, but do resent being called facistious (Sp?). I have never had any time for Hitler, Mussollini, National Front, BNP, etc.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Scoville
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:13 PM

According to the salesman in Jessamyn West's Friendly Persuasion, the Devil played the banjo. According to Charlie Daniels, he plays the fiddle. Of course, I don't think I've ever met an old-time musician who only played one instrument so it's a fair guess that the Devil plays 3, 4, or 5 instruments just like everyone else I know.

*****

And it's "facetious", for future reference.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: MMario
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:14 PM

As a matter of fact I have read stories with the Devil playing the guitar, the piano, the harmonica, the jew's harp, the trumpet, the trombone, the clarinet, the drums and the tuba (though the illustration in that one was of a Sousaphone)

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Scoville
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:14 PM

. . . but now I have this image of Satan with a Hohner and I may never stop laughing.




Personally, I think a case could be made for the Devil with an accordion but I've never seen it documented.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Scoville
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM

Oh, wait--there he is. Funny, I thought he would look more like Myron Florens.

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Bee
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

In Cape Breton the Devil seems to stick to dancing with the young ladies, coyly revealing a cloven hoof (no doubt while executing a difficult step) near the end of the dance. Presumably himself doesn't care to be shown up by all the excellent fiddlers thereabouts. ;-)

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:13 PM

I started an entirely new skill at 52! (woodturning)....it just depends on how much you care and want to do it!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Rowan
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:14 PM

I'm sure Shiamsa should not be accused of facistiousness, nor even fascistiousness, and I hope fasciitis never strikes Shiamsa's Plantar. Facetiousness, now? Oh Lord. keep us from satire and all such prods to the imagination, lest we learn to march to the beat of diff'rent drums. Or even sing and play.

What was that about the Devil being in the detail?

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Shields Folk
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:28 PM

I started playing the Northumberland pipes 8 months ago.
Mind you I'm still a spring chicken at 44!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:30 PM

Only you can answer the question. If you think you are too old, you are.

My entire life I had wanted to play the Uilleann pipes. All kinds of things like military service, lack of availability, no instructors in those days, kids, bills, etc got in the way. Low and behold, at the age of 49 I got my hands on a good chanter, talked the highly esteemed reed maker, Benedict Koehler into reeding it, and off I went. Had I listened to the folks around me, I would never have played them. I heard all the crap like "you are too old", it takes years, etc. I had played whistles for a while, and had been an afondicio of pipers my entire life. I just plunged in, and it has become a passion for me. A big part of doing this was to accept a few things. I committed to becoming the very best UP'er that I could be, but understood that I will not hit the level of someone who started much earlier. Al Purcell, a great piper and teacher, advised me to start with Airs, and find the beauty in them.

I am so happy that I didn't listen to what I couldn't do, and instead plunged in. It is a meditative experience for me, and it brings me great satisfaction.

There is only one person who can say that you are too old. It is you. If you find yourself telling yourself that you are too old, I recommend that you tell yourself to go screw yourself, and plunge ahead anyway.

Good luck,

Mick

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:39 PM

My great-great-grandfather who left Ireland in 1847 once refused to go into a church because he saw somebody going in with a fiddle. He said the fiddle was the devil's instrument. (Reported by my grandmother in a letter to my sister.)

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 07:21 PM

Nice one Shiamsa, you had us all going there for a moment!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Richard Atkins
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 08:35 PM

Maggie perhaps Leadfingers point was correct .Good luck and go for it!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Disgusted
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 08:38 PM

Anyone want to buy a hat?

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 02:00 AM

Maggie---I left Northumberland when I was 48, never having played accordion or bodhran in public iin my life; now I do both, in public and every week. Go get it!

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: SylviaN
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 02:48 AM

As far as I'm concerned, music keeps you young, singing certainly has done that for me (which all my friends can attest to). I only added the Duet McCann concertina when I was past 45 and am performing with it now. What I'm working on now is to try and harness the "young" effect so that I go in reverse. I'll let you all know when I am successful.

I think that learning to play a new instrument is just as good at stimulating the brain as the little box they've been advertising on television, and it's more fun and you can share the enjoyment with friends and make new friends.

Never say never too old - I know the body has it's limits, but the mind certainly doesn't and, anyway, who says fun is only for the young! (If you know that person, let me know who it is and I'll put them straight).

Cheers

Sylvia

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 05:04 AM

Of course the devil plays a lot of instruments - and all of them very loudly and very badly :-)

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Eye Lander
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 12:39 PM

Andy (Miskin Man) and I took up the English Concertina a couple of years ago both in our middle 50's, we're not very good but enjoy the practice. It helps if you've been a folkie for a while and already heave the tunes in your head. I am new to it all so I am learning tunes as well as the instrument.

Jillie

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 03:36 PM

In Cape Breton there would seem to be a contradiction about the deil playin the fiddle. I have heard it said that it is the devil's insturment. I have also heard it said that it is the only insturment that he can't play because it forms a cross.
Most however are unanlmous in the claim that "Buddy MacMaster can play like the devil!" :-}
               Sandy

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST,bobcat
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 04:33 PM

Stuff the knitted socks and go for it.Life may begin at 40 but it takes off at 50..for us girls that is..kids growing up and freedom to pursue what ever challenge you fancy. I have been hutting in the Austrian Alps (famous five adventures for grown-ups) and taken up the challenge of learning a musical instrument in the hope that I can strum along...I'm not very musical but am enjoying myself or at least the challenge. This is the 21st century for crying out loud. The next generation are busy doing their thing and so should we...it's challenges that keep the little grey cells ticking over...so go for it!!! And good luck

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 04:38 PM

Jillie (Eye Lander) wrote "It helps if you've been a folkie for a while and already heave the tunes in your head."

What a wonderful image.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Am I too old to learn?
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 04:53 PM

In the circumstances, facetiousness would have made the remarks 'acceptable'. I was giving Shiamsa the benefit of the doubt.