BS: Where has the press been?

Subject: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:10 AM

Amongst the various threads on the elections in the US, I have yet to see any mention of the press (the fifth estate). I look back years and I wonder when that once-noble institution began to bow to Washington. When did they begin to follow the dictates of that excuse for a President, his 'policies' and his bullshit? And why?

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 12:24 AM

W's dad used the words "New World Order"
W uses globalization.

Globaization is the plan to make international corporations in charge of everything including legislation, media, military adventures and constitutional exceptions is not true fascism but a close inbred cousin of Mussolini's early experiment with corporate fascism. It is imperialism by boardroom rather than by nations.

The old guard of journalism either die or can be easily marginalized and disenfranchised. The new crop can only worship at the same trough of career development by doing what is expected and what they are told.

Look at the difference between new and old side by side - Katy Couric and Bob Shaeffer. ugh I can't go on...but you get the picture

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 02:02 AM

I think the broadcasters in particular were terrified of "getting it wrong" like last time and so kept thier heads very well down on exit polls etc. It would still be very interesting to compare exit polls with recorded votes, and to compare for skewness between the different types of voting machines, as the possibility of vote rigging was never properly investigated in 2004 and may still be there.

IMHO one of the first things that the USA needs to clean up is its electoral and legislative system: -

Properly trackable votes
Properly trackable election funding
"Clean money" laws on election funding
Do something (not sure what) about lobbying corruption
End the abuse of tacking unconnected things onto the ends of other bills and hiding them so they slip through without scrutiny in late night committee sitting
Clean up the appointment of judges in general and supreme court judges in particular (the party political voting by supreme court judges on the "hanging chad" and other 2004 election issues would have disgraced a banana republic)
Separation of church and state
Multiculturalism in education

And where has the press been on all of these?

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:15 AM

Peace if you want to trace the corruption of the press, it can be measured alongside the expansion of Rupert Murdoch's empire.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: ejsant
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:43 AM

Spot on Richard. Unfortunately as I see it this ill is spreading around the globe and it seems to be picking up momentum. In my mind it all comes from the fact that we as a species, and of course there are those that are exempted, have come to worship that which we create much more than that which has been created for us.

In my mind the only way this disease will be stopped and reversed is if we all take more day to day responsibility in building a peaceful, compassionate, and respectful world society.

Peace,
Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:39 AM

Consolidation of the ownership of the "independent"[sic] press into the hands of a very few megacorporations plus the wholesale switch from real news to "entertainment" & "infomercials, neatly blurring the line between fact & fiction. Hey, its all about selling corn flakes and dish soap anyway- not providing a public service- when it isn't about disseminating corporatist propaganda and disinformation.

The only things approximating real news programs any longer are on the BBC the CBC/Radio Canada International & public television & radio.

Throw in the incredible imbecility of the U.S. population that can actually believe, for example, that Fox "News"[sic] is "fair and balanced" & Bob's your uncle. Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite would be derided as "liberal crybabies" today, and the boobocracy would buy the smear.

"And that's the way it is. Good night, and good luck."

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:53 AM

Heck, these days Barry Goldwater -- who believed abortion should be legal and sided with environmental conservation -- would be considered a flaming liberal socialist do-gooder peacenik freak.

When the reporters for major metropolitan media outlets mostly sit around waiting for a story to cover, when the evening television news only covers "crime, weather, and sports," when the half-hour news program is actually less than 20 minutes of things other than commercials, when the doings of "celebrities" take precedence, when the public is considered to be uninterested in and bored by things which might actually make them think....

Ask yourself where such programs as "You Are There" have gone. When was the last time you saw a REAL political debate, one that used the rules of actual debate instead of being simply another press conference?

Ask yourself why the public in all countries are more interested in sport than good governance....

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:13 AM

Barry Goldwater ... would be considered a flaming liberal socialist do-gooder peacenik freak.

Not only would be, HAS BEEN by the BuShites. See Barry's grandaughter's recent comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:40 AM

As the old political spectrum turns out to be more of a circle than a line. The radical and reactionary are not so far apart in many ways. The Goldwater case in point........Anyone see his grandaughter on Bill Maher's HBO show? Made a lot of sense.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:30 AM

"The corruption of the press" - No. The corruption of the press barons - Yes. Journalists are finding it an increasingly hard, dangerous and difficult job reporting on the world today. Powerful and unscrupulous corporations and multi-national companies aim to supress, silence and even jail journalists who are going about their responsible jobs. The following is an email released by the NUJ Bristol Branch:

Tony Benn: the media and the political process

The Inaugural Benn Lecture - reflecting critically on making the news
Wednesday 15th November 2006 - Arnolfini, Narrow Quay, BS1 4QA - 7pm

Have you ever wondered who decides what news we read in the paper every day and see on TV every night? What influence do the owners and managers have? How stories are 'spun' and which ones don't make it into the bulletin?

The modern media is changing fast. Technological developments such as satellite, WAP and broadband mean that, rather than a handful of channels, we have hundreds of ways to get our news. Media ownership is changing too with the once local ITV stations up for auction in a global marketplace and giant transnational media corporations dominating the market.

Wednesday 15th November sees the first in a series of lectures about journalism in Bristol by some of the world's most independent-minded writers and broadcasters. They will take a step back from the job and reflect on the way the media is changing, challenging some of the difficulties modern journalists encounter in doing their job.

The inaugural lecture will be given by Ex Bristol MP Tony Benn who, after being demobbed from the RAF, began his career as a BBC radio producer in the 1940s. He entered politics and went on to become Postmaster General and Secretary of State for Industry and then Energy, cabinet posts under Prime Ministers Harold Wilson and James Callaghan. Mr Benn recently made a one hour special for Channel Four: 'Interviewing the Interviewers', where he turned the tables on Jeremy Paxman, John Humphries, Jon Snow and BBC Political editor Nick Robinson.

Former ITN and Panorama Middle East correspondent Alan Hart will also be along to share his thoughts on coverage of the present Middle Eastern conflicts. The lecture will be followed by an audience discussion about 21st Century news-making.
The event is organised jointly by the National Union of Journalists and Arnolfini and will be chaired by freelance journalist Christina Zaba.

Arnolfini, 16 Narrow Quay, BRISTOL BS1 4QA - Box Office, 0117 917 2300

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 10:41 AM

What the good doctor has just said...

News departments are being gutted in the name of corporate profits and thus are increasingly willing to let the administartions PR department provide the "supposed" news...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:06 PM

Of course you are correct Dr. Price.

The would-be-if-they-could-be types now have all the jobs and the journalists are now on the outside looking in; the new would-bes.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:32 PM

When a few giant corporate organizations own all the major media outlets the press becomes nothing but a commercial advertiser, an entertainment medium, and a dispenser of $ySStem propaganda. That is what has happened for the most part, although the odd bit of real info creeps through on rare occasions...due to the efforts of a few courageous columnists and commentators.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:33 PM

I wonder if the 'fifth estate' will begin to examine itself? Any thoughts on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:41 PM

Isn't it the fourth estate?

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:44 PM

(I'm of humble birth, aspiration and achievement; I'm probably missing an estate or two...)

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:45 PM

Rupert Murdoch is not called the " Dirty Digger" out here in Australia for no reason

AD 1943

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:52 PM

"France under the Ancien Régime (before the French Revolution) divided society into three estates: the First Estate or clergy; the Second Estate or nobility; and the Third Estate or commoners."

"The Fourth Estate is a common term for the press."

Danged if you ain't right. (I was thinking about the TV show named The Fifth Estate". (Investigative journalism.)) Thanks for pointing that out, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:54 PM

fourth estate = fifth column

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:56 PM

Glad I brought that up at the eleventh hour.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:57 PM

No second thoughts about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:57 PM

The only things approximating real news programs any longer are on the BBC ...

And politicians over here have been trying to castrate the BBC for the past 30 years or so. To some extent they have succeeded as the BBC is not as fearless as it once was.

When politicians of both the main parties accuse the BBC of bias towards their opponents, you can usually reckon they have got it about right.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 06:57 PM

Something you americans might find funny -

I get sattelite TV in my home - (no that's not the joke, we're not that backward out here you know)

I get BBC24, CNN, Euronews etc etc all for free. I even get chinese state english language news for free.

But if I want FOX, I have to subscribe.

....

I'll leave all the sharp witticisms for you guys to fight over.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:22 PM

I may only be a simple "country lawyer" but the way I see it is the great robber barons of today are the TV, radio, internet and publishing monopolies... and of course petroleum Inc.

It used to be the rail roads that called the shots but now it's those who own the "pipe lines" of information and energy.

The recent Republican steered FCC has gone along with new rules that allow a single monopoly to OWN as many as 7 radio stations, 3 TV stations and all the newspapers in your average town.

Most pointedly the internet is poised to be gobbled up by GIANTS.

We are all going to face the controversy of network neutrality.

I only know of one small Louisiana town that stood up against the communication monopolies and won by building their own fiber optic internet cable system. Hoo Boy were the calbe companies mad! They spent millions on TV ads to talk people into feeding only from their kind and benevolent hand. The people didn;t buy it in Louisiana.



Listen folks, this is what was done to us. The cable companies like Verizon and Cmmcast were given vast tax breaks so they could take those tax free profits and build the national fiber optic system.

They took those tax free profits. But didn't build the national fiber optic system, except in certain limited metropolitan areas.

Even in our Metropolitan areas with fiber optics we have CRAP.
What we have now is a broad band system that is 100 times slower than the broad band internet service in Japan. In Japan you can download a full length Hollywood movie in as little as a minute.

The robber barons are betting the ranch they will be able to bamboozle you into paying twice for what we have already paid for by paying taxes to cover the cable crook's tax free con. They even want you to pay extra if you want to STAY in the fast lane (remember our fast lane is 100 times slower than other countries).

For example, if Mudcat won't fork over huge fees, it will be put on a lower tier system that will only allow connectivity when all other "premium website customers" are properly served.

Yep, I may only be a country hick, but even a dog knows when its being kicked on purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:53 PM

Most posts above are about the blabbermouths on TV. What does that have to do with the press?
Doesn't anyone read anymore?

Still some genuine journalists working for the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. who are good analysts and reporters. I find I must have the Sunday NY Times, as well as their internet version, and the internet Washington Post (subscription receipt too slow here, and budget limited), which has most of the better political cartoons, and all of the good comic strips, as well as good reporting..

The news and business reports on BBC World, which our local cable carries, provide a good summary of the day's events.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:52 AM

The print media are a vastly better source of information than the TV. TV is the WORST. It will please you to know, Q, that I don't bother with the TV at all. I get my news analysis from newspapers, magazines, and the Internet. I simply don't watch TV anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:02 AM

In some ways it's too bad--but the "press"--print media--is being seriously hurt by the other "media"--especially the Net.

Circulation is dropping for the vast majority of newspapers. And it looks like a one-way street--with few exceptions.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: John O'L
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 02:21 AM

I would guess that people who use the internet for news would be likely to be readers of quality publications, so the internet would have minimal impact on the likes of Murdoch.*


*Rupert of course

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 12:36 PM

The internet is dropping circulation for most of the print media--including quality papers--mainly due to attracting advertising to the Web--and away from newspapers.

We can hope it won't also mean falling literacy. But indications on the Web so far are not encouraging.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 01:03 PM

Obviously, what falling advertising is doing to print media is hurting their financial health--which in turn makes it more difficult to turn out a quality product--and therefore hurts circulation.

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 07:10 PM

Is the purpose of the press 'to inform'?

Please read the following article. We are told that the man is a Senate candidate. We also are told about his many disagreements with president George W. Bush.

Can you find any mention of his name?

Does it say anywhere that he is African-American?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For One Senate Candidate, the 'R' Is a 'Scarlet Letter'

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, July 25, 2006; Page A02


The candidate, immersed in one of the most competitive Senate races in the country, sat down to lunch yesterday with reporters at a Capitol Hill steakhouse and shared his views about this year's political currents.

On the Iraq war: "It didn't work. . . . We didn't prepare for the peace."

On the response to Hurricane Katrina: "A monumental failure of government."

On the national mood: "There's a palpable frustration right now in the country."

It's all fairly standard Democratic boilerplate -- except the candidate is a Republican . And he's getting all kinds of cooperation from the White House, the Republican National Committee and GOP congressional leaders.

Not that he necessarily wants it. "Well, you know, I don't know," the candidate said when asked if he wanted President Bush to campaign for him. Noting Bush's low standing in his home state, he finally added: "To be honest with you, probably not."

The candidate gave the luncheon briefing to nine reporters from newspapers, magazines and networks under the condition that he be identified only as a GOP Senate candidate. When he was pressed to go on the record, his campaign toyed with the idea but got cold feet. He was anxious enough to air his gripes but cautious enough to avoid a public brawl with the White House.

Still, his willingness to speak so critically, if anonymously, about the party he will represent on Election Day points to a growing sense among Republicans that if they are to retain their majorities in Congress, they may have to throw the president under the train in all but the safest, reddest states.

It's not an ideological matter. Even as he berated the president, the candidate allowed that he opposes a pullout from Iraq, agrees with Bush's veto of human embryonic stem cell research, and supports constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage and flag burning.

"He's the best!" cheered Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) when he stopped in to shake the candidate's hand during the lunch yesterday.

But if such affection is mutual, the candidate did not always show it. "We've lost our way, we've gone to the well and we drank the water, and we shouldn't have," he said of congressional Republicans. "You don't go to Congress to become the party that you've been fighting for 40 years." Lamenting "the spending, the finger-pointing, not getting the bills passed," he counseled: "Just shut up and get something done."

The source of the candidate's anger -- and his anxiety -- is the Iraq war, which he called "the single thread that is weaving through every issue," including high gas prices and the violence in Lebanon. "People want an honest assessment from the administration, and they want to hear the administration admit we thought this, and it didn't happen that way, and -- guess what -- it didn't work, so we're going to try a Plan B." He continued: "Let's call it what it is. We thought this was going to be a different kind of engagement."

He seemed less agitated by the policy failure than by Bush's unwillingness to admit failure. "I don't know why the people around him don't see that," he said. "It is a frustration, to say the least. I think it is a lost opportunity to bring the American people along on a mission that is incredibly important."

The candidate looked the part of the contender, wearing a monogrammed shirt, his French cuffs sprouting cuff links coordinated with his necktie. He ate carefully, removing the gelatinous yolk from the four-minute egg in his salad. But he spoke with little caution as he ladled a heaping portion of criticism on his own party.

"In 2001, we were attacked and the president is on the ground, on a mound with his arm around the fireman, symbol of America," he said, between bites of hanger steak and risotto. "In Katrina, the president is at 30,000 feet in an airplane looking down at people dying, living on a bridge. And that disconnect, I think, sums up, for me at least, the frustration that Americans feel."

The response to Katrina was "a monumental failure," he continued. "We became so powerful in our ivory towers, in our gated communities. We forgot that there are poor people." The detachment remained after the storm, he said. "I could see that they weren't getting it, they weren't necessarily clued in. . . . For me, the seminal moment was the [Dubai] port decision."

Of course, picking on Bush for Katrina and the Dubai ports is hardly a daring position, even for a Republican. And in some cases, the candidate hit Bush from the right, such as when he opposed Bush's proposed guest-worker program for immigrants. "Republicans aren't very happy people right now," he argued. "The base is kind of ticked off."

He spoke of his party affiliation as though it were a congenital defect rather than a choice. "It's an impediment. It's a hurdle I have to overcome," he said. "I've got an 'R' here, a scarlet letter."

That left the candidate in a difficult spot. "For me to pretend I'm not a Republican would be a lie," he reasoned. But to run as a proud Republican? "That's going to be tough, it's going to be tough to do," he said. "If this race is about Republicans and Democrats, I lose."

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: number 6
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 09:03 PM

CNN certainly does not bow to Washington ... they (particularly Lou Dobbs, and to a degree Wolf Blitzer) constantly blast, question the Bush regime and the government as a whole on a nitely basis. They are openly critical on the current U.S. government.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Where has the press been?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 02:28 AM

pdq-

Point please. Is it by some chance that the press is not perfect?   Granted--does that make you happy?

Actually I'd be more inclined to trust the author of this article--(which I would bet is about Steele--it's a well-known fact that he did not admit he was a Republican unless pushed)---than your good self. We have no way of knowing if you quoted the whole article or not.

Not that I want to imply that you're just a bit partisan--heaven forbid.