BS: Global Flu Shots

Subject: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: LilyFestre
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:45 PM

I'm curious if other countries around the world offer flu shots. If so, are they heavily pushed? In the US, there are ads everywhere for the flu shot. Last year there was a shortage of flu shot medication available in my area and people were very nervous about it. I know protection from the flu is supposed to be a good thing and that it is vital for older people especially but holy over-the-limit batman...it's gotten ridiculous. Is it that way anywhere else?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:47 PM

It's not forced upon you...if you don't want one, don't get one. On the other hand, I think that they should be easily available to those who do want one -- and free to those who can't afford one.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: LilyFestre
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:50 PM

I agree but I think the push for it is crazy. They advertise it like it's a car or something. Public awareness is one thing but this is entirely it's own beast! Yes, it should be available for those who want it and free for those who can't afford it and want one.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: bobad
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 08:51 PM

Are they being pushed by the drug companies? If so it's pretty obvious what the motive is.

In Canada they are given free of charge and by recommendation of one's family physician.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 10:04 PM

Part of the reason for advocating widespread flu shots is that no disease is particularly ¹dangerous if only a few people get it. Depending on how easily communicated a disease is, there is a certain "critical abundance" of infections that must be exceeded for that disease to spread rapidly, become widely distributed, and to infect large numbers of people - epidemic/pandemic style.

¹ except to the few who get it.

If a sufficient part of the population can be kept resistant to something like flu, even if the shots don't give full immunity, the ability of a new variant to reach the critical level of infection to spread rapidly is significantly reduced.

Case in point is the polio pandemic of a few decades ago. Fairly benign variants of the polio virus were (and are) well known, and infection with them maintained a base population with widespread resistance, including some resistance to the paralytic form. The Swiss got indoor plumbing and started washing their hands (in a national campaign for civic improvement). The benign variants dropped out of sight. The paralytic form reached the crossover point and rapidly infected the whole world.

Individuals may make their own decisions about whether they need to get flu shots. Those at high risk of getting whatever flu is circulation probably would want to. For a few, the shots may carry special risks, and they should not. The need is to keep a reasonably large percentage of the population as a whole as resistant as possible, in the hope that a general and widespread resistance to "new flu-like illnesses" may help prevent a new pandemic.

Of course, there are other theories too.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Alice
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 10:06 PM

Paid $25 for mine. I get one every year. People need to get repeated messages before the info sinks in to their brain. Head on apply directly to the forehead, Head on...

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: bobad
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 10:28 PM

A correction to my previous post.

Ontario offers the flu vaccine to all citizens free of charge. Other provinces have their own policy. In Quebec it is offered to people over 60 and to those in risk categories such as those with chronic illness, care givers and health care workers. I'm not sure about the other provinces but I was informed that Alberta charges for those not in risk categories.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 18 Nov 06 - 10:59 PM

In the UK, flu shots are free to over 65, and various at risk groups. The national goverment has had a long running series of ads ( 5 years, about?) on it.

However it is common for doctors not to be able to obtain the vaccine for weeks, whilst least one major supermarket chain was selling it at about half the price the doctors were buying it for....

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: LilyFestre
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 12:21 AM

Ok...so it IS going on around the world! My intention wasn't to debate the necessity (or lack thereof) of the flu shot, I was just curious if it is marketed heavily around the world or only in the US.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 02:11 AM

It's not that it is marketed heavily in Australia, but they are readily available - and some people who may be severely affected are recommended to get them. I try to ensure that I have then at least every couple of years, if not yearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 02:58 AM

They make you autistic, give you MS, and also innoculate you with the wrong virus strain. TAMIFLU works....as long as you are not an Asian child and receive it three days too late. It should be in everyone's travel bag.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: John O'L
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 03:32 AM

My wife is a registered nurse. The hospital where she works offers it every winter to all their staff. She hardly ever gets sick and has only had the flu once or twice in the twenty-odd years I've known her. A few years ago she got a flu vaccination because there was a particularly nasty strain of flu being drummed up in the media. That year she got the flu, so she never got vaccinated against it again and hasn't been sick since.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 05:30 AM

I get offered it each year here in East Anglia, partly having had a mild heart attack (11 years ago), partly being over 60, I suspect.

   This year I said,'No thanks'. I haven't had 'flu since I don't know when, and certainly not since 1993, when I converted to a healthy diet. And therefore not since 1995. That year of the heart attack, I was told by a doc that we don't drink enough water. Since then, I've made a point of sipping water a lot, and for years after, I didn't get a cold either.

(I can't recommend highly enough "Your Body's Many Cries for Water" by Dr.F.Batmanghelidj)

So I said no because I think my immune system is in good shape.

A further downside to getting the jab is that germs develop new strains to get past the chemical defences, so, as with war, I doubt the strategy is always right.

I add hastily that I do take an aspirin a day, and I'm grateful to the docs for same my life with the stuff they had. I just think people have such a fearfulness of illness and such a love of 'getting -something- from- the-doctor-if- he -says-it-will-help', and love of technology, that they make themselves vulnerable. When I go to the doc., I always say I don't want to be given anything if there is no vital need for anything.






      
       Ivor





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 05:57 AM

It has been mentioned that Tamiflu resistant starains have developed.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 06:08 AM

Ride dow I bish I'd had a idjekshun.
Yours fluilly, C.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 06:14 AM

Ben Dover, mate...

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 06:18 AM

What's yor diet like,fat B.?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:48 AM

I am entitled to the jab, being asthmatic, so I tend to go for it. I occasionaly get a few flu-ish symptoms as a side effect but very mild and not often. Last year they also offered me a pneumonia jab which is good for 10 years protection so I took that as well. No side effects.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 08:41 AM

I'm in New Hampshire, and haven't seen one ad on TV or heard one on the radio. I got the shot though.

Influenza doesn't usually kill many people, but it kills some, and the vaccine can probably prevent most of those. (The viruses the shot's for, not the other ones.) The folks who administer the vaccination programs are looking at 'herd health', not necessarily the health of individuals. You vaccinate one person, and not only do they not get sick, but they don't spread the flu to others. You might recover just fine, but the neighbor's baby, the cancer patient, or the elderly family member to whom you pass the virus might not. Usually, heavy marketing is aimed at limiting transmission and numbers of infections, and probably doesn't have a lot to do with making money. The vaccine doesn't cost that much and many people will get it without the ads.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Alice
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 09:57 AM

I am shaking hands with strangers every day of my job. Even if you eat well and stay healthy, if you are exposed enough to the flu virus you can get it. I'm not taking the chance, so I immunize every year. I had a sinus infection develop after having the flu back in '97, and it took me a year of suffering before I got rid of it. Never again if I can prevent it.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Tig
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 12:48 PM

I am offered it every year since I fall into several high risk catagories. I took up the offer for about 3 years but each time the side effects got worse until they made me really ill. Therefore I made a choice not to have it - but refused to sign the form saying so since this may have made the docs reluctant to treat me if I DID get it as I had 'Refused recommended treatment!"

It is freely available so make up your own mind about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 01:31 PM

Of course the advertising campaign is global. The moneyed elites use vaccines to kill us off. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are currently putting poor unfortunates out of their misery with vaccines in Africa, free of charge to the victims.

The U.N. plan for global population reduction includes a healthy (or rather, unhealthy) dose of vaccines for us all. But the vaccines are tainted. Rotting bits of dna detritus and all that. And mercury. If you've had flu shots for any four consecutive years past the age of 60, your chances of being diagnosed with Alzheimer's go up astronomically. It's the mercury preservatives in the vaccines short-circuiting your brain's neurons. In the U.S., govt-run public schools now force 40+ vaccines on kids, and autism (more short-circuiting of the brain) has skyrocketed.

If you take vaccines you are insane. The "flu" shot, for example. A "flu shot" is only good for one specific strain of flu. The govts and vaccine makers make a best guess as to which strain of flu will cause problems this winter, then they produce tons of vaccine to fight "the flu." But they should more honestly advertise the vaccine they're pushing will fight "a flu." One strain out of a thousand. Remember the swine flu epidemic that never happened? They hyped the hell out of that, millions got the shots, and thousands are still debilitated from the experience. And now they hype "avian" flu and constantly remind us it is mutating. They plant that in our thinking because their damned vaccines won't do any good, and those of us who survive the bioengineered attack against us are going to wonder why the shots didn't save more. "Well, we TOLD you it might mutate."

Vaccines are a global plague, heaped on us by the U.N. Say no to vaccines. If sickness breaks out in your area, avoid public places and wash your hands well after coming in contact with others. Seek out herbal preventatives (clove of raw garlic a day, etc.), and drink lots of clean water. Especially avoid forced relocation where you will be put in contact with people carrying the disease.

Oh, and tamiflu is snake oil. Doesn't work. Rumsfeld's drug company makes it, so it's received a big govt PR push. Put your money into hand soap, a water filter, disposable face masks and garlic instead. And ignore the govt-sponsored terrorism on the airwaves. They'll kill us when they kill us, so don't give them the satisfaction of jumping through their stinking hoops.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 01:38 PM

Oh, and did you know that flushing one of the high-pressure toilets in a public restroom creates a jet of air that would spew 30 feet straight up if not stopped by the ceiling? Not a good idea to flush the things...germ spread.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 01:45 PM

Ignoring the above.

I get a flu shot every year because I work with a LOT of people every year. I've had the pneumonia shot, too -- a disease to which I am particularily susceptible, having had it several times since I was two years old -- and I'm about due for reshoot. I also get tetanus and typhoid -- the last tetanus shot was a couple years ago when I was smacked in the middle of the forehead by barbed wire while stringing it around the Reference Area of the Library (don't, don't ask!). I also drive with my headlights on.

I've seen someone dying of tetanus, and I've seen (and smelled) the results of gangrene. I've had the flu, too.

Thanks for the advice, but I'll take the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: C. Ham
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 02:21 PM

About seven or eight years ago, I had a very nasty bout with the flu. I was sick about two weeks and didn't feel really good again for another couple of weeks after that. My wife, who'd had a flu shot, did not get sick at all. Since then, I've had the shot every year and not gotten sick.

Now that I've had the flu and have had the flu shot, I'll happily take the shot. Had this year's shot this past Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Bee
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 02:25 PM

I get 'em. In Nova Scotia, high risk people get them free, $15. was last years price for others, and a lot of work places (most child care workers get them free, but I think the centre pays Public Health half price for them)give them free or half price to employees. I worked in child care for 25 years; I'm a big supporter of vaccines and hygeine awareness programs. Your immune system may be like Superman's, but unless you're a hermit, you can be responsible for the death of a senior or small child if you're spreading viruses and bacteria via your unwashed little handies.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: LilyFestre
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 02:39 PM

I don't get the shot either. I am one of those people with a chronic disease that are encouraged to get this shot but I do not. My last Dr. had the syringe out, the vial out and thought he was going to give me the shot without so much as ASKING if I wanted it. He got an earful. I know far too many people who have gotten the shot and gotten terribly sick as a result.
   For years, I have been in the public education system and university system and I am thankful to say that I haven't been sick at all. I wash my hands all the time (NOT the antibacterial soap), take vitamins and do my best to eat a somewhat healthy diet. Handwashing is key.

How about you folks in Scotland? England? How is it there?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 04:43 PM

For your consideration, another side of the question Flu Vaccine Rarely Effective

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:59 PM

Tamiflu Reconsidered?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:32 AM

Flu shots are nature's way of culling out the stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: jeffp
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:40 PM

My company offers them free to employees. I have had them many times. The only time I had any side effects was from a blown stick. The nurse stuck me too high and the serum went into the shoulder joint, causing me about a week of severe achiness in that shoulder. I haven't seen anyone in our company come down with any serious side effects from the shot in the last several years. We haven't been hit too hard by the flu either.

Locking your doors doesn't always prevent burglary, but I lock mine just the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:52 PM

Pumping mercury into your system doesn't eat away your brain overnight, but you do it just the same. Geez. Fine. Clean out the gene pool. Mercury makes a lovely giblet gravy too, I imagine, so why not try that this Thanksgiving?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: jeffp
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 01:58 PM

At least I haven't forgotten my name. And I have facts to offer not scare stories. Save them for the kiddies at the campfire.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:16 PM

I've had lots of flu shots and they have never affec.. affec.. affec.. affec.. affec.. affec.. affec..

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 07:13 PM

LOL!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 07:59 PM

If I had a name like jeffp I'd TRY to forget it. The stories don't scare me because I don't let strangers inject murky fluids into my body.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 08:23 PM

Hmmm, GUEST is a guy?!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: jeffp
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:20 PM

Thanks for showing us the unbelievable strength of your argument. I am now a true believer. Where's the Kool-Aid?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 09:30 PM

I read your postings with disbeliefp, jeffp.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:37 PM

http://www.worldpoultry.net/ts_wo/worldpoultry.portal/enc/_nfpb/true/tswo_portlet_news_singleeditorschoice1_3_actionOverride/___

Link may or may not work.

TEN CANADIANS DIE AFTER TAKING BIRD FLU VACCINE

Following reports that patients taking Tamiflu can exhibit dangerous behaviour, news has surfaced that ten Canadians have died and at least 74 had adverse reactions after taking the flu drug.

Health Canada has been criticised for not issuing a public update about the drug sooner.

Reportedly, the public update eventually came more than two weeks after international warnings were posted of adverse reactions to the medication among children and youth.

The product's prescribing guidelines now indicate that taking the drug can lead to strange behaviours, including hallucinations, delirium and self-injury.

Among those taking the drug who have exhibited dangerous behaviour, there have been 25 reported deaths around the world in the most recent one-year period.

Health Canada said it has "not received any such reports" of abnormal behaviour among young people in Canada.

But it has asked Tamiflu's producer, Roche , to include updated information about possible adverse reactions on its Canadian labels.
The US Food and Drug Administration and Roche issued a warning about the drug on November 13.

Auditor-General Sheila Fraser's report released Tuesday included criticism that Health Canada doesn't issue timely and accurate health warnings to the public on a variety of issues.

Health Canada representatives said mismanagement and insufficient funds in a variety of areas, including drug programmes, could jeopardise public health and safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:59 PM

Does the name Rumsfeld ring a bell with anyone?

Who is making big bucks from the shots and the 'pending pandemic'?

BTW, I am guaranteed a shot because I am an emergency responder. I will refuse the injection.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:04 PM

It's a business Lilyfestre. The legal drug trade is one of the biggest businesses going, and its primary concern is to generate profit for the drug companies. Without a sick and paraniod populace, where would they be? They advertise aggressively because they want to frighten people into purchasing their products.

I have, by choice, never had a flu shot, and I doubt very much that I ever will. It is my opinion that flu shots do far more harm than good to the general population. I realize that some people will go berserk when they hear that opinion. Fine. We are all free to take a flu shot or to refuse it. It's a matter of your personal choice, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:08 PM

"TEN CANADIANS DIE AFTER TAKING BIRD FLU VACCINE"

"Following reports that patients taking Tamiflu can exhibit dangerous behaviour, news has surfaced that ten Canadians have died and at least 74 had adverse reactions after taking the flu drug."

"Health Canada said it has "not received any such reports" of abnormal behaviour among young people in Canada."

Tamiflu is not a bird flu vaccine.

There seems to be a few contradictions here, sources would be helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: bobad
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM

"It is my opinion that flu shots do far more harm than good to the general population."

There are plenty of studies that provide data - not opinion.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7661497&dopt=Citation is a meta-analysis that distills the data from a search of publications.

"DATA SYNTHESIS: In a meta-analysis of 20 cohort studies, the pooled estimates of vaccine efficacy (1-odds ratio) were 56% (95% Cl, 39% to 68%) for preventing respiratory illness, 53% (Cl, 35% to 66%) for preventing pneumonia, 50% (Cl, 28% to 65%) for preventing hospitalization, and 68% (Cl, 56% to 76%) for preventing death. Vaccine efficacy in the case-control studies ranged from 32% to 45% for preventing hospitalization for pneumonia, from 31% to 65% for preventing hospital deaths from pneumonia and influenza, from 43% to 50% for preventing hospital deaths from all respiratory conditions, and from 27% to 30% for preventing deaths from all causes."

"CONCLUSION: Despite the paucity of randomized trials, many studies confirm that influenza vaccine reduces the risks for pneumonia, hospitalization, and death in elderly persons during an influenza epidemic if the vaccine strain is identical or similar to the epidemic strain. Influenza immunization is an indispensable part of the care of persons 65 years of age and older. Annual vaccine administration requires the attention of all physicians and public health organizations."

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:42 PM

Yes, and there are plenty of books about it too. Which book you read can make a big difference in what compelling evidence gets quoted...and which studies are referenced for data.

As I said, if you want a flu shot, no one (least of not I) will stop you from getting one.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:12 PM

"Experts in Hong Kong warn that the human strain of the H5N1 bird flu that surfaced in Vietnam is showing resistance to the antiviral drug Tamiflu. Countries around the world are stockpiling Tamiflu to ward off a looming flu pandemic that could kill millions of people.

"There are now resistant H5N1 strains appearing, and we can't totally rely on one drug (Tamiflu)," said William Chui, honorary associate professor with the department of pharmacology at the Queen Mary Hospital in Hong Kong."

This info is over a year old, FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Flu Shots
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:16 PM

I see you have abandoned logic for personal insult, "Guest." Thanks for showing us the strength of your data.