BS: Big Brain - Little Brain

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:38 AM

"To the contrary, there is a great deal of very interesting spiritual literature now that suggests that we all are God"

I can't find now the site about the original "Be your own Pope" by the Discordians. It had a business card that you could print off and hand around announcing that you were the Pope of Your Own Church...


AH! it's mentioend in the Wiki entry...

According to page 00036 of the Principia Discordia, a pope is "every single man, woman, and child on this Earth."

Included in the Principia Discordia there is an "official =POPE= card" (on page 00036) that may be reproduced and distributed freely to anyone and everyone. Papacy, however, is not granted through possession of this card — it is merely to inform people that they are a genuine and authorized Pope of Discordia.

While the powers of a Pope were not necessarily enumerated in the Principia, we are given some idea from a note under the card which states, "A =POPE= is someone who is not under the authority of the authorities."

~~~~~~~~`
Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.

Discordian Quotes


If at first you don't succeed, try following the instructions.

Et sic patet quod totus mundus est sicut unum speculum plenum luminibus praesentantibus divinam sapientam, et sicut carbo effundens lucem.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 02:18 AM

Who said I wasn't an Atheist?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,Bill Blake
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:30 PM

Thank you, Zebulon. Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,Zebulon
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:23 PM

"And obviously this god is not you yourself - you know you are not a God."

To the contrary, there is a great deal of very interesting spiritual literature now that suggests that we all are God. That doesn't mean that we all are in charge of everything and everyone else, it simply means that God, being infinite, comprises all beings and all phenomena...since the infinite must, by definition, comprise everything. Everything arises out of the infinite, and everything is God extending itself into manifestation.

The large brain you speak of may indeed be analogous to the God presence/consciousness (which is implicit in everyone), while the small brain is analogous to the ego...which falsely imagines itself to be separate from God and from everyone else...and doesn't listen to the God within most of the time (if at all).

That is the crux of the spiritual problem, Bald Eagle.

Your view of God is the ego's view of God...meaning, it sees "God" as a much bigger (but separate) and probably mythical version of itself. God is not separate from anyone or anything. God is not male, female, or neutral, but is all of those together. God cannot be argued with or bargained with because He/She/It is not separate from you. You can't have an argument with something that is not separate from yourself nor can you get away from it...except by pretending it isn't there. ;-)

The ego either pretends God isn't there...or if it's religiously inclined it turns God into a monstrous (and sacred) version of itself on a much larger scale...but whatever it does, it makes sure to keep God SEPARATE from people.

And God is not separate from you or anyone else. You are God, and so is everyone else, but until you realize that you and everyone else and everything else IS God you will continue concocting bizarre arguments to prove that the impossible separate God you made up in your mind can't exist. And you will continue, in all probability, hating, killing, wasting, and messing up your world...if you're like the average human being who lives entirely in his ego consciousness.

It's amusing. But it's your free will, so go right ahead if you want to. God will not stop you. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 08:16 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 07:41 PM

I acquiese to your superior spelling, bobad.

(I was quoting his name as given in the Catholic Encyclopaedia).

And to be more precise, it was not Copernicus who was at the center of the famous controversy, but Galileo.   Galileo recanted his own belief in the Copernican system - which is not quite in the same league as refuting your own theory.

Regards

BE2

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: bobad
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 07:14 PM

"or to be more accurate "Niclas Kopernik""

Actually I believe that should be Mikolaj Kopernik, to be more accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 06:55 PM

Are you proposing that any idea that comforts Atheists can be dismissed out of hand, simply because it comforts them, Foolestroupe?    Some sort of "anything that comforts our enemy is our enemy" philosophy, perhaps?

Wasn't that the attitude that had Copernicus (or to be more accurate "Niclas Kopernik") publicly refute his theory that the earth moved around the sun, and not vice versa?

The refutation did not actually stop the earth moving around the sun, but it did give comfort to the Theists of the day.

Regards

BE2

BE2

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 06:27 PM

The idea that all Religion sprouts form the 'Big/Little Brain' thing comforts Atheists.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 05:51 PM

Ah now I comprehend. I guess my personal academic head was out of sync when I digested your comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 05:05 PM

"Guest Lox........I'm surprised georgiansilver was still awake to post a comment. ;-)....Why would I not be awake enough to post such a comment?"

Because of my response "being so dry and academic that it almost sent me to sleep writing it."

(the line before the one you quoted. My comment including your name was self depracating joke i.e. I used myself as the butt of my own joke)

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Slag
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:41 PM

Yup. There are a lot of threads that discuss theology and many for letting off steam. This one doesn't seem like it should evoke that sort of response. Just a moment. Let me confer with my little brain ( uh huh, mmm. ok. yea, me too) ok, looks like we should stay within the narrow confines of the topic as presented.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:59 PM

I suppose it is time for a "mea culpa" for not researching "enteric nervous system" with all due diligence.

When psychiatrists and psychologists talk of little-brain big-brain, they mean it in the way I intended: a small conscious segment of brain embedded in a vaster, non-cognizant brain.   (As per Heitkemper publishing that dreaming during sleep is the way that Big Brain and Little Brain do most of their communicating).

When neurologists use the same term, they are referring to the way in which the enteric nervous system is independent of the cerebellum, and acts as if it were a little brain in its own right.

On researching the psychological aspect of little-brain big-brain, I kept stumbling into references to the enteric nervous sytem, and thought that the two disciplines were using the same phraseology to describe the same phenomenom.    (Silly me).

I apologise for the confusion that my use of inaccurate terminology has caused.

And if I remove the phrase "theology explains away all that is inexplicible" from my original text, could we discuss the hypothesis posed in the rest of it?   Big-Brain Little-Brain is now accepted science for the cause of deja vu.   I cannot find any reference to the possibility that a similar sort of brain-skip could be the cause of some "religious experiences".

Thanks for your kind understanding.

BE2

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

Guest Lox........I'm surprised georgiansilver was still awake to post a comment. ;-)....Why would I not be awake enough to post such a comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:47 PM

My dear bill,

Thank you for your concern. I feel fine.

I fail to see that my response was remotely uncivil, being so dry and academic that it almost sent me to sleep writing it.

I'm surprised georgiansilver was still awake to post a comment. ;-)

The simple reality of your response to susans remark is that you were making assumptions about what being "anglican" means to her, and therefore imposing your definition of it on her, thus putting words in her mouth.

A nintelligent line of enquiry in my experience first ascertains what it is enquiring about before offering a solution.

And your solution, phrased as a question, was so vague and idealized that we as fellow enquirers are left about as nourished intellectually as a Mconalds employee after a hard shift.

Cutting but civil.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:44 PM

Just been reading the lovely poet Philip Larkin.

"Religion......that moth-eaten musical brocade / created to pretend we never die"

Isn't that just beautiful......What a sense of peace it gives..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,Bill Blake
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:05 PM

That was me, just above.   Seriously, people, I'm a little amazed at the bile the questions turned up. Happy Thanksgiving, to the Yanks, and happy whatever to the Brits.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 02:56 PM

Oh, I get it: not supposed to ask certain sorts of questions. Gosh, I'm sorry. My chain wasn't pulled. Susan came out boiling, and I thought it interesting.

The comment "... theology explains away all that is inexplicible ..." sounds like a perfectly reasonable statement to me. And it relates (if you'd all calm down and think about it) to the original post.

If you question whether theology is possibly a limiting conceptual (brain) filter, certain folks get riled very quickly. Gosh I'm sorry.

Is this now a forum guarded by the theological thought police? Can't ask WYSYWIG an earnest question in response to her boiling Anglican blood?

Have some more turkey, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 02:34 PM

Guest Bill Blake. Who pulled your chain? If, summoning all your brainpower, all you can do is provoke people why bother? Take it out on your wife or your pet and leave people here in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,Bill Blake
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 02:20 PM

Take a deep breath, lox. Just because you don't have a civil response doesn't make my questions wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:37 PM

Bill, you have clearly completely misunderstood the rationale of Susan's point.

She is saying that it is not necessarily incompatible to have both religious belief and an intelligent enquiring mind.

You obviously don't share the former, and interestingly your response suggests that you lack the latter as well or you might have been able to respond in a relevant fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST,Bill Blake
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:27 PM

"As an Anglican, comfortable with a theology where thinking is an important and supported activity, phrases like that one really get my blood boiling."


Susan, is there any possibility that who or what you really are might be infinitely more vast than this "Anglican" identity?

How do you know but ev'ry bird that cuts its airy way is a vast world of delight, clos'd by your theology?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:20 PM

You know, I had a gut feeling it would be there...

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:12 PM

Can I be a spoilsport?

For those of you taking this thread at face value, google enteric nervous sysyem and see where it is located...

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Slag
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 12:53 PM

Obviously, one who doesn't get the joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 12:27 PM

Humph. I was hoping for an actual discussion. Thanks to those who tried.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Slag
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 11:01 AM

The strain on my brain is mainly a large pain. The duramater (Tough Mother) and the piamater (Little Mother) don't seem to matter at all. It's the little grey (gray?) cells that make the big difference, in all their convoluted ways. Left, right, hypocampus, cerebellum (antebellum?) (unky-bellum? [they're always at it]). Medulla ah-bologny-- thus saith the Medulla Oblongata, "The Libido is intact, the race will survive" (copyrighted 1994) by yours truly. We are the brain. The brain is us. I will now get a lobotomy and join the Democratic Party!! (and as the boos and hisses [and herses] subside)...or a complete cranial excuvation and join the Republican Party (Thunderous applesauce from all those who don't really get the joke). Yes the Mind is a terrible thing, to waste. Consider yourselves lightened.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:01 AM

I feel sorry for men... Firstly; God, Nature, Evolution, call it what you will, gives them only enough blood to run one brain at a time - now we discover that they have THREE brains. Explains a lot.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:08 AM

coming from a different perspective, Daniel Dennett has formulated a concept of the relationship between the conscious and unconsioucs functioning of the brain, which agrees in may respects with that. the main difference is that it doesn't require the two functions (recation and evaluation, if you like) to be located in separate organs. But it makes experiment design much easier if they are.

One of the interesting characteristics of this concept is that it produces a result very close to the traditional religious concept of soul- a part of you which is conscious, but separate from the 'earthly' bodily functions, and which is often betrayed by the weak flesh but can also transcend it. the main difference is that it's not immortal, and is as purely physical as the other brain, and just as easily damaged by trauma, chemicals, radiation etc.

Interestingly, Dennett's ideas also have a place for Satan and possession by demons- except that he would call them memes which happen to be destructive to society and/ or the host. So the interesting question is: where do memes operate? In the LB or the BB or in the connection between the two?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 02:47 AM

BTW, I've always heard "Big Brain - Little Brain" used as a reference to the one in the skull and the one in the penis. :~)

~Susan

So I suspect that the nature of the individual man would reflect which is bigger in his case.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 12:23 AM

Interesting you should mention idio-savants, Ebbie. I just watched a fascinating documentary on the CBC tonight about a young savant from London. He is extremely gifted both mathematically and linguisticly.

He has been diagnosed as autistic, but with a difference. Unlike most with autism, he not only functions very well on a social level, he can communicate how he is processing numbers in his brain. (basically they take on shapes and colour and appear as pieces of a jigsaw puzzle) During the documentary he learned to speak extremely functional and subtley nuanced Icelandic in 7 days.

The scientists who were working with him, suggested that what was going on in his brain was similar to what BaldEagle2 has outlined.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: number 6
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:52 PM

Sorta like RAM (random access memory) and ROM (read only memory).

Hmmmmmmmm .....


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM

I've got a very narrow pipe in my small brain ... (?) ...

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:23 PM

Child Prodigies and 'idio-savant's usually only have a very narrow pipe to a very small area of the Big Brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 05:49 PM

Interesting material to explore.

Question: Is it possible that the condition or person that used to be called 'idio-savant' somehow taps into the Big Brain? And child prodigies- might they have unwittingly found a path to the Big Brain unknown to the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:26 PM

The preacher said:

"A philosopher is like a blind man searching in the dark for something that isn't there."

The philospher said:

"Just like a preacher, except the preacher finds it."

??????

John

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:19 PM

..what about Faith?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:12 PM

I'm sorry, you lost me when you said I'm not a God.

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

BOTH my brains are hurting now !

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

Cardboard fish?

Subject: RE: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 03:54 PM

... theology explains away all that is inexplicible ...

As an Anglican, comfortable with a theology where thinking is an important and supported activity, phrases like that one really get my blood boiling.

BTW, I've always heard "Big Brain - Little Brain" used as a reference to the one in the skull and the one in the penis. :~)

~Susan

Subject: BS: Big Brain - Little Brain : Religions roots?
From: BaldEagle2
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 03:50 PM

The concept of Big Brain, Little Brain has been around since about 1985.   In the medical profession, "Little Brain" generally refers to the enteric nervous system, while "Big Brain" is all the rest of the cerebral cortex and its gray matter.

To simplify, there is a little part of the brain which sees and hears the outside world, processes language and is aware of the body's surroundings.   It is your conciousness.   It is a tiny part of the brain as a whole.

And the rest of the brain is where memories are stored, patterns compared, reflexes invoked, and the whole nervous system kept under control.   By comparison to the conscious part of the brain, it is really, really massive.

The latest research, using high technology machinery, suggests that Little Brain processes about 2,000 bits of data per second.   In the scheme of things, a reasonable sized computer, doing a reasonable job.

The same study shows that Big Brain processes about 4 billion bits of data per second.   It has access to every waking memory, every dream, every sensation you have ever experienced.   When you hear beautiful music, it has the power to make you cry.

The problem we have : the big big problem we all have : is that Little Brain and Big Brain have no simple method of communicating with each other.

For instance, in mid-sentence you may find that you suddenly realise
that you have forgotten the topic under discussion.   A phenomenom so common, it is called a "Brain-Skip" (or other similar meaning phrase for your particular part of the world).

Now just think that through: Big Brain has access to every memory of every experience you ever had - and yet it cannot tell you something as recent as a few seconds ago.   

It would seem that Big Brain simply has no real concept of language per se: that is the province of Little Brain.   And Little Brain has no direct access to all those memory stores.

Big Brain - Little Brain explains such phenomena as deja vu, fear of public speaking, dream mechanisms and so on.   (If anyone wants, I can go into details, perhaps off line).

The fascinating insight (for me) is that it might also explain where all religions come from.

The thing is, is that Little Brain has no idea of the existence of Big Brain.   Even with all the data and facts to hand, none of us are really aware of our own Big Brain.   It surrounds our Little Brain, and is perhaps thereby totally invisible to us.

But suppose for a moment, you did become aware of your own Big Brain. What on earth would you make of it?   At a moment of great stress, emotion or whatever, you were suddenly aware that you were in the presence of someing about 2,000,000 times smarter than you, knew every single thing that you had ever done, and was everywhere in the universe that you had ever been.

Wow.   Obviously you have been in the presence of a god.

And obviously this god is not you yourself - you know you are not a God.   Even the most feeble attempts of yours to perform a miracle failed miserably - so the God you just met must have been an external being.

And when our ancestors had such experiences, they found that others in their tribe had near identical experiences.   It became clear to them that the same external entity had revealed itself to each of them.   An enitity which knew all things, was omnipotent, and which never revealed itself or its purpose to them in any regular or systematic manner.

In the way theology explains away all that is inexplicible, these new emergent theologies were first required to explain themselves away. And the different explanations that each tribe came up with gave us commonality and diversity in our religions.

Perhaps.   A point worthy of debate, nicht wahr?