BS: Happy Holiday?

Subject: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 08:38 AM

Here in the UK, 'Happy Holiday' is likely to be heard a lot more often than 'Happy Christmas', because people are being persuaded that they may be causing upset to those with other religious beliefs.

It has been 'Christmas' in the UK for a very long time - it is a tradition. If you visit a predominantly Jewish country, you don't expect to see 'Christmas' - the same applies to a predominantly Moslem (Muslim) country.

Yes, I agree the UK has a diverse poulation with diverse beliefs, but this is 'political correctness' gone mad. It is really suggesting that it is okay for people to be intolerant of the beliefs of others, which is the opposite intention from that put forward.

Should we now abolish 'New Year' on the grounds that it may offend the Chinese community, whose New Year differs from the Gregorian? After all, Gregory was a pope...

I am well aware that there are as many arguments for as there are against; all I'm saying is... why can't we leave things alone?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 08:54 AM

So what should I say when my Muslim/Jewish/Hindu colleagues wish me a merry Christmas?

I wish them a happy Eid/Channukah/Diwali when appropriate, so why shouldn't they acknowledge my religious beliefs if they wish?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:02 AM

Eggcisely!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:08 AM

I'm in agreement with you Bernard. I can see no reason why, in this day and age, any country should be expected to change its own customs to prevent 'offence' to newcomers, particularly when, it seems, the vast majority of those newcomers have no problem with the celebrations. Many of these newcomers have their own cultural celebrations and no-one is suggesting that the names of those be changed to avoid giving offence to other religious groups!

The argument may be made that, in the past, Europeans have forced their own culture and religious beliefs on others and I would agree that that is not something that I could be proud of. However, does that mean that those of European/Christian descent do not have the right to oppose this type of behaviour in their own country today? Have we not moved on from the behaviours of the past in any way?

I am not a Christian and Christmas is not a religious holiday for me. I do, however, celebrate it as a time of coming together with friends and loved ones and do not get upset at the religious connotations surrounding the day.

It is my understanding that the time was a major festival prior to the rise of Christianity and that that festival was subborned into the celebration of Christ's birth. Whatever the history it is now the custom that this holiday is known as Christmas and I do feel that those who want to try and force these changes probably have more of a problem with racial prejudice than those they purport to be 'helping'. "He who sees the dirty meaning in everything probably has a dirty mind"

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:26 AM

Yup. It's got more to do with the Solstice than anything else.

The same applies to Easter - another pagan festival hijacked by Christianity!

Organised religion has got a lot to answer for, and a lot to recommend it. It doesn't suit me, though.

Live and let live...

"He who sees the dirty meaning in everything probably has a dirty mind"...

Pantomime is a good example... many of the jokes contain innuendo, which is funny to children on one level, and funny to adults on a different level. That doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong to use such jokes! Okay, different argument, but the parallel is valid.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:30 AM

Across the road from me are two Muslim families. I get a Christmas card from each of them every year, and I send them one each, too. It's been that way as long as I can remember, and I've lived here for 26 years!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:51 AM

I can honestly say I have NEVER heard anyone in the UK wish anyone Happy Holiday! Signs everywhere say Merry Christmas and that is what I hear most people say in shops etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 10:06 AM

Jane - I think it depends where in the UK you are. I know that Birmingham was using 'Winter Festival' at one time - not sure if that is still the case. There was also a big fuss about one chain of charity shops refusing to sell religious Christmas cards for fear of causing offence.

During the recent World Cup taxis in the Staines area were banned by the local council from flying the St George flag, in case it caused offence to other people. PC is there, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 10:28 AM

Inverse discrimination, I call it...

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:04 PM

Same here in Canada. Christmas is the holiday that dare not speak its' name. At my daughters primary school they had a winter concert..every culture was represented..except that of the vast majority of kids. Christmas songs, carols or any mention of the C word was strictly forbidden. The school administration got a lot of complaints and replied that it did not wish to give offence...except to the 90% of the students who celebrate christmas. Our Family will not attend such school events in future. I am very tired of being told that my religion and culture are offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:15 PM

In the US it's driven by the fear of breakdown in church/state division-----a fear which I feel is vastly overrated--but, interestingly enough, seems to be shared by many Mudcatters.

And in fact, as is illustrated here, this attempt to purge all traces of religion from public life has caused a strong reaction on the other side--and plays into the sense of the so-called Religious Right that THEY are under attack..

So both the "Religious Right" and those who reject organized religion feel under siege by the other--truly a spectacular achievement.

But I suspect that those of us in the middle would be glad to take Mao's advice and "Let 1,000 flowers bloom"---including in the schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Holiday?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:28 PM

Christmas is not only a religous but a cultural event. It seems to me that western culture is a no no, even in the west. I cannot imagine any other part of the world banning its cultural events because they may offend those who are not of that culture. Madness and highly resent by many. As for Christmas making others feel excluded...bloddy rubbish.