Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)

Subject: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: Rank
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:07 PM

While trying to find out some information on "Ratase" I came across Miss Bailey's Ghost in John Ashton's publication of 1888 (Modern Street Ballads). This is about the same as Miss Bailey in the Digitrad. I am assuming that Ratafee (circa 1800/50) (also Ratafia) is an alternative spelling to Ratase (circa 1740), an s being written as a f in earlier times.

Ratafee, by the way, is a liqueur made from brandy and wine an flavoured with the kernals of e.g. peach, apricot, plum and bitter almonds. In the 1700's this may have been done to make bad spirit drinkable perhaps?

Another version of the song had Captain Smith drinking turpentine.

Does anybody know anything about ratase or ratafee? I was also wandering if you drank a lot of it and became ratased, whether this could be the origin of the term ratarsed, as in very drunk.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:18 PM

Googled but "ratafee" only got the same definition you gave (sweet liqueur of wine or brandy flavored with fruit kernels). "Ratase" got me a lot of pages in a language that I cannot read (Finnish or something Eastern European, maybe). I've plenty of references to drinking turpentine but mostly in blues lyrics.

Although the pun on "ratased" was pretty good.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:26 PM

Ratafia

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:48 PM

Blurb here.

No experience with the stuff myself but apparently it's still alive and well.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: Hollowfox
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 03:55 PM

I believe that I have a couple of recipes at home, if anybody'd like them. I first heard of the stuff through the Unfortunate Miss Bailey as well. the Kingston Trio called it ratafia, which they explained in a brief prologue, and Burl Ives called the drink turpentine. I just thought he was censoring out the mention of liquor in a humorous way. I did get the record while I was still a kid after all.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:36 PM

Ratafia, spelling in the OED. First mentioned in 1699 by Lister in his Journey to Paris; origin unknown. A cordial or liqueur flavored with certain fruits or their kernels, usually almond or peach-, apricot- and cherry kernels.
The author, Thackeray, in 1856 said half-a-dozen glasses "made him forget all his woes and his losses."
In 1719, D'Urfey mentionedit in his "Pills ..." "Farwel cold tea and ratafee."

The name also is applied to a kind of cherry.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 12:05 PM

I suspect that the version thought of in Miss Bailey is much harsher. Why else would he have "lost his stomach daily?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 01:40 PM

And here was me, thinking a ratafia was a kind of biscuit. I must have led a sheltered life.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Joe_F
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM

EBarnacle: In view of the order in which those developments are mentioned, I always thought that he took to drinking ratafia to console himself for his upset stomach -- and, of course, his wicked conscience.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 10:26 AM

And here was me, thinking a ratafia was a kind of biscuit. I must have led a sheltered life

I think these are the little biscuits (or do they call them cookies in the US?) that you dunk in the liqueur, like they do in Italy. Slurp!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: MMario
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 10:37 AM

according to Epicurious:

ratafia
[rat-uh-FEE-uh]
A sweet French APÉRITIF made from a mixture of unfermented grape juice and BRANDY. The best known are Ratafia de Bourgogne and Ratafia de Champagne. Ratafia is similar to the better-known PINEAU DES CHARENTES

in various romance novels ratafia is mentioned as a sicky sweet drink served to ladies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 10:54 AM

Joe F, the full sequence is "He took to drinking Ratafia and lost his stomach daily." Now I know a lady who lost her stomach to Yukon Jack many years ago but have not had any direct experience with ratafia.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 11:19 AM

I believe it is "His wicked conscience troubled him -- he lost his stomach daily. He took to drinking ratafia, and thought upon Miss Bailey".

This is classic guilt syndrome -- to "lose one's stomach" meaning to be off one's feed, or lose one's appetite. The guilt, not the ratafia, is the agent of the syndrome.

A

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 11:23 AM

You're right, I got my memory twisted and lost my connection before I could correct it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Abby Sale
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 09:29 PM

I also sing & happy? "Unfortunate Miss Bailey" on August 7.

Seems that on August 7, 1776, before George Washington's defence of NY City, he ordered as supplies one case of Ratafia as well as much other wine and many cheeses.

Cited in Playboy July 2006, p43, from an unnamed Mt Vernon museum.

For the little it's worth, note that:
        His wicked conscience smited him,
        He lost his stomach daily,
        He took to drinking ratafia
        And thought upon Miss Bailey.

Ie, he took to drinking it after losing his stomach.

(Of course, I only read Playboy for the considerable scholarly information it provides.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Rank
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 01:44 PM

I am not sure of the drinking properties of turpentine, though I have heard of down and outs drinking it. About 1740ish when gin was becoming a serious problem in London, there are references to turpentine and sulphuric acid being added to gin. Whether this was done to make it taste better, give it a kick, or to dilute it with cheap adulterants I don't know.

As regards the origin of ratarsed, I have put a feeler out with a CAMERA friend. They ought to be experts on drink related matters.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 02:22 PM

rat-arsed?
rat-assed?
Both seem to have appeared since the 1970's.
No relation to ratafia.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 02:26 PM

CAMERA is a new one on me. I imagine they'd take pictures of glasses of beer rather than drink them....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: Rank
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:07 PM

Sorry I meant CAMRA Campaign for real ale

Subject: RE: Folklore: Ratafee (strong drink)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 05:35 PM

McGofH

The ultimate in secret societies?

Reagrds