Lyr Req: Railroading over the Great Divide?

Subject: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From:
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 01:59 PM

I'm looking for the complete lyrics to Railroading Over the Great Divide. Thanks for your help ! [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 02:39 PM

I know Steve Gillette does a song called "Railroading on the Great Divide." The chorus goes something like:

"Railroading on the Great Divide, Nothing around us but the Rockies and sky."

If that's it, I can try to dig it out for you. It isn't in my memory banks.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From:
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 03:16 PM

Isn't that a Utah Phillips song?

Subject: Lyr Add: RAILROADING ON THE GREAT DIVIDE
From: Mudjack
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 03:50 PM

Utah Phillips does it but its "byline" is Sarah Carter 1975. I believe Sarah is of the famous Carter family.
Utah uses it as an interlude to some of his great political satire, weaving in and out of the song.

Nineteen sixteen I left my old home
Way out west no money, no home,
I went drifting along with the tide
And landed on the great divide,

* Railroading on the great divide,
Nothing around me but the Rockies and sky
There you'll find me as the years go by,
Railroading on the great divide

Ask any old-timer in old Cheyenne
Wyoming railroading's the best in this land
A long steel rail and a short cross-tie
I laid across the great divide *

As I look out over the trees,
Number three's coming the fastest on wheels
Through old Laramie she glides with pride
And rolls across the great divide. *

Subject: Lyr Add: RAILROADING ON THE GREAT DIVIDE
From: rich r
Date: 15 Mar 99 - 11:56 PM

The following text is from Norm Cohen's book, Long Steel Rail. He says it was written by Sara Carter Bayes and recorded in 1952 by the A. P. Carter Family (A P Carter, Sara Carter Bayes and children Joe and Janette). Cohen transcribed the words from the recording, but made one geographical correction. The recording mentions the town of Lamar, which is in Colorado. The town of Laramie is in Wyoming.

RAILROADING ON THE GREAT DIVIDE
(Sara Carter Bayes, 1952 or before)

Nineteen and sixteen I started to roam
Out in the West, no money, no home;
I went drifting along with the tide,
I landed on the Great Divide.

CH:
Railroading on the Great Divide,
Nothing around me but Rockies and sky:
There you'll find me as years go by,
Railroading on the Great Divide.

Ask any old-timer from Old Cheyenne,
Railroad in Wyoming, the best in the land
The long steel rails, the short crossties
I laid across the Great Divide.

CH

As I looked out across the breeze
Number Three coming, the fastest on wheels;
Through old Laramie (Lamar) she glides with pride,
And rolls across the Great Divide.

CH

rich r ^^

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 16 Mar 99 - 12:29 AM

I heard the second line of the second verse as "Railroadin' in Wyoming's the best in the land."

I always thought the first line of the last verse was: "As I look down along the rails," which makes for a better rhyme with "wheels," but far be it from me to doubt Norm Cohen. I've been looking for a used copy of his book for months! Anybody got one they want to get rid of?

Sandy

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Jon W.
Date: 16 Mar 99 - 02:22 PM

I've got a recording of it by the Deseret String Band when Skip Gorman was a member - I'm pretty sure he sings "across the fields" in the last verse which is an even better rhyme.

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 16 Mar 99 - 04:36 PM

May be a better rhyme, but the fast express doesn't run on grass! When Skip recorded the song for Folk-Legacy, he sang "Ask any old-timer in old Cheyenne, railroading in Montana's (!) the best in the land." I suggested that he might want to do it again and give the credit to Wyoming, but he thought I was being too much of a stickler for words. Maybe I was.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 99 - 02:57 AM

As one who's lived on both sides of the Divide and driven over it too many times to remember, I'd think the glories of laying the track would be sung more about COlorado. The Great Divide in Wyoming ain't that great; it just sort of a gradual incline. After crossing the high peaks of CO, when one passes a sign in Wyoming that says you're at the top of the Continental Divide, it seems a bit of a joke, and I live there! Of course, the altitude is higher, but not nearly as it is in CO.

BTW, my great-uncle was the engineer for the Moffat Tunnel in CO and my great-grandfather was the one who engineered the trackbed up through Glenwood Canyon from Glenwood Springs to Eagle on the Western Slope of CO.

When I was 13, my parents ran the old "Pitkin Hilton" in the old gold rush town of Pitkin, CO, up above Gunnison for the summer. Up above it is the Alpine Tunnel. If I remember correctly, it was the highest narow gauge rr tunnel in the world. All I really remember is I made some good money that summer selling old rr spikes to the tourists for 50 cents a piece!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Jon W.
Date: 17 Mar 99 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, Sandy, he sings "Montana" on the recording I've got also.

I assumed he was looking across the fields at the tracks. But then again Wyoming doesn't have that many fields does it? It's more ranch country than farm country, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 99 - 01:42 PM

Down by Cheyenne, it might becows ya' see, but it's mosly fields. It looks a lot like eastern Colorado without the dramatic backdrop of the Rockies in the west. Laramie is more in a valleya nd surrounded by smaller mtns.

One could definitely look over the fields in Cheyenne. Its all open prairie.

kat

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 99 - 06:33 PM

kat!!..my father was on the Western Union line gang which ran the telegraph lines up to the Moffat tunnel (and from Salida to Denver...etc.)I have old black and white photos of his gang posed up by the tunnel....the neatest gift I ever found for him was a coffee table book of the history of that tunnel! About 25 years ago, a friend & I found our way to the westen portal where those pictures were taken.

My earliest years were spent in a '35 Chevy bouncing around in those mountains..(1939-41)..my mother says we nearly slid off of Battle Mountain one winter..

I do that song on the autoharp...I think I heard Mike Seeger do it that way years ago...

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 99 - 08:04 PM

Bill D.: yo'll be interested to know that last year I heard, I kid you not, that the Moffat Tunnel is for sale!

And, I can relate to almost sliding off the mountains. Ah...the Colorado Rockies before the Eisenhower Tunnel! My dad tells some pretty hairaising stories about trundling off in the mountains with mom when they were young, about teh time you said you were there. Have you ever been over Red Mountain Pass, from Ouray to Silverton, then on to Durango? It's still very awesome and scary to a flatlander; they hug the inside lane A LOT!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Jon W.
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 10:28 AM

Now you're talking about my childhood stomping grounds - our family lived in Rico, CO during my grade school years. My dad had an old Chevy pickup and once in a while he'd load us up in the back and drive the dirt (or more accurately, rock) road from Ophir to Silverton, sometimes stopping at Crystal Lake (a glacier-fed pond) to drown some worms.

The last time I drove from Durango to Silverton was about 1984. I was married by then, and my wife won't let us go on that road anymore. I don't see why not--it's paved and everything.

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Bert
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 10:37 AM

This woman pulls into a filling station in Woodland Park and enquires about the condition of the road through Wilkerson Pass.

The guy says "It's a paved road"

She replies "How paved?"

The guy says "Just like this road, all the way. Why?"

Turns out she had just come up from Canon City and someone had directed her through Phantom Canyon. The poor woman was a nervous wreck by the time she reached Woodland Park.

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:26 PM

Hey! My sister was a camp counselor at Woodland Park!

We used to go camping on Shrine Pass. Going into Leadville, we were always thrilled to spot the Mount of the Holy Cross (not for religious reasons).

In 1981/2 (can't remember) we drove the DIRT pass (Cottonwood?) from over by Aspen to Tincup, then down into Pitkin, Gold Hill, and Gunnison. Saw some rocky mountain sheep up really close- great pics.

My uncles used to go fishing way up above Redstone, Marble, and Carbondale, long before it became so well known and over populated. My grandparents all settled in the Carbondale to New Castle area. I spent from 2nd grade through high school in Grd. Jct. Because of my mom and dad's backgrounds of growing up on the Western Slope, we tromped all over camping, picnicing and visiting my older sisters at Western State and Ft. Lewis Colleges, as well as my brother at DU. It was a pretty neat childhood!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 12:51 PM

Kat..you said your Grandparents settled in the Newcastle to Carbondale area. Does that mean they were coal-mining folk? Are you familiar with the Newcastle Mining Disaster? Makes me wonder if there were any songs that came out of that. If my memory serves, 20 or more people from Newcastle were killed when a coal dust explosion hit the mines. Mainly Cornish immigrants, I think. Happened around the 1890's.

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 05:50 PM

kat...yep...I have ridden over the "Million Dollar Highway"..as they called that road when it was new...the only thing I regret is never taking the train...the narrow gauge railway to Ouray...maybe someday..(I assume it still runs...great tourist attraction)

but for REAL fun...have you ever taken the back road out of Central City down to I-70 near Georgetown? The locals call it the "Oh My God Road"...and there is a wonderful old cemetary back up there behind Central City...with those quaint tombstones full of maudlin inscriptions..

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 07:23 PM

Bill D: can't be the ONLY "Oh my gawd" road in Colorado! I don't remember being downt hat one, but do remember others. Yes, the train is still running and it is the ride of a lifetime. You know, it goes from Ouray all the way to Durango.

LEJ: Yes, I've heard a lot about the mining disaster and will ask my dad if any songs came of it, as he grew up right there on Divide "crik". When I was a child, they told us you could still see smoke once in awhile, that the fires were expected to burn forever inside the hills.

My folk were in Leadville first and were from Nova Scotia and Virginia, mostly, with Native American along the way in WI or MI. The same gr-uncle who became an engineer was an early "muleskinner"(ore-wagon driver) there; my Crawford grandmother graduated from Normal School there and became a teacher. My grandfather Hudson, whom she married, was born in a log cabin up above Glenwood Springs in the middle of winter, as his parents had unwisely decided to cross the divide when it took a lot longer to do so than now!

All of my ancestors moved to the Western slope to settle in as ranchers; had a big ranch, most of which, as I've heard it, is an elk refuge now. They lost it for one hundred dollars in taxes during the depression. Speaking of cemeteries, in Jan. we took mom's ashes to little Highland Cemetery up above New Castle, where they are all buried, including her folks who had the company general store in New Castle. That grandad also had the first lending library in New Castle.

There's lots more, but I'm working on getting it into a book, along with a bunch of early pictures of the ranch, my grandad in full cowboy gear, etc. Finally got dad to tape is "memoirs" and he's promising more, along with his recitation of his father's poetry ....good stuff.

I'm afeared for the 'Cat's system, so will stop with the personal history lesson. This is really fun, though. Thanks for asking!

kat

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 09:12 PM

LEJ & Bill D.: Gawd! Please don't tell my dad! I had him growing up on the wrong creek! He grew on ole' "Garfield Crik".

kat

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Night Owl
Date: 18 Mar 99 - 11:57 PM

kat....I know this is supposed to be about "..The great divide" but I'm learning through the threads that SOME diversions are OK. I've been trying over the years to tape some of my mother's stories and songs from her childhood but she freezes as soon as she sees the mike. I've also tried hiding the mike from her sight, but, being my mother, she knew I was "up to no good". How did you get your dad to record his stories and did you have to give him key words to initiate specific stories?

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 12:39 AM

Night Owl,

Sorry, I didn't, other than keeping after him to do it. He did it himself. He's always performed and often used a mike then. He did have some trouble with just speaking into it, but....he's a natural born storyteller, born of natural born storytellers, so...I'm afraid I'm not much use.

Have you tried a voice activated recorder? That way it could be hidden and she'd maybe not know it, as you wouldn't have to turn it on?

Dad told me this year, when I scanne din all of the old pictures of his dad and all, that those pictures brought to mind many more stories that he would record for me. Maybe pictures would be a good way to prompt your mom?

There are some books out, one of which I bought for him, but it was yuppie foolishness...written with questions for those of great wealth and so-called normal life,NOT for people who'd lived anything of excitement or untoward or out of the ordinary.

The other thing you might ask her to do is write it down. My grandmother did that when she was convalescing with a broken right arm; made herself learn to write lefthanded and wrote out wonderful stories of growing up as a pioneer in Boulder, Colorado. Or you could make a list of things you've always wanted to know more about: the old mandolin, grandfather's old pipe, and old picture, etc.

Maybe I'll write a book for the unusual, i.e. really normal, with trials, tribulations, joys and various challenges of life tye people who could pass on their stories to the "seventh generation".

Also, have you tried videotaping her? That would be even better in some ways. I hope to get over to Utah this Spring to do that with my dad.

Hope this helps and remember digression is good for the soul!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Night Owl
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 12:57 AM

kat...thanks for the suggestions.....her pictures would be worth a try. She just does not recognize the value I see in her stories and songs, and has lived her life, unfortunately, being embarassed about growing up on a chicken farm....being the last family in town to get electricity, an automobile etc.,etc. I REALLY appreciate your response...Thanks again!

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 01:24 AM

Night owl,

Another idea would be to find books, videotapes, etc. of others with similiar backgrounds as your mom who've told their stories, perhaps in a proud way, so that she might see by example, the value of it all?

In my family being the last for electricity etc. was what real pioneering etc. was all about and in fact the summer my son was a newborn, my ex and I lived in a tent, by choice, from early spring to late October. Mom and Dad lived in a tent for a summer during WWII at Camp Hale near Leadville, CO. where dad put together and welded the ski lift for the troops to train for the Alps on. I think it's the one which is on Copper Mtn.

All the best and thansk for asking,

kat

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: Lew / Hurdy Gurdy
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 03:03 PM

Just on note that first line of the verse - I have always sung it as:

As I looked out across the FIELDS.

Hope that helps!

Lew

Subject: RE: Railroading Over The Great Divide
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 99 - 08:41 PM

LEJ: about that mining disaster and songs: I called Dad. He was born in 1916, so wasn't around for the really bad ones, but does remember a few men being lost every year while the mines were going. The worst ones he'd heard of were in 1903, 06, 10, 13/14.

He confirmed my memory: they used to point to the "hogbakc", a ridge of hills across the river, where the mines were deep in the earth. They would tell us not only how the fires still burn, but also that there were many men buried and never retrieved because of the danger, etc. I remember being fascinated with trying to imagine what that must have been like. I guess I was a little gothic as a child!

Anyway, he didn't remember any songs about those events. Had never heard of The New Castle Disaster. Figured it was probably too close to home for anyone there to want to write a song about it.

He did tell me a "crude" version of "16 tons" came out of the strike in Trinidad. And, then he was reminded of an old song still popular in the 30's, which I am now going to look for, for him, called "Take Me Back To Colorado"

It's been fun! Thanks for listening guys!

katlaughing