BS: Nightime leg cramps

Subject: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 10:56 AM

It seems like every few months I'll have a session of leg cramps at night. There are two different types. Some hit the back of the lower legs. They hurt like hell but usually I can get up and stretch them myself. And often the next day I'll limp a bit as a result. The other type will go after the inner thigh. They start on the inside of the knee and radiate up to the top of the leg – right where the leg joins the body. And these suckers really hurt. It's enough to make a grown man mew like a newborn kitten. Usually the only thing that will get them to stop is deep pressure on the two points where the pain begins and ends.

I take calcium, drink plenty of water and eat bananas for potassium. My sister suggests drinking tonic water at night for the quinine. What else would you suggest? I have an appointment to see my new doctor anyway { we just moved } so I'll bring this up with him too but I was wondering if anyone else had this problem and what they do about it.

Something else – I can't prove this but I think this usually happens while I dreaming. I don't know if there is any relationship there or not. And yes our new house has two story's but this started long ago when we were living in a one story house.

Getting older is not for sissies.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:17 AM

I have had them and still have them. Exactly what you describe, Wesley.

I told one doctor who said I should exercise more. Well, okay. When I got out here to Idaho I told the doctor out here and he prescribed Relais (?? -- it's advertised on TV). Didn't work. So he told me to take 325 mg. capsules of quinine. This has probably led to a hearing loss, as quinine is ototoxic (kills off the hairs in your middle ear and they don't grow back). Now I'm on a muscle relaxant; it seems to help.

Yes, I get plenty of calcium and potassium -- that was the first things I started.

If you do take quinine, WATCH IT!!!! I'm looking at bilateral hearing aids now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Alba
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:21 AM

You might want to add Vitamin E in the mix too Wesley and Rapaire.

Leg Cramps are....OUCH!!
Hope you find some relief soon.
Love
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM

I normally take vitamin E but I ran out recently. I'll get some more. The calcium suppliment I take is called Calcet. And it has really helped.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM

Try eating more salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: pdq
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:48 AM

In the Summer, heavy perspiration may cause a loss of salt (Sodium), therefore leading to cramps. In the Winter, it is likely that you have too much salt, not too little.

Potassium is (in some ways) a balance to Sodium. Very few people get enough. Look for vegetables that are high in Potassium. Cut down over-salting foods in the Winter.

Exercise is needed, but be very conservative, especially as you get older. Walking a reasonable distance each day is great. Also steatching and aerobics are fine, but not classic weight-lifting. Even Arnold is looking more normal every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:21 PM

Regular mild exercise. Intermittent strong exercise can give you cramps. And keep your legs warm, if your legs suddenly get cold they will cramp.

And what the others said about salt and potassium.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:23 PM

i sometimes get these too
and if i can stand it I
try to reach for my toes
and pull to stretch the
calf muscle. sometimes
the cramp won't allow the
leg to straighten.

some people with siezures
have muscle contractions
so intense that the bones
break under the pressure.

yikes!

there is a type of calcium
from Cr. Bronner (of soap
fame) which is derived from
carrots.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:34 PM

I'm amazed nobody has mentioned magnesium yet. I was told that by my naturopath a few years ago, and it definitely works. I take a magnesium supplement called Bio Magnesium which also has calcium, vitamin B6, vitamin D3 and manganese. It's made in Australia by Blackmores, but there are probably equivalent products in other countries.

One thing that is worth mentioning is that calcium and magnesium work together, and an over supply of one can cause a deficiency in the other, so they need to be taken together in the right balance.

Sometimes I get lazy and forget to take them for a while, until another leg cramp reminds me, and I start taking them again. If I happen to have run out, I will keep getting leg cramps until I start on them again, then the effect is very quick - within 24 hours I'm back to normal. So it's obvious to me that they make a difference. It's been a few months now since I last woke up with a cramp.

Wesley, it's interesting what you said about getting cramps while you're dreaming. I can see why that would be. I think when you are dreaming, you tense up muscles - as if you were actually doing the thing you are dreaming you are doing - if you get my meaning. I've caught myself tensing up a muscle as part of a dream and then waking up because it has caused a cramp - particularly in my case if I extend my foot and curl the instep up a bit, it will cramp (if I haven't been taking my magnesium) and the only way to get rid of that is to slowly flex my foot the other way and stretch the muscle.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:30 PM

My very large modern medical book only mentions salt intake and suggests that a regular salt intake will allay the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: freightdawg
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:48 PM

Are you pregnant? My wife had horrible leg cramps when she was pregnant. Wake up screaming in the middle of the night and, after I got my heart rate down, I had to push her toes back and give her calf muscle a major massage.

Just a thought.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:56 PM

I came accross a really stupid idea in a doctor's newspaper column a couple of years ago; some people were claiming that if you put a bar of soap, even a little motel bar, under the bottom sheetin your bed in your leg area, it would relieve leg cramps. I had been having them bad, frequently, and we had motel soaps kicking around, so I figured it was a nothin'-to-lose thing.

Now my question is, "can you get a placebo effect from something you don't believe in at all"?. This seems about a likely as rubbing a penny on a wart and burying the penny; but I've had at least 80-90% less cramps, and then usually not all that painful, for a couple of years now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:10 PM

Some years ago my employer sent me on a week long course in Bournemouth. The course was held in a hotel in that resort. The hotel was air-conditioned and overheated. I vividly remember that this establishment had carpets made of some synthetic material and, as the air was very dry, anyone wearing shoes with synthetic soles (eg. me!)suffered electric shocks every time they touched a hotel fitting which allowed the accumulated electrostatic charge to run to earth (ouch!).
The other painful aspect of this course was excrutiating night cramps. Most of each day was spent in lectures and much water was drunk - both to counter the atmospheric dryness and, possibly, the booorredom!! This, inevitably, led to more visits to the toilet and the loss of sodium. I found that I actually craved salt and, as the hotel salt cellars tended to be blocked I had to resort to going out to buy salted peanuts; and these effectively stopped the cramps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:25 PM

The ones in the calf go away instantly if you get hold of your toes and pull towards you (no pain the next day either).
I wish the ones up the back of my thigh were as easy to deal with. They are worse than labour pains! I also have one up the inside of my leg which pulls my foot into a strange position.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:36 PM

Like all high-mileasge models in here, I get these periodically. I can almost predict when I'll get them. If I skip my morning walk for four or five days (no matter how valid the reason) my legs will start cramping up at night. All it takes is taking a walk again, even just for one day, to stop the cramps.

Old age should be so easy.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:38 PM

Woolly bedsocks can help.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:39 PM

Just a side note on the calcium supplement...this needs to be taken with or have Vitamin D added to it to allow the body to absorb the calcium...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:45 PM

when my wife was pregnant and had leg cramps she could deal with it (if she was fast enough) by reaching down and pulling on her toes.
It does have to do with some kind of chemical deficiency.

However years ago, I took part in a stress reduction workshop and while Id never had leg cramps at night they seem to be associated with
stress.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:46 PM

Freightdawg - Since I'm a 55 year old male I really doubt that pregnancy is the cause of my problem. However - the next time I see my doctor I'll ask him to run a test. I'll practice safe sex until then - I wouldn't want the cramps to get any worse. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: MaineDog
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:52 PM

There is something called Restless Leg Syndrome, which results in leg pain similar to cramps, but not quite so severe. They even have expensive pills for the condition. Getting up and walking around helps RLS, but if you really have cramps, of course, you can't, right now.
I get cramps if I haven't got enough exercise recently (dancing is good)
I also get RLS. Using a bigger pillow seems to help rls, don't ask me why.
I haven't tried the expensive pills yet.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Helen
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

I'm with JennyO. I went through a stage last year where I had bad leg cramps which made me limp during the day. I had changed to a job where, although I could walk around a bit, I spent most of my time at my computer. This year I started a new job where I am stuck at my computer for the whole shift and force myself to walk around a bit every hour or so just to get my muscles working again, and I have started getting mild cramps again.

I did a search on the 'Net last year and discovered magnesium could help, along with everything else mentioned above. So now if I get cramps (not as bad as last year, though) then I have some Staminade, which is a sports drink - I use the powder because it's cheaper than buying it by the bottle - or some tonic water. My ex-manager told me his mother was on quinine tablets, but I just drink a glass of tonic water if I need the quinine.

Staminade: Supplement facts

"The carbohydrates in Staminade consist of glucose polymers, glucose (dextrose) and small amounts of fructose, in a combination found to be best for rehydration and replenishment of both muscle and liver glycogen stores. Staminade contains no sucrose (table sugar), no preservatives, artificial sweeteners or flavours. In addition Staminade contains added Vitamin C (antioxidant), a scientific blend of electrolytes and minerals (potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, chloride and phosphorus) and a poly-lactate & phosphate buffer system which may help to reduce acid build up in blood and muscle tissue thereby extending performance. Staminade is naturally flavoured with low sweetness and is lower in sodium and higher in potassium than traditional sports drinks."

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: pattyClink
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:37 PM

Magnesium not only helps with this, but is important for your heart, and needs to balance out your other minerals, no point in taking lots of calcium if your body is starved for magnesium.   

Magnesium, and getting some potassium from orange juice or bananas (stronger and more effective than the pills) have helped the big guy, and yes, the bar of soap seems to help too. Must be something in the fumes that has an effect, I have no idea what.

Magnesium and calcium taken at night seem to promote sleep. But do ease into it, 400 mg Mg is good, but you may need to start with 100 for your gut's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:39 PM

Very unpleasant - I've always found that a drink of mildly salty water seems to help. I was told that miners sometimes like to take a little salt in theior beer for that reason, because of all the salt they'd lose working away. Or salty crisps can do the trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:14 PM

Ditto on the magnesium. Can't stress it enough. I had an episode that almost landed me in the ER. My doc immediately put me on magnesium. I take 500 mg per night and have not had any problems for almost a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:23 PM

I understand that the muscle spasms here are a mild version of what you get from a police Taser. Pretty nasty to even think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:24 PM

I get cramp in the evening, after a hard day's work. It is always hot weather, so I've been sweating, and I've just blobbed out after working hard.
If I drink plenty of water DURING THE DAY, I don't get cramp. If I keep moving about in the evening, I don't get it either.

Vibro massage and salty water fixes it eventually.

Oddly enough, I get it in the thighs, but my upper body usually gets the harder workout.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:31 PM

I've done the Mg route, both prescribed and on my own. I've done everything listed this far, and I fence in the bargain. Believe me, if I could have stopped them on my own I would have done so! Now I'm on muscle relaxant. The leg cramps started about 20 years back, the night after the first time I ever went cross-country skiing -- and yes, they HURT!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:34 PM

A reliable source of information is www.mayoclinic.com. Put the symptom in the search box. Night leg cramp is discussed, with the usual treatments. Muscle cramp is much more complex as to its causes; unless it is the usual type due to muscle strain, see a specialist.

I have night leg cramp occasionally. It is common as one gets older.
My doctor, for age symptoms, prescribes calcium-magnesium supplements (with trace zinc). Vitamin D is required, especially for those who get little sun and don't drink milk (think Canada in winter).
She prescribed quinine, to be used only as needed for more severe cramps, since it does have side effects (see post about ear trouble, above, but there are other side effects as well. I see that the Mayo Clinic lists two other possible nostrums.

When I was living in the desert southwest and spending some time in Mexico, and was younger and more active, I took salt tablets or otherwise increased salt intake.
Salt and sliced lime is often served with beer (as well as being part of margaritas). Pizza and other fast foods in Mexico often have too much salt for our taste. Now the doctor recommends low salt intake for me (somewhat elevated bp).
Even here in western Canada, better bars (pubs) serve lime and salt with Mexican beers, it has become trendy to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:11 PM

Yoga

Martial arts

Gym (with lots of stretching)

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:18 PM

I had cramps mostly in the back of my thighs last time I got myself in trouble with drink, wasn't eating properly and wound up in hospital. I think it was put down to my pottassium level being low. One thing though, the cramps continued for some time after the level returned to normal so I wouldn't go using this symptom as a guide to ones pottasium (which IIRC I was told is involved in regulating the heart) levels.

Of course, what ever causes yours need not be the same as what caused mine...

See your doctor. A blood test will tell if something like that is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: freightdawg
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:18 PM

Anytime Wesley...

I deduced by the masculine appearance of your name that pregnancy would be the most unlikely source of your nocturnal torture; but my philosophy is to adhere to Sherlock Holmes' dictum that you start with the most obvious, and having eliminated all the incorrect options, the solution you end up with, no matter how improbable, is the answer.

Ergo, seeing as how everyone else was giving you sound, useable advice, I figured I would provide you with the most improbable, and, therefore, the most likely source of your pain.

Ain't logic wunnerful?

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:29 PM

I had one of those thigh cramps last night. OUCH! And I'm still favouring that leg a bit today. I think the onset of cold weather adds to the problem, possibly.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:34 PM

Lots of Iron City Beer works fir me jus' fine...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:48 PM

I suffer from that restless leg thing... My legs aren't restless but Manitas' are, so I kick him.... usually works for me.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:53 PM

lack of salt is one indicator, but not the only one. I have had it mid summer after a ceilidh & alcohol. I don't think dehydration is the cause for me but on hot days you can desalinate despite drinking water. I certainly sweat a lot dancing. The problem with trying to replace the salt is knowing how much - too much is not good either. Packet of crisps?

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: terrier
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:58 PM

During our waking hours, if our limbs feel uncomfortable we move our bodies until we feel more comfortable.This continual movement helps blood flow and helps to keep muscles relaxed. During sleep hours we move about much less and therefor are more prone to muscular problems.Try to avoid heavy duvets/blankets on the bed which may restrict movement especially around the area of the feet as this can cause unusual and uncomfortable twisting of the upper leg. Also bear in mind lower back problems may be part of the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:04 PM

I get cramps in my calves during the night occassionally too. They are severe enough that I can't move to massage the muscle or pull on my toes to stretch, I just have to pant my way through it and try to relax. During the following day, the cramped/tightened muscle is visable in it's knot and somewhat uncomfortable. I have found that besides the nutritional information given here, flexing my calf muscles when I first get into bed helps. I arch my foot and point my toes and move the foot so it is heel on the bed, toes to the ceiling and then toes pointed towards the bottom of the bed...flex, flex, flex...seems to work.

I hope you find some relief soon...waking up with that kind of pain is something we can all do without!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Bert
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:23 PM

For sale - Wooly bed socks impregnated with salt, Epsom Salts, bananas and hotel soap.

SHould be a big hit.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:26 PM

LOL,Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Nighttime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:35 PM

Packet of crisps should be enough, Mr Red. Or pork scratchings. ("Pork rinds" I believe is what they are called in the States, which somehow seems to sound a bit less appealing.)

A Marmite sandwich would do the job too.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:53 PM

"...less appealing???" Oh, yeah, McG! I really wanna eat something a hog has scratched!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:22 AM

Y' ever realize what those so-called "pork rinds" really are?...














(A college roommate and I somehow got unto calling them "french-fried foreskins")

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:38 AM

I once found a recognisable ear in a packet... haven't eaten pork scratchings since.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: open mike
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:58 AM

*Chicharones or chicharron are fried pig skins, also called cracklings.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:01 AM

I wonder if elderly bats have this problem? They have to sleep while hanging upsidedown by their feet, poor things. Imagine getting a calf or thigh cramp in such a situation...

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:31 AM

Sports drinks, Gatorade, Gookenade, etc. all have a pretty good electrolyte balance. Quinine works but be careful. Bentyl and other phenobarbitals can help, ask you Doc! Are you taking any steriods? Cortisone? or using corisone cream for dermatitis? That and other medications can contribute to the leg cramps. Any new activities? New shoes? Light but frequent exercise to keep the old circulation going is good. I used to have to massage my son's legs most every night when he was having cramps (growing pains) as a child. He wound up 6'4". No wonder he hurt! You might try sleeping with a pillow between your legs (as opposed to other things!!). Hey, then again it might be time for a new materess!! Good luck. It seems like your getting a lot of things to try.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Slag
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:38 AM

Post Script: My own experience was that I had never had a cramp of any kind until I took up surfing at age 14. Day one I was in the water for hours and knee paddling back out through the surf. That night I found out what leg cramps are all about and have dealt with them off and on ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:30 PM

For them as like pork scratchings, that kind of thing is part of the appeal, Liz.

It's a bit like folk music really. The things that attract us to it are the very things that put off the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 06:20 AM

I loooooove pork scratchings but since BSE and the offal ban they have been made mostly from rendered pigskin which is crackling. Now the marketing and public expectation is that crackling and scratchings are one and the same.
<RANT>
Scratchings were what was left from making lard, most of the fat had been drained out - so the fatty layers yielded more lard than any pigskin. Mostly found in the Black Country UK (don't even think Birmingham).
</RANT>

Subject: RE: BS: Nightime leg cramps
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM

I started wearing those socks that provide gradual compression because I also have mild diabetes. Don't remember having cramps in the calves since I started.

Whoa! Spandex! Heavy metal, here I come!!