BS: Creeping gas prices

Subject: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:53 AM

Well folks, I'm sure you have noticed. Gas prices after the election are on the way up again. This morning in Scarborough Maine the price at the Mobil station is $2.47 per gallon. While I don't buy Mobil or Exxon, I'm sure the others will follow.

Now, I realize that we have had a free ride all these years with the cheapest gas in the world outside of the middle east, but it bugs me to know that the oid barons are raking in obscene profits while so many of us are trying to conserve. In the end it will do little good to cut back on consumption...look at the UK; they all drive those things that look like toasters on wheels and still they pay the equivelent of $7.00 per gallon. At least over there, the money goes into something besides lining the pockets of those thieves who have been given a license to steal in this country!

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 09:12 AM

I bought gas for $2.19 a gallon last week. A few days later it was $2.23, and when I left for Canada yesterday, it was $2.29. Then I got to pre-Cornwall NY, and it was $2.62. Tax, I suppose. It goes up and we pay because we have to. And at least for going to work and back, I'd take public transportation, if there WERE public transportation.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 10:36 AM

...Oh for the joy of paying $2.42 a gallon! you Yanks don't know yer born! I just put £20 worth of petrol in my Nissan Micra this morning and it's STILL only 3/4 full!

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 10:57 AM

I still giggle when I hear the prices and I've been in Maine now for two years.

However, it is a fact that, since the elections, the price of gas here has risen a fair bit - coincidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 11:55 AM

It always irritates me just a bit when I hear the ubiquitous comparison between US gas prices and the UK petrol prices. It ain't fair. Come on, it's like comparing the price of a loaf of bread and the price of a raffle ticket. Other than both going into a gas tank they have precious little to do with each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:03 PM

It's where that money GOES that bugs me!

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM

It occurs to me to wonder what Americans call what we call "gas". The gaseous stuff used for cooking - or that you can in fact use to drive certain cars.
..................
"Other than both going into a gas tank they have precious little to do with each other."   How so? In each case they are used to allow motor cars to move around.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:19 PM

I agree with you about the word 'gas', Kevin. I have no idea why we call it that, other than it's short for 'gasoline'. In addition to 'petrol', do you in the UK say, gasoline?

"Precious little to do with each other"? Because most of the price of a gallon in the US goes to the oil companies, while most of the price of a gallon in the UK goes to fund social services.

When one strips the taxes from both gallons, the price is almost identical.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:31 PM

I'm reasonably certain the price is somewhat lower here because 1)We in the USA still have some 'local' sources and refining capacity and 2)It would be a serious burden on trucking companies due to the VERY long distances involved in commerce in the USA.. (and to people like ranchers and others in Western states)- who may need to drive many thousands of miles per year just to survive.

I don't know how life will change if supply diminishes a lot and prices rise a lot, but changes will be major. The luxury of quick airline travel to visit Grandma 'might' be severely curtailed.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:45 PM

"Gasoline" - we know that means the same as "petrol", and that it's "gas" for short, but we don't use the word much.

Now as well as petrol and diesel cars there are cars run on what's called liquefied gas - so I was wondering what Americans would call that to distinguish it from the ones using gasoline.

And when you are cooking the turkey in the oven, do you call the stuff you are heating it with "gas" as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:54 PM

I don't know what the term 'liquified gas' in the US will shake down to eventually, but I'll bet there are some here that already use the term.

But yes, we say 'gas stoves'.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 12:58 PM

yep...we say we use a "gas stove" ...but when speaking of fuel, 'gas' for your car is just understood in context to be short for gasoline. So far, 'liquified gas' is uncommon enough that one just uses the whole term..

(No particular justification for it all...just as 'torch' in used in the UK to mean either a battery powered gadget OR a flame on a stick.)

I'd be hard put to choose one term over another...'petrol' makes a certain amount of sense, but 'petroleum' here means the raw product, which is commonly abbreviated to 'oil'...and I'd suspect that 'gas' is used partly because it's shorter..

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 01:28 PM

It's not a matter of one way of saying things being better or worse - I just find it interesting finding out about the differences and the similarities.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: pdq
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 01:36 PM

We in the US use two common petropleum products that are in a gaseous state: Propane and Natural Gas. The latter is run through gas pipelines and usually deilvered in it's natural state.

When Natural Gas is pressurized (about 150 psi) it becomes liquid and is known as is known as liquefied natural gas (LNG). It is mostly methane and mostly comes from wells, usually associated with oil fields. Once it was burned-off intentionally as it was considered a nuesence. Natural gas is piped directly to industrial sites and is the most common fuel for US electricity-generating plants. There is a good supply network around the US for personal and commercial auto use. I once owned an LNG-powerd pickup truck. Gas mileage was about 65% of standard gasoline.

Propane or liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) is 90% propane and tends to come from the gasoline refining process. There are rather strict standards as to the composition of LPG as compared to LNG. I use this for cooking and it is quite hot compared to natural gas. Much of rural America has no local natural gas (again, in a gaseous form) and propane (LPG) is delivered to your home in a specially-built truck.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 01:45 PM

You are very lucky in the Sates.

I have just read an article that says that people who work in the UK have to work until June to pay all the taxes that are official in the UK and the whol;e year to pay for all the taxes imposed.

If you are not working as I don't you are in the fertiliser.

What will the UN resolution for Iran do for Oil prices - will it affetct us?

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 01:53 PM

Yes, LP, or liquefied petroleum. More and more vehicles are being converted to run on it. Quite common for homes in the country away from the city gas (natural gas) lines to have an LP tank in the yard. Everything 'gas' in the house runs on it. Stove, heat, etc. The output jets on an LP cook stove are smaller, and IMO, it doesn't put out the BTUs that the same amount of natural gas does. I can't stay warm in a house heated with LP. Which, just to confuse things more, is often called propane. Same stuff camp stoves and outdoor grills over here run on.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 02:08 PM

Ebbie it is interesting in this respect, many of the living expenses in the US are lower than the UK, particularly food and petrol, not to mention booze, yet so many other things are comparable. Basically you have a cheaper cost of living yet we pay more for essentials, which is all out of whack. That's why we tend to moan about it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: John J
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 02:17 PM

UK price for petrol is currently around UK£0.90 per litre = U$4.20 per imperial gallon.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: John J
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 02:20 PM

Sorry, got that completely wrong:

UK£0.90 / litre = U$7.90 per Imperial gallon.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: pdq
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 02:39 PM

Here are some prices.

[note: this is gasoline (=petrol) for the car]

prices are in US Dollars and are for US Gallons


Global gas prices:        

Caracas               Apr-06        $0.12
Kuwait                 Apr-06        $0.78
Riyadh                 Apr-06        $0.91
Buenos A             May-06        $2.21
Mexico City         May-06        $2.25
Beijing                  May-06        $2.40
Johannes               May-06        $3.70
Sydney                 May-06        $3.76
Mumbai                 May-06        $4.13
Brasilia                  Apr-06        $4.60
Tokyo                  May-06        $4.93
Frankfurt               May-06        $6.10
Rome                    May-06        $6.15
Brussels                  May-06        $6.33
London                  May-06        $6.36
Hong Kong            May-06        $6.54
Oslo                       May-06        $6.99

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: pdq
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 03:18 PM

The last time I bought gas (=petrol, US $, US Gallons) it cost $2.32.

Here is a rough breakdown of the price:

1) crude oil cost / one gallon / $60 per barrel                                        $1.15

2) profit for "Big Oil" company                                                          .19

3) profit for "gas station" (=retail outlet)(usually 10-15¢)                .15

4) taxes, mostly Federal (US government)                                    .55

5) all expenses incurred by "Big Oil" including refining             .28
      costs, transportation, etc.                                                    ________

                                                                                                    $2.32

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Big Phil
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 03:37 PM

We here in the UK still have an alleged thief around which no one can catch. He is able to steal from us by various methods, VAT, IMPORT DUTY, INCOME TAX, PREMIUM TAX we have many hundreds of these taxes, that is why our petrol is so much higher than practically any where on earth.
The alleged thief is well known, we do know his name. GORDON BROWN.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 04:13 PM

So it is the government taxes that take out the most disproportionate chunk of your gas bill. That is true in Canada as well, although I think it's an even bigger chunk here than in the USA.

I note that here also the gas price has been creeping up steadily since the election was over. From $0.789 a liter on election day...to its present level of $0.949 in this locality (as of yesterday, when I bought some).

It's amusing that Canadian gas prices should be manipulated as a byproduct of an American election, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Big Phil
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 04:46 PM

Greedy Gordon Brown is snatching nearly a quarter of the average wage packet in income tax and national insurance.

But when a crippling barrage of more than 100 stealth taxes is added, workers are paying almost half their earnings to the Chancellor. Earlier this month he increased fuel duty and airport charges in his Pre-Budget Report.

This year it was calculated that Britons must work until June 3 before they earn money for themselves. Before that date every penny goes in tax.

Now shock figures from the Office of National Statistics reveal that the situation has got even worse.

They disclose that income tax and national insurance cost 23.6p for every pound earned. That is the highest level since records were first kept 20 years ago.

That has increased from around 18p when Labour came to power in 1997.
In total, the nation's tax bill has risen by £219billion since Labour came to power the equivalent of £9,000 for each household.

And it comes on top of the stealth taxes, including the £5billion annual raid on pension funds, rising fuel levies on petrol and diesel and the ever growing grab from inheritance grab fuelled by the house-price boom.

It is this that is taking the GREAT out of Great Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 05:52 PM

Of course those sums don't include anything at all for the damage done to the world we all live in, including most people around the world who don't have cars, but still have to puit up with the consequences.

The true cost of petrol, including that, would be far higher even than the price we pay in Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 06:09 PM

What is the situation for medical care in the UK? Do part of those high taxes get you some sort of Universal Health Care?

In the USA it doesn't, and my family pays around $300 (it just went UP) per month for health insurance ...plus charges for doctor visits and prescriptions.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 06:44 PM

In Canada it gets you universal health care for pretty much everything except dental work. Definitely worthwhile. Dental should be included, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:22 PM

In the UK, it most certainly does.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:45 PM

pdq, source please. 30 Billion dollars per quarter is obscene anyway you cut it.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Dec 06 - 08:52 PM

Yes, there is universal health care in the UK but the standard of healthcare has fallen IMHO.

I personally know one guy who had to wait six months for an operation to deal with cancer of the prostate and was finally looked after in a private hospital at the expense of the National Health. I waited close on to 18 months for a bunion, which was virtualy crippling me, to be dealt with. I know other UK catters have had the same problem. In certain areas it is impossible to get onto a dentist's National Health list.

I would guess that, in common with the States, too much of our tax money is going to fund the war in Iraq, not being used for the benefit of the British people.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 12:36 AM

Interestingly, this year in Oz, there seems to have been less occurrence of traffic jams with people travelling in the normal 'GAFIA period' before XMAS - wonder whether the increased petrol prices, and house mortgage interest rates have stretched people so far that more are not GAFIAing this year...

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:06 AM

Well, you won't hear too much complaining about universal health care in Canada. Any political party that tries to dismantle it is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: John J
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 05:14 AM

The UK National Health Service is, sadly, rather badly managed = very inefficient. The governemnt's answer is to introduce more management.

Unless you are an emergency case you go on what is often a long waiting list.

Dentistry on the NHS has virtually disappeared, yet dentists, who now call themselves doctors over here, are amongst the highest paid health workers in the country.

Most UK citizens are now having to pay for private health care.

Health care from the cradle to the grave is now only a memory.

Discuss.

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 12:48 PM

...only a memory. That's more than we have.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:03 PM

Sounds like the corporate bosses have succeeded in eviscerating the UK health system. The basic approach is to cunningly withdraw funding and increase inefficiency until people get desperate enough to hire expensive privatized medical care. Then you say "Oh, the national health system isn't working anymore. Let's do away with it."

Clever. That has been happening a bit in Canada too, although the national health care system is still pretty strong here.

In the past 2 years my father was dying of liver disease. He eventually passed away in May of this year. The extensive hospital treatment he received during his illness would have completely bankrupted this family, were we living in the USA. As it was, it cost us virtually nothing...so I say thank God for the Canadian socialized health system!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 02:12 PM

Nothing? Don't you pay some of the highest taxes in the world?

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 02:40 PM

I've never met a dentist who called himself or herself a doctor, even when they've got a doctorate. It would confuse people.

And my experience is that waiting lists are shorter than they used to be.

Too much paperwork and reorganising, that's true, but that's a universal disease these days, in every line of work.

But don't believe anyone who says the NHS demonstrates that "socialised medicine" doesn't work. The problems we have are tied up with efforts to make it more like the private system rather than the other way round.

Typically people will use private health provision to speed up on getting a test done - but rely on the NHS to do the actual medical work. Not just to save money, either, the level of treatment is more reliable.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 02:42 PM

A $20,000 medical bill spread amongst 10 million people costs each one 2 cents. You can provide medical care for a lot of people that way without bankruptcy.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 03:01 PM

Well, thanks for the answers....it seems like no one is having it 'easy' unless they are independently wealthy. The gap between the haves & have nots grows, hmmm?

One virtue of higher taxes and National Health Care is that sudden expenses are covered...but if the care is not well managed, it can be almost worse. With the advances in modern medicine, lots CAN be done, but some of the new treatments are very expensive, no matter how the payments are managed. (My wife takes anti-rejection pills that we could never afford if we hadn't been scrimping to pay private health insurance)...now we 'just' squeak by.

And the billions that could help fund a solution to this are being squandered in the dust of Iraq, doing nothing except making munitions makers happy....and the tensions resulting are driving up those creeping gas prices ever higher....

.................phooh!

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 03:03 PM

Exactly. Kendall, I don't mind paying taxes. Taxes come on a regular schedule, in manageable amounts, and people can handle that if they are capable of managing their money half-reasonably and planning ahead. It doesn't knock them flat on their ass the way a $150,000 medical bill does in the middle of a family crisis.

In any case, I am not aware that Canadian taxes are extraordinarily high for a western democracy. I think they're fairly typical.

USA taxes may be a bit lower....but I'd be surprised if they are much lower, because you have the world's biggest annual military expenditures to fund, don't forget. ;-) Bigger than all the other nations in the world combined, in fact.

Just like the Roman Empire in its glory days.

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 04:32 PM

Here in the US the price should steadly increase untill it reaches where it was before the elections & then some. Strange how those predictions became fact.

Does anyone think that the government is at all concerned with the rate of gas consumption or the price? Cause you can moan & whine all you want, it'll just fall on deaf ears.

I went to buy a new car & started looking for what was best on gas & for what I'd like to have. Not much to chose from. We ended up getting a Prius (Toyota). We wanted something a little bit larger but no chance. It gets 45 on the highway & maybe 60 mpg in the city (not sure yet on the city). What troubled me was only 1 car got better than 50 mpg (Honda), only 1 got better than 40 & only a few better than 30. The incentives are still way to low on buying a hybrid or for gas use reduction in general except for putting a high price on it and the present product line is an insult to enviormentally concernded consumer. The present formular for tax credits (for Hybrids) reduce the more cars a manufacture sells & there (at least at present) seems to be no credit for next year, no credit at all for buying one used. Cal seems to be the only state that I've heard of where the state also offers a credit & a few states allow hybrids to travel in POV lanes with only one person & Cal also gives a break on some of the tolls. So in general the government instead of creating a market that's enviormentally friendly is going in the opposite direction. But doesn't that figure. This bedtime relationship between auto manufacturers, oil companies & government is costing he rest of us big time.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Creeping gas prices
From: kendall
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 06:09 PM

Don't get me wrong, Little Hawk, I wish we had national health care here too.It seems like a much better way to spend billions of dollars than killing people who are no threat to us.
I just wish the people had spoken in 2004.