BS: Shambles has been asked to leave

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:43 PM

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST,the doc
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:42 PM

Slowly walk away from your computer and deal with your demons elsewhere. You are obsessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for proving my point Guest 0550pm.

My folk spirit is alive and well. I also do not hide from discussions, nor am I insulting individuals like you. The ability to communicate and discuss is far different from "piling on" and being rude. I have not been uncivil to Shambles or anyone. I have tried to maintain the same decorum that Shambles and Max have shown. I am not hiding now, nor am I using the Guest signin to insult others. If you feel that simply having a discussion is wrong, then why don't you have my message deleted?

Again, you proved the point as to why having anonymous guest sign-in is wrong. You are the guilty party. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: vectis
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:32 PM

I find this a very sad thread. A few years ago I PMed Shambles for some information and he was helpfulness itself.
I'll be sorry to see you go but it is Max's baby and he does have the last word on who goes and who stays.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Slag
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:31 PM

Endless, bifurcating, hairsplitting carpation of a circular nature. End it now before it swamps us all! Man the pumps and ready the plank. Batten down the hatches and weather the storm. All passengers and timid souls below deck and all able-bodied seamen, do your duty!

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 07:29 PM

There is no point in drawing out this bloodletting anymore. Shambles, you can't claim not to know. You have conducted a public campaign against Mudcat for some years and yet have the nerve to play victim.

You have all your complained incessantly about process so Max has let you know (publicly) that time is up.

Just as you have lodged interminable whinges and gripes against Mudcat, so others are responding with gripes against you. Which is the martyr? why do you have the right to bitch on but no-one else?

Can someone make a decision and put us all out of our misery?

fed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:41 PM

No. It's because he took a poop outside his pen.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:39 PM

"No one has ever been forced to read my posts..."

You're right about that Shambles. In fact, you have been here longer than I but my ignorance of this situation can only be attributed to the fact that I hardly ever read the threads where you are arguing about unfair moderation.

Its just boring.

Is that it? Shambles has been asked to leave because he's boring?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:35 PM

"Ron, you make a very good point, even if it's not quite what you intended. You got into the argument with Shambles rather late, didn't you? Why did you feel like you 1) needed to do that, and 2) wouldn't do any harm by doing it?"

Jeri, you are right. Your comments actually do fit in with what I was trying to say. We are all humans. Yes, I got into the "discussion" with Shambles rather late - after I kept seeing references in threads I found to be more important. After a lot of searching and thinking, I realized that Shambles made some very good points. He does appear to have been singled out, and there does appear to have been good reason to do that.

Why did I enter in? Because I could. There were no rules stopping me.   Seeing moderators and other respected Mudcatters having at it made me feel that my comments were not out of place. It wasn't a private battle. The problems reflected what I saw at the core of what made Mudcat a good website.

Did I feel that I would be doing harm? Not at first. I soon realized that I was becoming part of the pack mentality that was ruining this website. There were no groundrules that prevented me from doing so, especially when I saw respected Mudcatters and moderators doing the same.

"The bottom line is there will always be people who will jump at a stupid argument without regard for how it affects others. "
And there will always be people who sit back and do nothing when there is a problem.   I realize that some of my comments were out of line and out of place, but as 3:15pm guest pointed out - none of us are angels and faultless. The point is - how many people recognize that and try to change? How many people recognize that and gather strength in their convicition?   Nothing is black and white. This is not a yes or no discussion, no matter how simple some of us try to make it. We are dealing with human nature her.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: John O'L
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 05:22 PM

All this stuff about identities has me seriously freaked out. In every GUEST post I'm seeing idiosyncrasies I recognise, or think I recognise, in specific members.

Maybe I'd just better close this thread and go back to the one about the haemorrhaging...so much blood...so many suicide notes...where will it all end?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

Apart from having a target publicly pinned on me by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - could someone tell me what rules I am supposed to have broken and for which I should be further punished?

For unlike many of my fellow posters who would feel themselves qualified to publicly judge my worth in this thread and see Max's request for me to leave as some reason for rejoicing:

I have tried to post my views on our forum - openly using my own name.

I have not tried 'fun' ways or any other ways of preventing others from posting their views or ever felt encouraged that my membership gave me any right to do this.

I have never posted only to abuse or call another poster names, used foul language, made scatological references or ever responded in kind to the many such post I been seen to be subjected to. A practice and example set which has been seen to be openly indulged in and encouraged by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team and some of the anonymous members of his team.

No one has ever been forced to read my posts and in fact in the many years I have been a member and keen supporter of our forum - I have done nothing but try to post my honest views and encourage others to do this - which I was under the impression was the object of our forum.

Perhaps the above would not be the case for some of those who appear to feel themselves qualified to judge me as being guilty of some form of rule-breaking.

If it were against the rules to be judged an irritation or a pain in the arse - perhaps many more posters than me should be being asked to leave.

When some of these go first - I may follow their example.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 04:36 PM

Possibly pedantic correction: Whatever the cause, people cannot turn themselves into martyrs.

That isn't actually true. Sadly, it happens every day in places like Iraq and the Holy Land. Then there were the Hunger Strikers in Northern Itrekand. And many many examples over the ages.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: nutty
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM

If we class ourselves as adult, we all have to take responsibility for our actions and accept any consequences that might arise from them.

Clearly Shambles still has a lot of growing up to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 03:47 PM

Just for the record, Joe and I are good friends which would put me in the inner circle, if such a circle existed. However, if I say something which he doesn't approve of, he lets me know in no uncertain terms.
So much for favoritism.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 03:15 PM

"They will say they just can't let untruths stand without challenge."

Yes, they are following the example of forum moderators when they do this.

The red messages moderators attach to some posters messages demonstrates the moderators inability to let a poster's statement go unchallenged.

Mick has used that very justification to get all of the moderators stalk me here in the forum. He always says "he will not let stand..." when he gives his justification for going after me. His, yours, katlaughing, Joe & Max's paranoia about me is driven by you and Mick, Jeri. You are being a hypocrite here.

You are the mods, and you yourselves play the stalking and harrassment game?

Now, I've never been intimidated by any of you, and your bullying has never had an effect on me. But it certainly has had an effect on others you have done it.

Some of us know you aren't the saints you keep making yourselves out to be. Whether the rest of the forum ever figures it out, I don't care either.

I also have no problem with Max developing the ability to force me out, Shambles, Martin Gibson, or anyone else for that matter. Anyone running a web forum that hasn't got that technical nowadays is choosing to make their life miserable.

Sure, there are plenty of lunatics online that find their way here and wreak havoc in one way or another. And I include myself in that category. But that doesn't mean you are angels and fautless here, like you keep trying to make yourselves out to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:52 PM

Ron, you make a very good point, even if it's not quite what you intended. You got into the argument with Shambles rather late, didn't you? Why did you feel like you 1) needed to do that, and 2) wouldn't do any harm by doing it?

Now, try to imagine all the other serial opponents Shambles has had over the years considering the 'good of the forum' before they indulged themsleves and tell me if you think that's realistic.

I agree that we'd all be better off with some consideration for other people and the self-control necessary to do that. Tell the people who are continually going at it with Roger that they should think about others and stop it.

They will say they just can't let untruths stand without challenge. They will say they have a right to argue with him, no matter how obnoxious or dim some of us think they are.   I've watched this whole sorry mess unfold, and the truth is that if there were a lifeboat with some of these people in it and I were drowning, I'd have to think for quite a while before agreeing to get into it. Some of you just seem cruel. I also fully realize I've probably annoyed others by not shutting up when they though I should have.

The bottom line is there will always be people who will jump at a stupid argument without regard for how it affects others. If the destructive stuff can be stopped - at least temporarily - by removing one or a few instigators instead of current and future selfish joiners-in, it's going to be the few who suffer, not the many.

Max has said, "we do not have the ability currently to force him out or from returning, so I stress that I have asked him to leave". If Shambles continues to disrespect Max and ignore the request, he's challenging Max to develop the ability to force him out.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST,Pathologist
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:45 PM

Cluin that sounds like perfect advice for the normal personage but will this person heed your words? I think not. He heeds no ones words. He is a lore unto himself. He is a haemmorhoid in the butt of mudcat, a real pain in the .... but he has to be so somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:16 PM

Roger, Max, as benevolent dictator (and he IS greatly benevolent) has asked that you leave. You appear to have made the choice to not do so. Banning you would seem to be the next step. Maybe that's what you want.

May I respectfully suggest to you a middle ground?

Take a break from your self-imposed crusade and post only constructively on the music-related threads for a while. See if you can't recall why you came to this forum in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:14 PM

Guest 07 Jan 07 - 01:39 PM,

While it may be true that most forums don't tolerate criticism from the hoi polloi, it is also just as true that many forums have clear, concise, simple guidelines to follow. There is also a process to follow for registering complaints, etc.

Looked lately at the Mudcat FAQ?

And secondly, it isn't enough for forum moderators to get along with the people they like and agree with, as a moderator, it is of paramount importance to find a way of aligning themselves with those they don't appreciate, understand, or agree with on any given thing.

To do the job of moderation well requires a very highly developed sense of impartiality, something the personalities who are moderators here largely don't possess. They have many good qualities, mind you, but a highly developed sense of impartiality isn't among them.

And Ron, the log-in procedure isn't what determines whether the forum has the feel of a country club or a gated community. The tone is set by the site owner, site administor(s) and moderators.

There are plenty of examples of excellent online fora that are member only AND democratic AND dynamic, interesting, provocative, etc.

It just isn't an either/or sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:08 PM

If someone entered my house and complained about how I live, it wouldn't take me a few years to react, and I wouldn't give a rodent's rump if he thought I was not justified either.It's MY house, he would have NO rights there at all, and I would be glad to "help him out".

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:07 PM

Welease Woger!

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:07 PM

Scene 23
[trumpets]
CROWD: [cheering]

PILATE: People of Jewusalem!

CROWD: [chuckling]

PILATE: Wome is your fwiend.

CROWD: [laughing]

PILATE: To pwove our fwiendship, it is customawy at this time to welease a wongdoer fwom our pwisons.

CROWD: [laughing]

GUARD #3: [chuckling]

PILATE: Whom would you have me welease?

BOB HOSKINS: Welease Woger!

CROWD: Yes! Welease Woger! Welease Woger! [laughing]

PILATE: Vewy well. I shall welease Woger!

CROWD: [cheering]

CENTURION: Sir, uh, we don't have a 'Woger', sir.

PILATE: What?

CENTURION: Uh, we don't have anyone of that name, sir.

PILATE: Ah. We have no 'Woger'!

CROWD: Ohhhhh!

BOB: Well, what about Wodewick, then?

CROWD: Yes! Welease Wodewick! Welease Wodewick!

PILATE: Centuwion, why do they titter so?

CENTURION: Just some, uh, Jewish joke, sir.

PILATE: Are they... wagging me?

CENTURION: Oh, no, sir!

GUARD #3: [chuckling]

PILATE: Vewy well. I shall welease... Wodewick!

CROWD: [laughing]

CENTURION: Sir, we don't have a 'Roderick' either.

PILATE: No 'Woger'? No 'Wodewick'?

CENTURION: Sorry, sir.

PILATE: Who is this 'Wod'--

GUARD #1: [chuckle]

PILATE: Who is the 'Wodewick' to whom you wefer?

BOB: He's a wobber!

CROWD: [laughing]

MAN: And a wapist!

CROWD: [laughing]

WOMAN: And a pickpocket!

CROWD: Yeah! Ahh, no! No! Shh! Shh!...

PILATE: He sounds a notowious cwiminal.

CENTURION: We haven't got him, sir. Mm hm.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 02:03 PM

" Whatever the cause, people cannot turn themselves into martyrs."

Lets not debate semantics. I think you know why I used the word "martyr". You come across as if you are being made an example of and suffering unjustly. All you have done is prove what many of us have said all along - this is NOT a public forum and you are not having your freedoms taken away.

Your posts have been abusive. No you do not "judge anothers worth" by using insults, but your barrage of postings have done you in. You were warned, but you continued. Now you are the unwanted guest at a party. Someone with dignity probably would leave, but your stance has shown just what your plans have been all along. A private forum like Mudcat does not tolerate your kind of behavior.   Your points, and they were good ones, became lost in your methods.   As I've said to you before, you are your own worst enemy. You cannot use Max, the clones, or anyone else as a scapegoat. You asked for Max to make a statment, he did. Now you need to come to terms with the reality. The host has shown how the party is to be conducted.   Do the right thing Shambles, stop. Leave with some dignity.

While I don't agree with everything that has gone on here, I do applaud Max's attempt to improve and I respect his right to set the rules. Mistakes of the past are unavoidable and we can only learn from them. I hope he can do the right thing going forward. I want to enjoy Mudcat the way I did 7 years ago. ALL of the threads have been victimized by the recent troubles. I hope it can improve.

Do we want a "country club"?   For a long time I thought that was the last thing we wanted.   I think the term brings up images that really are not based in fact. Having Mudcat as a private members only forum would not ruin anything.   Besides, if it became a problem, it can always be changed back. Nothing is forever. Even Shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:57 PM

He constantly insulted the owner and moderators of this site which is not part of acceptable internet etiquette.

No - he does not.

If this thread is to be my epitaph - can you at least provide some evidence for your allegations of my terrible posting crimes?

I am almost agreeing myself that hanging is far too good for a chap who posts insults at the site's owner and its moderators and sends them 796 PMs of complaints.

Stone him!

Put him in the comfy chair!

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:49 PM

He has turned himself into a martyr for a cause that was never there to begin with.

Whatever the cause, people cannot turn themselves into martyrs.

They become known as martyrs by the things that others do to to them.

And they are usually dead - as a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM

The metaphor was lost on you, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:39 PM

Ron,

How exactly is Shambles a martyr? He constantly insulted the owner and moderators of this site which is not part of acceptable internet etiquette. On any other site he would have either been banned after his third attack or had all of his insulting posts eliminated. It is only on Mudcat that someone like Shambles would be allowed to go on unchecked for such a long time. Hell, he was even given his own thread so he could attack, attack, attack. Max and the clones surely did everything they could to not banish him. In effect, Shambles committed internet suicide by attacking once too many times. 700 plus complaints does not make a martyr.

On top of all of that, he is till posting even though he has been banned. Not to harsh treatment by any standards. If Mudcat can't stop him from posting then the least that could be done is to edit out his posts when they are noticed.

He is certainly not any type of martyr.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:38 PM

I thought that was part of his job description Guest 01:34?
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM

Nice to see you taking the tenets of your faith to heart, Mooh.

Onward Christian soldiers, and all that?

You do remember Jesus was the scapegoat?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM

Nothing has really changed from Max's much quoted last statement to our forum.

He suggested that I should leave. The choice was then mine and it still is.

As I judge that I have done nothing to warrant this publicly engineered demand for my absence (where others certainly have) - as a member of the public to whom the invitation to post is still open and which I am a firm supporter of - I see no reason for this member of the public not to continue posting as I have done for many years.

If Max wishes to ban this one member of the public and really thinks this will fix something and considers this to be a strong positive move on his part - rather than a weak negitive one - he is of course welcome to be seen to ban me from his site.

I would hope that as my complaint appears to be the cause of this request/suggestion to be repeated - that the validity or otherwise of this complaint will be examined and discussed - rather than simply ignored. But subsequent actions would suggest that the content of that complaint to be proved.

The best solution for all concerned would appear to be a move to members only posting and the end to the open invitation for the public's contributions.

Then those noisy few who are already encouraged to treat our forum as their exclusive private club can pull-up the drawbridge behind them and be welcome to judge each other's worth to their heart's content.

Those of us who have always supported our forum's open invitation as its great strength - will then be able to decide whether they wish to continue posting on this basis.

And those who do decide to continue - will not have to worry about seeing any contributions from this poster.

Perhaps Max could finally inform our forum if a change to members only posting is going to happen?

As it was the public call for its introduction, as a cure to all ills - made in a 'for the record' statement - was the cause of this latest escalation of this division and taking of sides - that some seem to see as necessary part of contributing to our forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Mooh
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:30 PM

Been away from the Mudact (how's that for a cool typo?) for a couple of hours to go to church where I prayed for forgiveness and peace and tolerance and all those cool things. Since I didn't even think of this thread's situation in prayer, I guess my conscience is clear when I say you folks shouldn't post so much when I'm not around to read it, I mean, cut me some slack. Oh yeah, and Shambles, take a hint will ya, most of us are done "suffering gladly".

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:21 PM

Be careful lest you become the new Shambles, Tom. This anti anon GUEST thing has been going on a long time. Meanwhile there has been just as much nastiness between logged-in members around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:21 PM

Ron, your belief that the moderators have the ability to know with certainty who is posting when isn't accurate.

They *claim* to have the power technically to do so, but regularly demonstrate they don't.

How do I know this?

They often claim I am another poster, or that another poster is me.

Technically, this forum is primitive.

Also, with the advent of new brower capabilities that easily allows people to websurf without leaving tracks/picking up cookies (which is what any sane, rational web user should be doing nowadays), Max doesn't have the ability to block everyone's IP.

Doesn't anyone wonder why Max can block some posters, but not others?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM

as lest you know who is doing it when they give a name, it's these guest who remain annon I can't bide.

broken record time I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:07 PM

I have such mixed feelings right now, as I am sure many of us do. Over the past few months I found myself drifting into this controversy. On one hand, it is a personal issue between Shambles and this site - but on the other hand it does involve all of us.

While it is easy to say that no one has to read any thread, it becomes difficult when disagreements start poping up in a variety of threads and when civility is thrown out the window.

Shambles made some very good points, and I do think that at time the moderators should have used restraint and not argued so much with Shambles in public view. One person shouting on a street corner does not interupt traffic until a mob forms around the individual. I think all of us like to feel that equal treatment makes for a welcoming forum and when the balance appears to shift - even if there are legitimate reasons, the place turns to chaos.

Some of the comments that have been made to Shambles (and others) would probably not be said if people we talking face to face. If some of those comments were said, I guarantee you that there would be physicial confrontation.

Still, this is Max's site and I highly respect his wishes and the wishes of his chosen moderators. It is nearly impossible to make this site fit everyones wishes. We have to respect his rules because this is NOT a public forum in the terms that some people expect it to be. A private website is not a public soapbox - there are rules and expected behavior. Shambles overstepped his bounds and he refused to see it. He has turned himself into a martyr for a cause that was never there to begin with.

While earlier I said the moderators should have used more self-control, I have no arguements with their behavior.   In many respects, this website is an ongoing experiment in social behavior. We are human beings and we will make mistakes. We will also take our direction and run in ways that may not make everyone happen. Our biggest crime is that we are human.

If I had a vote, which I realize I don't, I would ban ALL guest postings. The idea that it encourages more people to post has no validity.   The moderators can trace any posting (as has been proven in the last few weeks) so no one remains anonymous. The ability to post as a guest allows for people to say things under a hood.   I freely admit that I have done so on occasion. It is very easy to get angry and use the guest login as a way to say things that would normally not be said. While some may see that as a benefit, I feel that it flys in the face of Max's statements that we will all behave as "adults". What is the definition of adult? Where is it written that adults behave with any sort of civility? Pick up a newspaper!

Sure, there are some that will still post remarks that will tick off others. Look at Shambles, Clinton, Martin, etc. Still, I would bet good money that we would see a decline in arguements - especially if moderators were free to delete such comments.

Mudcat can be turned back into a pleasureable place to spend time and make friends - at the cost of some "freedom".   I don't think that is a problem as the site is not a public soapbox. I could not walk into your home at anytime of the day or night and spout whatever is on my mind without following the rules and wishes of the host. Perhaps when everyone respects that and stop acting like martyrs that the fun will return to Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:03 PM

I think that we should ask all people the post under the word 'GUEST' to give either their real names or nicknames, because I'm fed up with these 'people' because they insult or berate you, but don't have guts to own up to it.

Tom Hamilton
Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 01:00 PM

Sad that it has come to this. Agree with Peace and Seamus. Those of you who say you will now ignore all posts by Shambles now that Max has declared him a ghost, why didn't you try that tack before?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM

So - how many GUESTS does it take to make a shambles? of a thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM

I am glad for Max's action (asking Roger to leave), yet feel no joy, for the very reasons that McGrath stated in his 06 Jan 07 - 01:40 PM post. Richard Bridge & freda underhill were right too, in their posts around 06 Jan 07 - 09:57 PM. Roger, take a sabbatical and return refreshed and wiser. The rest of us, let's leave Roger be.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM

Yes, "GUEST" and as with any lynch mob there's always the trouble makers circling the outside urging people on in one direction or another while carefully maintaining their own anonymity.

And if you're the same "GUEST" as 7.Jan 11:48, the comment:
Now we are up to 100 posts berating shambles.
You should note that not all 100 posts have breated Shambles, some have supported him, some are even from him (although, at times, he can be his own worst enemy)

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:29 PM

Yup. And Max is the ringleader of it. Not only is it his site, it's his rope.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:23 PM

Cool!
A lynch mob!

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

You abuse the authority of your position by claiming to have secret knowledge about forum posters, whether they are members or anon guests.

I've never had a site volunteer tip me off in the way you are suggesting, Guest. Some people make their motives clear, if one is paying attention. I'm not a clone, but I know enough to know who to steer clear of, strictly from my own experiences and observations.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

"I have made it clear that I have left before and I returned after a while when I relised this was a mistake - if Max does not wish me to post - he will have to ban me. And to think up some grounds of justification for doing so (if only to try and convince himself)."

Shambles, your arrogance is absolutely disgusting. The owner of this site has asked you to leave. It is his site and he does not have to justify anything. You, however, have to justify why you keep posting after being told to go away. On any other site that on the internet there would be a total block on your posting. I have no idea why Max is not doing that to you similar to the way that he did it to MG and CH.

After so many years of challenging and insulting the ownership and management of this wonderful site you have finally been told that you have lost the battle. Now it is time for you to face your defeat and go somewhere else. Perhaps you can start your own site and never edit anything inluding spam. See how long you can do that before you become frustrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:51 AM

I think we should all leave the shambles alone now, I just feel sorry for him now.

Subject: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Max - PM
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 10:50 AM

I received by 796th complaint from Shambles last night.

This morning, in very clear words, I have asked him to leave the mudcat.

I made a promise that I would deal with him, and I am keeping that promise.

Keep in mind, that we do not have the ability currently to force him out or from returning, so I stress that I have asked him to leave. You can take that any way you like, and we'll just have to wait and see what happens now.

That is all.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:48 AM

Don't mistake my decision to do this as permission to publicly berate a fellow human being. said Max.

Now we are up to 100 posts berating shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:34 AM

why doesn't shambles just leave and let the rest of us get on with life

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:31 AM

100!

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:27 AM

katlaughing, a forum moderator, said in the Posting with Civility thread:

"Then there are the wolves in sheeps' clothing who appear to be wonderful, popular members, but who some know to be vicious and ugly and not to be trusted. One would never know it by their postings."

"I do think we should ban anon. guest like Janet who come here only to attack."

This is why you are perceived as being unjust and unfair. You abuse the authority of your position by claiming to have secret knowledge about forum posters, whether they are members or anon guests.

It is clear to some of us katlaughing, that you and the other clones are operating only in your own vested self-interest (ie to "protect" your favorite posters and preserve the turf surrounding your little in-group clubhouse), and not in the best interests of the forum.

The way you conduct yourselves is troubling, to say the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Shambles has been asked to leave
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 11:20 AM

We've been through some really heated debates on being PC etc. and I resent your assumption that anyone who is liberal would want to ban you, or anyone else, with a differing viewpoint.

Didn't assume that anyone who is liberal would want to ban me. Just assumed that enough would that it might happen.

In actuality, no one who is liberal in the classic sense would want to ban anyone, unless the proposed banee had slipped so far into personal abuse or irrelevancy that it was obvious to everyone that they were making any useful discussion impossible. For that matter, no one who is conservative in the classic sense would want to, either.

America's two-party system has caused both viewpoints to calcify to the point of being oppressive, and each side realizes about the other but fails to see it in themselves.

Peter.