BS: nasty neighbour's cat

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 07:57 AM

Who said anything about shooting them, Becca? I don't hate cats. Even though I have a couple of neighborhood cats that visit my bird feeders, I couldn't just kill someone's pet.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:06 AM

the legal status of cats in the UK is "wild animal" and the owner cannot be held responsible - and neither can they sue you for anything you do - though the various animal organisations might have a say.

According to the RSPCA Water is OK, and the guy that told me that reckoned there was no specific force desiganted as cruel! "So", says he "pressure up". And he enjoyed seeing the cats literally skittle from the multiple jets he had secretly planted in his garden.

Others rely on the pet dog. Me? I just chase away the ones that make life awkward for the friendly ones. They know who they are.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Becca72
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:40 AM

I didn't say kill...I referred to a pellet gun I believe...

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:03 AM

Pellets can kill.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:11 AM

A friend of mine thought the same. He shot a cat with a pellet gun (to educate it, mind you). He educated it all the way through nine lives.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:17 AM

In the UK Domestic cats can be classed as property under the Theft and Criminal Damage Acts or equivalent legislation in Scotland. Thus you may be committing an offence if you intentionally or recklessly kill or injure them.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM

Trap it. Water it. Let it go back to its owner. Do that a few times. It will sooner or later get the idea. Otherwise, call your animal control people and have the cat removed. It isn't nice to kill people's animals. However, it isn't nice of people to allow their 'pets' free range of the neighbourhood. It's either a pet or it isn't. If it is, the owner has a responsibility to ensure it doesn't become a nuisance to you. Take Mark Twain's advice about getting a cat to eat mustard. It will ever after stay away from your property.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 10:43 AM

Responsibility?
RESPONSIBILITY??
We ain't got to have no steenking RESPONSIBILIYTY!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 11:16 AM

We have a similar problem. Our new (at the time) cat had only just established himself in the local cats' pecking order, when 5 cats moved in next door (with their owners) and started taking over our garden. Our cat has been involved in several fights, and so far cost us hundreds in vets' 'repair' bills. He's plucky, but fairly small and no match for the hulking brutes next door, who always seem unscathed as far as we can tell.

Of course if I see them in our garden I chase them away, but I can't be there all the time, so I need a way of keeping them out when I'm not there. Someone told me that you can get a special type of fencing that will keep cats out of your garden, but I've yet to see it on sale anywhere. Also the cost would be prohibitive, I suspect.

I had the idea of rigging up lots of water sprays around the garden, activated by infrared movement detectors, which would be neutralised by a transmitter on my cat's collar, so he would be able to wander round the garden unscathed, while interlopers would get soaked regularly. The problem is, the jets would be set off by other animals and birds, so I abandoned that plan.

I guess the idea of somehow trapping the cat, giving it a good soaking and then releasing it might work, as suggested above by Peace. Now, how to trap a cat - any suggestions?

How did Mark Twain get cats to eat mustard - force feed them?

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Rowan
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 05:04 PM

"Now, how to trap a cat - any suggestions?"

Meat smeared with fish oil works.

I too don't like killing animals, which is why I changed my methods of dealing with feral animals. But, as the owner of my property I am required to manage it, which occasionally forces one into difficult dilemmas. In NSW we have WIRES (Wildlife Information and REscue Service, in its original form) and Im one of the founders of the New England Branch, so I've been well exposed to many of the dilemmas. Because I have a lot of ROTAPs on my place and work in town I refuse to have sheep; I prefer macropods and other marsupials and they clutter up my driveway wonderfully. But technically, they're 'owned' by the Crown, not by me.

If I ran sheep and saw some uncontrolled dog on my place, harassing the sheep, the law would support me if I gave the dog a sudden dose of lead poisoning. If that same dog were harassing the wildlife on my property (arguably much more vulnerable, if less economically valuable), the law would prosecute me if I shot the dog. Many people express some surprise when I tell them this.

Feral cats are even worse for wildlife but there's not many records of them molesting sheep. Even though cats may be beautiful creatures, I prefer the wildlife and reserve the right to. appropriately, manage any cats on my property.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 05:23 PM

As for dogs, it's the same in the UK - a farmer has the right to shoot any dog which is worrying sheep. It doesn't have to have actually attacked the sheep; merely chasing them is reason enough to shoot the dog.
It doesn't often happen, but sometimes it's the only option. And any responsible dog owner living in a rural area will understand that.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Peace
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 05:32 PM

"How did Mark Twain get cats to eat mustard - force feed them?"

He suggested that one take a dollop of mustard and put it directly underneath the cat's tail.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 05:44 PM

And that's Colmans or Chinese mustard- not the prepared stuff you put on tube steaks.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:26 PM

you gotta catch the bloody thing first.





    ivor

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:51 PM

I'm sitting here LMAO

But I got the answer..................


















mustard pellets


check-out that bullseye

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 07:00 PM

Water balloons.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:30 AM

Right, so far we have:

- Trap the cat using meat smeared with fish oil as bait. But presumably you need a 'cat trap' of some sort. What would that be like? I imagine a giant spring-loaded mousetrap would do the job but might kill the cat in the process. I would prefer a humane way to catch the cat, bearing in mind that my own cat is likely to spring the trap before any of the others get to it. Anyone got any ideas as to what to use as a trap?

- having caught your cat, smear its a**e with Colman's mustard

- let it go, and it will (according to Mark Twain) never come back.

Any advice on cat-traps gratefully received!

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

Havahart live catch trap. However the cat will soon learn to avoid it.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 01:07 PM

Lace that water with mustard

Actually I am more of a cat man than a dogman.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:25 PM

I'm not sure about the American versions of these but in Australia, such traps are a 'box' made of wire mesh (the rigid sort) with a door at one end that is hinged and has a vertical extension on it so that, when open, the extension is held in place (and thus the door is open) by a catch that releases the extension if either a pressure pad (that the animal treads on when inside) or the bait is disturbed. The door shuts and the animal is unharmed by the process.

There are various patterns and design wrinkles that prevent long-tailed animals from either getting their tails caught or using them to jam the doo open but I'm sure you've got the picture. Dpepending on the animal's regard for the subesquent experience you may only ever catch it once or it will become a regular visitor, a problem wildlife surveyors have to cope with. You must check a set trap every eight hours (at most) or the animal ethics people will have your guts for garters, and it's only fair out of respect to the animal, no matter how 'verminous'.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 08:02 PM

Put away your guns, boys.

Burmese are darlings, but they're devils to fight.

My suggestion is this: your friend should go to her neighbour bearing a cake and a letter from her vet detailing her cat's injuries and how much they've cost to cure.

She should invite the neighbour in and share the cake, and explain that the adorable, affectionate, cuddly purrer at home turns into Mike Tyson when out.

And then she should make a deal with the neighbour on timing. Perhaps the neighbour can let his cat out in the morning and she can let hers out in the afternoon, or vice versa.

Cats normally sort these things out for themselves, and learn to time their rounds so that they can avoid each other. For some reason, these two cats haven't managed this, so the humans need to do it for them.

If the neighbour doesn't keep to the deal, she should perhaps ask him to share the vet's bill for the injuries caused to her cat (though to do so, she'll need to have proof that it's the Burmese).

But most neighbours are all right about doing this.

I had a cat myself some years ago, and a neighbour brought him home to me in her arms and explained that she'd found him beating up her cat. She demanded that I keep him in at all times, which I certainly wasn't going to do. But if she'd suggested that I let him out at a specific time, I would have been fine with that. It's what I do with my (Burmese) cat now.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scrump
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 06:39 AM

Havahart live catch trap. However the cat will soon learn to avoid it

Thanks for the info. If Mr Twain was right, once should be enough. Still not sure of the best way to apply the 'treatment' without getting bitten or scratched though. I don't imagine the cat will raise its tail and wait :-)

Regarding the advice from GUEST,JTT about dealing with the neighbour: one problem would be the difficulty of proving the injuries to your cat were indeed caused by the neighbour's cat. Where I live, there are other cats around, so the neighbour could justifiably say there's no evidence it was her cat that did the damage to yours. But maybe that's not the case with the OP's friend.

Secondly, keeping our cat in at specific times would be very difficult. If you have an 'outdoor' cat (as opposed to a 'house' cat) they resent being kept in against their will - at least, ours does. On the vet's advice, we recently had to keep him in while he recovered from one of the aforementioned battle wounds, and it was a nightmare for us! He constantly tries to find a way out, so we daren't open any windows, and have to block up the chimney, etc., while he constantly meows to show his displeasure at being kept in, and drives us nuts (he's Burmese too btw! - are these common among folkies?) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 03:59 PM

Like you can train a cat to do anything.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Rowan
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 04:00 PM

As a folkie I feel (and probably show) great displeasure at being kept in.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

You can train a cat to live indoors. When we moved from a 25 acre + ranch in WY where the cats could go in and out the window at will to a small colonial house on a busy street with not much of a yard in New England, they became indoor cats almost overnight. In fact, they went from the ranch to an airplane to two months in a motel room with daily walks on leashes, that was 6 cats and a dog, everyday. They adjusted. It's a matter of do you have the discipline and patience to outlast their yowling until they give up and mostly accept their plight in life. People who give up and let them back out are lacking in responsibility and backbone. If nothing else build them a chicken coop out the window and do everyone a favor.

20 reasons to keep your cat inside:

   1. Cars - Thousands of cats get hit by cars every year. If they are lucky, they die instantly.
   2. Car engines - Cats seek warmth. In the winter they tend to climb up inside car engines where they can be subsequently ground up.
   3. Anti-freeze - Cats like the sweet taste of anti-freeze, and they will lick it if able. Anti-freeze is extremely toxic and your cat will die a painful death within hours of ingesting it. It can take less than a teaspoon to kill a full-size cat or dog!
   4. Poisoning - There are people who don't like cats and will set out poison on their property. Others may put poison out to get rid of other wildlife that wanders onto their property and your cat may accidentally ingest it.
   5. Fighting - Your cat could be killed by dogs, raccoons, or other wildlife. Some people train their dogs to attack and kill cats.
   6. Fighting Part II - Believe it or not, cats can kill each other during their fights.
   7. FELV - Feline Leukemia destroys a cat's immune system. It is transmitted through body fluids. Even a sneeze can pass the virus from one cat to another. The vaccine for FELV is only 70 to 75% effective. Cats infected usually die within two years.
   8. FIV - Feline Immunosuppressive Virus also destroys a cat's immune system. It is transmitted through body fluids and cuts a cat's lifespan in half. There is no vaccination for FIV.
   9. FIP - Feline Infectious Peritonitis. FIP is always 100% fatal. Tests and vaccines for FIP are not reliable.
10. Animal Abuse - Cats are often shot with BB guns; burned with lighters, firecrackers; tortured by people causing loss of limbs, eyes, etc.
11. Starving to Death - People think that because they have lived in the same house for a number of years that their cat is too smart to wander off and get lost. NOT TRUE. People also think that because their cat has never left the front yard that it go any farther. NOT TRUE.
12. Getting Trapped - Your cat could get lost in somebody else's garage or utility shed. He could suffer brain damage if trapped in extreme heat or could suffer frostbite if trapped in extreme cold.
13. Research Labs - Your cat could get stolen and sold to a research lab. This practice does go on, even in Cincinnati!
14. Parasitic Infections - Your cat could eat something (rat, mouse, bird) and die of a parasitic infection
15. SPCA - Your cat could get taken in by someone thinking it is a stray. They might keep your cat or take it to the SPCA where it will be euthanized.
16. Unintentional Poisoning - By pesticides, lawn products, etc.
17. Fleas, ticks, worms, ringworm - Your cat could transmit these to other pets and people in the household.
18. Drowning - Your cat could accidentally fall in a swimming pool and drown.
19. Steel-Jaw Traps - People who live in the country think it's great to let cats out to roam. But many times domestic dogs and cats get caught in steel-jaw traps intended for other animals.
20. Spraying - When cats go outside they smell other cats' territorial markings. This may prompt your cat to start spraying inside the house to mark his territory.


More good reasons: click

Be sure to look at this guy's cat enclosure and his catruns inside his house. Awesome and nice-looking.

If you don't want to build your own, take a look at the links on the lower part of THIS PAGE.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: ragdall
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:42 PM

yowling until they give up and mostly accept their plight in life.

Sounds like a nice life?
I have a suggestion. If you are not in a place where a cat can have a normal existence, don't get a cat!

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 10:24 PM

normal for cats can be whatever they are acclimated to

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 10:36 PM

You could say the same about human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 12:05 AM

"This is moose turd pie!"

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 12:22 AM

Well the "yowling" etc. was said tongue in cheek, sorta. I've always had cats and none of them suffered, believe me, and they all adapted to wherever we lived, quite happily. Or, I should say cats have always had me! Keeping them inside, spaying and neutering, leads to a much less stressful life, in most cases, and definitely helps to keep down the overpopulation of cats. With so many being killed by overwhelemd shelters (NO! I do NOT agree with that practise!) I believe we should do everything we can to keep the population down, not to mention keeping any animal safe from traffic and tormenters.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scoville
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

Don't blame the shelters--they're overstuffed, understaffed, and underfunded. It's the fault of anyone who does not spay or neuter their pets. Someone here just dumped a hound mix with eight puppies because he didn't want to deal with her. She got caught in a coyote trap and the humane society is trying to raise funds to have her leg repaired and have her spayed, heartworm treated, shots for the pups, etc. SOB should have gotten her spayed a long time ago if he didn't want pups (and, as a mutt, she ought to have been spayed anyway). Sorry--I used to do animal rescue and I've about had it with people who do not take responsibility for their animals.

I don't like the idea of euthanizing homeless animals but if you've ever dealt with animals who have spent their lives in shelters, no-kill is not necessarily a humane option, either. If there were family-style foster homes for all of them, it would be one thing, but animals that spend their lives in institutional settings are often not healthy psychologically and can be very hard to socialize and rehabilitate. And the fact that they are so fearful makes them a safety hazard because they are more likely to bite. Pretty much the only solution is to get a handle on the pet population.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 09:48 AM

Oh, I don't blame the shleters, they do the best they can, but I DO support the No-Kill shelters as much as possible and there are a lot more of them, nowadays, than there used to be. I volunteered for the only one in WY about ten years ago, but there are at least more than one in that State, now, thank goodness. I DO hold to task pet owners who do not get their pets neutered or spayed.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 10:36 AM

You can train a cat to live indoors. [...] It's a matter of do you have the discipline and patience to outlast their yowling until they give up and mostly accept their plight in life.

Well, yes. Just like you can train a person to live indoors - by locking them in. The word 'plight' says it.

Yes, there are risks in the outside world, but you can do things to mitigate a lot of them (depending on where you live). You can have them treated against diseases and fleas, etc.

Would you keep your kids indoors on similar grounds? I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Scoville
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:01 AM

But you cannot cure feline leukemia or feline immunodeficiency virus, and fleas and ticks carry some nasty germs.

Cats do just fine indoors. Mine lived indoors for the last eight years of her life after getting chewed up one too many times (small cat, big ego). My brother's enormous Maine Coon mix hasn't been outside since they found him at four weeks old and is perfectly happy. I've known plenty of very contented indoor-only cats, and every vet I've ever asked recommends keeping them indoors for their own health and safety.

Yeah, they fuss for awhile, and then they forget it. The problem is that people keep them in and then don't give them anything to entertain themselves (like people who own Laboradors but don't exercise them, and then wonder why the dog is so out of control). They do need alternate activities such as a cat tree to climb and scratch.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM

Comparing cats to children is silly. Children are taught not to fight, to wash their hands, not to eat things they find outside and to look both ways before crossing the street. Cats, though smart in their own right, can't learn any of this and are in constant danger outside. I have always been kept by indoor cats ( I have 3 neutered ones now) and they are perfectly healthy and happy cats with lots of toys. I wouldn't dream of ever letting them outside. They are called "housecats" for a reason.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:16 AM

Cats are FOREVER washing their 'hands' Becca.......*G*

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

ok, so I stand corrected...Children are taught to wash their hands with hot water and soap, not their tongues...

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:26 AM

*S*

(missing being employed by cats)

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:30 AM

They are wonderful creatures, aren't they, Paul? I would have 10 of them if I didn't control myself. Of course, I've already warned my friends and family that some day I WILL be the crazy cat lady on the block.

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

Hehehe...

I have said I would never be without a cat, & other people have said it of me too, but have been without one for over 6 months now (though have moved 'house' TWICE in that time.

Its just that my 1st ever cat was also the one I had most recently (having had 3 others in the intervening time as well as him) & to get new cats (though I'll do it eventually) doesnt seem quite right yet. (& the other cat simply went missing during 1st house move, so he is not likely to have died).

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: ragdall
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 03:57 AM

Comparing cats to children is silly. Children are taught not to fight, to wash their hands, not to eat things they find outside and to look both ways before crossing the street. Cats, though smart in their own right, can't learn any of this and are in constant danger outside.

I now see the error of my ways. I spent too much time training the cats and not enough time training the children.

While the cats never had fleas, worms, other parasites, or fungus infections, I did have to dose the children for worms and apply fungicide to ringworm. (We had no cats at those times). To the best of my knowledge, the children never had lice or fleas. The children did, however, fight. Also, they grew up gathering, and eating, things they found outside, nature's bounty of fruits, berries and fungi.

The cats were trained that the street was "out of bounds", (as were the tables, kitchen counters, etc.). While this took time and patience, it was not difficult to teach and they certainly could, and did, learn this and abide by it. The most recent cat died, because of diabetes, at age 18. Even in his last days, one of his greatest joys was to be outdoors, in his garden.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: nasty neighbour's cat
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 04:43 AM

You can indeed train cats, and it's good fun for both cats and humans to do so.

I would never personally let a cat outside overnight during nesting season, for instance, and with my current cat I prefer to let him out for a couple of hours in mid-morning, then whistle him in. (It happens that this suits my work schedule.)