BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism

Subject: BS: More GWB and the Rise of American Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 11:59 AM

The original thread by this title having been closed, here's another one to capture scintillating dark tidbits on the path of betrayal, such as this excerpt from today's NY Times:

WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 — The Pentagon has been using a little-known power to obtain banking and credit records of hundreds of Americans and others suspected of terrorism or espionage inside the United States, part of an aggressive expansion by the military into domestic intelligence gathering.


The C.I.A. has also been issuing what are known as national security letters to gain access to financial records from American companies, though it has done so only rarely, intelligence officials say.

Banks, credit card companies and other financial institutions receiving the letters usually have turned over documents voluntarily, allowing investigators to examine the financial assets and transactions of American military personnel and civilians, officials say.

The F.B.I., the lead agency on domestic counterterrorism and espionage, has issued thousands of national security letters since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, provoking criticism and court challenges from civil liberties advocates who see them as unjustified intrusions into Americans' private lives.

But it was not previously known, even to some senior counterterrorism officials, that the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency have been using their own "noncompulsory" versions of the letters. Congress has rejected several attempts by the two agencies since 2001 for authority to issue mandatory letters, in part because of concerns about the dangers of expanding their role in domestic spying. ...

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 01:56 PM

And, unbeknownst to the rest of us, they have been opening our mail at will- wherever they perceive us as being a potential threat.

Makes me wonder if or when the time comes that we MUST revolt how many of our proposed plans and ideas would be silently monitored.

We need a different administration, at the very least. Actually, we desperately need a 'Loss of Confidence' capability.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:15 AM

Why bother? with a 'first past the post' voting system, you only have 2 political parties to get and keep 'corrupted', and since they have 'taken turns' for the last oh, ages, if there WERE any conspiracy, only a real fool would not have 'bought' both parties.

Ever notice how BOTH parties attack and do their best to destroy ANY candidate who is 'independent' or of a 'new party'?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: JeremyC
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Sshh, they're reading what you're saying RIGHT NOW! Do you want to get 'detained' or something?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:58 PM

The lack of responses to this thread illustrates the confines of political thought in both the US and UK.

Basically most people don't want to be bothered contemplating any alternative to the "one party system"
Most believe and will continue to believe that "progress" and economic prosperity are what they are portrayed to be by the politicians.
During my lifetime, I believe we have regressed not progressed politically...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 05:13 PM

I agree. We have regressed tremendously. All the mainstream political parties have been bought out by the same huge financial interests, and they cannot be expected to responsibly represent the public. Any smaller parties are rendered ineffective by the fact that those same huge financial interests own the mass media, which have become an outlet for a mixture of empty entertainment and manipulative propaganda.

Our electoral system as it stands is basically a fraud. It's better than no electoral system, but not much.

Many of the prophecies contained in books like "Brave New World" and "1984" have come true...but in a different manner than presented in those books. They have been accomplished not through a dour Stalin-like socialist monolithic government and system, but through a corporate-controlled multi-party system and flashy mass marketing of consumer goods.

Very clever. And much more effective than the grim and boring Stalinist approach. The monkey in the cage will not even notice he's in a cage if you give him enough toys, drugs, and entertainment. The entertainment, by the way, is mostly based around gratuitous images of sex, partying, and extreme violence. This does not assist in building a psychologically healthy society.

More than anything else, it resembles the declining days of the Roman Empire.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:57 PM

And THAT illustrates why LH is one of the most perceptive and original posters on Mudcat ....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:50 PM

I dunno. While I appreciate some of the similarities, I'd say human nature has not grown that much and we should not be surprised at the endless repetition of certain patterns in our species' numb-nutted limbic antics. Aside from those, I'd say our present period has to be faced for its own evils and in its own moment. Because our networks have so multiplied and accelerated and our technologies of force so magnified, it is a lot more unsettling, I think, than the worst prognostications of Olde Rome.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:53 PM

Well, yes, it is worse. The Romans did not yet have the ability to ruin the entire ecology of the world. We do.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:59 PM

Once upon a time in the Sahara Forest . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:14 PM

Well, that's what they called it then...


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Ahmabig Bu
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:37 PM

I respectfully disagree on the regression thing. Because of the internet, the cannon fodder is becoming self-aware. The only way the power elite can now stop an uprising of humanity is to bomb us all back into the stoneage. They're willing to do it, but I think they've lost their window of opportunity. They should have disarmed America decades ago. As it is now, Americans have had too long a look at the arrogance and disregard for human life by the likes of the Bushes and Clintons. We can't ever go back. These monsters are history. They will be pulled down and ground into the dust of history. Just a matter of time.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:42 PM

I hope you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:42 PM

I hope that when they do fall, their voyage into history is a bit more compassionate than they were.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Slag
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

Don't forget "Little Pogo". "We have met the Enemy, and they is Us!" or words to that effect. We all belong to something. We are NOT independent creatures no matter how much we would like to believe otherwise. I've harped on this theme in other threads but it's still true. I Winter, the lone wolf dies.

Is it the race of Man that is defective or just the defectives in the race of Man that perpetuate the problem(s) micro to macro? If you are going to effect change, how may that change be corrupted or misused? How do you get inside of the mind of the corrupted or worse, the corruptors without being corrupted yourself? It's daunting. And especially when you understand how like sheep most people are. They DON'T want to think. They just want their little patch and not have to be concerned with anything else. And they are SO easily lead, either to the shearer or the slaughter, it matters not which. God help us all. We are part of something, but WHAT?

"Be ware, when you say you stand, lest you fall."

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:09 PM

Ahhh...the betrayal of silence is defening...

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:11 AM

At the close of the last session, Congress passed a finance bill into which one Senator had inserted a five-word change to the UCMJ, giving military courts the authority to try civilians working in "undeclared conflict areas."

Brief description at Military trials for civilians? (Washington Post). Numerous other comments are up on the web.

"At least theoretically, contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan have been subject to criminal law in the United States through the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, known as MEJA. That law, passed in 2000, is supposed to expand federal prosecutors' authority to foreign battlefields. But MEJA has yet to be used to prosecute contractors."

"Allegations of contractor involvement in detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib were referred to federal prosecutors in 2004, but there have been no indictments. Late last year, two former employees of a private security firm in Iraq filed suit, alleging that a superior had shot at civilians without provocation. There, too, no charges have been filed. There have also been several unconfirmed reports of contractors firing at U.S. forces.

""Not one contractor of the entire military industry in Iraq has been charged with any crime over the last 3 and a half years, let alone prosecuted or punished," Singer wrote. "Given the raw number of contractors, let alone the incidents we know about, it boggles the mind.""

While allowing military courts to prosecute, the jurisdiction of the military courts would appear as an ex post facto risk for any "crimes" committed prior to the effective date of this law, and if anything lessens the likelihood of prosecution under MEJA. This new quirk is intended to appear as an effort to increase prosecution, but appears as an effort to muddy jurisdiction so as to protect the guilty - to me at least.

Exactly what the "military courts" can do is seriously muddied by inaccessibility of the applicable documents. The "Law" as enacted by Congress is almost entirely included in the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" (UCMJ) [TITLE 10, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 47 of US Federal Regulations.] That part of it is fairly easy to come by, for example at UCMJ. Note the link at the top of the page for "Amendments" which do not currently include this latest one.

The effect and application of this rather brief bit of lawmaking is left "to the President" who, as Commander In Chief, is responsible for incorporating "the details," principally in the "Manual for Courts Martial" which is a book that is required to be in the possession of, or immediately accessible to, every commissioned officer in the US military. "The book" however is infrequently republished, and is subject to changes by "executive orders" issued by the Prez. The last Executive Order (eo13387_mcm05amend.pdf) I found a couple of months ago was 20 pages of "replace paragraph 99.7.342.5.a with "whatever the Prez says,"" illegible and incomprehensible without a copy of the then current "book."

A new MCM is "available" at Manuals for Courts Martial where the 2005 MCM probably incorporates at least through that EO, but it's a 55.3 MB download, and my dial-up connection has "failed before finish" on 3 consecutive attempts (after about 3 to 5 hours per attempt).

Replacing civilian courts with "emergency military courts" is one of the first things Hitler and his thugs did too - so I'm "guardedly suspicious" here.

John

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 09:28 PM

From a correspondent, another gruesome reminder of what Georgie hath wrought:


http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011907Parry.shtml


In one of the most chilling public statements ever made by a U.S.
Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales questioned whether the U.S.
Constitution grants habeas corpus rights of a fair trial to every
American.


Responding to questions from Sen. Arlen Specter at a Senate Judiciary
Committee hearing on Jan. 18, Gonzales argued that the Constitution
doesn't explicitly bestow habeas corpus rights; it merely says when
the so-called Great Writ can be suspended.
"There is no expressed grant of habeas in the Constitution; there's a
prohibition against taking it away," Gonzales said.
Gonzales's remark left Specter, the committee's ranking Republican,
stammering.
"Wait a minute," Specter interjected. "The Constitution says you
can't take it away except in case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn't
that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there's a
rebellion or invasion?"
Gonzales continued, "The Constitution doesn't say every individual in
the United States or citizen is hereby granted or assured the right
of habeas corpus. It doesn't say that. It simply says the right shall
not be suspended" except in cases of rebellion or invasion."

"You may be treading on your interdiction of violating common sense,"
Specter said.

While Gonzales's statement has a measure of quibbling precision to
it, his logic is troubling because it would suggest that many other
fundamental rights that Americans hold dear also don't exist because
the Constitution often spells out those rights in the negative.
For instance, the First Amendment declares that "Congress shall make
no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

continued.....

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 02:24 AM

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."...Sinclair Lewis

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:02 AM

"The federal investigation into Congressional corruption is approaching a crucial deadline and potential dead end. Feb. 15 is the last day on the job for United States Attorney Carol Lam of San Diego, the inquiry's dedicated prosecutor, who is being purged by the Bush administration.

Her investigation led to the imprisonment of former Representative Randy Cunningham, the California Republican who took millions of dollars in bribes in exchange for delivering lucrative government contracts. But just as Ms. Lam was digging into other possible wrongdoing, the White House decided to force her from office without explanation.

Ms. Lam has been investigating the dealings of Brent Wilkes, a private contractor and deep-pocketed political contributor who was designated co-conspirator No. 1 in the Cunningham case. Mr. Wilkes developed other cozy relationships. Among other avenues, the inquiry has been looking into rich government contracts secured by corporations and lobbyists with ties to Representative Jerry Lewis — the former appropriations chairman — and his staff. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Mr. Wilkes could be indicted before Ms. Lam leaves office. The question now is whether her successor, as yet unnamed, will pursue the inquiry with the same dedication or will quietly smother it.

The outlook isn't promising. The administration is defenestrating at least six other U.S. attorneys. Yet Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is refusing to provide Congress with details on these unmerited dismissals. He insists that there's no attempt to quash fresh Republican scandals and says only the "very best" will be named as replacements.

We are skeptical, especially since the White House's reported choice to replace Little Rock's federal attorney is a Republican operative close to Karl Rove. Congress must demand a clear explanation from Mr. Gonzales and the White House on why these prosecutors are being ousted. It must search out every shady aspect of this clearly politically motivated purge — with a particular eye on Feb. 15."

(Times editorial)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 06:55 PM

Every time I have made the following comment I have been solidly slapped down by people on both sides of the political devide, with epithets applied ranging from naive to stupid. However, since so many are now making comments on two party politics similar to my own, expressed over a period of several years, here goes one final attempt.

What I see as the only workable democratic political system based on faithfully representing the PEOPLE of the USA, and of the UK is the following.

1. Each constituency to elect a representative from a list of candidates who have a proven track record of public service to the LOCAL population. Reasonable campaign funds from the public purse, the same amount for each candidate.

2. The representative elect to swear an oath of allegiance to HIS/HER CONSTITUENTS, and publically repudiate all affiliations to any party or corporate organisation or group.

3. The representative to be subject to an absolute committment to account for his actions to a jury of constituents, if and when there is evidence that he/she has broken any condition of rule 2, and if proven, be subject to instant dismissal and replacement.

4. The representatives to elect one of their number president (PM in the case of the UK) solely to chair the meetings of the government.

5. All national policy decisions, especially use of military force to be made by majority vote of the representatives.

6. An undertaking, on pain of criminal prosecution, not to accept, within a ten year period of leaving office, employment in any corporation which held government contracts during the period of tenure as a representative.

7. A decent severance package to be standard on completion of the term of office, if not re-elected, tho' I think the good ones would be re-elected for sure.


IMHO, the needs and requirements of citizens are pretty much the same in almost all constituencies, and if they are paramount in the thinking of men who do not want to find themselves suddenly on the dole, the chances of corruption are at least considerably reduced.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:26 PM

That Gonzales quote is the most shameful thing I have read in a very, very long time. Surely he must be censured by the American Bar Association for something like this. It is hard to believe anyone could say anything so completely appalling in a democratic society ruled by laws and not by men (as the saying goes).

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM

Today, a British Daily Newspaper,The Daily Mail, has come out and openly referred to the Labour Party government as "The Fascist Left", which is exactly what they have become !! There will have to be a revolution soon, before it"s too late.This government has gone too far with its erosion of civil liberties,its highly intrusive and paranoid surveillance measures,and its signal failure to take ANY notice at all of the British Public and their needs and wishes.Of course , it"s going to be a lot harder over here,as successive governments ,since 1922,have made it virtually impossible for any individual to own a firearm of ANY sort.In fact,if we use any kind of force to defend ourselves against an assailant,the Fascist police will immediately arrest us for violating our attacker"s "Human Rights " !!! It sounds like a sick joke, but it"s TRUE !! We in Britain are DESPERATE-----We need support,we need weapons,we need leaders,we need training,We MUST get rid of these Traitors who have sold our country down the river,permitted UNRESTRICTED immigration,openly allowed Muslim Terrorists to preach religious hatred against us on the streets of London,and failed UTTERLY to deal with the ever increasing levels of violent crime on our streets.Ninety percent of the population are too terrified to go out at night for fear of being robbed or killed by the scum that inhabits the dark doorways of our filthy streets,while our ineffectual,politically correct Police are too scared to venture outside of their offices. I am not paranoid,and I"m not being alarmist--We are in SERIOUS trouble over here,and we need an ally !!
It"s alright for you Americans,you are all armed and you have the leadership,but we Brits are in a hell of a mess !!!

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 08 May 07 - 07:29 PM

erizon says phone record disclosure is protected free speech

By Nate Anderson | Published: May 07, 2007 - 01:48PM CT

Verizon is one of the phone companies currently being sued over its
alleged disclosure of customer phone records to the NSA. In a response
to the court last week, the company asked for the entire consolidated
case against it to be thrown out - on free speech grounds.

The response also alleges that the case should be thrown out because
even looking into the issue could violate state secrets, of course, but
a much longer section of the response tries to make the case that
Verizon has a First Amendment right to "petition" the government. "Based
on plaintiffs' own allegations, defendants' right to communicate such
information to the government is fully protected by the Free Speech and
Petition Clauses of the First Amendment," argue Verizon's lawyers.

Essentially, the argument is that turning over truthful information to
the government is free speech, and the EFF and ACLU can't do anything
about it. In fact, Verizon basically argues that the entire lawsuit is a
giant SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) suit, and
that the case is an attempt to deter the company from exercising its
First Amendment right to turn over customer calling information to
government security services.

"Communicating facts to the government is protected petitioning
activity," says the response, even when the communication of those facts
would normally be illegal or would violate a company's owner promises to
its customers. Verizon argues that, if the EFF and other groups have
concerns about customer call records, the only proper remedy "is to
impose restrictions on the government, not on the speaker's right to
communicate."

With all of the phone company cases consolidated into one master case,
Verizon is hoping to have the case thrown out on free-speech grounds,
putting an end to its legal troubles over the issue. Should it fail, the
Bush administration is already preparing to ask Congress for retroactive
immunity for all telecommunications companies that assisted the
government after September 11, 2001. The government is also fighting
hard in court on behalf of the phone companies, filing repeated briefs
which claim that "state secrets" trump even the legality of the alleged
security programs.

---

I am curious to know whether anyone sees a logical flaw in the argument that a corporation is exercising its right to free speech by turning over phone records of citizens to the government's National Security Administration.

If a corporation is a legal entity, granted a virtual sort of personhood, then of course it enjoys the protections of the Consittution. So this makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Well, doesn't it?

Let's see who sees the creeping fascism in this wonderful inversion by means of which free speech = government control of speech.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 May 07 - 07:36 PM

Listen to the BBC - we are the bad example now, with China and whoever else is being less than what others would like... we used to be the GOOD example... *sigh* I miss the old America.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: dianavan
Date: 08 May 07 - 07:37 PM

Free speech is one thing; right to privacy another.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 08 May 07 - 08:23 PM

Well, speech is not exactly free when you know it can be turned over to the NSA. Especially in conjunction with Bush's insistence on the right to wiretap anyone anywhen.

It is shameful, in my view, that a corporation can take the position that because the facts of its records are true, their privacy may be breached without so much as notification. It is profoundly anti-constitutional, while glibly invoking the Constitution as rationalization.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 07 - 08:59 PM

Gonzales has his supporters on Mudcat. Now, THAT is scary!

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 05:38 PM

Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/12/
flying_into_data_hell/

US demands air passengers ask its permission to fly
By Wendy M. Grossman
Published Friday 12th October 2007 13:18 GMT

"Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (PDF) (TSA)
all airline passengers would need advance permission before
flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of
citizenship or the airline's national origin.

Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System, operated by the
Customs and Border Patrol, requires airlines to forward a list of
passenger information no later than 15 minutes before flights from
the US take off (international flights bound for the US have until 15
minutes after take-off). Planes are diverted if a passenger on board
is on the no-fly list.

The new rules mean this information must be submitted 72 hours before
departure. Only those given clearance will get a boarding pass. The
TSA estimates that 90 to 93 per cent of all travel reservations are
final by then.

The proposed rules require the following information for each
passenger: full name, sex, date of birth, and redress number
(assigned to passengers who use the Travel Redress Inquiry Program
because they have been mistakenly placed on the no-fly list), and
known traveller number (once there is a programme in place for
registering known travellers whose backgrounds have been checked).
Non-travellers entering secure areas, such as parents escorting
children, will also need clearance."

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 10:15 PM

'"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."...Sinclair Lewis...'


                   Yeah, that's kind of the way it worked. And now we have political entities waving their fists in the air, screaming about Islamo-fascits.

                   Maybe it's just religion that's the problem here, regardless of the flavor.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 12:10 AM

A beautiful and interesting essay by Studs Terkel, called "The Wiretap This Time", reviews the history of authoritarian extremes in America.

Recommended.


An excerpt:

"...n 1978, with broad public support, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which placed national security investigations, including wiretapping, under a system of warrants approved by a special court. The law was not perfect, but as a result of its enactment and a series of subsequent federal laws, a generation of Americans has come to adulthood protected by a legal structure and a social compact making clear that government will not engage in unbridled, dragnet seizure of electronic communications.

The Bush administration, however, tore apart that carefully devised legal structure and social compact. To make matters worse, after its intrusive programs were exposed, the White House and the Senate Intelligence Committee proposed a bill that legitimized blanket wiretapping without individual warrants. The legislation directly conflicts with the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, requiring the government to obtain a warrant before reading the e-mail messages or listening to the telephone calls of its citizens, and to state with particularity where it intends to search and what it expects to find...."

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 08:13 PM

There is no express grant of life liberty or the pursuit of happiness in the Constitution either.

Yes I know thats not the point but to be completely candid there are several right wing think tanks currently engaged in creating new language and arguements toward the elimination of the current US Constitution.

They are calling for the certain eventuallity of a national referendum to scrap the old and usher in a new Constitution that will be more user friendly....


to corporations.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 08:19 PM

It isn't religion that's the problem, Rinslinger...it is political powermongers using religion for their own ends that is the problem.

You might say the same thing about bombs, armed forces, money, and guns. They are not a problem in themselves, they are a problem when put to improper use.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 09:32 AM

An excerpt from an OpEd News article of Feb 1 2008:

"The New Crime of Thinking
by Gary D. Barnett, February 1, 2008

It looks like the term "thought police" just might take on a whole new and real meaning. This depends on what happens in the U.S. Senate after receiving House bill H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This act (now S-1959 — Senate version) is now being considered by Senate committees and, if passed by the Senate and signed by the president, will become law. Common sense would indicate that something this vague and dangerous would not make it out of committee, but considering that the House passed it on October 23 with 404 ayes, 6 nays, and 22 present/not voting, I'm not holding my breath.

The most disturbing aspects of this bill, and there are many, are the definitions noted in Section 899a. The three offenses defined in this document that will warrant prosecution are:

"Violent Radicalization: The term 'violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change."

"Homegrown Terrorism: The term 'homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

"Ideologically based violence: The term 'ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs."

Besides the fact that this Act would greatly expand an already monstrous bureaucracy (Homeland Security Act of 2002), it is on its very face a threat to all ideological thinking not approved by the state. Any citizen at any given time could be considered a terrorism suspect and accused or prosecuted for "bad" thoughts. Since the very act of thinking could now be considered a crime, how would the populace react to this new paradigm? Would political debate among the citizenry become more subdued? Would watch groups, whether police or private, arise to monitor individual and group conversations? Would speaking out and writing against the government become a dangerous activity?

The language contained in this proposed legislation is not only vague, it is also broad, sweeping, and unclear. The tenebrous and obscure nature of the above definitions is obviously not an accident. The broader the net, the more who are caught; the more who are caught, the more who live in fear of being caught. Ambiguity and fear are mighty deterrents, and ambiguity and fear foster obedience. In this case, unconditional obedience to the mighty state and its many dictates. ..."

---

I don't like arm-waving polemic, but the notion that a person can be prosecuted for "adopting or promoting an extremist belief system " is steering awfully close to the Big Brother nightmares of 1984.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 06:10 AM

"bombs, armed forces, money, and guns. They are not a problem in themselves, they are a problem when put to improper use"

....AH....but.... what is a 'PROPER USE'.... :-)


"process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change."
"use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."
"use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs."

Ah - just tell the religious right (the main source of support for this Bill) that this means that killing someone for performing abortions is a terrorist offence (and indeed most of the activities of many related groups...) and the Bill will vanish in a puff of smoke...

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 07:26 AM

Bubblyrat, your post here is a shame to this thread, and your selection of the Daily Mail as a supporter or source of actual fact is worse.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:23 AM

This is a good use for weapons of war, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 11:44 PM

WASHINGTON Ñ President Bush quietly has claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant.

Bush asserted the new authority Dec. 20 after signing legislation that overhauls some postal regulations. He then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open mail under emergency conditions, contrary to existing law and contradicting the bill he had just signed, according to experts who have reviewed it.

A White House spokeswoman disputed claims that the move gives Bush any new powers, saying the Constitution allows such searches.

Still, the move, one year after The New York Times' disclosure of a secret program that allowed warrantless monitoring of Americans' phone calls and e-mail, caught Capitol Hill by surprise.

"Despite the president's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.

Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.

"The [Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.

"You have to be concerned," a senior U.S. official agreed. "It takes executive-branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."

A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised a review of Bush's move.

"It's something we're going to look into," the aide said.
advertising

Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane changes. But the legislation also explicitly reinforces protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.

Yet, in his statement, Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."

Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming new authority.

---

The alacrity with which he writes new laws is remarkable. The disregard he holds for previous laws even more so. This man is a danger to civilization.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:00 AM

The term 'violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change

This is a perfect description of the current administration and its activities. Maybe we'll be able to put them in jail if this law gets passed.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,coyote breath w/o cookie
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:57 PM

Ahh the idea of Bushnchaney extraordinarily renditioned to Gitmo for a little water boarding! Surf's up!

warms my heart, it does.

CB

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:05 PM

The United States has unilaterally cancelled a domain name in the .com TLD owned by a British citizen operating from Spain who ran a travel agency.

This arrogant unilateral politically-motivated action, based on the fact that the site sold trips to Cuba for Europeans and British citizens, without recourse or review, is another sample of the overweening pushiness of the current administration's world-view.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM

March 26, 2008 at 10:12:38

P.N.A.C. & Fascism & Bush

by G.E. Nordell, is an interesting, if slightly panic-stricken analysis of the encroachments against the Constitution, posse comitatus, and other cornerstones of the democratic republic and the founding document which, in part, informed them -- the imperial PNAC.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 01:18 PM

From the link:

"Congress has already issued subpoenas for Harriet Meiers, Karl Rove, Alberto Gonzales and others; failure to appear will result in votes for 'inherent contempt of Congress', which will put them in jail. The impeachment of Rove and Gonzales and Bush and Cheney and Rice will lead to a critical confrontation between the three branches of government."

Well, we already know that didn't work- Congress didn't pass the contempt of Congress vote.

This one may be true though: "The year 2008 is certain to be a long and hot campaign year."

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM

A "proper use" of military weapons, Foolestroupe, is the use of them to resist any foreign aggressor who is deliberately attacking, invading, and/or occupying one's own homeland (or ships, etc).

Such genuine self-defence is the natural right of any nation or community, and that has been understood ever since the most primitive days of human development. Animals who are territorial also understand the concept quite well.

An improper use of military weapons is to use them in a first strike of one's own free choosing on someone who has NOT attacked one's homeland (or ships, etc).

Aggression is improper. Self-defence is proper.

Supposed self-defence that is totally out of proportion to a perceived "attack" is also improper...for example...the USA has spuriously used certain marine incidents (whether real or concocted) to justify launching wars in the past (like against Spain or in Vietnam). Those were not cases of legitimate self-defence, they were case of finding an insincere and flimsy excuse to do what you wanted to do in the first place anyway. That's really aggression masquerading as self-defence.

The Germans also did that sort of thing in regards to Poland in '39. They claimed that the Poles had attacked them first (with a border raid), which was an outright lie. The Germans themselves fabricated the border raid, using prisoners in Polish uniforms whom they shot dead.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

I note with interest that the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 cited above would leave the IRA or Sinn Fein more than a little exposed...

organisations that many Americans seemed happy to support so long as they only bombed the Irish and British.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 03:58 PM

Who else have they bombed, Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 11:03 PM

I don't see how the IRA would be motivated to bomb anyone other than the Brits and Protestants in Northern Ireland, have they?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: fumblefingers
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 08:49 PM

Terrorists and criminals from all parts of the world should be able to expect complete privacy when it comes to conspiring via telephone, mail and email. They deserve a head start on the authorities. Activist judges do their part, but it simply isn't enough.

Then there is Joe Brie-Eater. He doesn't want to take a chance that the law will find out about all the pornsites he visits, particulaly the one with the poofters.

Good thing that evil GWB won't be in office this time next year. Surely Hillary or Obama will make all your dreams come true. It will be interesting to see what this BS forum looks like a year from now.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 09:11 PM

Maybe we'll get McCain!

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 09:37 PM

Fumblefingers:

Aren't you just a piece of work, with your imaginary enemies and delusory situational justifications for your well-reasoned hatefulness.

The people who deserve privacy int heir correspomdence, email and phone conversations are the hardworking private citizens of this country. I am one, for example. And I insist that the tradition of respecting privacy of the private citizen be honored, and restored where the stupidity of leaders has compromised it. And before you even open your yap, no, I do not have a single goddamn thing to hide, except my irritation with small-minded right-wing reactionaries who feel completely comfortable deciding what is or is not right for other private citizens.

If the Bush administration was doing half its job, we would have tracked down a good many more of the criminals you are so concerned about, and brought them to the great bar of American justice. Instead, we spent our lives and our treasure on invading a foreign country of no real threat, dissipated our attention and threw the bar into the sewer.

Defending these idiocies is shameful, IMHO.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:20 PM

"When we called for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to resign for her role in approving the torture of people in American custody, we knew it would be a tough fight.

Over 70,000 people like you took action and demanded she resign. We ran a 30 second T.V. ad laying out the facts. And everyone from MSNBC's Countdown to ABC News to the Washington Post reported on Sec. Rice's involvement.

The New York Times editorial board put it all into perspective and lays out why our campaign is important even though the Bush Administration will be out of office in less than a year:


"...as national security adviser and now as secretary of state, Ms. Rice has been central to policy formulation and execution. Yet, while Mr. Rumsfeld was almost run out of Washington on a rail, her name still surfaces now and again as a potential vice presidential candidate."

Our movement calling on all three presidential candidates to reject torture and demand Sec. Rice resign is growing.

Click here to add your voice.

After you sign, send it on to five friends and ask them to sign it too.

Together, we will hold the Bush administration accountable for breaking the law -- even if we have to take them down one person at a time.

Thank you for everything you do,"

(Mailing from Democracy for America)

I have signed this demand.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:10 AM

I'm sure the election of President Obama will stop the rise of American fascism dead in it's tracks.

After all, it isn't like he is bought and paid for as a dancing puppet of corporate interests or anything.

The perfect flavor of Republicrat, Obama is.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:21 AM

Poor Janet. Feeling slightly bitter, are we?

Sounds like you still need to keep looking for a more powerful sedative.

Good luck.

And I hope life starts treating you better so you're not quite so sour.

Though your entertainment value is as high as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:50 AM

No, we aren't feeling bitter at all, Ronny boy. Prez Obama is going to be all about the Republicrat status quo. Which makes the likes of you feel oh, so very safe.

And I'm thrilled it is all winding down, because the so-called "political process" is nothing but media hype horse race shit anyway.

And now that they'll have nothing to talk about (as if there ever was anything besides the media's venal spinning of "whose gonna win it, the nigger or the bitch?" crap), and the only truly progressive and authentic agents of change were driven from the party ranks with fury and contempt early on (that would be Kucinich and Edwards--the white guys, go figure!), your Autocratic Republicrat world is safe and sound from the likes of me.

But Ronny boy, you might want to have look-see at the date this thread was started. Long before Your Savior won Iowa. Hmmmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: bankley
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:51 AM

**" United we stand on the brink of the New World Order totalitarian police state.... United we are so blind"

** from 'Anthem for Dissent'

so...when the house is on fire, we don't need a lullaby

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:59 AM

Fantz reminds me of Lyndon LaRouche, Ron...

She can sound so intllegent and then just wanders off into the "Pointless Forest"...

Oh well, she is indeed entertaining...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:24 AM

Says the Mudcat Cheerleading Section for the Biggest Fat Cat Corporate Politician in Human History.

Do you know, Bobert ol' boy, that in 2005 the Energy Policy Act, which had enormous giveaways to oil companies, tax breaks, subsidies, etc., was voted against by Senator Hillary Clinton, Senator John Kerry, and Senator John McCain?

But your boy, Bobert--he voted FOR the oil companies, just like a good corporate puppet does for his corporate masters.

The Obamamaniacs consistently choose to completely ignore Obama's conservative senatorial votes on war appropriations, the reauthorization of the Patriot Act, a Mining Act amendment, and the approval of Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state.

But hey, who gives a shit when Your Savior sounds like Martin Luther King Jr., but votes like George W. Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:54 AM

Funny, how silent the Obamamaniacs fall when Obama's Senate voting record gets mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:09 AM

Do you know, Bobert ol' boy, that in 2005 the Energy Policy Act, which had enormous giveaways to oil companies, tax breaks, subsidies, etc., was voted against by Senator Hillary Clinton, Senator John Kerry, and Senator John McCain? But your boy, Bobert--he voted FOR the oil companies..


I wonder why he did that? It's a pity there is not some dispassionate, non-histrionic explanation.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:24 AM

"I wonder why he did that? It's a pity there is not some dispassionate, non-histrionic explanation."

Yet you never bothered when it was a Bush decision ( wondering why OR looking for some dispassionate, non-histrionic explanation.)

Do I detect a slight bias in your desired treatment of politicians based on whethre YOU want them in office?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:47 AM

Yes, Bruce, it seems that you do.

By way of explanation, the trend that establishes this bias is that in the last eight years, every explanation I have heard Bush offer seemed self-serving and disingenuous, while almost every time I have heard barak explain something he seems thoughtful, willing to look at himself as honestly as possible, and more interested in communicating than in lying.

Bush has taught me to expect duplicity, while Obama has taught me to expect a degree of thoughtfulness even in decisions I disagree with.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:23 AM

Amos,

"while almost every time I have heard barak explain something he seems thoughtful, willing to look at himself as honestly as possible, and more interested in communicating than in lying."

So, I will presume you have no problem with those of us (who see in Barack's explaination an attempt to salvage political power instead of standing by his previous statements) treating Obama as you have treated Bush- since it "seems" that Obama would now abandon even his grandmother ( equivalanced BY Obama to his minister) away if it gets him political effect.

At least I thought that in some cases Bush ( whether right or wrong) actually believed what he was saying.

I would like to support Obama- I do think that he is correct in trying to move away from the politics of division. Unfortunately, those supporting him here on Mudcat do not give me any confidence that he means it any more than other politicians. They seem dedicated to the politics of division, and not interested in even trying to understand what others might be thinking, or might feel about various topics.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:34 AM

I think the grandmother button is a pure fallacy. I don't think he threw his grandmother under the bus!!

As for Rev. Wright, it seems to me he had a fair and open opportunity to join the side of reasoned perspective, and chose to stick with his provincial hot-headed stance in a way that was directly harmful to Obama's campaign and repute. Obama did not throw him overboard gratuitously; he fired him, figuratively, for what was essentially a betrayal.

It may well be that Jeremiah was only sticking to his melodramatic guns, but he could have done so in fifteen different ways, and the one he chose was to bitch-slap Obama publicly.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:01 PM

And when someone's minister of 20 years, a mentor, does that YOU have no comment about the person being "slapped"?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:21 PM

First of all, people do and can change their positions... It's called maturity... Immature people are to stuck in one place and not able to move forward... George Bush, IMO, is immature in that has not gotten to a point where he is flexible enough to change positions...

Secondly, what Amos said... There may be a perfectly good reason why Obama voted that way...

Thirdly, and perhaps most important, is that Obama has been under attack from three sides: McMedia, McCain and McClinton and I have yet to see where he ducked any questions... And that perhaps is one of the qualities that millions of us who support him like about him...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:25 PM

Only time will tell, Fantasma. You could be right, and you could be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:09 PM

Bruce:

I don't understand what YOU are asking me. Could you word it more clearly without any capitals?

Thanks,


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:14 PM

Sorry, Amos,

You are basing your point on your feelings about Obama, but have chosen to ignore that someone who has known him for 20 years, been his spiritual mentor, and now is critical of him. I am overjoyed that you know Barack on a personal level so much better than his own minister does.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:03 PM

So you think Wright may have rational reasons for his melodramtic performance, but deny that Obama might have rational reasons for his reasoned performance?

Oy, such tsuris!!

As for your sarcasm, I do not know him personally but I have an informed basis for extrapolating from what I do know and comparing it to what I see.

For example, I predicted from the first W election that he would make a mess of things.

See?


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:39 PM

Amos,

So you think Obama may have rational reasons for his melodramtic performance, but deny that Wright might have rational reasons for his reasoned performance?


That is what I mean- you have chosen to believe Obama, and NOT to consider IF Wright is right.

Just as you chose to believe the editorials against Bush, and never consider if Bush might have some reason for his decisions.

When you base your judgement on what you want to be true, you are not being honest with yourself, much less with others.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:55 PM

Dammit, Bruce, you cannot describe Wright's histrionics as reasoned, as a performance, nor Barack's as melodramtic; you're just slipping definitions around without regard to their inherited meanings. THis is silly rhetorical gaming; cut it out. Otherwise we have no grouonds for communicating.

Of course I prefer whom I prefer. Is that the point you are trying to make with this nonsense?

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 12 May 08 - 07:05 PM

JUSTICE -- JUDGE ALLOWS KBR RAPE CASE TO GO TO TRIAL: Last December, Jamie Leigh Jones, a former employee of Iraq contracting company KBR, revealed that she was gang-raped by coworkers while working in Iraq and then silenced by the company in a shipping container. KBR said that Jones's contract allowed only for a private arbitration, "without public record or transcript," rather than a criminal trial. On Friday, however, a federal judge ruled that Jones can take her claims to trial. "The decision has opened the door for other American women who have reported sexual assaults in similar circumstances to challenge clauses in their employment contracts restricting such claims to private arbitration and keeping them out of court," the Times of London notes. "This court does not believe that plaintiff's bedroom should be considered the workplace, even though her housing was provided by her employer," Judge Keith Ellison wrote, arguing that KBR's arbitration-only clause does not apply. However, the judge also ruled that "a sexual harassment claim that Jones included in her case against her supervisor in Texas would have to be decided in arbitration." Since Jones told her story, at least a dozen other KBR employees have contacted her to say they suffered similar assaults.

TORTURE -- SANDS: BUSH'S TORTURE ARCHITECTS ARE 'WEASELING OUT' OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR CRIMES: During an interview with PBS's Bill Moyers last Friday, Philippe Sands, renowned international lawyer and professor at University College London, said that in interviews with key Bush administration officials for his new book, Torture Team, he found that architects of the administration's torture program such as former Pentagon official Douglas Feith are refusing to recognize their involvement in the program. In essence, they may have been "complicit in the commission of a crime," Sands noted. "There was not a hint of recognition that anything had gone wrong, nor a hint of recognition of individual responsibility." In a recent House hearing, Sands said that based on Britain's experience with the IRA, "coercion doesn't work." Sands said the use of torture against the IRA "extended the conflict" by 15 to 20 years, adding that "one of the great regrets that I have is that the [Bush] administration never seemed to turn for advice to its closest allies and asked them 'what was your experience when you faced a similar situation?'" Sands also rejected the term "war on terror," which he said "transform[s] criminals into warriors." He said by using such language, "[Y]ou create a context in which they are able to recruit in their struggle."

RADICAL RIGHT -- RIGHT WING DOCTORS AUDIO CLIPS TO DISTORT GORE'S COMMENTS ABOUT MYANMAR CYCLONE: Last week, the Business & Media Institute (BMI), a right-wing front group founded by Brent Bozell, spliced and doctored an NPR interview of Al Gore in order to allege that Gore said something that he did not. The organization published a false headline claiming Gore called the recent Myanmar cyclone a "consequence" of global warming. But in the NPR interview, Gore asserted that melting polar ice caps (which are unequivocally due to global warming) -- not cyclones -- were a "consequence" of global warming. BMI inverted Gore's comments to make it seem like his remarks about the cyclones followed from his remarks about "the consequences of global warming." Last week, Fox News promoted the doctored clip to make the same false allegations about what Gore actually said. Host Steve Doocy had Dr. William Gray, who has claimed that manmade global warming is Òa big scam," on to discuss the issue. CNN's Glenn Beck pushed the false story on his show on May 7.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 May 08 - 04:28 PM

I heard on the radio that in Italy a Fascist party is actually re-forming.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 13 May 08 - 09:39 PM

So is the Nazi party, Rig, but no need to take on protective coloration yet -- it's a local aberration so far....




A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:22 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/the-counterfeit-treaty_b_104831.html

The Huffington Post
June 3, 2008

The Counterfeit Treaty

Today in Geneva Switzerland, at an undisclosed location, the US
government, the European Commission, Japan and a handful of other
countries will meet in a secret negotiation on a new treaty.
The working name is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA), a
name that masks the much broader subject matter, and one that was
deliberately chosen to intimate and discourage politicians from
expressing opposition to provisions that undermine civil rights and
privacy, and which many say will change the substantive rights the
public has to use copyrighted works or inventions. What member of
Congress or Parliament wants to be accused of protecting counterfeiters?

The US, EU and other governments involved in this project have not
released details of the substantive provisions under discussion. Press
reports in Canada in Europe have focused on provisions that would
involve searches of computers, cell phones or iPods for infringing
software or music files. Others have discussed changes in international
law regarding injunctions for alleged infringements of intellectual
property rights, expanded ex officio powers for governments, tougher
sanctions, special programs to train judges or law enforcement
officials, and other measures, most of which is speculation based upon
some of the "asks" by lobbyists from the computer game, software, music,
film, pharmaceutical and fashion industries. (See here, here, and here.)

There is a huge rush to conclude this agreement before Bush leaves
office. So far, no Democratic member of Congress has expressed much
interest in the details of the agreement, or asked probing questions
about why such a potentially far reaching treaty is being rushed through
under a cloud of secrecy, described by some as cloak and dagger.

This "patriot act" for intellectual property "crimes" may be one of the
late legacies of the Bush Administration. It would be nice to have more
transparency about such a far reaching and important global trade
agreement. Particularly since the current negotiation strategy seems to
be to present the Congress with a fully negotiated text for an up or
down vote, before there has been any debate of the actual provisions of
the agreement, or consideration of alternative approaches, including
those that have few negative impacts on privacy, due process or consumer
rights.

There are undoubtedly reasons for such tight secrecy and the use of
thought-stopping terms like "anti-counterfeiting" to name this
agreement. But they are undoubtedly the wrong reasons for the public.
They are signals that the treaty would face opposition if more was known
and understood about its substantive provisions.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:28 PM

Amazing revelations have emerged concerning already existing government plans to overhaul the way the internet functions in order to apply much greater restrictions and control over the web.

Lawrence Lessig, a respected Law Professor from Stanford University told an audience at this years FortuneÕs Brainstorm Tech conference in Half Moon Bay, California, that "ThereÕs going to be an i-9/11 event" which will act as a catalyst for a radical reworking of the law pertaining to the internet.

Lessig also revealed that he had learned, during a dinner with former government Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke, that there is already in existence a cyber equivalent of the Patriot Act, an "i-Patriot Act" if you will, and that the Justice Department is waiting for a cyber terrorism event in order to implement its provisions.

During a group panel segment titled "2018: Life on the Net", Lessig stated:

ThereÕs going to be an i-9/11 event. Which doesn't necessarily mean an Al Qaeda attack, it means an event where the instability or the insecurity of the internet becomes manifest during a malicious event which then inspires the government into a response. You've got to remember that after 9/11 the government drew up the Patriot Act within 20 days and it was passed.

The Patriot Act is huge and I remember someone asking a Justice Department official how did they write such a large statute so quickly, and of course the answer was that it has been sitting in the drawers of the Justice Department for the last 20 years waiting for the event where they would pull it out.

Of course, the Patriot Act is filled with all sorts of insanity about changing the way civil rights are protected, or not protected in this instance. So I was having dinner with Richard Clarke and I asked him if there is an equivalent, is there an i-Patriot Act just sitting waiting for some substantial event as an excuse to radically change the way the internet works. He said "of course there is".

Watch Lessig reveal the details at 4.30 into this video:

Lessig is the founder of Stanford Law School's Center for Internet and Society. He is founding board member of Creative Commons and is a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and of the Software Freedom Law Center. He is best known as a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright, trademark and radio frequency spectrum, particularly in technology applications.

(From Infowars -- http://www.infowars.net/articles/august2008/050808i911.htm)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:39 PM

Maybe this new 9/11 type event will be our "October surprise" for this election. These people are so predictable.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:51 PM

> This raises a few questions. Is the new passport system
> reliable? What does it say about border security when a
> birth certificate trumps a passport? Will my passport (the
> expensive little booklet) allow me to travel in the future?



New microchipped passports designed to be foolproof against identity theft can be cloned and manipulated in minutes and accepted as genuine by the computer software recommended for use at international airports.

Tests for The Times exposed security flaws in the microchips introduced to protect against terrorism and organised crime. The flaws also undermine claims that 3,000 blank passports stolen last week were worthless because they could not be forged.

In the tests, a computer researcher cloned the chips on two British passports and implanted digital images of Osama bin Laden and a suicide bomber. The altered chips were then passed as genuine by passport reader software used by the UN agency that sets standards for e-passports.

The Home Office has always argued that faked chips would be spotted at border checkpoints because they would not match key codes when checked against an international data-base. But only ten of the forty-five countries with e-passports have signed up to the Public Key Directory (PKD) code system, and only five are using it. Britain is a member but will not use the directory before next year. Even then, the system will be fully secure only if every e-passport country has joined.
...

(from an e-list discussion)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 09:03 PM

Subject: Home science under attack


" I grew up with a chemistry set. You could get them in every corner hobby store. But as liability fears grew, the experimental ethic that built the US as a science and technology powerhouse faded, and such "dangerous" toys became much harder to find.

So when my Make magazine team decided to publish Robert Bruce Thompson's Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments, I applauded. The book has been a great success.

But then this news came in from the author of that book: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/08/home_science_under_attack.html

The Worcester Telegram & Gazette reports that Victor Deeb, a retired chemist who lives in Marlboro, has finally been allowed to return to his Fremont Street home, after Massachusetts authorities spent three days ransacking his basement lab and making off with its contents.

Deeb is not accused of making methamphetamine or other illegal drugs. He's not accused of aiding terrorists, synthesizing explosives, nor even of making illegal fireworks. Deeb fell afoul of the Massachusetts authorities for ... doing experiments.

Authorities concede that the chemicals found in Deeb's basement lab were no more hazardous than typical household cleaning products. Despite that, authorities confiscated "all potentially hazardous chemicals" (which is to say the chemicals in Deeb's lab) from his home, and called in a hazardous waste cleanup company to test the chemicals and clean up the lab.

Pamela Wilderman, the code enforcement officer for Marlboro, stated, "I think Mr. Deeb has crossed a line somewhere. This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation."

Allow me to translate Ms. Wilderman's words into plain English: "Mr. Deeb hasn't actually violated any law or regulation that I can find, but I don't like what he's doing because I'm ignorant and irrationally afraid of chemicals, so I'll abuse my power to steal his property and shut him down."

In effect, the Massachusetts authorities have invaded Deeb's lab, apparently without a warrant, and stolen his property. "

(from an email list)

---

Whaddya think? Will robotics shops in the garage, or electronic kits in the living room be next?

Where ARE we going????

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 03:28 AM

'Authorities concede that the chemicals found in Deeb's basement lab were no more hazardous than typical household cleaning products. Despite that, authorities confiscated "all potentially hazardous chemicals" (which is to say the chemicals in Deeb's lab) from his home, and called in a hazardous waste cleanup company to test the chemicals and clean up the lab.

Pamela Wilderman, the code enforcement officer for Marlboro, stated, "I think Mr. Deeb has crossed a line somewhere. This is not what we would consider to be a customary home occupation."'



Quick, HIDE THE DRANO! The authorities are coming.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 08:23 AM

Is that a typo?

A grownup with a chemistry set? Shouldn't there be a "w" in his name?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 08 - 09:15 AM

Give average control freaks a 100 billion dollar homeland security agency combined with all sorts of Patriot Acts and let them go on the public...

this is what you get.

KGB is jealous of HLS funds and tactics.

Today crossing the street "with a camera" is enough to "CROSS THE LINE" from freedom to detainment or arrest.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM

Big Brother Is Listening
(Atlantic.com)


On the first Saturday in April of 2002, the temperature in Washington, D.C., had taken a dive. Tourists were bundled up against the cold, and the cherry trees along the Tidal Basin were fast losing their blossoms to the biting winds. But a few miles to the south, in the Dowden Terrace neighborhood of Alexandria, Virginia, the chilly weather was not deterring Royce C. Lamberth, a bald and burly Texan, from mowing his lawn. He stopped only when four cars filled with FBI agents suddenly pulled up in front of his house. The agents were there not to arrest him but to request an emergency court hearing to obtain seven top-secret warrants to eavesdrop on Americans.


As the presiding justice of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, known as the FISA court, Lamberth had become accustomed to holding the secret hearings in his living room. "My wife, Janis … has to go upstairs because she doesn't have a top-secret clearance," he noted in a speech to a group of Texas lawyers. "My beloved cocker spaniel, Taffy, however, remains at my side on the assumption that the surveillance targets cannot make her talk. The FBI knows Taffy well. They frequently play with her while I read some of those voluminous tomes at home." FBI agents will even knock on the judge's door in the middle of the night. "On the night of the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa, I started the first emergency hearings in my living room at 3:00 a.m.," recalled Lamberth. "From the outset, the FBI suspected bin Laden, and the surveillances I approved that night and in the ensuing days and weeks all ended up being critical evidence at the trial in New York.

"The FISA court is probably the least-known court in Washington," added Lamberth, who stepped down from it in 2002, at the end of his seven-year term, "but it has become one of the most important." Conceived in the aftermath of Watergate, the FISA court traces its origins to the mid-1970s, when the Senate's Church Committee investigated the intelligence community and the Nixon White House. The panel, chaired by Idaho Democrat Frank Church, exposed a long pattern of abuse, and its work led to bipartisan legislation aimed at preventing a president from unilaterally directing the National Security Agency or the FBI to spy on American citizens. This legislation, the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, established the FISA court—made up of eleven judges handpicked by the chief justice of the United States—as a secret part of the federal judiciary. The court's job is to decide whether to grant warrants requested by the NSA or the FBI to monitor communications of American citizens and legal residents. The law allows the government up to three days after it starts eavesdropping to ask for a warrant; every violation of FISA carries a penalty of up to five years in prison. Between May 18, 1979, when the court opened for business, until the end of 2004, it granted 18,742 NSA and FBI applications; it turned down only four outright.

Such facts worry Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who worked for the NSA as an intern while in law school in the 1980s. The FISA "courtroom," hidden away on the top floor of the Justice Department building (because even its location is supposed to be secret), is actually a heavily protected, windowless, bug-proof installation known as a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF. "When I first went into the FISA court as a lowly intern at the NSA, frankly, it started a lifetime of opposition for me to that court," Turley recently told a group of House Democrats looking into the NSA's domestic spying. "I was shocked with what I saw. I was convinced that the judge in that SCIF would have signed anything that we put in front of him. And I wasn't entirely sure that he had actually read what we put in front of him. But I remember going back to my supervisor at NSA and saying, 'That place scares the daylights out of me.'"

Lamberth bristles at any suggestion that his court routinely did the administration's bidding. "Those who know me know the chief justice did not put me on this court because I would be a rubber stamp for whatever the executive branch was wanting to do," he said in his speech. "I ask questions. I get into the nitty-gritty. I know exactly what is going to be done and why. And my questions are answered, in every case, before I approve an application."

It is true that the court has been getting tougher. From 1979 through 2000, it modified only two out of 13,087 warrant requests. But from the start of the Bush administration, in 2001, the number of modifications increased to 179 out of 5,645 requests. Most of those—173—involved what the court terms "substantive modifications."

This friction—and especially the requirement that the government show "probable cause" that the American whose communications they are seeking to target is connected in some way to a terrorist group—induced the administration to begin circumventing the court.

Concerned about preventing future 9/11-style attacks, President Bush secretly decided in the fall of 2001 that the NSA would no longer be bound by FISA. Although Judge Lamberth was informed of the president's decision, he was ordered to tell no one about it—not even his clerks or his fellow FISA-court judges.

...Tapping into the fiber-optic network that carries the nation's Internet communications is even easier, as much of the information transits through just a few "switches" (similar to the satellite downlinks). Among the busiest are MAE East (Metropolitan Area Ethernet), in Vienna, Virginia, and MAE West, in San Jose, California, both owned by Verizon. By accessing the switch, the NSA can see who's e-mailing with whom over the Internet cables and can copy entire messages. Last September, the Federal Communications Commission further opened the door for the agency. The 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act required telephone companies to rewire their networks to provide the government with secret access. The FCC has now extended the act to cover "any type of broadband Internet access service" and the new Internet phone services—and ordered company officials never to discuss any aspect of the program.

...Church, the Idaho Democrat who led the first probe into the National Security Agency, warned in 1975 that the agency's capabilities

could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such [is] the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it is done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capacity of this technology.

It was those fears that caused Congress to enact the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act three years later. "I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge," Senator Church said. "I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that [the National Security Agency] and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."

...
(See link above for full details)

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:58 PM

That bridge was crossed a long time ago.   The fear is already woven into the brain and the bones, stifling independent thought even before it has a chance to be born.


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:36 PM

Government Preparing Plan to Seize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Officials Say

Senior officials from the Bush administration and the Federal
Reserve informed top executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac, the mortgage-finance giants, that the government is
preparing a plan to seize the two companies and place them in
a conservatorship, officials and company executives briefed
on the discussions said.

(NYT)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

ept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will use his authority to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, likely placing the beleaguered mortgage-finance companies under government control as early as this weekend.

The Treasury plans to put Fannie and Freddie into a so- called conservatorship and pump capital into the companies, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said in an interview after being briefed by Paulson. The government would make periodic injections of funds by buying convertible preferred shares or warrants in the companies as needed, avoiding large up- front taxpayer costs, according to a person briefed on the plan.

``This is no bailout, particularly for the shareholders,'' Frank said. The federal government ``will be senior to all shareholders, preferred and common.''

Paulson gathered with Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart, Fannie Mae Chief Executive Officer Daniel Mudd and Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron this weekend on a plan to take control of the government-sponsored enterprises, which have operated as private shareholder-owned corporations for almost 40 years. Paulson is seeking to halt the crisis of confidence in Fannie and Freddie following $14.9 billion in losses in the past year that boosted their borrowing costs and hampered the mortgage market.

Paulson was prompted to step in after Morgan Stanley, which had been hired to analyze the companies' financials, concluded that Freddie, and to a lesser extent Fannie, relied on accounting maneuvers to meet their capital requirements, according to people with knowledge of the findings. The accounting overstated the value of their actual reserves, the people said.

---

This may not, of itself, be a sign of creeping fascism, except tha it puts the Treasury Dept more closely abed with the mortgage industry.


A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:53 PM

A steamy invective against the bail-out bill and its powers:

n 2000, the long fought for and long admired democracy of the United States of America began a slow and steady decline toward fascism - a Bush family tradition - with the installment of a president - a man the citizens overwhelmingly rejected (although the funny math told a still believed myth) - by a few corrupt judges on the US Supreme Court. That coup is now nearly complete and checkmate is all but unavoidable.

Let me first point you to the Bush administration's so-called Wall Street bailout bill, here, so that you can see for yourself that this treachery is being conducted in the light of day. Fascism is finally and formally out of the right-wing closet even if the F word is not yet openly being used (although it should be, and often).

Now, if you do not yet understand that the Wall Street crisis is a man-made disaster done through intentional deregulation and corruption, I have a bridge in Alaska to sell to you (or Sara Palin does anyway). This manufactured crisis is now to be remedied, if the fiscal fascists get their way, with the total transfer of Congressional powers (the few that still remain) to the Executive Branch and the total transfer of public funds into corporate (via government as intermediary) hands.

Adam Davidson of NPR blogs about the so-called bailout bill as follows:

I would guess that this has to be one of the biggest peacetime transfers of power from Congress to the Administration in history. (Anyone know?). Certainly one of the most concise.

The Treasury Secretary can buy broadly defined assets, on any terms he wants, he can hire anyone he wants to do it and can appoint private sector companies as financial deputies of the US government. And he can write whatever regulation he thinks are needed.

Most importantly, Davidson points to this passage in the bill:

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

The Bush family, in the form of Prescott Bush, has tried a more aggressive coup before in order to install fascism in this country. This treasonous plot was called "the Business Plot," because the high-level plotters - including Prescott Bush - were Wall Street men who openly supported fascism.

It seems this time around, the Bush family is trying the more subtle approach to open bloodshed: first create a crisis, then under the guise of addressing that crisis, overthrow democracy. Yes, it does sound terribly conspiracy-theory-esque when explained just this way. But what else does one call a criminal conspiracy to destroy Congressional powers permanently, alter Judicial powers permanently, and steal public funds?

As I see it now, we have but two options and I have long alluded to hoping against hope that one of these options would not be the only one left to a peaceful people. The first and frankly most preferable option is for Congress to immediately begin impeachment proceedings against the members of this latest Business Plot.

No time needs to be wasted on hearings as we already now have in writing, formally as presented to Congress, the intentions of this administration to nullify Congressional powers permanently, to alter Judicial powers permanently, and to openly steal public funds using as blackmail the total collapse of the US economy if these powers are not handed over. You do see how this is blackmail, do you not? You do see how this is a manufactured crisis precisely designed to be used as blackmail, do you not?

The other option, the one I have long prayed we would never need to even consider, is a total revolution. But, If Congress won't act in its own self-defense, in the defense of democracy, in defense of us - the people who have elected them to protect us from this very danger - then what is left for us to do? I don't want to see it come down to this, but I fear that it will. Put your party politics aside right now. We are in a crisis so dangerous that should these people succeed in their coup, your party affiliation will no longer matter, your American flag will be a nice collectible item of something that once was, and your version of God will be worshiped in secrecy because your freedoms will be owned by the few.

You are no longer Republicans, Democrats, or any shade of voter. You do not live in a swing state or a solid colored state. You are simply this: an American. That is the only side that matters. So call your members of Congress and demand, no, declare that unless they do their duty to the Constitution and to us, we will move to the streets - not because we want to, but because our founding fathers demanded this duty of each and every citizen in the face of such a domestic enemy. Demand - as is your right - that this bill be voted against and demand - as is your right - that the people plotting this treachery be held to account. We are either a nation of laws or we are no longer a democracy. Pick a side, because there won't be another time, another moment, another chance to be a patriot.



http://www.atlargely.com/

Larisa Alexandrovna; Managing Editor - RS, Investigative News Team Raw Story Media, Inc. http://www.rawstory.com [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

Hi DonT

Interesting ideas you have.


"1. Each constituency to elect a representative from a list of candidates who have a proven track record of public service to the LOCAL population. Reasonable campaign funds from the public purse, the same amount for each candidate."

This would be a multi-party representation such in other countries.

"2. The representative elect to swear an oath of allegiance to HIS/HER CONSTITUENTS, and publically repudiate all affiliations to any party or corporate organisation or group."

Good idea. Who would be the constituents however? How would they be defined? What about "bundling"?

"3. The representative to be subject to an absolute committment to account for his actions to a jury of constituents, if and when there is evidence that he/she has broken any condition of rule 2, and if proven, be subject to instant dismissal and replacement."

Again, who are the "constituents"? How would you protect against corporate influence
on these constituents? In the US, they are bought out.

"4. The representatives to elect one of their number president (PM in the case of the UK) solely to chair the meetings of the government."

this sounds democratic. Like what we have now.

"5. All national policy decisions, especially use of military force to be made by majority vote of the representatives."

This isn't too much difference in what the Senate and House here in the US purport to do.

"6. An undertaking, on pain of criminal prosecution, not to accept, within a ten year period of leaving office, employment in any corporation which held government contracts during the period of tenure as a representative."

This really should be enforced against lobyists in the US.

"7. A decent severance package to be standard on completion of the term of office, if not re-elected, tho' I think the good ones would be re-elected for sure. "

"Decent" is vague. Plug in the numbers. Or a ratio or percentage.


"IMHO, the needs and requirements of citizens are pretty much the same in almost all constituencies,"

Not sure about this. Needs and requirements vary. Class distinctions in wealth distribution makes this apparent.



"and if they are paramount in the thinking of men who do not want to find themselves suddenly on the dole, the chances of corruption are at least considerably reduced."

Money is the culprit. We have to get it out of politics so elections can't be bought and sold.

All in all, sounds like a plan (needs modifications)

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM

"Treasury Seeks Asset-Buying Power Unchecked by Courts (Update2)

By Alison Fitzgerald and John Brinsley

Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The Bush administration sought unchecked power from Congress to buy $700 billion in bad mortgage investments from financial companies in what would be an unprecedented government intrusion into the markets.

Through his plan, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson aims to avert a credit freeze that would bring the financial system and the world's largest economy to a standstill. The bill would prevent courts from reviewing actions taken under its authority.

a) Clearly, W dislikes courts.
b) What was that definition of fascism again?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 07:29 AM

Constitutional oversight of national money is being sold away,

Bloomberg:

"Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Democrats are questioning the legality of an important provision in the Bush administration's financial rescue plan: a proposal to bar judicial scrutiny of the U.S. Treasury Department's acquisition of up to $700 billion in troubled assets.

``I think that may be illegal, not to be able to challenge things,'' Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, told reporters. ``I'm not sure that would hold up anyway.''

Judicial bypass provisions are common in statutes and in some cases have been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. Congress, nonetheless, may choose to revise the administration plan to permit some independent review. So far, the issue has been overshadowed by Democratic demands to broaden the rescue plan to include a stimulus package for the economy and help for homeowners having difficulty paying their mortgages.

The proposed rescue echoes some of the most momentous presidential actions in U.S. history, including President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal and President Harry S Truman's seizure of the nation's steel mills.

The Bush plan bars review by administrative agencies, as well as the judiciary, giving the Treasury secretary the final word on transactions.

Democratic Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, would change that provision by giving oversight authority to the U.S. Comptroller General and the Government Accountability Office, Congress's financial watchdog.

Delegation of Power

Frank's proposal would address concerns that the Bush plan would be an unconstitutional delegation of congressional spending power, said Walker Todd, a former Cleveland Federal Reserve attorney who is now a research fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, Massachusetts.

``The number one thing in play here is the constitutional principle that no money shall be withdrawn from the Treasury except pursuant to appropriations by law,'' Todd said."

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 05:22 PM

Bush's latest power grab is a direct step toward dictatorial power and fascism.

A

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

Fascism always looks more attractive when the economy crashes.

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:34 PM

And all I did was tell people and show them pictures of what they were allowing to happen for the last 8 years. I am sorry.

If you were the adminstration and faced the choice of continuing the takeover of the United Sates r going to prison, what would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: More GWB and the Rise of Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:30 PM

A discussion of the possibility of Martial Law being declared and its implications, including secession.

Welcome to the way-back machine, compliments of the Rove Enclave.


A