BS: Muhammad Ali

Subject: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:34 PM

Can you believe that Muhammad Ali is 65 years old today?
Where the hell do the years go?

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: number 6
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:39 PM

I thought he was older.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:57 PM

Just a kid. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: number 6
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:59 PM

I was a kid when he was out there making a name for himself in the world.

Now that I'm about to turn 56, hell he is almost the same age as me ... we're just 2 kids.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:10 PM

I remember when he was young and purty.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:13 PM

It is hard to think of a sports figure who had more worldwide impact than Muhammed Ali.   A rare man. As I look at the frail man he is today I can't help but feel great sadness and yet he still continues to inspire. I know many who don't feel as I do and I don't argue because they never will see him in the same way that I do.

As a boxer, at his peak......well at his peak he wasn't allowed to fight...........but let's say at his near-peak, his skills were second to no one before or since. He had great ring sense and was never afraid to change his plan to suit the need. But being a boxer was the least of it.......

It is hard to find words to describe my feelings toward Ali. I guess I'm just glad we walked this earth at the same time.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 11:18 PM

Me, too, Spaw. And, I, too, thought he was older. I have so much respect for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:43 AM

Still true today. There are so many Alliances that the greats never seem to meet. What sets them above the rest though is the ability to think on their feet. Ali was the master of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:52 AM

I'm not one to be star-struck, but the one time I met him I was lost for words. Even with the Parkinson's he had a grace, dignity and extraordinary presence about him that, for me, put him up there with Nelson Mandela. A truly magnificent man.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:41 AM

A man who would have been celebrated no matter what he did, he has that unique combination of charisma, honesty, and intelligence.
I admire the man, and I speak as someone who loathes boxing!
Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: fat B****rd
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:49 AM

I'm in total accord with all of the above. When I first saw him (on television) in the early 60s I hated his public arrogance. There was,however, no denying his amazing abilities and years later when he came out and said that he based his displays on the wrestler Gorgeous George (i.e. antagonising the public to make them come back) I realized how great he was.

Subject: Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr.
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:53 AM

I still remember how lucky he was to survive against Henry Cooper. Henry was one of the few who was able to hit him real hard. Unfortunately his skin wasn't strong enough to withstand Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr.

I happen to feel that Henry Cooper was a smashing bloke and in my mind is and still is a nicer person than Cassius.

Having said all of that, Cassius was the greatest boxer ever, but a big mouth who used to irrtitate me immensely. As a person I never liked him. As a boxer, sheer class and a wonder to behold.

It is very sad to see him as a shadow of his former self. Wouldn't wish that upon anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 05:12 AM

I heard Cooper interviewed on the BBC, and he admitted he had been a bit put out by Ali's grandstanding and boasting - until, that is, Ali quietly mentioned to him that it guaranteed that they'd sell twice as many tickets and they'd be splitting a much bigger purse. After that he had absolutely no problems with Ali's spiel!
Cooper also said that they are still regularly in touch and that, despite Ali's motor problems and speech slurring, his mind is still remarkably sharp.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 05:22 AM

I remember talking to Henry some 10 years back when he was at my golf club doing one of those charity golf days with Kenny Lynch.
He was so humble and nice and a smashing person to talk to.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:50 AM

So, how do we measure greatness? I agree that he was ONE of the greatest, but THE greatest? Consider this:

Joe Louis held the title for 12 years.
John L. Sullivan held it for 10 years with his bare fists. He went 75 rounds with a man named Jake Killrain.

Rock Marciano was never defeated as a pro.

Archie Moore had more knock outs than any boxer in history, and that title stands today.

Ali had a habit that always infuriated me. He would lather his opponent as he came in, then he would hold him behind his neck so the guy couldn't get any leverage on the inside. I still don't know why so many referees let him get away with that.

On the other hand, he had all the skills needed to be a great boxer, and in his prime, on a good night, he could have licked just about anyone. Mike Tyson may have been able to hurt him, but who knows? George Forman couldn't do it, and he had one of the hardest punches in history.
He was a big mouth, and I chuckled when Chuck Wepner (the Bayonne bleeder) knocked him on his ass.

So, how do YOU rate greatness? and why?

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: 3refs
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:21 AM

Happy Birthday(belated) to "The Greatest Of All Time"!

Not all liked Ali, and many disagree with the above statement for a multitude of reasons. Personally, I think he was the greatest period. He is probably the most recognized person that has ever lived. We'll have to toss a coin between him and Elvis.

"Like my man, Elvis Presley - I was the Elvis of boxing.''

"Elvis was my close personal friend. He came to my Deer Lake training camp about two years before he died. He told us he didn't want nobody to bother us. He wanted peace and quiet and I gave him a cabin in my camp and nobody even knew it. When the cameras started watching me train, he was up on the hill sleeping in the cabin. Elvis had a robe made for me. I don't admire nobody, but Elvis Presley was the sweetest, most humble and nicest man you'd want to know." - Muhammad Ali

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:29 AM

Just before I moved from South Bend, Indiana he came down from Michigan, quietly and without fuss, and talked to the kids in the rough stide of town. Not in a hall, outside on the street, sitting on a bench at a bus stop. By the time the newspaper and TV stations finally got there he was gone, leaving only a bunch of wowed kids (and a few parents) behind.

I understand he does things like that fairly regularily. It's called "class."

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Ali's greatness? Hard to be objective. At his best/near best, a superb athlete, with marvellous movement and timing. Ditto to everything Kendall says, although of those I have seen, a few stick in the mind:
Sugar Ray Leonard - surely second to none for timing, movement and skill. Not fair to compare him to Ali though, because he fought at a lower weight.
Of the heavyweights, it is easy to forget what a marvellous champion Larry Holmes was in his prime. He never ducked a legitimate challenge and he held the title for over nine years. No one else has done that in my lifetime. He ultimately came unstuck on the same flaw as Ali. He was as good as he thought he was, but not for as long as he thought he was.
Lennox Lewis defeated every man, who ever entered the ring with him. Both of his defeats were down to being under prepared. He absolutely flattened both McCall and Rahman in the rematches. He had the boxing skills, athleticism and he grew in power as a puncher as his career progressed.
"The Greatest"? It's impossible to judge. Still, he (Ali) is certainly the greatest to many people and I can see why.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 10:59 AM

One attribute of Ali's that hasn't been mentioned is his sense of humour a quick wit ... that along with his other traits as honour, justice and humanity makes in the remarkable human being that he is ... to me he will never grow old.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Greg B
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM

There was a great piece on NPR yesterday, a reminiscence by the
author of 'The Tao of Muhammed Ali,' who as a young man actually
got in the ring with him once. I'm sure it's available on their
web site. (www.npr.org) Well worth a listen.

Heck, I remember when he was 'Cassius Clay' and when Howard
Cosell refused to use his new name. Then later on the two became
terrific friends, though they continued to play at being at
odds.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: vectis
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:54 PM

He was magnificient in the ring and, for me, the greatest. He would have fought and won many more fights if he hadn't been locked up over Vietnam.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:54 PM

I still only call him Cassius Clay

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:15 PM

I had the pleasure of meeting him in person when he was in training for the Oscar Bonavena fight. That was the first fight of his comeback after he was stripped of the title for refusing to be inducted into the armed forces. It was November of 1970. I remember it well because Fay and I were on our honeymoon in Miami Beach. Because Ali was a Muslim he required kosher food. He was training and staying at the same kosher hotel, ( The Seagull at 21st St. & Collins Ave.) that we were. It was not publicized at all that he was there. He got up very early in the morning to do his road work and would come into the lobby just when I was coming down from my room to go to morning prayer services. We would talk for a while every morning until the services began. He was a very warm, friendly, and down to earth person; not at all like his public image which was just an act to boost ticket sales. He took a liking to me because I sympathized with his anti-war philosophy and called him by his proper Muslim name. I compared him to The Weavers who were blacklisted during the Joe McCarthy era and he could relate to that very well.

                                              SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 04:25 PM

Somehow you could always tell that beneath that exterior persona there resided (and still does) a decent and honourable human being - a man for whom I have always had great admiration and respect - the greatest boxer and a great actor.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:16 PM

Joe Louis was also universally loved, and he didn't piss people off.

Subject: RE: BS: Muhammad Ali
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 18 Jan 07 - 07:24 PM

Ali never pissed me off.