Importance of Melody in Song

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Alec
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:56 AM

Speaking of "hearing" an as yet unwritten melody alanabit, McCartney literally dreamt up "Yesterday" waking one morning with the melody going through his head.A very cogent analysis of what may have been an unconscious scource of inspiration for this has been published at
http://www.Geocities.com/hammodotcom/beathoven/index.htm.
If anybody who is less blue_clicky challenged than I would like to do something with that I'd be grateful.
B.T.W. even if you dislike The Beatles, anyone who is interested in creaivity in music composition will probably like that site.

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:54 AM

It's always interesting to me to hear how different songwriters approach the task (if you can call it that). I guess it is a task if, say you are under contract to produce songs for an album, or a radio show or something, and have a deadline. But alanabit's songs seem to almost "write themselves" - I've heard other songwriters use that expression.

That must be a great gift to have - I just wish it would happen to me like that.

I wonder if there's any evidence that songs that appear almost spontaneously like that, are any better than those that the writer has had to toil over - or vice versa?

Paul McCartney is quoted above as a good melodist (if I can use that term). One of his most successful songs "Yesterday" apparently came to him in a dream, and he wrote nonsense lyrics to it at first ("Scrambled Eggs" was the working title ISTR). That seems to support the 'spontaneity' argument. Over the years, especially since the end of the Beatles, he has been responsible for a lot of dross - I wonder how much of that was 'spontaneous'?

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:39 AM

I have had a bash at this songwriting lark. I have no formal training in composition. I believe the same was true of Paul MacCartney and several of the classic show song and jazz songwriters.
Speaking only for myself, I tend to find that my better efforts seem to have a life of their own. I usually "hear" them before I write them down, so the words and the melody usually come together. There is nothing particularly "creative" about it. If I can't hear a song, I can't write it down! If I can't sing the first line - or main line - of a song straight away, I am rarely interested in trying to make anything happen.
I think you get rotten melodies and lyrics from trying to force words and tunes together. To me it feels like an arranged marriage, whereas I am keener on love matches!
This is not intended as a shot at those who prefer to use melodies, which they already admire. Arguably, that is a more creative process, because it is bringing something into existence, which was not there already!

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:26 AM

What is "song" whithout "melody"?

Rap?

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:18 AM

Not only a great melody writer, but you're so modest too, Cap'n :-)

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:08 AM

:apologieshttp://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 05:06 AM

Paul Macartney and Stephen Foster,were great melody writers.Ithink I wrote a great melody for Sailortown.http;//www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:32 AM

Interesting thread. Of course a good melody is better than a poor one, but sometimes I find myself paying more attention to the tune than the lyrics, so maybe there's an argument that if you have lyrics that need to be heard, you should keep the tune simple, so your audience will pay full attention to the words. I don't know whether any songwriters do this consciously though, or whether it's just that they don't know how to write good tunes.

I agree there are too many songwriters that write 'nothing' melodies, or very derivative ones that leave you yawning inwardly. (But I'm not much of a songwriter myself, so maybe I shouldn't be so critical of others).

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:11 AM

I've always found tune/melody writing the hardest part of a song, plus I have the brain of a goldfish and very little composing ability so I'm one of the tune thieves mg hates so much! :) If I can't write the note progression down immediately, I will forget it. It appears that I can only write in the minor key and I've only ever written 2 tunes that I've remembered - one I composed on my mobile phone composer (and what a pig it is that my subsquent phones don't have this ability) and one on the piano during an enforced stay in the dining room. I have since discovered that the second of my compositions is a tune I heard several times about 15 years ago and I've managed to reverse a couple of lines. What the hell, I'm keeping it as mine because it goes to a song that someone I like very much wrote.

Anyhoo... it's the marmite argument all over again. Either you think melody is important or you don't. Those with an instrumental background will tend to listen to the music first, whereas those with a lyrical grounding will pay more attention to the words. The acid test is using the same words with different tunes - Mass settings and other religious choral pieces are good examples.

A good, memorable melody is vital if you want your song/tune broadcast to the world by whichever means. If you just want a showcase, one-off performance then it's not so important. As my experience with navel-gazing dirges has been limited of late, and I can't remember the tune of a single one, I would suggest that these were 'show/off' performances that only require the one airing to 'get it off his chest' as it were.

Mozart wrote music for the Church and so his mass settings are melodic, memorable and meant to be sung as part of a religious service. The congregation would know the words and so the melody was the important feature. Many of todays religious songs concentrate on evangelising and reassuring congregations from different liturgical backgrounds, so melody is quite often secondary to the lyric.

As for what is a melody? It's whatever progression of notes you hear in whatever context that makes you want to hear it again. Just as there is rhythmn in life (and the basement and the street), there is music in the wind, lyrics in the trees and melody in water.

LTS

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: mg
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 12:23 AM

Of course..how could it be music without a good tune. It can be poetry I guess but who would want to listen to it.

I vote for not recycling tunes unless absolutely inescapable. Each song deserves its own tune but sometimes they jump onto a tune. Of course an untrained musician can write a great tune. I don't know how training can make you come up with better melodies. I suspect that some people are so inately gifted they could with no input whatsoever, but I suspect that most very good tunes..the tuner was exposed to a certain type of music from infancy and absorbed it and was able to recreate somewhat similar tunes when the time was right.

Also, sometimes, not always, when you put words to a beautiful tune it wrecks the tune from that point on.

Please no more lyrics for Star of the County Down. mg

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Stewart
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:30 PM

Jack, I'm not restricting myself to slow airs, that's just what I was exploring that got me interested in song melodies in general. I also play some pretty fast jigs and reels, and appreciate that many of those tunes have been turned into some great songs also.

But it's not just Irish tunes. I'm interested how new contemporary songs are being written. Some may have great lyrics but pretty boring melodies. So is it important to have good melodies as well as lyrics? And what is the best way to go about composing the melodies if they are important? Or are they best borrowed from existing songs or tunes?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 08:34 PM

Yes, there are few tunes as boring as those that simply decorate some guitar chord progression, with no independent rhythmic or melodic logic.

BUT restricting yourself to slow airs, Irish or otherwise, is nuts. There are some ideas that simply can't be expressed in slow tunes. Matt McGinn's output is a terrific lesson in how to pick the right tune - he took melodies from everywhere (or pastiched highly identifiable types of melody) to fit an enormous variety of songs. Often the tune was chosen simply because it was as incongruous as possible.

Subject: Importance of Melody in Song
From: Stewart
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 05:59 PM

Singer songwriters often get a bad rap because of their navel-centric lyrics. But when I listen to some of their songs, even those whose lyrics are imaginative and interesting, I am often underwhelmed by the melodies (or lack thereof). I'm afraid I would never recognize the song by its melody alone. The melody should enhance the character of the song, whether it be uplifting or sad or funny. A good song should at least leave me humming the tune.

I'm developing a workshop on "Irish Slow Airs in Songs" for Rainy Camp and possibly for NW Folklife Festival – slow airs derived from songs and the use of slow airs as melodies for songs. This has got me to think about song melodies. Here are a few questions I'd like to explore.

Are melodies important? What makes a good melody? Where do melodies come from? Can anyone write a melody, or does it take a trained musician? What is the value of recycling old melodies versus writing new melodies? Are there changing styles in melodies? How do you go about writing a tune?

Cheers, S. in Seattle