BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!

Subject: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:10 PM

From today's national news! Read it and weep, Dickey! LOL! Don't you wish we had politicians like this in North America?....

"MANAGUA, Nicaragua - Leftist Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, who took power earlier this month, said Monday that he was slashing his salary and those of Cabinet members.

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In a news conference, Ortega said he would earn a monthly salary of $3,200 while Cabinet members would earn no more than $3,000.

Former President Enrique Bolanos earned about $10,000 while some Cabinet members earned more than $5,000.

Several presidents across Latin America have cut their salaries recently in response to criticism they earn excessive amounts while millions of their citizens live in poverty.

President Felipe Calderon of Mexico cut his salary by 10 percent after taking power in December. His predecessor, Vicente Fox, made about $245,000 a year in 2006.

Ortega headed a Soviet allied government in the 1980s that fought a war against a U.S. backed insurgency. He now says he has moderated his views and wants to have good relations with Washington."

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: 282RA
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:30 PM

I've always liked Ortega. Remember when they caught that spy plane pilot--Eugene Hassenfuss or something--and the Nicaraguan govt could pretty much do with him as they pleased--they caught him spying. Ortega asked him if he had a family. Yessir. Ortega asked him if he'd like to go home and see them again and Hassenfuss with cracking voice said yessir I want very much to go home and see them again. So Ortega sent him home and the State Dept actually had the nerve to condemn Ortega's kindness and goodwill. Called it grandstanding or something stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:57 PM

They call it "grandstanding" when other people (whom they don't like, for political reasons) do what they would expect to be praised and congratulated for, for doing themselves. Sheer sour grapes on their part.

You see the same kind of mean-mindedness shown by Democrats toward Republicans, and vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM

Dear Birdfeathers,

It is quite reasonable to expect that China, Russia and the US would have the three largest standing armies in the world, and they do.

The country ranked as 'fourth largest' changes rather often.

For the period of, say, the last 30 years, can you name three countries who have fielded an army ranked as 'fourth largest'?

I can name four such countries without looking it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:15 AM

I will believe you when you move to Nicaragua.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:33 AM

The average per capita income in Nicaragua is less than $500 per year.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:00 AM

pdq - would you please explain the relevance of your remark? Military manpower is not the best way of comparing military expenditure, military efficiency or militarism. More relevant statistics are available here.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:44 AM

"The average per capita income in Nicaragua is less than $500 per year."

U.S average per capita household salary per month .... $3,615
U.S. Bush's salary per month ..........................$33,300

Nicaragua average per capita household salary per month .... $33.00
Ortega's average salary per month ...........................$3,320

I dunno ... not much difference between what Ortega get's in comparison to Bush.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 11:49 AM

Correction .... I think Ortega is getting a substantial, if not extravagant salary in comparison to the population of his country.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

LH keeps glorifying communisim but he says he does not want to live inder communisim. He prefers to live under democracy.

Make up your confliced, hypocrite mind. Peactice what you preach.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:26 PM

"They call it "grandstanding" when other people (whom they don't like, for political reasons) do what they would expect to be praised and congratulated for,"

I think Ortega's move is called "grandstanding" period. Especially when one's country is impoverished as Nicaragua is. But then again Ortega could be contributing a large amount of his salary to the poor .... yeah right .... it's probably being invested via the New York Stock Exchange.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:31 PM

May I refer you to this previous post of mine, Dickey? Your pointless point of today has already been fully answered in it:

"It doesn't have anything to do with where I want to move, Dickey. I have pointed out before that people in those 3rd world countries have NEVER had the rosy set of circumstances freely given to them that you and I were given at birth, merely by being born in the USA or Canada, in far more favorable ecomomic and social conditions. And they almost certainly NEVER will.

I have no reason to want to move anywhere. I'm happy to be in Canada. Canada is safe, prosperous, and free.

You have to assess each society's progress on the present and past conditions THERE, not here, and on what is possible THERE, not here. Cuba was far better off to be under Castro than if it had stayed under Batista. The Venezuelans who voted for Chavez (a majority of them) obviously think Venezuela is better off under him, and it is the poor who vote for Chavez. It is the wealthy and the middle class who don't like him. Most Venezuelans are poor. The Nicaraguans who voted Ortega back in obviously feel they are better off that way too. You weren't there. What do you know about it that they don't?

Give up this tired old BS about me wanting to "move" somewhere, because it's absolutely stupid. Just reread this post whenever you feel tempted to say it again.

You have got to get out of this cultural thought bubble you are trapped in where you imagine that everyone in the world has the same problems and opportunities and choices in front of them that you do. THEY DON'T! They are dealing with wholly different problems and choices, and they don't view America as their saviour, they view it as their exploiter, and as a rogue nation that attacks people. That isn't the fault of ordinary Americans, it's the fault of your government, which is simply a tool of a bunch of giant corporations and a military-industrial complex which doesn't care whose life it tramples on in order to make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$."




Sour grapes, guys? ;-) I'm still waiting for our politicians to voluntarily lower their own wages as a gesture of frugality. Remember, Ortega could have just kept drawing $10,000 a month like his predecessor, former President Enrique Bolanos. He didn't. He lowered his salary to $3,200 a month. That's a 68% reduction!

Match that. Explain to me how it proves he's a bad guy. Betcha can't.

Major case of sour grapes we have here. LOL! It's amazing how blind political (or any other kind of) prejudice works. It simply blocks out any piece of reality which does not fit its established prescription of hatred and denial.


Number 6 - So you feel that a voluntary 68% reduction in the man's salary is not enough? ;-) What would you recommend? Would you be prepared to match your own recommendation if put in the same position? I don't think I would. I don't think anyone I know would, matter of fact. I find it downright astounding that a politician would cut his wages by that amount.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

I can't say that I've ever heard of any politician, in any country or in any party that left office and lived on welfare (or the local equivalant) for the rest of his/her life.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:44 PM

Well, it would be difficult for him to do some necessary things like fly to other countries now and then for meetings and pay travel expenses at hotels, wouldn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:45 PM

Reducing my salary 68% would put me and my wife in the food bank line LH.

Your defensive statement just don't cut it. Ortega is just another politician in the world arena. I can't see any substantial humanitarian value in his 'little' salary reduction. Look at the figures I presented. They explain just where he stands in the economic scale of his impoverished country. They also reveal on were he (the socialist saviour) stands next to the leader of the most capitalistic countries in the world. In some ways it reveals somewhat how humble Bush ranks to Ortega in the salary game.

Hell ... If I were Bush I demand a hefty salary increase.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:50 PM

"Well, it would be difficult for him to do some necessary things like fly to other countries now and then for meetings and pay travel expenses at hotels, wouldn't it?"

Face reality LH .... those expenses wouldn't come out of his pocket.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:57 PM

Now wouldn't it be good to see world leaders competing to cut the amount of money they receive in salaries and perks.

A bit of grandstanding along those lines woidln't go amiss.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: pdq
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 12:59 PM

Oh, Liberal Hawk,

You dodged the question. Here it is in a simplified form:

                   Why did Nicaragua need the fourth largest army on the planet while Ortega was in charge? {it was 2.5 million in a country of less than 7 million}

While you are tooting Ortega's trumpet for him:
                   Please tell us how many millions of dollars stuck to Ortega's fingers out of the billions funneled to him for the military build-up. It came both directly from the Soviet Union and indirectly from Castro. {I promise not to ask how much stuck to Castro's fingers in the process.}

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:25 PM

How can you accuse Litle Hawk of dodging a question that you never actually posed, pdq?

That really does sound a pretty implausable statistic. Virtually the entire adult population of the country enrolled in the army? Pretty evidently in that context being "in the army" has to mean something other than it might normally mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 03:24 PM

Ortega needed a very large army at the time, pdq, because his country was being very aggressively attacked by well-funded and well-armed agents of the Reagan administration known as "Contras" in another dirty and illegal American bush war (for which the USA was found guilty of aggression by the World Court, by the way). That is no longer the case, fortunately, and Nicaragua no longer needs a huge army. Let's face it, when you're fighting the Roman Empire (reincarnated) you have to raise rather large forces to do it with any hope of survival. ;-)

I would assume that at present, among the next four countries with largest armed forces in the world after America, Russia, and China....North Korea would be one of them. Am I right? I think that Iraq was one of them at one point in the 80's, when Saddam was at his apogee. Other than that, I'm not quite sure who the other three would be or would have been. Where do Turkey, the UK, Iran, and Israel presently stand in the lineup? And are we talking simply the largest armed forces...or the largest armed forces per capita?

Number 6 - My point is simply this: Ortega voluntarily reduced his own salary dramatically as an altruistic gesture of principle. Such altruism is very rare and it is commendable, specially on the part of a political leader. If you think that the president of a third world country faces the same monthly expenses as an ordinary citizen of that country, I think you are mistaken. It is pretty typical of such countries that an average citizen earns something like $33/month or $50/month or something along those lines. You cannot be a politician in one of those countries and do what you have to do for $33/month, unless you are a revolutionary, like Panch Villa or Castro, hiding out in the mountains and launching raids on the rich haciendas to fund your army... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM

A. "I'm happy to be in Canada. Canada is safe, prosperous, and free."

B. "Don't you wish we had politicians like this in North America?...."

No I don't wish we politicians like this in North America.

Why would you wish we politicians like this in North America if statement A is true?

Why does a "safe, prosperous, and free." country need a Marxist politician? Please explain.

You seem to be able to judge what is best for other people but what is best for you is something cifferent.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:46 PM

Why is it, Dickey, that with you everything must be all-or-nothing?   Can you not separate a part of anything from the whole of that thing and rate that part on its own merits? Do you not recognize that there are some good things and some bad things in almost any system?

I never said I needed a Marxist politician in Canada. (we have had some, actually, but they get very few votes) I said that any politician (Marxist or otherwise) who voluntarily reduces his own salary because he thinks it's higher than what he needs is doing something remarkably idealistic, and I admire that. I don't give a damn whether or not he is Marxist. It doesn't matter in regards to his decision to cut his salary. His Marxism is not the point I'm commenting on here.

And as a matter of fact, yes! What is best for people in one situation is NOT necessarily best for people in another situation. It may be. It may not be. Different situations can require different approaches in order to find reasonable solutions to problems. What works in Rome may not work in Persia or Lebanon. That's why they say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:48 PM

Whew .... I'm glad we don't have politicians like that in Canada ... the government would have to increase our already high taxes a considerable amount just to pay for their exorbitant salaries!

"You cannot be a politician in one of those countries and do what you have to do for $33/month"
LH ... Never said he should .. but I did say the running of the government is not paid out of his salary ... it is an expense (taxes) paid for by the already poor citizens ... it sure was a drop down from $10k a month to 3K a month ... but he probably had to knowing the U.S. would make it public if he had kept that amount ... but let's face it, he would still live very lavishly if he had brought it down to $1.5K a month. But then again he does have to pay for the expensive scotch, seaside hacienda, Mercedes .... a new image he has to keep up to gain respect of the Americans.

A Mother Theresa he ain't LH.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:54 PM

So what does Bush need $33,300 a month for? Doesn't have to pay rent for the White House, and I'm sure all his meals are provided. Doesn't have to pay for his cars or his servants...

And that goes for all the others in similar positions.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 04:59 PM

Exactly McGrath ... so what is the big shmo about Ortega's salary ... as I said Ortega is just another leader of a country in the big global picture, grabbing what he can get for himself.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

My understanding of communism is that they don't have elections, at least not proper ones, because they only allow one political party. But didn't Senor Ortega just win an election? I think you can call him a communist if he bans the opposition parties, or refuses further elections. He didn't ban the one in 1990 when he lost. Until then, he's a democratic socialist, elected democratically by a majority of the voters. Or is that a bad thing too? Reducing your own salary to a more reasonable level sound like the sort of thing a socialist would do.

The Somorza regime was a totalitarian one (a military dictatorship) and one with a poor record of human rights. Now they didn't have elections, as far as I know. It took direct action to get rid of them, which might be a communist sort of thing to do, but what are your options, other than direct action? And it's difficult to put your policies into practice when you have to fight a war against rebels who are funded by the richest country in the world.

Might I be invited to move to Nicaragua? It would be nice to live somewhere where you can elect a socialist government. Greed is ruining this planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:29 PM

The Samozans were butchers. I'll never forget the image of that 10-year-old girl who had her hands cut off to punish her parents. When did Ortega's govt ever do that?

And of the two--the Sandinistas and the Samozans--which did the US back? Yes, the Samozans.

So sorry dick, pdq, 6 and the rest--I'll take Ortega any day. In your faces, muthafuckas!

ALL HAIL COMMUNISM AND DOWN WITH DEMOCRACY!!!!!

just kidding....or am I?;)

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 05:50 PM

There's never been a communist state - communism was at most an aspiration for some future time claimed, pretty insincerely, by parties running repressive societies that can more accurately be described as "state capitalist".

There's no necessary connection between any form of economic system and any form of government. There are some "capitalist" and "socialist" societies which are by and large democratic, and some which are fiercely repressive, and a lot which are somewhere in between. As Russia and China are demonstrating today, abandoning any pretence of socialism or aspirations towards future communism going capitalist in no way means abandoning totalitarianism.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM

"Sandinistas and the Samozans" ... not discussing the past here in this thread ... we're discussing Ortega's current capitalistic salary.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM

Some tasty Samosas

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:40 PM

>>"Sandinistas and the Samozans" ... not discussing the past here in this thread ... we're discussing Ortega's current capitalistic salary.<<

Sure we are, you were the one who started bringing up the communist shit in the first place (actually I''m too lazy to look but I'm going to pin it on you anyway just because I can) but when you're faced with evidence you can't argue with suddenly we're not talking about that. yes we were and you brought it up. And I just pwned you, baby! PWNED!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:45 PM

Yes, and it seems to me that it's a modest salary which no one would be justified in taking offense to in today's world.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:45 PM

"They also reveal on were he (the socialist saviour) stands next to the leader of the most capitalistic countries in the world. In some ways it reveals somewhat how humble Bush ranks to Ortega in the salary game."

There's the "communist shit" I posted ... nothing to do with the past or ""Sandinistas and the Samozans" ... it has to do with the current salary game.

Go find another thread to hijack.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

Bush's salary is also rather modest in comparison to what many corporate heads are making.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM

So you DID bring it up. You see, I'm good! Even when I'm only half paying attention, I'm good.

So, yes, you got pwned big time, son.

I have that effect on people so don't feel bad--feel terrible. :D

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:55 PM

Not feeling bad at all ... as I stated it relates to his current salary not the past.

Try again if you have nothing better to do ... but don't expect a reply as it's not worth my effort to prove myself to you.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:58 PM

Oh, quit being so all aloof. you just jealous. But that's okay. It's all good. anything that feeds my ego is all good.

Damn it's snowing!

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:12 PM

No it ain't!

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:25 PM

By the sounds of it might be for this guy.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 07:54 PM

Bush's salary is also rather modest in comparison to what many corporate heads are making.

True enough. But isn't "taking" the right word for that kind of thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:02 AM

LH: If you think Ortega is great then why would you object to living under his benign rule?

It's like those people that fight the windmills. They say we need them and we have to have them but they must be put somewhere else for someone else to deal with.

Your shades of gray is fuzzy logic.

"Don't you wish we had politicians like this in North America?" Hell no I don't wish it. By asking this question it makes me believe that you wish it. Do you wish it or not?

Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, July 23, 2006; Page
MANAGUA, Nicaragua -- Sixteen years after voters swept Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega from Nicaragua's presidency, the former Marxist icon appears to have his best chance yet for a comeback in elections scheduled for Nov. 5.

Is he a Marxist or not?

Average salary in the US in 2002 was $36,764. The POTUS makes $400,000.

You say Ortega SLASHED his pay to $38,400 and the average in Nicaragua is $430.

Do the math.

Yeah I am weeping for you little buddy. Do an Oswald, move to the workers paradise and see if you return with your tail tucked between your legs instead of perpendicular.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: heric
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:06 AM

I couldn't be more impressed if he sliced his own celery!

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 03:40 AM

Bush should be forced to pay back all he's earned for the job he's costed US, along with our present congress. Who, BTW, has seen themselves fit enough to consistently raise they wages & benifits over the years while double dipping & then have the nerve to refuse a cost of living increase up until recently only because it may have costed them their necks if they didn't.
Yes, I would like to see more of this in the US.

Please don't tell me to move if I don't like it either.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 04:47 AM

"Why did Nicaragua need the fourth largest army on the planet while Ortega was in charge? {it was 2.5 million in a country of less than 7 million)"

2.5 million in a country of less than 7 million?????????????

Attribution, please. I find this difficult to believe.

As far as I know, no country in the most extreme circumstances has had more than about 10% of the population in military service. I would be surprised to find that 2.5 million out of 7 million ever did any military service at all, and they would not have been all servng at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 05:48 AM

Dickey - it was good of you to highlight the word Marxist for us. Did it not occur to you to highlight the word 'former' as well? And voters can't sweep a 'Marxist' leader from power, because they don't have elections.

About this army size. You claim that 2.5 million were serving in the army. So who were they fighting? It would appear that there would be no Nicaraguan males of military age to form an army for the Contras. Time magazine said in 1990 that the Nicaraguan Army was 70,000 strong.

Personally, I find your tone abusive. If you can't post civilly, with accurate attributions, it's probably doing your argument no good at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: pdq
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

"Ortega ran for election again, in October 1996 and November 2001, but lost on both occasions to Arnoldo Aleman and Enrique Bolaños respectively. In these elections, a key issue was the allegation of corruption. In Ortega's last days as president, through a series of legislative acts known as "The Piñata", estates that had been seized by the Sandinista government (some valued at millions and even billions US$) became the private property of various FSLN officials, including Ortega himself.

As a good Marxist should, Ortega confiscated billions in land and other property from the wealthy and gave it to, (surprise, surprise) himself!!!

He don't need no steenkin' $38,000 per at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:34 PM

There is little,or no point in pasting in a quote without giving an indication where it comes from.

Still less in presenting highly questionable statistics without giving a source.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

Nobody got any dirt on Fidel then!!

Some months ago there were allegations made in the American press about Castro.
His reply was "If you can find one dollar in one bank account in my name, I'll resign today"....Viva Fidel!!
He's a man in every sense of the word and folk like Dickey are just as they sound....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:43 PM

I would not object to being under Ortega's rule, Dickey. If I were a Nicaraguan I would vote for him without a moment's hesitation. I happen to be a Canadian, I was born in Canada, I have my whole life and my work here, my friends and family here, and I have no particular reason to move to Nicaragua, Australia, Singapore, Denmark, Andorra, Chile, or any other distant place right now.... ;-)

You just don't get it that things are different in different places, and that what works in Podunk, Iowa does not work everywhere...do you?

And I bet you don't get it that not everyone in the world is panting to move to the USA either, do you? You don't live in paradise, Dickey, you live in a society that, like any other, has both good points and bad points.

Subject: RE: BS: Ortega slashes his OWN salary!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:49 PM

The wealthy you no doubt refer to would be the former dictator and Reagan puppet Samoza and his family and the assets he abandoned when he fled the country. I suppose those things like large estates and houses are a bit difficult to get into a 'plane. I suppose taking an ex-dictator's ill-gotten gains and turning manor houses into schools and estates into collective farms for peasants somehow offends you.

Of course, that starts one thinking about where Senor Samoza got the alleged billion dollar estates from?

Oh and while you're at it, answer the question about the two and a half million strong army.