BS: At the Job Centre

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 08:54 AM

Called at The JC this morning watched people come in after me get called before me, finally got called 20 minutes after my appointed time.

That used to p*** me off. They would b*ll*ck me if I was a minute late for my weekly 3rd degree interrogation, yet if I turned up on time I was always kept waiting. I assumed it was another way to humiliate us "dole scum", probably government approved.

One week other people kept coming in and being called up - eventually I thought they must have forgotten me (which they had). It used to p*** me off even more because I had to pay to park in the carpark outside, and if it went on too long I'd risk a parking ticket which would have taken about 1/3 of the princely sum they used to give me.

It still makes me fume just thinking about those b******d jobsworths.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: koprokephalos
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:15 PM

How come you run a car scrump if you're unemployed?

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Jobsworth
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM

I work in a Jobcentre. The bottom line is you're asked to come in once a fortnight, on time. This isn't the hardest thing in the world to ask for. If you're late it means people who turn up on time will be seen late as a consequence.

If you had a job interview, you would be expected to turn up on time, or you wouldn't get the job, so why should signing on be any different? I manage to get to work on time everyday, from a different town, and I don't even drive.

You will find Jobsworths in all occupations. I don't consider myself one, and am willing to bend rules in certain situations. I try to be friendly, informal, and sympathetic to people's situations. However if clients are rude to you, you are hardly likely to go the extra mile for them. Myself, and most of my colleagues, who include casual workers, have signed on ourselves in the past, so we know what it's like.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:47 AM

Good morning, Guest Jobsworth. In my post of Feb 10th I did say that I realized many people are far, far worse off than myself. No, it's not much to turn up once a fortnight at a certain time and I was brought up far better than to be rude to people working anywhere let alone the JC staff here (Newton Aycliffe).

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:47 AM

To Guest Jobsworth

When I was signing on I always arrived on time but never got my interview at the allotted time - the best was 15 minutes late, the worst 2 1/2 hours - so I wrote them a nice letter and got a response but not an apology!

To those wanting to give up and paying your own stamp - become self-employed, you pay about a quarter of what it costs if employed, or unemployed!

Ugh!

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 08:27 AM

It's a bit like the dentist really (in more ways than one!) - at one time I never got in at the right time even though I always arrived early for the appointment (and there have been times when I've waited up to an hour at least), but one of my sons arrived a bit late one day and they refused to see him because he was late. My mother was so incensed at the injustice of it all that the next time she went and had waited several minutes, with no sign of being seen, she told them she could not wait any longer, asked for a new appointment to be sent and walked out. She told me that it made her feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 09:14 AM

How come you run a car scrump if you're unemployed?

Sorry, I should have highlighted that first line as a quote from fB. I'm not unemployed now.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:16 AM

I work in a Jobcentre. The bottom line is you're asked to come in once a fortnight, on time. This isn't the hardest thing in the world to ask for. If you're late it means people who turn up on time will be seen late as a consequence.

If you had a job interview, you would be expected to turn up on time, or you wouldn't get the job, so why should signing on be any different? I manage to get to work on time everyday, from a different town, and I don't even drive.

You will find Jobsworths in all occupations. I don't consider myself one, and am willing to bend rules in certain situations. I try to be friendly, informal, and sympathetic to people's situations. However if clients are rude to you, you are hardly likely to go the extra mile for them. Myself, and most of my colleagues, who include casual workers, have signed on ourselves in the past, so we know what it's like.

I was never late for any appointment there, but I was saying they would have b*ll*cked me if I was (I saw it happen to other "Job Seekers"). I was always early, and they never kept to the appointed time. So please don't patronise me and lecture me about punctuality, Jobsworth. Obviously, I consider a proper job interview more important than the time-wasting charade of attending a Job Centre to be quizzed by a junior clerk who knew nothing about the type of work I was looking for.

The whole thing was a waste of time from my point of view. They were not geared up for finding work for anyone except the most mundane jobs for unskilled workers, yet they forced me to go through the motions of looking at the vacancies on their computer every week. There was never anything there except for that type of work (McDonalds dishwasher, cleaner, etc.). I didn't even want the JSA, but I was told I had to sign on to get the NI contributions paid, or I would lose out.

I was seeking work through the usual channels (agencies, job ads in the press/Internet, etc.) and eventually found work through my own efforts without any help at all from the Job Centre. I found the whole experience of attending there demeaning and humiliating, as I expect is their intention. After 30 years of paying their wages I felt I was entitled to a little more respect - but that counts for nowt in their eyes.

Jobsworth, I expect you are a nice person as you say (your comments indicate that you are), so please don't think I'm saying that all Job Centre staff are like that. That was just my experience, and it's something I hope I never have to go through again. Next time I find myself out of work I'd rather stay away from the Job Centre even if it means my NI contributions won't get paid. That would also keep the government happy, because it would be one less on the unemployment figures.

I wasn't even allowed to go on holiday without reporting to a Job Centre in the town I was visiting. They think paying me 53 quid a week entitles them to run my life, which is what I found the worst aspect.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Jobsworth
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 04:40 PM

Hi Scrump

I agree that the system is a bureaucratic nonsense sometimes, particularly in your case as outlined. However the customer has to be seen to be looking for a job, and we have to be seen asking them about it. We have to input information on a computer, and that information is regularly checked that it is sufficient, and if it isn't we are asked questions ourselves.

The other week a girl said she had been taken on a surprise birthday weekend abroad within the last fortnight. I could have said, your claim will be closed, and you will have to make a brand new claim, according to the rules. Instead I pretended she said Manchester, not Majorca and told her nice one, well done.

I work in an Inner city office, and we regularly contend with threats of violence as well. This can bear down on you, and you sometimes forget to put on a smile for the next person in the queue.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 10:12 AM

The best kind of job to get out of a Jobcentre (or similar) is one of those agencies that run courses for the long-term unemployed, and get paid large Government subsidies to counsel and advise them; that is, another layer of bureaucracy

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 12:27 PM

"I work in a Jobcentre. The bottom line is you're asked to come in once a fortnight, on time. This isn't the hardest thing in the world to ask for. If you're late it means people who turn up on time will be seen late as a consequence."

Yes, 'Jobsworth' I would like to echo 'Scrump's' frustration. Last year I was in the same situation as Scrump. I always turned up on time and was always scrupulously polite. I was almost never seen on time and, although some of your colleague's were OK, some were, basically, patronising gits. I don't recall meeting a single member of staff who gave me any confidence at all that they could supply me with any relevant job vacancies and no-one seemed to have the faintest idea (or interest) in what I might be looking for. It seemed to me that it was all about going through meaningless bureaucratic motions.
And returning to the subject of turning up on time and punctuality, I was invited (with veiled threats) for interview on four separate occasions and on each occasion the interview was cancelled AFTER I had made the effort to arrive at the Job Centre ON TIME. On the fourth occasion it was only because I insisted that they interview me that they found someone (who was as useless as all the rest).
So, 'Jobsworth', before you dare to patronise people like me and Scrump, I suggest you look at putting your own house in order - or failing that, get yourself a proper job!!

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:26 PM

Jobsworth, thanks for your reply. I understand you must have to deal with some difficult 'clients' in your job, and it must be difficult at times.

Maybe the government needs to rethink the way Job Centres are run. Perhaps there should be different procedures for dealing with people such as me (and I suspect Shimrod?), i.e. experienced and qualified professionals who happen to be out of work later in their career (in my case through redundancy), as opposed to the young person who has just left school with no qualifications. I didn't feel that any attempt was made to handle these two very different situations any differently from each other.

Maybe you could feed back this comment to your bosses, as you are in a position to do something about it. It would presumably make your job easier too, if people were given more appropriate treatment, instead of this useless 'one size fits all' approach, that clearly doesn't work. Maybe this is the cause of some of the resentment that you have suffered in the past. I'm not excusing violence against Job Centre staff (far from it, I condemn it), but why make it difficult for yourselves?

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Jobsworth
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:07 PM

The trouble is I'm not in a position to do anything about it, as it comes fron the government down. As a 'junior clerk', they won't listen to me.

My advice is to anyone who is not happy with the service, is to complain. There is a comments form available in every Jobcentre. Every complaint goes to the manager.

Write to your MP if necessary, as those complaints get dealt with straightaway. Its just an email away these days.

Complain to your MP

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Jobsworth
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:52 PM

Hi Shimrod

The problem is that around a quarter of people I have to see, turn up late for whatever reason. It means that I either tell them to come back at another time, or see them, and someone else is kept waiting, which may account for your own experience.

If you have a dentist or doctors appointment, you don't turn up late. There are countless times when I am just about to go for my dinner break, or tea break (which I am allowed by law to have), when someone comes in late expecting me to see them. If there is a problem getting in, our phone number is on the ES40(formerly UB40) signing on book, and the appointment can be rearranged accordingly.

As per my previous post, if you are unhappy with the service, make a complaint. Equally, if you are happy with the service you receive, put it in writing as well. Each has its own consequence.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 06:24 AM

People do turn up at the doctor or the dentist late and equally people who turn up promptly are still often seen late. It doesn't just happen at the Jobcentre.

I'm one of these people who always has to be somewhere early so I have to wait the amount of time I was early by, plus the amount of time that I'm seen late. I seem to have spent hours and hours just waiting to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 09:24 PM

"I seem to have spent hours and hours just waiting to be seen. "


Wear bright colours.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST,Freddie
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 05:06 AM

How do I go about paying my own Ni contributions so I can get away from the awful job centre

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:09 AM

Foolestroupe - I'm in bright colours today!

Guest; Freddie - my son pays his own contributions. He is out at the moment but I'm almost certain that the envelope requesting them comes from the Inland Revenue. If nobody else answers your question I'll come back to you later when I've spoken to him.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:22 AM

ES40(formerly UB40)

I didn't realise they had changed their name (I'll get me P45)

How do I go about paying my own Ni contributions so I can get away from the awful job centre

One thing that amazed me was that when I attended the Job Centre (while unemployed) that they never explained this option was available to me. I didn't discover it until afterwards, when a friend told me that's what he had done. As I said earlier, if I'd known, I would gladly have taken this option rather than endure the indignity of attending that godforsaken place - and I imagine the government would have been only too happy to have me classed as 'employed' even though I would still have been out of work.

I don't know who you have to pay it to, presumably the Revenue & Customs, but I believe if you are out of work and paying the NI contributions yourself it is a fairly small amount per week (relative to what you would pay while in work). I don't know the details, but maybe you could check out the Revenue & Customs site.

Maybe Jobsworth will know though?

As a 'junior clerk', they won't listen to me.

One thing I don't understand, Jobsworth, is why you and others who don't like working at the Job Centre, don't find yourselves better jobs and move on. I assume if a good vacancy arises, you will be able to get the details and apply for it before anyone else. Or is there something in your contract that prevents you doing that?

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:30 AM

HM Revenue and Customs
National Insurance Contributions Office
www.hmrc.gov.uk

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 08:53 AM

Scrump and shimrod are typical unfortunately of the idiots jobsworth has to deal with for not very good pay.

Patronising doesn't begin to describe you! Do you think the woman who mops the floor after you in the public toilets is brimming with job satisfaction? Or the bin man who gets up in the dark in winter to shift your accumulated rubbish?

Yet as 'professionals' you are above these jobs eh? Get real.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:15 AM

Far from it, GUEST. I did take a temporary low-paid job for a few months (supermarket shelf stacker, night shift if you want to know) to help make ends meet while I was looking for 'proper' work. I'm not suggesting I'm 'above' such jobs, but if a highly qualified person goes along to the Job Centre, it would be more sensible for them to be referred to an appropriate agency that would have more suitable jobs, rather than expect someone with financial commitments (a mortgage, etc.) to work in McDonald's, when there are presumably low qualified applicants who could do these jobs just as well.

I hope I'm not an idiot, GUEST, just pointing out the shortcomings of the government's 'one size fits all' approach to getting people into work.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 09:30 AM

Dear Mr. Jobsworth----- I have read your comments with interest !!
Let me apprise you of the situation regarding the Jobcentre in Staines ( The Town That God Forgot ). I pointed out that there were / are lots of jobs nearby,at Heathrow, but that everyone who applies MUST have a current passport, so would they (the JC) pay for mine to be renewed ?? Certainly not !!! I pointed out that I had spent YEARS as a fork-lift truck driver,with various employers including MOD & British Aerospace, but my licence had lapsed, could I go on a course to renew/ refresh it, at the JC's expense ?? Certainly not !!! I was finding it difficult to find another job, as I had been dismissed from my last one ( I made a comment about " Our Coloured Friends " ( my exact words ) & was sacked for racism !!!!!) so should I tell the truth when filling in an application form ??? "Christ ! No !!" they said ---" Don"t do that !! Tell " em you resigned, or something !! "
"So you want me to lie then ?? " I said. " Bloody right, mate ! "
"Can I use the lavatory,please ??" --- "No,you can"t----we int got a public one "ere ". " Where can I go then ?? " ," Dunno ! " ----so ,on the way out,I had a piss in the car-park just like everyone else !!

Perhaps you will have the great good fortune to be transferred there one day, Mr, Jobsworth.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 10:11 AM

Scrump I would hope 'a highly qualified person' would know exactly which agencies have the type of job they are willing to undertake. It isn't the job centres role to spoon feed these 'highly qualified' people. I imagine jobcentres rely on employers advertising jobs with them.

Sorry for assuming you sat on your arse waiting for a suitable role, it was the assumption in your last paragraph to jobsworth, that they should find somewhere they 'like' to work. The majority of people have little enough pleasure in their working day, but they should not be expected to tolerate abuse and threats. And be told to look elsewhere if they find that aspect of their job not to their taste.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: Scrump
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 11:18 AM

Scrump I would hope 'a highly qualified person' would know exactly which agencies have the type of job they are willing to undertake. It isn't the job centres role to spoon feed these 'highly qualified' people. I imagine jobcentres rely on employers advertising jobs with them.

Yes, GUEST, that's my point. The system in place expects us to attend regardless of what type of work we are seeking, yet wastes everybody's time by going through the pointless motions in accordance with their procedures. This is what I think the government should be looking at improving, i.e. providing a more appropriate service with more relevance to the individual "job seeker".

As I said, I was looking myself through the usual channels (agencies, ads in the press/Internet, networking, etc.) and I got a job without any help from the Job Centre. All they did was waste my time and theirs, and hence the taxpayer's money.

I didn't expect the Job Centre to 'spoon feed' me - far from it. I'd rather they had just let me get on and find work myself. On the other hand, I didn't expect to be given a hard time - they didn't seem to understand that there's often a longer lead time for skilled jobs (taking account of the more complex recruitment process - interview, short list, 2nd interview, etc.).

As I said, in the end I got a temporary low-paid job anyway, as I needed to pay the bills, pending a 'proper' job coming to fruition (which in my case it did in the end, fortunately for me).

Sorry for assuming you sat on your arse waiting for a suitable role, it was the assumption in your last paragraph to jobsworth, that they should find somewhere they 'like' to work. The majority of people have little enough pleasure in their working day, but they should not be expected to tolerate abuse and threats. And be told to look elsewhere if they find that aspect of their job not to their taste.

My question to Jobsworth was a simple one - I wondered if there was anything in Job Centre staff's contracts to prevent them taking advantage of their privileged position (with respect to job opportunities arising and being notified to them first) by applying for these jobs themselves, should they wish to.

I would have thought if they don't like the abuse and threats from some of their 'clients', looking elsewhere would be the best option. As I said above, I certainly sympathise with anyone who has to take abuse and violence when they are just doing their job, and I condemn those who behave in this way - it's totally unacceptable. But if it happens, I would have thought the best thing to do would be to get away from it if you can - I know I would try to if I was in that position.

Subject: RE: BS: At the Job Centre
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:15 AM

"Foolestroupe - I'm in bright colours today!"

Well, even if nobody sees you - you'l feel happier!