Opinions please-instrument closest to human voice?

Subject: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

I have a friend who plays the Saxophone, and I don't like the sound that instrument makes. When I told her that, she went nuts and told me how wrong I am etc.
Anyway, she says that the Sax is the instrument that is closer to the human voice than all others. I say that place is occupied by the violin.
What do you think?

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Peace
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:35 PM

"Anyway, she says that the Sax is the instrument that is closer to the human voice than all others. I say that place is occupied by the violin."

I guess it would depend on whose singin' yer listenin' to.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:37 PM

I am not in a position to comment, Kendall. I love the sound of a banjo.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Bainbo
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:39 PM

Is no one going to make the "gratuitous sax and violins" joke?

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:39 PM

There are singers whose voices have a saxophone quality - Frank Sinatra was one.

The violin sounds more like the human singing voices I like best though.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Peace
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:42 PM

Badly played, they both sound like a cat with its tail caught in a door.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:43 PM

Why botger to defend what is basically your own sense of what you like and what you personally find irritating?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

Susan, I wish I knew!

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: khandu
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

Kendall, how can you be wrong for "not liking" the sound of a sax? Am I wrong for not liking modern blues music? No! And if any of my friends go "nuts" because my tastes are different from theirs, then they are nuts to begin with and they can bite a fat hog in the ass.

And I agree 100% with McGrath of Harlow.

ken

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: mrdux
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 07:47 PM

Also depends on whose playing you're listening to. Coleman Hawkins could get some really warm breathy vocal sounds out of his tenor sax.

michael

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: John O'L
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:25 PM

There is no right or wrong where taste is concerned, only opinions. In my opinion the trombone is the instrument closest to the human voice.
Right?

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:30 PM

And then it depends which sax you're playing !

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:30 PM

Which voice and which sax? I might go along with windblown instruments being somewhat more intimate than a stringed instrument, but that's pretty thin and would get a lot of argument. However.........

Like the human voice, saxes DO come in different ranges but the tonal quality is very different between a Tenor Sax and a Bari Sax.....or an Alto and a Soprano. It isn't just the range, it is the sound of the instrument itself. The great Charlie Parker was asked why he didn't play Tenor instead of Alto. He said that he couldn't play Tenor because he "didn't speak like that." What he meant was he heard and thought and knew the Alto so intimately that playing Tenor would be like trying to translate his thoughts into a foreign language. Note that the great ones are known for only one ax.

I never approached that level of performance but I can relate to The Bird's feelings. I was always a comfortable and relaxed Tenor player but my Alto work was only satisfactory at best. I never really understood an Alto as I did a Tenor. As a Tenor soloist I knew exactly where and how I could push the instrument and allow it to translate my idea to notes. Although I had the same technical skill on Alto, my solos sounded to me as if I were forcing something that wasn't there. Hence, I played Alto only as needed and played Tenor far, far more.

Look, I dunno' if a Sax is any closer to the human voice than a Fluegelhorn or a bull roarer but I think both of you are full of shit, but for different reasons!(;<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:39 PM

Which instrument sounds most like,
A. Louis Armstrong?
B. Dave VonRonk?
C. Tom Waits?

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 08:48 PM

Kendall! What were you thinking? I fear for you, man.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Greg B
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 09:04 PM

A lot of instruments kind of sound nasty if you really
listen to them.

Best example is the fiddle. Play a single note on a
violin, and draw it out. Now matter how well-played it
is, if you really listen it sounds like someone band-sawing
a steel pipe.

Yet, when used to make 'music' the fiddle is certainly one
of the prettiest instruments on earth.

A drawn out note on a sax sounds like a goose with sinusitis
deflating. But in the hands of an expert--- what a variety
of sound!

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 09:17 PM

Fact is, I'm not fond of any wind instrument, although, I find the French horn pleasing, and the trumpet when played Herb Alpert style. However, when someone hits that high note that irritates the hell out of me.

When Heifitz plays Scottish Fantasy it is nothing short of beautiful.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 09:23 PM

I am refraining from comment. (but I like banjos too)

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 09:29 PM

well, there are some things that almost REQUIRE a sax

(warning..YouTube link....don't click without broadband)

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:23 AM

Love the fiddle and really can't stand the sound of the sax so I guess I am with you Kendall.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Alec
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:36 AM

We all like what we like.I am fond of both Violin & Saxophone.
There is a lot of music in existence which needs one or the other.
(Mind you my affection for both the Mellotron & Electric Sitar rankles with some people.)
As for which instrument sounds most like the human voice,my vote would have to go to Sparky the Magic Piano.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Elaine Green
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:22 AM

I've always thought that what people are talking about when they say this sort of thing is the microtonal quality, the ability to hit 'blue' notes, and to slide gracefully between intervals, blah blah. To me that IS more like the human voice than most instruments. So in that way her statement works for both instruments.

Still, what one likes and what one doesn't like is finally a matter of opinion, and we all know what those are like, as I was told by a rude fellow on a city bus not long ago. Granted the truth of his statement, they are as important as that, too, mentally if not biologically.

Personal taste is a product of so many elements and is, well, personal. Where all of us go wrong from time to time is getting on a high horse and thinking that opinions are factual, that we are of necessity right.

Saxophones I associate with smoke and beauty, for some reason, but not in a bad way, more in a noir movie kind of way, when it was innocent/cool. Violins I associate with delicacy and beauty. But that's just what they are, associations.

I like a world where there is room for both!

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:40 AM

It is of course in the ear of the beholder.
Quite simply I enjoy Stan Getz as much as Lee Allen or Dewey Balfa as much as Nigel Kennedy.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: redsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:53 AM

Personally I love both in the hands of good players. Same with other instruments.

RS

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wordsmith
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:55 AM

I agree with everyone who said it's a matter of personal choice. I was just being nerdy and looking up Jascha Heifetz on the internet and got booted out of what I'd already written. The gist was that I love both instruments. I have been a Stan Getz fan from when I first heard his collaboration with Joao Gilberto, but I also grew up with Fritz Kreissler. I loved Paul Desmond when I first found Dave Brubeck (I was in high school.) We won't go into how long ago that was, suffice it to say, I just got a notice from my college for our 35th reunion. As I write, I'm listening to Yehudi Menuhin playing alongside Ravi Shankar in one of their West Meets East sessions. This question reminds me of the "what's your favorite music?" debate. It's endless. On the other hand, one can learn a lot from reading people's responses. I've never heard an Electric Sitar, but I'd like to now. I would be remiss if I didn't mention Natalie McMaster, Michael O'Connor, Allyson Krause, and, most memorably, Ashley MacIsaac as fiddlers to whom I'm partial, too. I was never fond of trumpets until I heard Chris Botti play one. When do we talk about pianos? ;D

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wordsmith
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:59 AM

I knew I misspelled MacMaster!

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Scrump
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:07 AM

If you want something that sounds like the human voice, why not sing?

:-)

Have you ever heard anyone singing like a violin, a saxophone, or any other musical instrument, for that matter?

They and other instruments have their place, but not as a substitute for the human voice.

The 'argument' is pointless. You'll just have to agree to differ.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Alec
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:38 AM

Wordsmith there's good usage use of Electric Sitar on "Green Tambourine" by The Lemon Pipers which elevates what could easily have been a somewhat saccharine & contrived song into something which is genuinely fun.
(That's merely my opinion though)

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: kendall
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 07:53 AM

This lady is a republican control freak. (Redundant)
Her opinion is always a fact. She drives me nuts.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:34 AM

Ever the contrarian, I vote for the cello for the closest to the human voice.

My Beautiful wife, looking over my shoulder, reminds me of the pipeorgan stop called "vox humana", which, as you might gather, is supposed to sound like the human voice.   And also as you might gather, my BW is an organist.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:13 PM

"I have a friend who plays the Saxophone, and I don't like the sound that instrument makes. When I told her that, she went nuts and told me how wrong I am etc."

I think what you're really looking at here is that your friend is hearing something different from what you are saying. You've said that you don't like the sound of the saxaphone. What she is hearing is that you don't like the sound SHE makes when she is playing the saxaphone. Is it possible that she's feeling personally rejected?

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:16 PM

Have you ever heard anyone singing like a violin, a saxophone, or any other musical instrument, for that matter?


Yes I have. And to great effect. The King's Singers do this on a couple of their CDs. They were inspired by a prewar German group called The Comedian Harmonists, who did this quite a bit.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Scoville
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

Depends on who's playing it, too. I've heard people who can make guitars "talk". Me on fiddle, on the other hand, sounds more like a donkey than a human voice. I suppose that if one analyzed it all scientifically, saxophone might theoretically be nearest the human voice but there are a lot of variables.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:37 PM

You do like to argue about dumb things.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:37 PM

I've heard mouth harp players sound close to a voice.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:02 PM

from a German forum: Someone has googled the German phrase for "closest to the human voice" and then listed 13 different instruments which have been claimed at least once to have that property. There even may be more with slightly different search terms.

However, the winners (in number) are either oboe or cello. Some of the instruments I only knew the name of, for instance Schalmei (shawm says my dictionary).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: GUEST,Albion Dizzy
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:28 PM

I hope your friend is practising "safe sax"!!

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:31 PM

I think everyone has an instrument they don't like. I personally find the saw actually hurts my ears! Luckily the only time I hear one is in Miskin and there is so much to do there that I simply remove myself to another activity (yeah, OK, so just boozing outside with a load of others) until the guy has finished.

One man's meat ... etc

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: terrier
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM

I was told by a Sax player friend that the sax was the most musically efficient of all the wind instruments. It has the greastest dynamic range and the widest volume range. Through virtually the whole of the range it can be made to 'growl' or be played gently and sweetly. I suppose that could be compared to the human voice???

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: bubblyrat
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:04 PM

Not a great fan of the instrument,but it has its moments!! The soaring alto-sax solo in Gallagher & Lyle"s "Heart in New York" as sung by Art Garfunkel is quite beautiful, for me, and a few years ago I shared a CD of Gregorian Chant intermingled with saxophones, & that was pretty impressive too !! My much-missed friend,the late Jon Hayward, gave me, not long before he died, a CD of himself,playing the music of Turlough O'Carolan along with Alistair Gillies on sax, & it actually works quite well.But I can"t STAND the thing in a dance,or military, band !!! Sorry !

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: mg
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:49 PM

I certainly wouldn't say violin as it is scratched..and the voice is a bellows. Maybe accordian or concerntina. mg

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:12 PM

I have both a tenor sax and a fiddle and, for me, it's the sax which comes closest from a player's point of view.

With the fiddle so close to my ear, I hear lots of little squeaks and scratches, even when I'm playing well. These may well be inaudible to a listener just a few feet away but they are difficult for me to ignore and can lead me into a downward spiral as my confidence ebbs. That never happens with my voice.

With the saxophone, I am playing from deep within myself and am as much feeling as playing the music. The sax is strictly for home consumption so I don't know what others would think of my playing, but they couldn't hear what I hear because I have a complete band accompanying me inside my head.

DC

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 12:10 AM

I like most instruments that use reeds, and don't much like bowed instruments smaller than a viola.

Which sax? There are several. Which human? Base or soprano?


Many animals DON'T like reed instruments. I'll try to take comfort from that.

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wordsmith
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:27 AM

I actually love this conversation, even if it doesn't solve the original dilemma. I'll admit I don't know which is a closer approximation to the human voice, but Wolfgang's response reminded me of Peter and the Wolf, which, as you may know, creates all of the characters' voices with musical instruments - along with a narrator. I think it's a great teaching and learning piece.

Thanks, Bill D. for that link - it brought back memories of Benny Hill.
Thanks, Alec, for the Electric Sitar reference - I'll try to locate the piece.

As for replicating instruments with the voice, besides someone like Bobby McFerin

Subject: RE: Opinions please
From: Wordsmith
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:39 AM

Bobby McFerrin, (I got booted again, but managed to save) I know of a couple of times I've heard Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan approximate instruments masterfully. I think it depends on the singer's voice and elasticity. I have heard people make trumpets sound almost like human laughter. I also don't want to leave the impression that I only like the sax and violin. I'm listening to Cleo Laine, right now, singing, My One and Only Love, and there's someone playing a harmonica fantastically. I think I know who it is, but, thanks to aging, I can't quite remember it now. I'm sure it'll come to me. He used to play jazz harmonica for quite a few jazz singers. Quite mellow. BTW, now, I'm listening to Coleman Hawkins playing Sophisticated Lady, and I can hear the smokiness. See, it's not just the instrument, it's what the artist can wring out of it, too. Maybe it is just the lady who's playing the sax in such a way that it hurts to listen to it, Kendall?

Subject: RE: Opinions please-instrument closest to human voice?
From: GUEST,Cod Fiddler
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM

'Cello is definitely closer to a human voice than a violin. It is much more resonant than a violin and covers the male and female ranges.

Subject: RE: Opinions please-instrument closest to human voice?
From: Grab
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

Cello for low voice. Viola for high voice. Violin for boy chorister.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Opinions please-instrument closest to human voice?
From: GUEST,mick burke
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:59 AM

Your friend is right imo. The sax sounds like a jazz singer's voice. You don't play the sax ,you speak with it ,like Louis Armstrong spoke through the trumpet.

Subject: RE: Opinions please-instrument closest to human voice?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM

Highland Bagpipes...? Okay, only when someone has the singer by the throat - which is usually what happens to me when I play my Highland Bagpipes...!

I don't really think the issue should be which instrument sounds like the human voice, but rather which instrument accompanies it best?

I would agree, though, that Kendall is right to object if a sax doesn't suit him... I play Alto, but I would never inflict it on someone who didn't like it... don't like hands around me throat, dost see?!

Subject: RE: Opinions please-instrument closest to human vo
From: mrdux
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:22 PM

Wordsmith:

is it Toots Thielemans playing harmonica with Cleo Laine, maybe?

michael

ps -- in my earlier post I was thinking of Coleman Hawkins playing "Body and Soul". . . but "Sophisticated Lady" works for me, too.