BS: I ate a clone today

Subject: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:58 AM

But so did you. Be it any dairy product or beef, no labeling is required when clones are used in the corporate food chain.

Clones have now been in the stores for months so odds are, you at a clone or a clone by product.

ITs not solient green* but you are not meant to know.

Last summer there was a week window in which consumer feedback was invited and ignored. It was 95% against no lableing of cloned meat and products. But the corporation is the decider.

You will be called a food nut for protesting against non disclosure but it could be worse.

You could be a clone.




* there may be an exception to this in Baghdad.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:27 PM

I like clones - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:31 PM

So I guess Baskin Robbins sells ice cream clones?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:32 PM

Some people look down on 'kiss and tell'.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:35 PM

And your basis for this statement would be? In what market(s) can cloned meat be found? The FDA's most recent comment is: Because the release of the draft risk assessment and proposed risk management plan marks the beginning of our interaction with the public on these issues, we are continuing to ask producers of clones and livestock breeders to voluntarily refrain from introducing food products from these animals into commerce so that we will have the opportunity to consider the public's comments and to issue any final documents as warranted." The complete FDA policy, which opened a 90-day period for public comment (ending April 7th) is here.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:37 PM

People have been cloning and eating fruits and vegetables for hundreds and in the case of some grape varieties, thousands of years.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:38 PM

Bsessed are the cheese eaters...
a parable representing all forms of dairy product consumers.

a clone by any other name is just the same.

I guess people don't give a rat's ass about eating clones, its just not being allowed to know that ticks me off.

Cloned meat tastes ok unless you
are eating mini meat donuts which are in fact rats asses.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:45 PM

Don, you still haven't shown that there is any cloned meat on the market. The FDA has asked that producers not put any on the market until final rules are promulgated. You also have not given any reason why anyone should have a problem with cloned meat. How do the clones differ from the original? Are they somehow less healthy? Do they contain something which was not in the original animal? Do they lack something which was in the original animal?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:45 PM

Bring on the Star Trek replicators! I want my meat synthesized.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:46 PM

I ate a clone today, Oh Boy
The English Army had just won the war...

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:47 PM

But much worse is the fact that you may still be eating 'irradiated' meat which can be up to seven years old and still appear in the supermarket, when irradiated, as 'fresh meat'

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 01:47 PM

But with no side order of tribbles please.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:36 PM

I have around 100 gardenia bushes. They're all clones of one original plant. They taste awful.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:38 PM

"They taste awful."

Have you tried them with blue cheese dressing?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

Georgian:

The same is true of cadavers after a neutron bomb destroys their city.
Unless predators eat the corpses they will appear fresh while dehydrating for many years.


PS

The FDA doesn't have to tell you. They decided. The complaint/consumer education program has ended.
They don't even need to tell you when the cloned meat first hit the market.

So actual proof of which burger is cloned ain't ever gonna happen.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:46 PM

So, what's the difference between the clone and the original? Got any evidence that there is any cloned meat on the market?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: GUEST,IB48
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:46 PM

WAS IT A SMALL CLONE OR A LARGE ONE WITH A FLAKE IN?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM

When you experience something for the second time they call it deja vue...so when you eat something you have eaten before(ie the clone of the sheep you had last year) it must be deja mange!

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 03:05 PM

If you wish to comment on the proposal, check out the article I linked to above. Comments will be received until April 7th.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 03:11 PM

From the link provided by Art.

Because clones will be used primarily for breeding, almost all of the food that comes from the cloning process is expected to be from sexually-reproduced offspring and descendents of clones, and not the clones themselves.

Also from the same location:

FDA is seeking comments from the public on the three documents for the next 90 days. To submit electronic comments on the three documents, visit http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/oc/dockets/comments/commentdocket.cfm?AGENCY=FDA. Written comments may be sent to: Division of Dockets Management (HFA-305), Food and Drug Administration, 5630 Fishers Lane, Rm. 1061, Rockville, MD, 20852. Comments must be received by Apr. 2, 2007 and should include the docket number 2003N-0573.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:26 PM

"Some people look down on 'kiss and tell'."

Cluin, you do have a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:52 PM

Do you eat cultured yogurt? Then you've eaten clones.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:31 PM

What only comes in vanilla, vanilla, vanilla?
Ice cream clones.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: John Hardly
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:47 PM

White Christmas, White Christmas -- starring Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Vera-Ellen, and Rosemary Cloney

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: BanjoRay
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:14 PM

Every single banana that everyone eats is a clone. The trees are all grown from cuttings - bananas are the fruit of an infertile mutation.
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: MMario
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:51 PM

Apples, plums, pears, peaches etc are all produced via a cloning process - they don't come true from seed.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Grab
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

Be it any dairy product or beef...Clones have now been in the stores for months

Sorry Donuel, you're misinformed, and whoever told you that is flat-out lying.

It is currently vastly expensive to clone an animal. FDA and co are working now in preparation for the day when this isn't the case. But the amount of work required, and the number of live births versus failures, put the costs of cloning a shitload higher than "nature's way".

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:48 AM

By intenetionally not lableing cloned food, Agri Corp hopes to avoid a public rejection of cloned food over usual food. A preference for normal food is clearly liekely especially among religious zealots.

Take away knowledge and you take away a consumers informed consent.


Like Sinclair Lewis I too believe that secrecy does not belong in our food.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:49 PM

You still have not shown that any cloned animals have made it to market. Several people have shown that it is extremely unlikely for that to happen. Where is your evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:29 PM

We will never know will we.

I tried the gene spliced tomatos years before they announced that they spliced with fish genes to avoid cold damage and bruising. THe problem with those tomatoes is that they actually did taste fishy.

So go to the site and say you want labeling and not secrecy.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:32 PM

But you said that they weren't taking public comment any more.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: JeremyC
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:46 PM

If a clone is indistinguishable from the "real" thing, I don't see what the problem is. Not to mention what everyone else has said: no evidence, lots of expense, plants are already cloned as a matter of course.

Jeffp: We don't need no steeenkin evidence! I think in this case, though, the evidence comes from voices in the walls. My evidence for this is the testimony of George Michael, who is talking to me from above the ceiling tiles.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Grab
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:12 PM

We will never know will we.

Hmm, let's see. We can get a half-dozen farmers to create us an entire herd of beef cattle for maybe a couple of hundred grand. Or we can spend a couple of hundred grand on a research project which *might* (if we're lucky) produce a single cloned cow that survives to maturity without major deformities or diseases. Tough choice for the accountants, that one.

Tell you what, when you see a steak for $500, let us know. At that price, it could be a steak from cloned beef.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: MMario
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:16 PM

it would probably be higher then that. Kobe beef can go into that price range as it is. I wouldn't expect cloned meat to be less expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:13 PM

Potatoes.   Jerusalem artichokes.   Strawberries.   Onions.

All cloned. Always. Except when they breed a new variety.

What's the problem?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: MMario
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM

not onions. most onion sets are grown from seed. garlic, yes. Onions, no.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: bubblyrat
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:27 PM

If you want to avoid all this cloning & genetic modification & other ways of feeding an over-populated world, then simply nuke everyone,or release clouds of botulinus toxins into the atmosphere. Then we could all,those of us that are left,go back to natural,organic, home- grown food. But this isn"t Disneyland,it"s the real world, so I guess Cloning wins -----???

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: JeremyC
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM

bubblyrat posted:
If you want to avoid all this cloning & genetic modification & other ways of feeding an over-populated world, then simply nuke everyone,or release clouds of botulinus toxins into the atmosphere. Then we could all,those of us that are left,go back to natural,organic, home- grown food. But this isn"t Disneyland,it"s the real world, so I guess Cloning wins -----???

I think along the same lines. It's actually wasteful to farm organically.

But a while back, I picked up some "organic" celery by mistake, and I'll be damned if it doesn't taste better. It's so wasteful and indulgent, and yet it tastes so good! Must I give up flavor for social responsibility? It makes me so sad.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:39 PM

Beg pardon, Mario - quite right.   I nearly put garlic instead!! Although I think onions are self-pollinated so there'll be little varaition (geddit?).

Having just read the McD****** thread I suggest everyone ignores Jeremy C's postings.

S

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:13 PM

Clones are different than hybrids.

There are many possible dangers of cloning.

This article http://www.cyberparent.com/gran/geneticfoodsenvironment.htm

outlines a few:

1. unlike other kinds of waste, genetic contamination cannot be cleaned up or contained.

2. Some scientists fear that newly created "transgenes" will spread unintentionally from target crops to related weed species. They fear this will lead to a new class of "superweeds."

3. "Terminator seeds" could destroy the world's food supply and force over a billion farmers worldwide to buy seeds from the giant agribusinesses that sold them the sterile seeds in the beginning.

http://www.cyberparent.com/gran/geneticfoodsenvironment.htm

I can't help but wonder what will happen when clones escape into the wild. Its not something I would want to support. The risks are very high.

Do you really want the manufacturers of product like DDT to control agribusiness? I think the environment is much more important.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:16 PM

Cloning is also different from genetic modification.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: MMario
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:18 PM

Those are *not* cloning issues. As has been stated - many fruits and vegetables are already and have been for centuries, produced by cloning.

And aside from "terminator genes" normal hybridization and selection (such as has been practiced since virtually the dawn of agriculture) pose many of the same problems as the GMO crops.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:28 PM

Different from, if you please, dianavan! (Fowler is emphatic on the point!)

There is no genetic transfer involved in the production of a clone. A clone is an individual or group of individuals genetically identical to its (their) parent. Many plants (some of which I and others have mentioned above) do this naturally by asexual/vegetative reproduction which involves no meiosis, reassortment, recombination or fertilisation. Humans have been taking advantage of this process since....well, probably since before they were human!

Whether we ought to interfere with reproduction of domestic animals by cloning them by what we might call a 'parasexual' process is another matter. The process does involve the sexual reproductive system but uses the nucleus of a somatic (ordinary body) cell so that the offspring are genetically identical to the animal from which the nucleus came.

It could be argued that we have no right to do such a thing but this and similar questions are ethical or philosophical and not connected with health. Since the members of a clone are genetically identical to their parent there is no conceivable difference between eating the parent and the offspring. (apart from the obvious impossibility of an eaten parent producing offspring! Maybe you could just eat a leg...?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Schantieman
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:32 PM

)

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:39 PM

Donuel assured us:
I tried the gene spliced tomatos years before they announced that they spliced with fish genes to avoid cold damage and bruising. THe problem with those tomatoes is that they actually did taste fishy.

Did you do a blind multiple-choice taste test, Donuel? If you merely ate a tomato you understood to be fish-gene modified, and decided it tasted fishy, please forgive me if I don't believe you. It's VERY easy to fool oneself.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:45 PM

Thanks for setting me straight on that. I find the whole topic confusing and a little scary (obviously).

If its not a health question or an environmental question, what is the ethical question, exactly.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

From: Schantieman - PM
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:28 PM

Different from, if you please, dianavan! (Fowler is emphatic on the point!)



English language & English Literature were my top subjects at college, and I had it very firmly drummed into me that My opinion could differ FROM someone elses, which would make it different THAN theirs.

I'm with Dianavan

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: JeremyC
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:52 PM

I agree with Fowler (an excellent, not to mention witty, source on style), and I don't believe I've seen instructions to the contrary in any accepted style manual (such as Gregg or Strunk & White). Do you have a source for your contention?

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: jeffp
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:03 PM

The usage notes in my American Heritage Dictionary say that different from should be used when comparing two items or ideas. "This is different from that." Different than should be used when followed by a phrase, such as, "Paris today is different than it was 50 years ago."

A fine distinction indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: I ate a clone today
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:10 AM

Thanks, Don, but Fowler is correct. This is not, however, an English essay. Its internet communication. I hope you don't judge my language skills by what I write on this forum.