BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)

Subject: BS: This corporate nation of ours
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 04:01 AM

I was just posting to another thread 'De-stabilizing Iraq' & decided to start this.
The US in IMHO is no longer a democracy, it's a nation of corporations & is run like one. We go no where & do nothing unless it benefits our own self interests. We're not in Iraq to help the people nor to bring a new & better form of government nor to free anything but enterprise & the same goes for our eyeballing of Iran or anywhere else. We use the same tactics of hostile takeovers when mergers aren't going to work or we'll force nations into agreements the same way Wal-Mart uses up small business suppliers & spits them out after they're of no further use. We'll reorganize, downsize, sell off parts, outsource, any thing is fair in love & war & business. When the CEO isn't doing well the stockholders hold their meetings to see if they're still getting a good enough slice & if not bring in the next headless wonder. Some corporations have always had their employees best interests at heart & some haven't. Those that have never needed a union to protect their workers because the workers were comfortable with there exchange of labor for what was returned to them. Then you have those that never had in interest in their employees except that they had to keep them working any way they could & over time the unions became their spokesperson. Well when times were tough it took more to keep these islands of business afloat & that's where this government is now. Barely afloat! This multi national corporation of ours is not run for nor by the people & it hasn't had that intent since WWII was over. This conglomerate of ours no longer has a UNION for the protection of its people but it does have a need to keep them producing only whose that sure of what is being produced & whose producing it & is it worth it. This country is no longer sure of what it is supposed to be putting out. It doesn't know what to import or export, it doesn't have a clear picture of what its role is as a business in the corporate world. It doesn't know how it needs to ride the info wagon (it does know why though) or to prop up it's big Auto 3 & ask if they'll turn their 70% worth of their gas guzzling market into more greener investment which flies in the face of other big corporations, it doesn't know if it can survive or how to survive a brave new world. It's eating itself up in the meantime, it's feeding off itself. It doesn't even know when to stop scrambling over the remains of a nation going bankrupt or when the bits & pieces that get sold off are the parts & guts that hold the machinery together. So what are we really great for? What can we produce or do that sets us aside? What is our future plan after we invade Iraq or Iran we don't really have a solid clue except to continue as before but the neocons do, along with a few others but their interest don't have us or the rest of the world at heart. So where are we headed. There's nothing in space profits, hell we can't even stay in the air. The ocean is not becoming a hot spot for investment. We can't even afford to drive our cars never mind make them turn a profit & technology is in the hands of Congress & the Japanesse. Banking, we're trying but then that's almost like throwing good money after bad now & with the loans we owe & our credit, not a good choice. Energy, please we don't even know who's developing policy there never mind that it's something that we can't even seem to see,,,,,,,,,or hear our way through, we've opened up that can of worms & it's looks like Iraq.
Norm Chomsky is some what right when he says the government is run like the Mafia, at least in the way he states that how they demand loyalty & disk out punishment & what he says about nations whose actions of independence & defiance fly in the face of the beliefs & policies of a US run by corporations (see the Norm Chomsky thread). But even the Mafia has been trying to go legit for the past 40 yrs & have itself perceived as a corporation. If anyone thinks that this nation gives a care or thought to another nation aside from its allies /associates I love to know why they think that when we have no friends since WWII only partners & associates & we treat them accordingly & as it pleases us & most of the time it's not in favor of the other so called friendly nations but only in favor of commerce. Some nations we just can't deal with, how's the old saying go? The Lodges talk to the Rockefellers, the Rockefellers talk to the Cabots & the Cabots talk only to God. Well we don't talk to the Chinese, we can't even talk Chinese, it's a shame the Russians couldn't speak English.

The down side of running a nation like a corporation is that it hasn't got the heart it takes nor the ability to care for its own people. You can't on one hand care & see after their welfare & on the other hand use & abuse them & chew them up to be cast aside. You can't have it both ways. You can't expect that when your corporate nation starts to fail that the buzzards won't be sitting in the wings waiting.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:10 AM

Is this somehow a new revelation? BTW, the US has never been a democracy; it is generally accepted that 1000 people is the outside limit for a functional democracy. From time to time it does make some attempt to be the republic it was originally intended to be.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: JennyO
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 09:40 AM

Indeed this is not a new revelation, although it's an idea that is often played down and not mentioned too often, as it comes uncomfortably close to the truth. However, I would go further and not only apply it to just the US, but to the world in general.

The movie "Network", made in 1976, was way ahead of its time in many ways, and I have never forgotten one of Paddy Chayefsky's more incisive soliloquies, delivered by the owner of UBS, Arthur Jensen (Ned Beatty). In my opinion this is nearer to the truth than anything else I have ever heard in a movie. They don't make movies like that any more, unfortunately.

You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it. Is that clear? You think you merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken millions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back. It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity. It is ecological balance. You are an old man, who thinks in terms of nations, and peoples. There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians, there are no Arabs, there are no Third Worlds; there is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and interwoven, interacting, multi-variant, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, Reichmarks, Rubles, Pounds and Sheckles.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and sub-atomic, and galactic structure of things today. And you have meddled with the primal forces of nature. And you will atone.

You get up on your little 21 inch screen, and howl about "America", and "democracy." There is no America, there is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T. And Dupont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:04 AM

Yes, that's the sad truth of it. The world has been taken over by business that knows no other purpose than business. Human culture has lost its mind, in effect.

A book which explains this very clearly and succinctly, through the direct experience of a man who made his career in the Corporatocracy is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. It's easily available, in paperback. Read it for a clear-eyed look at what lies behind all major foreign policy initiatives...the search to enlarge corporate profit for the benefit of a select few...those who run those corporations.

Nationalism is archaic at this point, but it is still used to get the public to support some course of action.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: JeremyC
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:09 AM

JennyO - You have found the perfect quote. Thank you. I watched Network quite a few years ago and completely forgot about that little speech. Now I'm going to have to watch it again.

(by the way, is anyone wondering whether "Idiocracy" is going to be as accurate in a few years as "Network" is now?)

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 10:09 AM

Oh, by the way...it isn't a conspiracy. It's just the natural evolution of a $ySStem that is based primarily on greed for money, in which the major incentives are monetary, and the real source of power is money. It's what happens when you create huge independently acting artificial entities called "corporations" and make it possible for them to do what they naturally do (enlarge themselves and increase their profits) without regard to human welfare or planetary welfare...and without accountability.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:24 AM

Isn't corporate control of government the classic definition of Fascism?

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 01:14 PM

No. Like "liberal," "conservative" and "gay," Fascism has been redefined many times to provide a target to aim towards. The classic definition of Fascism in this respect (Mussolini's - and he basically invented it) is that the Fascist State organizes the nation. That is, there is central, governmental, control of the economy, including corporations. This is distinguished from communism (which has never existed, USSR and China notwithstanding), where the state owns the economy or, more properly, the economy is one aspect of the state.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 02:18 PM

Good thread.

Thats why people like Prince Bandar (Saudi Arabia) are waiting in the wings. The U.S. and Saudi Arabia are hand in glove at this point, but make no mistake, Bandar is Muslim and adheres to religious tradition, especially when it comes to women. The U.S. is dependent on Saudi Arabia and will do whatever it takes to protect its corporate interests. Religion and democracy have nothing to do with it or Bandar would not be an ally. In fact, I am beginning to believe that it is Bandar that is calling the shots.

"There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians, there are no Arabs, there are no Third Worlds; there is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and interwoven, interacting, multi-variant, multi-national dominion of dollars."

At this point, its about petro-dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 04:27 PM

Well I'm glad that you all realize this, with all the patriotic banter about democracy & Iran & the support of what & why governments do what they do best I was begining to think that maybe the wool was not only getting pulled over to many eyes but it was causing an alarming brain rash.
This government is just doing what governments do, nothing personnal, it's all just done in the name of business & at the moment we are one of the bigger ones though we've yet to figure out what to do about the new boy, China. We're not yet sure of their goals, their language, their rules, games imports & exports. The Suadi's we've been in bed with them for quite a while & they play with us & we play with them but there's no trust as it should be in business dealings. Prince Bander is part of the family run business/nation, you can bet he calls alot of the shots only in Suadi it's more of a tight nit run "mom & pop" idea & religion doesn't play any part in it's operation, just like here in the US. Religion only serves the purposes of the company, a useful tool for the swaying of the masses.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:27 PM

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: bobad
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:29 PM

"Mass is the opiate of the religious"

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 07:33 PM

Money is the opiate of modern society. It leaves religion totally in the dust. Its influence upon society is decisive, pervasive, and overwhelming. It co-opts religion whenever it can, as a useful servant to the God of Profit. It controls everything.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:01 PM

Oh you refer to "The Prophet Marginne", doubtlessly...

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:09 PM

Artbrooks -- what is the source for your assertion that "it is generally accepted that 1000 people is the outside limit for a functional democracy"?

BTW, I am a member.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 08:10 PM

He was part of the Fooles Troupe culture ages ago...

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 10:30 AM

"Money is the opiate of modern society. It leaves religion totally in the dust. Its influence upon society is decisive, pervasive, and overwhelming. It co-opts religion whenever it can, as a useful servant to the God of Profit. It controls everything."

            In the western world, corporate players are still using religion to control the masses to make money. That might be one reason that in the long run, China will have the advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: autolycus
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 12:31 PM

Do aNY OF YOU HAVE AN ANSWER IN THE "eCONOMIC tRUTH" THREAD?

jUST WONDERING.

   Soory, sorry.

   That wasn't supposed to be in caps. Just not watching the screen.

   Sorry.



   Oh,and where are our neo-cons just when we need them?






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:36 AM

The passengers stranded on jet blue are a microcosm of the US population.

think about it.




Citizens when loyal are rewarded with cash whcih gives them certain privileges. But in a nation which is run like a minimum security prison, the most you can hope for is a "TRUSTEE" position compared to the rest of the prisoners.

Subject: RE: BS: This corporate nation of ours (USA)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:44 AM

... like the 'Halburton Trustees'... :-)