BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???

Subject: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: jimlad9
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 08:53 AM

What is the origin of the phrase.."to put the mockers on me"

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: skipy
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 09:45 AM

Simply to:-
mock or ridicule.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: jimlad9
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 10:22 AM

Perhaps I should have given an example thus:

During a Rugby match the commentator said "well Saints are playing much better now",
his co commentator said " I hope you have not put the mockers on them". It had because the opposing team then scored a try.

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 10:29 AM

In your example he could equally well have said "I hope you're not speaking too soon". Doesn't explain mockers though.

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: MBSLynne
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 10:48 AM

I don't think so skipy...I always took it to mean putting some sort of curse or ill-wish on something. Whenever I've heard it used that is the way it sounds. Don't know the origin though. It has a slightly Voodooish sound to it. I wonder if it might have origins in that direction?

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 10:52 AM

Was "mockers" ever a word used to name the "stocks" (wooden yokes) that could be fastened onto someone to put them up for public ridicule in the town square?

My bro in law coined (I think) calling an action "mockitudinous" when someone does something that so egreiously invites mockery. "Dude, that is so mockitudinous." "In my mockitude, I hang my head in shame."

I like the term "mockers" though-- we were at a hockey game last night and about 99% of us present hung the mockers on the home team spontaneously and collectively by leaving when the third goal was scored on them in the last 10 minutes of play (final 0-3).

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM

I agree with Lynne the term definitely has the sense of making something bad happen and may have some root in old beliefs but no idea where the word come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:05 AM

found this
Seems not to be very old at all and most likely of Australian origin. Still none the wiser though.

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:42 AM

A bit like putting a spanner in the works.

Could it be something to do with being mannacled? Like handcuffs, so in the example given that would stop them continuing to do better.

The Oxford dictionary says that a mocker is a person who mocks. It gives associated phrases as "put the mockers on". It's derivation being described as Brit.informal. The meaning "put an end to or bring bad luck to".

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:47 AM

To mock is from old French which is mocquer which means deride. To mock is middle English and is from old French.

Brit.informal - Brit means regional distribution and informal means the level of informity.

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 12:56 PM

Hardi wondered if it's like setting the dogs on someone-- as he was musing, Jesus was put out in public with the tacit OK to set the mockers onto him shortly before crucifixion. The sense of that usage would be that the crowd was given the OK/encouragement to turn loose their mob mentaility in full, mockery. Mockery they'd been holding in.

If that is correct, "don't put the mockers on" would mean something like "it's not OK to mock yet and let's not incite mockery ourselves."

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

This site has a quote which puts it in an interesting light. It is the earliest in print quote, and is from an Australian source.

The Phrase Finder

The earliest record of use of the slang word mocker in print is in Con. Drew's Rogues and Ruses, 1922:

    "They'll ave to race without me to-morrow. I've got a mocker hung on me."

Having a mocker hung on you would maybe indicate a sign of some sort.

In Oz, the term is often used after someone has said something positive about someone else. E.g. if I, in my seemingly interminable quest for a permanent job over the last 10 years, was told by someone that I was the obvious choice for a job I had applied for, then I knew I wasn't going to get the job. They had put the mockers on me in the sense of having jinxed me. By saying something positive the opposite outcome would occur. That's why the term appears to be fairly common in sporting contexts. If someone says that an athlete or footy team is doing so well that they will probably win, then the speaker is told that they have put the mockers on the athlete or team.

So it's related to the concept of saying "break a leg" to someone in the theatre before a performance. The superstition is that if you wish them well then the opposite will happen.

World Wide Words says:

"It has been suggested that it is from the Romany words mokardi or mokodo for something tainted, or possibly from Yiddish make, a sore or scourge...... The Oxford dictionaries are sure it straightforwardly comes either from mock in the sense of deride, or mocker, meaning somebody who mocks."

If the mocker is hung on someone, as in the first reference in print to the term, then it is possible that it is similar to the label which was hung on or near someone placed in the stocks, as WYSIWYG suggested. So not the stocks themselves, but the label identifying the reason why they are in the stocks, and therefore an object of mockery.

I wonder if it is like "being mocked by fate". Shout out, "I am winning!" and fate steps in and says, "Oh no you're not!"

Anyway, it is a fairly common term in Oz.

Interesting thread!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: JennieG
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 07:27 PM

According to "A Dictionary of Australian Colloquialisms" by G.A. Wilkes, to put the mock or mockers on is to frustrate someone's plans; to place a hoodoo on someone, or destroy his/her luck. It is the same as to put the moz/mozz on someone. Mozzle means luck or bad luck and is apparently from the Hebrew word mazzal - luck.

One usage quoted is from the Bulletin magazine, 17 Dec 1898: "Mozzle is luck....good mozzle = good luck; kronk mozzle = bad luck."

I second Helen, it is an interesting thread!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Put the Mockers on Me ???
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 04:57 AM

Yes this is certainly in current usage and used as indicated

I used the very expression the other day whilst playing snooker (not that snooker is relevant) when someone said you are playing well!

Some very good derivations indicated

Ray