BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable

Subject: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 04:44 PM

I composed this letter today for a friend: -

"To: Citizens' Advice Bureau
        
Dear Sirs        Advice needed – contact impossible

How on earth am I supposed to contact you? I have been trying to two days non-stop.

I have made a complaint to the Employment Tribunal to the effect that I have not received the minimum wage. My employer admits that the Minimum Wage regulations apply both to employees and to other workers, but he denies that I was either.

Acas have said I should seek your advice, because this is a difficult area of law (and, incidentally, it is not mentioned on any of your advice lines) but you see and advise people only by appointment. But I have been telephoning for two days constantly without being able to get through on the phone to make an appointment. How can I get one?

1)        Your website says you do not offer a drop in service and that an appointment must be made.
2)        You do not answer the telephone, simply connect ALL calls to a set of recorded messages that are of no relevance.
3)        Your fax number is not answered by any fax machine.
4)        All emails to your email address are bounced with automated references to the above.

As a result it is quite simply impossible to make an appointment.

Is this deliberate?"

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:02 PM

They are a volunteer agency, I think. Has your friend considered contacting an office in another town?

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:27 PM

I contacted them years ago and they were very good then but from what you say it looks as though things have changed. It could be the particular one that you have been trying. Have you thought about turning up at the office to try and make the actual appointment? If it isn't a drop in service you still may be able to drop in to make an appointment. They will only have somebody there, who is qualified to discuss legal matters, at certain times.

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:07 PM

Has our (NON) socialist government Privatised CAB on the sly ??

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Nickhere
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:46 PM

I know only too well the frustration of those 'we're only trying to be helpful' automated phone reponses....! I heard the other day of a company (I won't mention which) whose automated message began: "Welcome to NNN. We are open 24 hours a day! For our opening times, press 1, for account enquiries, press 2....." I kid you not.
Now, when I get a call from some bank etc., I've never heard of offering me a loan etc., I can't help stringing them along for the laugh. It goes something like this:

"Hello, Mr.N, I'm so-and-so and I'm calling you from XYZ. How are you today?"

"Not too well actually. I've got a bit of a backache and a I think the onset of a flu, but I'll have to wait and see if I'll phone in sick yet"

"Oh, I'm sorry to hear that Mr.N, I know what it's like to be sick.."

"Yes, well enough about me anyway. How are you?"

And so on....

a bit annoying, I know, but I can't help it...it's the way these companies fob you off and hide behind the annonymity of the phone to pass you from pillar to post.

You don't say what country you are from, but regards your minimum wage problem etc., surely there is a legal minimum wage for all workers, even part-timers etc., If your governemnt has a department of labour or trade, they might be able to advise you more on this if Citizen's Advice is unable to help out. They probably have a booklet or a website.
Frequently though i find that you get lots of fine rhetoric about 'safeguarding the rights of employees' but when you gte down to the nuts and bolts, there are so many loopholes and escape clauses that you might as well throw the legislation in the bin. "Employers MUST pay the minimum wage (except if the employee is told they won't be paid the minimum wage in advance or the moon is in conjunction with Uranus..")

Good luck! I hope your friend gets their fair pay. You might want to check out www.labourstart.org - a very good trade union site that has launched many successful campaigns. Though it probably won't be able to offer a legal-advice service, they may be able to point you in the right direction. They also give excellent info on new legislation and laws that might affect your rights etc., well worth keeping an eye on.

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:23 PM

UK. Hence the involvement of ACAS, and the Employment Tribunal.

Tried 5 other CABs within 25 miles. Guess what? Allee samee.

Friend on dole, "drop in" = £5.50 round trip bus ride. He will try to "drop in" when he next has to get the ticket to go to the dole office to sign on.

No suitable trade union, he's an ex-con (it's NOT Jeff) and has been trying to get work since he got out. The people who shafted him were the "Support community" that ran the accommodation he went into when he got out. The legal issue is an interesting one. Websites with tick boxes do not come close to satisfactorily resolving the question

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: gnomad
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:36 AM

CAB was a volunteer organisation and, as in any such, quality of service was quite variable between branches. In [I believe] the 80s a number of paid workers came in, sometimes locally sponsored and often to deal with a particular class of query. The bureau was as effective campaigning and remedial service and widely respected. It was thus an thorn in the side of government, both regionally and nationally.

Being a "good thing" though, it could not be targeted for destruction, so it was smothered with love. The govt gave it money, gave it workers, publicized it and promoted the use of its services [see the Employment Tribunal's advice in the opening post] and of course effectively started to control and regulate it. The volunteers who brought the bureau a wide range of life skills, local contacts and knowledge, professional experience and especially dedication, have been sidelined and I understand that many have left.

A sad lesson in the piper-paying business.

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: GUEST,Frustrated
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 10:05 AM

I know it's not the CAB, but a similar example of "These things are sent to try us" (or perhaps designed to). I have a complaint about a dental crown (too big for the space, and significantly bigger than the one it was supposed to replace). The Dentist referred me to the "Conservation Department" at the Dental Hospital; the Consultant there said that to comment on the issue of Crown suitability was "not the concern of the Conservation Department". The Public Services Ombudsman states that, because the Conservation Department did not comment, then the P.S.O. "cannot process your complaint". It's the best Catch there is.

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 08:41 AM

I know - because we sold it them - they bought some expensive software to see if they were getting the responses they needed from their database/client/server/network infrastructure. This was all done by their PAID (some would say overpaid!) IT staff and decided upon by their PAID (same comment as IT) management. I think the volunteer advisers do a wonderful job but the management structure leaves a lot to be desired. Bit like the health service realy - The people on the ground are fantastic but the upper eschelons leave a lot to be desired! Good luck to your friend anyway, Richard.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 08:04 PM

I can confirm what Richard says.

My local CAB does have a drop in service as well as a by appointment one.

Goes like this:- Can't get through on phone even by devoting the first minety minutes of their stated opening hours, for five consecutive days, to continuous attempts at contact.
                  Go down to their offices thirty minutes before opening time, and queue ubtil they open. On arrival I see a printed sign in the glass door panel which says "We regret that we already have all the clients we can handle today. Please telephone for an appointment at a later date".


I decide to try what eanjay suggested, namely wait at the office to make an appointment in person. During the time I am outside the office (about 75 minutes) nobody enters or leaves. If they are doing any work at all, they must be teleporting the clients in.


I give up and go elsewhere.
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Citizens' Advice Bureau unavailable
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 03:00 AM

Oh, by the way, writing them a letter also gets no reply.